Beastmaster minus to what end?

[Petrakiss]

Hello,

At 10th level, a beastmaster gains a fourth animal companion, chosen from the list of animal companions available to a 1st-level druid. Treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 9 for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics (or of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels).

So for an example: A 20th druid level with a -9 = 11th, can select 10th level alternative companions and below. If I select say a "Snake, giant constrictor" it gets -9 for the purpose of what level of bonus statistics it gains. Here's what I want to know... its -9 right? not -18 ? Beastmaster "states" *or* of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels. So with that I have used it to select a 10th option animal and then just applied the -9 as it states.

The part were it says "Teat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 9 for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics" Is for when your selecting a 1st level companion "At 10th level, a beastmaster gains a fourth animal companion, chosen from the list of animal companions available to a 1st-level druid".

I need confirmation on this so its a lock down. Its just to help if it comes up down the track that someone isnt sure. I know its a -9 (for that example) but just in case the player needs more information (for some reason) he can turn to this.

[eggynack]

I think you're missing the point some. At 10th level of beastmaster, you acquire an animal companion that a druid of 10th level -9 would acquire. So, you get the animal companion that you would get as a first level druid, and it doesn't stack with druid levels. In other words, the class' capstone is basically a completely unadvanced riding dog. It's... not a good class.

[Gadora]

Druid won't stack with Beastmaster for the additional animal companions. That last one will only ever be a companion that is equal to a first level druid's. Yes, this is dumb. You might ask your DM if they agree that this is dumb, and, should they agree, if you can possibly have it changed.

[Petrakiss]

wait guys you know beastmaster does stack?

her beastmaster class levels stack with class levels from all other classes that grant an animal companion. For example, a 5th-level druid/2nd-level beastmaster would be treated as a 10th-level druid for the purpose of improving the statistics of her animal companion (and which alternative animal companions she could select). This is for the +3 (first animal beastmaster gets)

So for every extra animal it gets its based on druid level (as it stakes) -3 or -6 or what ever extra animal its up to.

[eggynack]

wait guys you know beastmaster does stack?

her beastmaster class levels stack with class levels from all other classes that grant an animal companion. For example, a 5th-level druid/2nd-level beastmaster would be treated as a 10th-level druid for the purpose of improving the statistics of her animal companion (and which alternative animal companions she could select)
That's the first animal companion ability. That ability is fine. The other ability, the one that grants extra companions beyond the first, does not stack.

[Petrakiss]

So as it states

Extra Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a beastmaster gains a second animal companion, chosen from the list of animal companions available to a 1st-level druid. Treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 3 for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics (or of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels).

so if i'm a druid5/beastmaster5 =10 then -3 =7th for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics (or of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels).

[Extra Anchovies]

I think you're missing the point some. At 10th level of beastmaster, you acquire an animal companion that a druid of 10th level -9 would acquire. So, you get the animal companion that you would get as a first level druid, and it doesn't stack with druid levels. In other words, the class' capstone is basically a completely unadvanced riding dog. It's... not a good class.

Beastmaster is another one of the many heavily frontloaded PrCs, but it can be an awesome dip in the right build. A single animal companion at level+3 is great if you're going into later PrCs that provide animal companion advancement, and is a big part of many a Supermount build where the horse (or dragon, or friendly druid mount) outshines the rider.

[eggynack]

So as it states

Extra Animal Companion (Ex): At 4th level, a beastmaster gains a second animal companion, chosen from the list of animal companions available to a 1st-level druid. Treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 3 for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics (or of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels).

so if i'm a druid5/beastmaster5 =10 then -3 =7th for the purpose of improving the animal companion's statistics (or of selecting an alternative companion at higher levels).
You treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is beastmaster - 3. It doesn't say you treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is beastmaster + druid - 3. Thus, as a druid 5/beastermaster 5, your 4th level companion would effectively be treated as that of a 2nd level druid.

Edit:
Beastmaster is another one of the many heavily frontloaded PrCs, but it can be an awesome dip in the right build. A single animal companion at level+3 is great if you're going into later PrCs that provide animal companion advancement, and is a big part of many a Supermount build where the horse (or dragon, or friendly druid mount) outshines the rider.
It can be reasonable on a not-druid, and I've warmed up to it a bit as the last level on a druid in E6, but that bonus isn't particularly worth it on a standard druid.

