Why are Rings so powerful? (according to the writers)

[saxavarius]

The Forge Ring feat isn't available till CL 12. WHY? looking at the rings in MIC and other books I've never been truly impressed with what any of them do. I just don't get why rings are their own special little subset of crappy items (barring custom rings) instead of being wondrous. Anyone have any insight as to why or is this just a case of the design team going "HOLY CRAP YOU CAN HAVE TWO RINGS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME. HAX!!!!"

[Snowbluff]

Yuo should have some Ringswords reforged into gaunlets or something... and Poison Rings... x14 rings...

[Divide by Zero]

Because Lord of the Rings.

[Rubik]

Yuo should have some Ringswords reforged into gaunlets or something... and Poison Rings... x14 rings...One ring per ring-finger, one ring per gauntlet, one ring per elbow, one ring for a held weapon, one ring for shield spikes, one ring for the shield itself, one ring for armor spikes, one ring per boot , one ring per knee, at least one ring for a braid blade, one ring for a tail club/scythe.

That's a lot of rings, especially with two warforged mighty arms grafts on a dracotaur or something.

[Snowbluff]

One ring per ring-finger, one ring per gauntlet, one ring per elbow, one ring for a held weapon, one ring for shield spikes, one ring for the shield itself, one ring for armor spikes, one ring per boot , one ring per knee, at least one ring for a braid blade, one ring for a tail club/scythe.

That's a lot of rings, especially with two warforged mighty arms grafts on a dracotaur or something.
I think you start running out of cost-effective tings for you WBL. The good news is that all of those can be Spellblades, too.

[Fax Celestis]

Because Lord of the Rings.
Basically this.

[Rubik]

I think you start running out of cost-effective tings for you WBL. The good news is that all of those can be Spellblades, too.You can always turn your poison rings into spellblades for spell immunities.

And if you forego the shield rings, you could always get yourself an elvencraft longbow with three rings.

And if you're a warforged, make your (Extra) slam attack(s) into ringblades for extra rings.

[Jeraa]

The Forge Ring feat isn't available till CL 12. WHY? looking at the rings in MIC and other books I've never been truly impressed with what any of them do. I just don't get why rings are their own special little subset of crappy items (barring custom rings) instead of being wondrous. Anyone have any insight as to why or is this just a case of the design team going "HOLY CRAP YOU CAN HAVE TWO RINGS WORKING AT THE SAME TIME. HAX!!!!"

Basically, the designers are idiots. There is no reason for Forge Ring to require caster level 12 to take. Craft Wondrous Item can do everything Forge Ring can do, and it does it 9 levels sooner (caster level 3rd).

[afroakuma]

Doesn't look like they spelled it out, but it looks like, judging from the table, rings ignore body slot affinities and can just be used as an all-purpose slot without hitting the "no space limitation" cost penalty. Of course, this is basically conjecture... personally I side with the posters above saying it's just LotR-predicated lack of thought on their part.

[jedipotter]

Yup, a lot of the reason goes to The One Ring.


Though rings are also the smallest magic items. They are easy to hide and carry around, unlike say a rod, staff or cloak.

[Gemini476]

Doesn't look like they spelled it out, but it looks like, judging from the table, rings ignore body slot affinities and can just be used as an all-purpose slot without hitting the "no space limitation" cost penalty. Of course, this is basically conjecture... personally I side with the posters above saying it's just LotR-predicated lack of thought on their part.

I'm pretty sure that they snuck in a two-ring limit somewhere. For some reason. One on each hand. (If you have more than two hands, it's still just two. If you have less than two hands, put both on one.)

There's even a separate magic item (or artifact, perhaps?) which is a hand on a necklace that lets you wear another ring.

[Milo v3]

I'm pretty sure that they snuck in a two-ring limit somewhere. For some reason. One on each hand. (If you have more than two hands, it's still just two. If you have less than two hands, put both on one.)

