Fun with grappling

[Doorhandle]

So I've looked at the feats and the grappling rules and i have to say, i'm excited. A few thought I had:

*Barbarians would be crazy good grapples, between rage bonus and their final class feature.
*Monks would be a nice second, what with the nice, if redundant, tavern brawler feat.
*Move to zero means you can't fly, right? What happens if you succeed on a grapple in midair?
* You don;t need to spend an action to maintain a grapple. Does that mean you can grapple everyone that you can reach and keeps failing their saves? Because that would be hilarious.
*Strength rouges as an option? The only class features of their that synergies with grappler is sneak attack though, and they can still get advantage quite simply...
*Is grappling one/turn only? It says it replaces an attack, but that doesn't nessiarliy mean I can replace all my attacks with grapple...
* Still no rules for suplexes. Bah.

What are your thoughts/answers.

[IcemanJRC]

http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4142801

A handy dandy guide for all your grappling needs. Surprise Shaymalan style plot twist, Bards are actually super good at it.

[Person_Man]

Grapple and Shove can be used in place of any attack, and are resolved by Athletics vs Athletics or Acrobatics Skill checks.

So you want things that grant you more attacks - Extra Attack, Action Surge, Wild Shape, Flurry, Tavern Brawler, etc.

And you want anything that improves your Athletics check - Expertise, Rage, Peerless Skills, Grappler Feat, Cutting Words spell, Find Familiar and/or Conjure spells (to use the Help action).

The exact combination of what you use will vary according to your build. But its important to note that any Strength based build is going to be MADish, because all builds need/want Dexterity (Initiative, common Save, Stealth, possibly AC) and Constitution (hit points, slightly less common Save), and probably Wisdom (Perception, slightly less common but Save but if you fail you usually are knocked out of combat).

So I would personally go with strait Moon Druid 20. Wildshape fixes the MAD problem, and you can always Conjure allies to Help. Its also tempting to take 1 level dip into Rogue for Expertise or 1 level of Barbarian for Rage. But Sneak Attack can't be used in Wildshape Form (as it requires a ranged or finesse weapon), and Rage is only two times per day, so they may not be worth it in the long run.

[IcemanJRC]

I'd like to think Expertise is ALWAYS worth it, advantage on that thing you do literally all the time forever seems like a powerful ability when you're only trading a one level dip. Also, if you're looking to do the cool stuff, Action Surge is usually a pretty big deal(maneuvers aren't half bad either) so Fighter is tempting. The easiest build is probably just Moon 20, but base Fighter flavored with some Rogue, Barbarian, Bard, and/or Wizard depending on your goal seems better. Spells are really good at punishing other casters and single targets, also Enlarge is really good early/midlevel(Grappler has an issue in that they didn't update the size part during the playtest so it refrences a rule that doesn't exist anymore, your DM will probably play it RAI and then Enlarge is less important.) And Barb is top notch tank and rage is gravy.

[Easy_Lee]

Assuming grappling works within reach, and doesn't require an action to maintain, does that mean a barbarian - rogue with a polearm could hold down a theorestically infinite number of creatures 10' away, all unable to reach him or move, and take 10 on his athletics check indefinitely?

[IcemanJRC]

Grappling requires a free hand, so they couldn't use a polearm. As far as the rest of that goes, if you decided a whip was appropriate, I don't know. My inclination is no.

[Doorhandle]

Grapple and Shove can be used in place of any attack, and are resolved by Athletics vs Athletics or Acrobatics Skill checks.

So you want things that grant you more attacks - Extra Attack, Action Surge, Wild Shape, Flurry, Tavern Brawler, etc.

And you want anything that improves your Athletics check - Expertise, Rage, Peerless Skills, Grappler Feat, Cutting Words spell, Find Familiar and/or Conjure spells (to use the Help action).

The exact combination of what you use will vary according to your build. But its important to note that any Strength based build is going to be MADish, because all builds need/want Dexterity (Initiative, common Save, Stealth, possibly AC) and Constitution (hit points, slightly less common Save), and probably Wisdom (Perception, slightly less common but Save but if you fail you usually are knocked out of combat).

So I would personally go with strait Moon Druid 20. Wildshape fixes the MAD problem, and you can always Conjure allies to Help. Its also tempting to take 1 level dip into Rogue for Expertise or 1 level of Barbarian for Rage. But Sneak Attack can't be used in Wildshape Form (as it requires a ranged or finesse weapon), and Rage is only two times per day, so they may not be worth it in the long run.

Okay, but you can't, say, replace all your attacks with grapple actions.

Also, I forgot the rouge's ridiculous skill bonuses would apply to a grapple. Shame they don't have more attacks though.

[IcemanJRC]

Okay, but you can't, say, replace all your attacks with grapple actions.

Also, I forgot the rouge's ridiculous skill bonuses would apply to a grapple. Shame they don't have more attacks though.

No, you can. If for some reason you want to make a grapple attempt with all three-four-five of your attacks, that's totally okay. If you succeed on the first two, then you're out of luck though, because you are out of free hands. Unless you let go, then you can try again. Totes legit dude.

[Hytheter]

No, you can. If for some reason you want to make a grapple attempt with all three-four-five of your attacks, that's totally okay. If you succeed on the first two, then you're out of luck though, because you are out of free hands. Unless you let go, then you can try again. Totes legit dude.

Unless you have more hands.

I really want to throw a four-armed grappler at a party now...

[Naanomi]

Lore Bard has expertise, can learn Enlarge, and may be able to sing up their skill level/insult down their skill level. Wanting only for more attacks, they are the champions of the grapple

[unwise]

No, you can. If for some reason you want to make a grapple attempt with all three-four-five of your attacks, that's totally okay. If you succeed on the first two, then you're out of luck though, because you are out of free hands. Unless you let go, then you can try again. Totes legit dude.

This actually came up in a game for me recently, my friend plays a grappler. The Tavern Brawler, Grappler, Barbarian grabbed two guys. The next turn he started using them as improvised weapons against each other, coconuting their skulls together Three Stooges Style. When one died, he grabbed another passing villian to continue the disturbing spectacle.

Just in the one game, his achievements included:

- Beating one guy unconscious using another guys head.
- Beat a guy to death with his wife's severed head. (They were both really bad people, but still...)
- Grappling a guy and making a strength check (with advantage thanks to rage) to throw him off a cliff
- Pinning a guy to the ground, grappling his arm and saying "Stop hitting yourself" using the victims fist to punch him into unconsciousness. It took a while.
- Grabbing a really tough guy and leaping off a cliff with him, assuming that the wizard would cast feather fall on him. The wizard did not know the spell. He survived thanks to having resistance to bludgeoning. The victim did not. The DM said the bad guy was not meant to be beatable and was going to be a recurring villain.

Tavern Brawler lets you grapple if you strike with an improvised weapon. My grappler character in another game uses a meathook in his grappling hand, it explains why he gets the grapple when he strikes for damage. It is cool, if disturbing, imagery picturing that guy twirling foes around. He does not have a free hand as such, but so far it has not led to a mechanical advantage.