[Petrakiss]

That's the first animal companion ability. That ability is fine. The other ability, the one that grants extra companions beyond the first, does not stack.

Wait i'm kinda losing my cells here. (Not fuming towards you or anyone :D just fuming at whats going on) It says Treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 3 right!?! hence its druid level is (again example) druid5/beastmaster5 = 10 then - 3 = 7th. Beastmaster states from the start that it uses druid level as if it was, for the purpose of this. I really dont understand how were getting mixed up infomation?

[eggynack]

Wait i'm kinda losing my cells here. (Not fuming towards you or anyone :D just fuming at whats going on) It says Treat the beastmaster as a druid whose level is equal to the beastmaster's class level – 3 right!?! hence its druid level is (again example) druid5/beastmaster5 = 10 then - 3 = 7th. Beastmaster states from the start that it uses druid level as if it was, for the purpose of this. I really dont understand how were getting mixed up infomation?
Its druid level isn't derived from druid level at all. It's only derived from beastmaster level. It's derived from druid level in the first ability. We can just look at the stacking line, if that clears things up. The animal companion ability says, "If a beastmaster already has an animal companion from another class, her beastmaster class levels stack with class levels from all other classes that grant an animal companion." That's what makes it stack. The extra companion doesn't have that line.

[Petrakiss]

Wait sorry guys, ok I see so let me get this stright.. The first animal applys to what.. my druid companion? so it gets the +3. meaning I dont get my druid companion and a +3 beastmaster animal? its intergrated? so then the other animals are just... chocolate pooping usless?

[eggynack]

Wait sorry guys, ok I see so let me get this stright.. The first animal applys to what.. my druid companion? so it gets the +3. meaning I dont get my druid companion and a +3 beastmaster animal? its intergrated? so then the other animals are just... F***ing ****?
That about covers it, yes.

[Petrakiss]

Well thanks everyone for helping me clear things up. I apreciate in sticking around to further help me understand.

So with that... wtf.. I'm medium (in terms of knowing D&D 3.5) did D&D 3.5 take a damn dump on this class and say, hey heres a class that you wont even dip into because every animal is so - the poop up that you can just kill and eat each damn pet as a source of food and replenish every 24 hours...

so then wtf can i do.. I guess I just take 1 level of beast master so I can get my normal companion to be a +3 (then getting - to a chosen depending animal) ... gah ok I'll have to find ways to get more animals that are not sprinkle pooped ice-cream bad. I'll check back again sometime to see if what I find is correct.

Thank you everyone *hugs everyone for there truthfulness and then punches egg for breaking my dreams of a beast master theme...that is not what D&D is making it out to be.....then hugs egg and runs off XD*

[eggynack]

Well thanks everyone for helping me clear things up. I apreciate in sticking around to further help me understand.

So with that... wtf.. I'm medium (in terms of knowing D&D 3.5) did D&D 3.5 take a damn dump on this class and say, hey heres a class that you wont even dip into because every animal is so - the poop up that you can just kill and eat each damn pet as a source of food and replenish every 24 hours...

so then wtf can i do.. I guess I just take 1 level of beast master so I can get my normal companion to be a +3 (then getting - to a chosen depending animal) ... gah ok I'll have to find ways to get more animals that are not sprinkle pooped ice-cream bad. I'll check back again sometime to see if what I find is correct.

Thank you everyone *hugs everyone for there truthfulness and then punches egg for breaking my dreams of a beast master theme...that is not what D&D is making it out to be.....then hugs egg and runs off XD*
Yeah, frigging hate beastmaster. Doesn't even let you apply natural bond, also from complete adventurer to more than one companion, on the basis of the errata. You could pick up a wild cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), if you want an extra companion, and the aforementioned natural bond can do the same basic job as beastmaster for a much lower cost. Companion spellbond from the PHB II is very strong as well, and exalted companion from the book of exalted deeds allows you to apply vow of poverty to your animal companion, so that's neat. Also, half-orc substitution levels from races of destiny applies toughness on your animal companion for free, and the other abilities you get makes that better than it sounds. Long story short, there are ways to boost your animal companion that don't involve killing your build with beastmaster.

[torrasque666]

Junior DM of the group in question here. If I recall correctly, it was more along the lines that he wanted to have a lot of companions, not just one, and still have them be good.