There's even a separate magic item (or artifact, perhaps?) which is a hand on a necklace that lets you wear another ring.
He's referring how it is more expensive to make a destruction based magic item in the amulet slot than it is to have it as a gauntlet. Not that you can have an infinite number of rings.

[Venger]

There's even a separate magic item (or artifact, perhaps?) which is a hand on a necklace that lets you wear another ring.

hand of glory. standard wondrous item. 8k.

"extra ring" is also an epic feat due to how badly the writers overestimated the power of rings.

[Extra Anchovies]

hand of glory. standard wondrous item. 8k.

"extra ring" is also an epic feat due to how badly the writers overestimated the power of rings.

But... but one of them gives you feather fall at will! That's super powerful, right?

[Venger]

But... but one of them gives you feather fall at will! That's super powerful, right?

>at will

1/round, you mean. :smalltongue:

[Extra Anchovies]

>at will

1/round, you mean. :smalltongue:


This ring is crafted with a feather pattern all around its edge. It acts exactly like a feather fall spell, activated immediately if the wearer falls more than 5 feet.Whenever the wearer falls more than five feet! That means they don't take falling damage. And it costs only 2200 GP! This is so powerful, they couldn't not restrict us to two rings at a time!

[Snowbluff]

>at will

1/round, you mean. :smalltongue:

At-Will is accurate from the gameplay perspective.

[squiggit]

Extra Ring is an important feat for epic aristocrats

[Fax Celestis]

hand of glory. standard wondrous item. 8k.

"extra ring" is also an epic feat due to how badly the writers overestimated the power of rings.

Which they went back on with the ecl 12 Extra Rings feat in ECS, which gives you two extra ring slots but is practically artificer only.

[Venger]

Which they went back on with the ecl 12 Extra Rings feat in ECS, which gives you two extra ring slots but is practically artificer only.

only because no one actually takes forge ring. theoretically, anyone can take it.

[Red Fel]

In brightest day, in blackest night,
No broken rule shall escape my sight.

Because Sauron's adorable trinket is not the only reason rings are held in unjustified esteem.

[Twilightwyrm]

Well there are a few very good rings that were largely unique to the rings section. X-Ray, Sustenance (though this is partially replicated by an Ioun Stone), Regeneration, Elemental Rings, that sort of things. When the DMG first came out, these and others, were not really replicated by magic items.
Thing is, with custom magic item crafting what it is, this isn't really the case. Especially with the arrival of Magic Item Compendium, and other rules for transporting unique magic item effects to other magic items, rings are now (more than ever) glorified wondrous items.

[Der_DWSage]

I'm actually going to play devil's advocate here. I don't think the devs thought rings were legitimately that powerful.

They were just trying to make it so you couldn't select from all the crafting feats from level 5 onwards, so they staggered them somewhat. Rings just ended up being the last ones on the list, due to random selection. I mean, look at the list.

Scribe Scroll - Level 1
Brew Potion - Level 3
Craft Wondrous Item - Level 3
Craft Arms and Armor - Level 5
Craft Wand - Level 5
Craft Rod - Level 9
Craft Staff - Level 12
Craft Ring - Level 12

...Admittedly, my Devil's Advocate reasoning is 'They weren't really thinking it through' rather than 'they thought rings were OP,' but I feel it stands to reason.

[darksolitaire]

All right. This "one ring" doesn't seem to be very good. You'll be invisible, but anything with alternative senses like scent or blind sense can still pinpoint you. That aura will ping anything that even looks at you way with divination spell, so that's quite conspicuous! Not to mention that you'll be doing will saves constantly, meaning that you're bound to botch one eventually. I ain't going to take a feat to re-roll those 1's. And since it takes huge chomp of WBL, I'd much rather just get Wizard to persist invisibility or greater invisibility when I need it.

[Extra Anchovies]

All right. This "one ring" doesn't seem to be very good. You'll be invisible, but anything with alternative senses like scent or blind sense can still pinpoint you. That aura will ping anything that even looks at you way with divination spell, so that's quite conspicuous! Not to mention that you'll be doing will saves constantly, meaning that you're bound to botch one eventually. I ain't going to take a feat to re-roll those 1's. And since it takes huge chomp of WBL, I'd much rather just get Wizard to persist invisibility or greater invisibility when I need it.