[Sian]

read the last bit of Extra Animal Companion


Other class levels in classes that offer an animal companion don't stack for the purpose of determining the power of a beastmaster's additional animal companions, nor do they allow her to choose additional animal companions from the alternate lists.

Allways remember to read the whole instead of expecting it to work as it obviously should have done if you'd have any sense

[eggynack]

Junior DM of the group in question here. If I recall correctly, it was more along the lines that he wanted to have a lot of companions, not just one, and still have them be good.
Not especially possible, to my knowledge. Hence the other stuff. Wild cohort is a good first step, but it's not exactly getting to that full beastmaster feel.

Edit: Yeah, I always forget that beastmaster explicitly makes this not work. I'm always doing the whole, "There's nothing that says that they do stack, and such is the nature of RAW, despite possible other intent," deal. Weird how much that happens.

[Petrakiss]

Yeah, frigging hate beastmaster. Doesn't even let you apply natural bond, also from complete adventurer to more than one companion, on the basis of the errata. You could pick up a wild cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a), if you want an extra companion, and the aforementioned natural bond can do the same basic job as beastmaster for a much lower cost. Companion spellbond from the PHB II is very strong as well, and exalted companion from the book of exalted deeds allows you to apply vow of poverty to your animal companion, so that's neat. Also, half-orc substitution levels from races of destiny applies toughness on your animal companion for free, and the other abilities you get makes that better than it sounds. Long story short, there are ways to boost your animal companion that don't involve killing your build with beastmaster.


Hey Wild Cohort is 3.0 right? Cause i carnt find a 3.5 version of it

Also If you dont mind, can I make a 20th level character idea and get you to over look at it to see if its good. I since i'm medi in D&D 3.5 I want everything by the book so to speak and not homebrew. (once I know how to make solid non-homebrew characters I can then feel confident to try homebrewing)

[torrasque666]

Eggy hyperlinked it. It can be found in the archives of Wizards now.

Heres the not hyperlinked version: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a

[eggynack]

Also If you dont mind, can I make a 20th level character idea and get you to over look at it to see if its good. I since i'm medi in D&D 3.5 I want everything by the book so to speak and not homebrew. (once I know how to make solid non-homebrew characters I can then feel confident to try homebrewing)
Sounds like a fine thing. I can also send over my somewhat incomplete druid handbook, if that's a thing you seek. Covers most things, I think.

[ranagrande]

Beastmaster is amazing. It's one of my favorite prestige classes. You just have to recognize that it's only one level long.

[Petrakiss]

Sounds like a fine thing. I can also send over my somewhat incomplete druid handbook, if that's a thing you seek. Covers most things, I think.

Ok so My brain atm isnt working, (still shell shocked a bit lol) but wanted to ask: Does Totem Companion work of the beast heart adept class? since Totem comp are magical beasts and the beast heart adept works of magical beasts (also determines their bonus stats) ?

beloved-of-valarian: How stupid is this, "if the unicorn should die before its rider, the character may call another unicorn companion when she gains a new level in this class". I mean thats the stupidest thing i've seen so far, so what happens when you hit its max level of 10 and then for some reason it gets chopped off... you carnt get it anymore... *bangs the one that created this class concept against the wall*

Using self raising flower instead of flower to make pancakes was a good idea at the time.....

[Heliomance]

There's always the little discussed tactic of, y'know, asking your DM if they're willing to let all the companions stack with your Druid levels.

[Petrakiss]

There's always the little discussed tactic of, y'know, asking your DM if they're willing to let all the companions stack with your Druid levels.

I know >.< and I'm pretty sure he would, but I cant jump in every game and say, oh hey heres my character and get the same response from each gm. If I can go by the book then I can go to any game and say, heres my character :3 also I myself need to learn the core of D&D or else my homebrewing will go out of control... *grabs a shotgun* I swear I will find that guy that made that stupid beastmaster class and so help me! XD

[Troacctid]

You can make all of the Beastmaster's companions good if you take Share Soulmeld and a couple levels in meldshaping classes, but that will require that all of them stay within 5 feet of you. Still, it won't matter that the hawk on your shoulder is wimpy when it's dealing 3d6 acid damage a round with a ranged touch attack.

[Blackhawk748]

I played a Beastheart Adept once (ya not the same thing but a similar problem) and my DM let me take Natural Bond once for each companion. Why? because he agreed that the last companion i got would have been friggin useless. Beastmaster suffers from a similar problem, and from what ive seem most DMs have no problem allowing it to stack or letting you take Natural Bond for each one.

[eggynack]

Ok so My brain atm isnt working, (still shell shocked a bit lol) but wanted to ask: Does Totem Companion work of the beast heart adept class? since Totem comp are magical beasts and the beast heart adept works of magical beasts (also determines their bonus stats) ?
I don't see why it would. Doesn't look like the class interacts with old companions at all, and the creature being a magical beast isn't really stated as some sort of barrier to entry for that.

[Nihilarian]

You shouod be able to advance Monstrous Companions through the use of Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster, though.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ironically (extremely ironically), arcane casters get better options for creature menagerie in 3.5, thanks to Extra Familiar and Improved Familiar, combined with Obtain Familiar when necessary.

Now, you could maybe do Arcane Hierophant. I believe the AH takes away your familiar and grants Companion Familiar, but I don't think it says you can't get another familiar later (in theory with Obtain Familiar). In fact, you might not even need Obtain Familiar, but then you wouldn't benefit from the arcane class stacking that that feat allows for purposes of the Familiar class feature.

Unfortunately, most builds can't handle AH on a lark, since typical builds need it to be considered a goal from quite early on.

[Fax Celestis]

Junior DM of the group in question here. If I recall correctly, it was more along the lines that he wanted to have a lot of companions, not just one, and still have them be good.

Then you want Beast Heart Adept out of Dungeonscape.

[Petrakiss]

Can a companion learn Martial Study?

[Troacctid]

That would depend on whether racial hit dice count toward initiator level. I think they do, but I'm AFB so I'm not sure.

[Invader]

Ironically (extremely ironically), arcane casters get better options for creature menagerie in 3.5, thanks to Extra Familiar and Improved Familiar, combined with Obtain Familiar when necessary.

Now, you could maybe do Arcane Hierophant. I believe the AH takes away your familiar and grants Companion Familiar, but I don't think it says you can't get another familiar later (in theory with Obtain Familiar). In fact, you might not even need Obtain Familiar, but then you wouldn't benefit from the arcane class stacking that that feat allows for purposes of the Familiar class feature.

Unfortunately, most builds can't handle AH on a lark, since typical builds need it to be considered a goal from quite early on.

If you take improved familiar would it work for all the familiars you have or would you have to take it separately for each one?

[Phelix-Mu]

If you take improved familiar would it work for all the familiars you have or would you have to take it separately for each one?

Pretty sure Improved Familiar probably uses "familiar" singular, which likely prevents one from generalizing it to all familiars. The Extra Familiar thing was from Dragon Magz, so no reason to think the designers would have anticipated the possibility of more than one familiar in Improved Familiar.

Comes down to the exact wording, though. Might be worth a look.

[Petrakiss]

So beast heart adept levels are 10 max....... which would mean the creatures we be... they would rely on there naked stats alot more which is fine until you come across the limitations of feats it gains and the high levels will ...

So still the best option for high level is to get a class that can still go up and push the companions up too..

The only companion that is going to do that is your first one. if you take 1 level of beast master for the +3 then back to druid (since the fudging this is worthless to cont in BM) and take a feat of natural bond which is a +3 you can wipe of -6 from the 7th -9th level companions or go one step to the 10th - 12th companions and get a -3 end total. You will lose 1 feat progress were as the 7th-9th level ones you can get the full amount.

which once you choose which one you what from those options you then take 1 class of Planar Ranger to transform it into a celestial or fiendish depending on your alignment.

I thought about totem companion but the - to the list is just awful. Only reason is to take Unicorn were beast heart adept dosnt have (the cockatrice and other arnt worth it).

Since the extra companions from beast master and beast heart adept work of the class level, ontop adding the damn negative - to yet another - negative chosen list.. you relying on almost true naked companions which if not used as a mount, are just things to throw at and watch them pop for 20th level games..

Investing alot of money on magical items wont help either, I mean sure you can get them to charge after what ever they tried to do they pop, you pick up the gear and wait 24 hours (uninterrupted) and go again...

From what i'm trying to do now is come up with the (1 companion) or (2 companion but the 2nd one needs to be a good naked state or else its just a waste of time).

I'll keep working on it but.. ffs I still dont understand how someone that made these classes didnt even remotely think about there effectiveness.

[Petrakiss]

I give up.

I'm just to burnt out and days spent on this is just frustrating me. To make an actual beast master theme (1 focus monster or the gang theme) I would need to homebrew which is ofc easy to do. Dont get me wrong I've just given up on using the "core" or what it comes with for the books. I say F**** the guy who created it and with that said I'm going to create a different class. Next Campaign I'll have my homebrew by then.


If anyone wants to have a crack at it then by all means feel free.

[torrasque666]

I'm more than willing to help you out in that department. Mind that we might have to make tweaks here and there to fine tune it.

[Petrakiss]

Ok so My homebrew type of beast master would be a Purple worm and a bard

The idea of this concept is the bard will need to rely on her voice to command the worm. Singing different "song commands" (in a sense i'm merging tricks and bard music as one).
The bard will be ofc a bard-variant class I guess which means it will lose the ability to use magic but gain Song abilities. level 1-20 But
The worm bonus stats I will have to fix around (and no i'm not adding **** negative values to it.)
I will make it probably level 4 you are able to obtain a worm though it will be something like this

* baby worm at level 4
- every 4 levels it grows 1 size
-16 level its full size Gargantuan (campaigns beyond level 20 it will go the max size, but atm focusing on 1-20 build)

*24 hour uninterrupted singing to lure baby worm
-upon arrival must do a perform check (sing) + Handle animal Check (combined total, also the difficulty will rise when you are calling back and even more getting a new one. Will explain later on)
-Acquire baby worm is now an unstable companion. This will be reasons like (1) must sing at night to put it to sleep. Perform checks will come into play depending on environment and activity. Complete success sing check with almost 0 activity. Sing check when there are little activities in the area and environment (minor hazordes places). Sing + handle check for medium activities and environment (close to town or similar). No chance on high activity and environment. The difficulty checks will decrease for every 4 levels when it matures each time, towards when its full size it will not be prone to panic/frenzy/etc except if attacked (must be of med/great damage for it to care)

*Food
-Food intake will vary:
-baby = cow
-child = 2-3 cow's
-teen = 4-6 cow's
-adult = 1 herd of cows

Of course this is a raft draft, but basically if its hungry it will go out and find food (this amy lead to unknown targets if your next to or in town) if its starving it will frenzy and eat anything near it (part from you but your allies might not like that idea) brink of death hunger will target anything eatable (2-5mins rounds or some sort of length, after that time it will consider you as food).
You must perform sing +handle (high checks) if you succ it will frenzy off somewhere until it has eaten *gluttonous more food* then it will be angry at you in which you will have to do some sort of checka gain to acquire it again.

*Bard Singing
-bard-variant does not gain access to spells but gains unique songs of which it will gain access to command types (new commands per level or something a rather)
- These commands are in ways like tricks but through song commands (worm does not learn tricks)
- Each time you issue a song command type you will perform check to see whether it will listen or act on its own. (this will be in a form of a chart of what random things it will do. If in combat if it dosnt listen to you it will either target a random enemy or if attack by something, it will charge at it.)
- Random acts will very on top of its decision such as: Being hit really hard by something, it will charge + frenzy which though might be bad for the enemy, its worse for you as it will take you an extra round or maybe a full round action to gain back control.
- When ever purple worm gets towards a certain % of hp it will escape or Full rage depending on dice roll (50/50)
-escape = will tunnel if can away. You can either stay on and perform heal stimulating song command (Heal) or jump off but take fall damage, as well as 24-48 hours of recalling. (its best to stay with it as even though you are out of combat for that encounter, you will be able to come back afterwards with your companion.



Bard-variant (will be called something else) will have a +cha vaule and a -str and -wis for when you creating character.
Bonus stat chart for worm will reflex of the worm's stats (str/con) and apart from HD and natural armor, I will add some associating ability's for a purple worm in the special category since it has no tricks category.

Bard will have no negative or ride checks for worm (unless worm frenzying *like a wild bull*)
Bard will unable to mount anything else since class dedicates in the arts of worm riding.
Bard is able to use worm as a shield if targeted (only when its an adult) similar to the mount feat that allows you to negate an attack made to your mount.

*YOU MUST BE ALWAYS BE NATURAL ALIGNMENT! Going to good or evil will result on % chance of failing songs as you are not as one with your worm.
In addition your worm will be effected by your alignment songs:
When moved to good = % fail results in random worm acts involving non violent commands (random movements) (high chance it escapes)
When moved to evil = % fail results in random worm acts involving Violent commands (targets are anyone/anything) (high chance it escapes)

If for some reason it dies before it can escape or it ran off because you were an ass to it you will have to acquire a new one which will depend on your level

*baby =24hrs uninterrupted
- child = 24hrs uninterrupted (result in starvation from you)
-teen = 48hrs uninterrupted (results in starvation and negative effects on you)
- adult = 48hrs uninterrupted (results in starvation, negative effects and lose of %90 voice commands. Only basic song command controls until 24hr have gone past)

Something like it but again it will be changed.


Ok so this is a rough idea that I will need to fix and polish up but to me this is *one* type of many of being beast master/variant.

[Invader]

Ok so My homebrew type of beast master would be a Purple worm and a bard

The idea of this concept is the bard will need to rely on her voice to command the worm. Singing different "song commands" (in a sense i'm merging tricks and bard music as one).
The bard will be ofc a bard-variant class I guess which means it will lose the ability to use magic but gain Song abilities. level 1-20 But
The worm bonus stats I will have to fix around (and no i'm not adding **** negative values to it.)
I will make it probably level 4 you are able to obtain a worm though it will be something like this

* baby worm at level 4
- every 4 levels it grows 1 size
-16 level its full size Gargantuan (campaigns beyond level 20 it will go the max size, but atm focusing on 1-20 build)

*24 hour uninterrupted singing to lure baby worm
-upon arrival must do a perform check (sing) + Handle animal Check (combined total, also the difficulty will rise when you are calling back and even more getting a new one. Will explain later on)
-Acquire baby worm is now an unstable companion. This will be reasons like (1) must sing at night to put it to sleep. Perform checks will come into play depending on environment and activity. Complete success sing check with almost 0 activity. Sing check when there are little activities in the area and environment (minor hazordes places). Sing + handle check for medium activities and environment (close to town or similar). No chance on high activity and environment. The difficulty checks will decrease for every 4 levels when it matures each time, towards when its full size it will not be prone to panic/frenzy/etc except if attacked (must be of med/great damage for it to care)

*Food
-Food intake will vary:
-baby = cow
-child = 2-3 cow's
-teen = 4-6 cow's
-adult = 1 herd of cows

Of course this is a raft draft, but basically if its hungry it will go out and find food (this amy lead to unknown targets if your next to or in town) if its starving it will frenzy and eat anything near it (part from you but your allies might not like that idea) brink of death hunger will target anything eatable (2-5mins rounds or some sort of length, after that time it will consider you as food).
You must perform sing +handle (high checks) if you succ it will frenzy off somewhere until it has eaten *gluttonous more food* then it will be angry at you in which you will have to do some sort of checka gain to acquire it again.

*Bard Singing
-bard-variant does not gain access to spells but gains unique songs of which it will gain access to command types (new commands per level or something a rather)
- These commands are in ways like tricks but through song commands (worm does not learn tricks)
- Each time you issue a song command type you will perform check to see whether it will listen or act on its own. (this will be in a form of a chart of what random things it will do. If in combat if it dosnt listen to you it will either target a random enemy or if attack by something, it will charge at it.)
- Random acts will very on top of its decision such as: Being hit really hard by something, it will charge + frenzy which though might be bad for the enemy, its worse for you as it will take you an extra round or maybe a full round action to gain back control.
- When ever purple worm gets towards a certain % of hp it will escape or Full rage depending on dice roll (50/50)
-escape = will tunnel if can away. You can either stay on and perform heal stimulating song command (Heal) or jump off but take fall damage, as well as 24-48 hours of recalling. (its best to stay with it as even though you are out of combat for that encounter, you will be able to come back afterwards with your companion.



Bard-variant (will be called something else) will have a +cha vaule and a -str and -wis for when you creating character.
Bonus stat chart for worm will reflex of the worm's stats (str/con) and apart from HD and natural armor, I will add some associating ability's for a purple worm in the special category since it has no tricks category.

Bard will have no negative or ride checks for worm (unless worm frenzying *like a wild bull*)
Bard will unable to mount anything else since class dedicates in the arts of worm riding.
Bard is able to use worm as a shield if targeted (only when its an adult) similar to the mount feat that allows you to negate an attack made to your mount.

*YOU MUST BE ALWAYS BE NATURAL ALIGNMENT! Going to good or evil will result on % chance of failing songs as you are not as one with your worm.
In addition your worm will be effected by your alignment songs:
When moved to good = % fail results in random worm acts involving non violent commands (random movements) (high chance it escapes)
When moved to evil = % fail results in random worm acts involving Violent commands (targets are anyone/anything) (high chance it escapes)

If for some reason it dies before it can escape or it ran off because you were an ass to it you will have to acquire a new one which will depend on your level

*baby =24hrs uninterrupted
- child = 24hrs uninterrupted (result in starvation from you)
-teen = 48hrs uninterrupted (results in starvation and negative effects on you)
- adult = 48hrs uninterrupted (results in starvation, negative effects and lose of %90 voice commands. Only basic song command controls until 24hr have gone past)

Something like it but again it will be changed.


Ok so this is a rough idea that I will need to fix and polish up but to me this is *one* type of many of being beast master/variant.

This seems like this specifically set up for a bard which is fine but bards don't get handle animal. This of course is also fine but it's always been my opinion that designing something for a specific class but then forcing that class to go outside its core abilities to get the prereqs for something isn't good design. Perhaps knowledge arcana, nature, etc. depending on the creature type?

[Petrakiss]

This seems like this specifically set up for a bard which is fine but bards don't get handle animal. This of course is also fine but it's always been my opinion that designing something for a specific class but then forcing that class to go outside its core abilities to get the prereqs for something isn't good design. Perhaps knowledge arcana, nature, etc. depending on the creature type?

Yea That would do, Perform check (sing) and a knowledge check of some type associate with purple worm (nature,beast, or history, I'll have a look and see)

[Petrakiss]

Also why don't bards get animal handle? its a skill? if not I can always take the able learner feat. (12:22am here so I will check your message tomorrow, good night ^_^)

[Invader]

Also why don't bards get animal handle? its a skill? if not I can always take the able learner feat. (12:22am here so I will check your message tomorrow, good night ^_^)

Even savage bards don't get it which is even more confusing when they add calm animal and summon natures ally on their spell list and it fits thematically and mechanically.

[Phelix-Mu]

Wasn't there a bard feat called Greensinger? I'd probably just modify that to give thematic effects that work on animals. There were a couple kits along these lines in 2e, and I have the feeling that one of them got updated to 3e somewhere, but I have the feeling not 3.5.

[Petrakiss]

Even savage bards don't get it which is even more confusing when they add calm animal and summon natures ally on their spell list and it fits thematically and mechanically.

Well since this is homebrewing I'll create a bard-variant to have the skill handle animal, As i said this isnt something that will remotely be a problem anyways to a gm unless his holding the D&D book as a bible. If for some reason on top the gm or player still wont allow it (its a homebrew but ok what ever) I'll simple put it as using mainly perform skill (sing) checks and change a few other things.

[Jacob.Tyr]

The 3.0 book Master of the Wild might be of interest to you. The tamer of beasts can have up to twice his class levels in HD of animals bonded to him, though no animal may take up more than his HD. They also get a boost to INT, and with this HD advancement, you can make them pretty useful via feats.

Something like Druid 5, beast master 1, Tamer of Beasts 10, Druid 4 would be fairly animal focused.

Your animal companion would count as though you were 13, toss on natural bond to get it to 16, and you'd have another 38 HD split between animal "friends" that are beefed up via tamer of beasts as well. It is a 3/10 PrC, though.

I think there are some others in there that might be worth taking a look at as well (Animal Lord?). I know there was a PrC somewhere that I can't find anymore that was similar to beastmaster, except it didn't suck. It had some shepherd fluff going on or something, and had a religious/setting specific requirement. Can't find it, though.

[Petrakiss]

Wasn't there a bard feat called Greensinger? I'd probably just modify that to give thematic effects that work on animals. There were a couple kits along these lines in 2e, and I have the feeling that one of them got updated to 3e somewhere, but I have the feeling not 3.5.

being 3.5 greensinger feat isnt , well more towards summon. But since this class based around focusing on 1 companion a.k.a Purple Worm.


Homebrewing is the easiest thing, as long as your not braking the game towards god hood or to take big shortcuts to what you desire. Changing things to suit the class but keeping the fairness balanced (adding allowence skill to handle animal for homebrew bard-varant isnt going to destroy the game in any stupid sense, it will only effect hose that As I said hold the D&D book as a bible and can not acknowledge something like that.)

The game that i'm in on tuesday (wed for me) I will put this class to effect. I will post my class here (were level 10) later on the day.

[Petrakiss]

The 3.0 book Master of the Wild might be of interest to you. The tamer of beasts can have up to twice his class levels in HD of animals bonded to him, though no animal may take up more than his HD. They also get a boost to INT, and with this HD advancement, you can make them pretty useful via feats.

Something like Druid 5, beast master 1, Tamer of Beasts 10, Druid 4 would be fairly animal focused.

Your animal companion would count as though you were 13, toss on natural bond to get it to 16, and you'd have another 38 HD split between animal "friends" that are beefed up via tamer of beasts as well. It is a 3/10 PrC, though.

I think there are some others in there that might be worth taking a look at as well (Animal Lord?). I know there was a PrC somewhere that I can't find anymore that was similar to beastmaster, except it didn't suck. It had some shepherd fluff going on or something, and had a religious/setting specific requirement. Can't find it, though.

Yea I have checked out that book, and still the problem lies with them being useless or 1-2rounds live before they pop. The only thing I was considering from tamer was to use it as a platform off beastmaster the platforming to beast heart, since they become they turn magical beasts once there int is high enough (also take in mind this is 1 type of try experiment I have try alot others)

[bekeleven]

The 3.0 book Master of the Wild might be of interest to you. The tamer of beasts can have up to twice his class levels in HD of animals bonded to him, though no animal may take up more than his HD. They also get a boost to INT, and with this HD advancement, you can make them pretty useful via feats.

Something like Druid 5, beast master 1, Tamer of Beasts 10, Druid 4 would be fairly animal focused.

Your animal companion would count as though you were 13, toss on natural bond to get it to 16, and you'd have another 38 HD split between animal "friends" that are beefed up via tamer of beasts as well. It is a 3/10 PrC, though.

I think there are some others in there that might be worth taking a look at as well (Animal Lord?). I know there was a PrC somewhere that I can't find anymore that was similar to beastmaster, except it didn't suck. It had some shepherd fluff going on or something, and had a religious/setting specific requirement. Can't find it, though.

Mixing 3.0 and 3.5 companion classes is bad juju due to the fact that companions were 100% overhauled between editions.

In 3.0, all animal companions worked like this: You can have your druid level in animal companions. None advance, ever. So basically Tamer of Beasts was giving a 2:1 companion progression from stock druid.

In 3.5, a class that gives 2:1 progression would just read "Each level in this class counts as 2 druid levels for purpose of animal companion." It would never grant more than 1 because that's not the stock assumption of 3.5 companions.

You could argue that they would update it to grant more than 1, but since there's no official update, you'd pretty much be homebrewing something and including the line inspired by true classes on the cover.

[eggynack]

Thinking about it more, you could always try running initiate of nature from player's guide to faerun. Lets you rebuke animals and plants, thus granting a pool of said creatures. Not bad if a large quantity of reasonable animal friends is your aim, especially because it has a relatively low cost to a given build. Run that alongside a standard animal companion and a wild cohort, and you can vaguely approximate the feel of beastmaster without sacrificing magic and all other forms of usability.

[torrasque666]

Sadly our table doesn't really allow setting specifics outside of Eberron.

Then again.... our DM trusts me inherently(benefit of being to only one in the group to have been playing with him for a year) when it comes to the character creation limitations. If we were to switch to a "on a case-by-case basis" stance for non-eberron setting specific stuff.... Considering we'll allow homebrew/pathfinder material on a CBC basis, only seems right...


we might be able to make it work.

[eggynack]

Then again.... our DM trusts me inherently(benefit of being to only one in the group to have been playing with him for a year) when it comes to the character creation limitations. If we were to switch to a "on a case-by-case basis" stance for non-eberron setting specific stuff.... Considering we'll allow homebrew/pathfinder material on a CBC basis, only seems right...


we might be able to make it work.
Hope it does. Hadn't really figured initiate of nature as a beastmaster replacer, but I put it on computer-paper, and it makes a lot of sense. As for power level concerns, the feat itself isn't really powerful, but the character that takes it will be, because the character that takes it will presumably be a druid. Weird situation, actually, because the feat that takes a character from beastmaster to full leveled druid might be the most powerful feat in existence. Probably not the best way to think about things though, especially as the alternate character will presumably not be a beastmaster.