Exactly. Gollum is terribly optimized. But at least even he had the sense to dump Charisma.

[Jeff the Green]

...Admittedly, my Devil's Advocate reasoning is 'They weren't really thinking it through' rather than 'they thought rings were OP,' but I feel it stands to reason.

...that would be consistent with Wizard's MO.

[Der_DWSage]

Hence why I said it stands to reason.

[Khosan]

One ring per ring-finger, one ring per gauntlet, one ring per elbow, one ring for a held weapon, one ring for shield spikes, one ring for the shield itself, one ring for armor spikes, one ring per boot , one ring per knee, at least one ring for a braid blade, one ring for a tail club/scythe.

That's a lot of rings, especially with two warforged mighty arms grafts on a dracotaur or something.

Also, if you're male, you can squeeze an extra one in there.

EDIT: On topic, there's really no functional difference between rings and wondrous items, except that you can wear two rings. I don't think it'd be that problematic a houserule to remove Forge Ring and just classify rings as wondrous items.

[Rainbownaga]

Whenever the wearer falls more than five feet! That means they don't take falling damage. And it costs only 2200 GP! This is so powerful, they couldn't not restrict us to two rings at a time!

I just realised the better part of the monk class can be replaced by two rings and a belt.

[Gemini476]

All right. This "one ring" doesn't seem to be very good. You'll be invisible, but anything with alternative senses like scent or blind sense can still pinpoint you. That aura will ping anything that even looks at you way with divination spell, so that's quite conspicuous! Not to mention that you'll be doing will saves constantly, meaning that you're bound to botch one eventually. I ain't going to take a feat to re-roll those 1's. And since it takes huge chomp of WBL, I'd much rather just get Wizard to persist invisibility or greater invisibility when I need it.

It basically makes you Ethereal minus the incorporeality.

The Dominate effect, stored magical power and general phylactery-ness of it makes it a bit more useful.

[Rubik]

Also, if you're male, you can squeeze an extra one in there.And don't forget, one ring per ring, since poison rings are weapons and can thus gain the ringsword enhancement.

So, basically, infinirings. Kind of like Sonic the Hedgehog, honestly.


EDIT: On topic, there's really no functional difference between rings and wondrous items, except that you can wear two rings. I don't think it'd be that problematic a houserule to remove Forge Ring and just classify rings as wondrous items.Psionic rings are made with the CWI equivalent, Craft Universal Item, so just make them psionic.

[atemu1234]

And don't forget, one ring per ring, since poison rings are weapons and can thus gain the ringsword enhancement.

So, basically, infinirings. Kind of like Sonic the Hedgehog, honestly.

Psionic rings are made with the CWI equivalent, Craft Universal Item, so just make them psionic.

I like these ideas.

[ericgrau]

Two rings means your slots are more customizable, plus rings tend to have the same effects as many other body slots. They are one step closer to slotless items, which force you to pay double. I always have trouble budgeting my ring slots, trying to force as many effects as possible into their normal body slot and saving the ring slots for the effects that I can't fit because that body slot is taken. If I could have more than two ring slots it would make my gear setup stronger.

Not to mention some crazy rings like freedom of movement that often come up as necessities in build discussions yet their huge prohibitive cost gets ignored in these discussions. Paying half for those would be amazing.

But if you dropped the minimum CL to 5 then the campaign would not implode. Actually I think around CL 9 or 10 would be good to make the feat as popular as the others once crafters get smart and try it out. It'd be more powerful than the other feats which may have been what scared the designers, but there are less options on what to craft than other feats so it all evens out. But even at CL 12 it is a nice feat to have around that level or so, especially since you already took the other feats earlier.

[Extra Anchovies]

Where can I find this ringsword enchantment that's been talked about?

[Rubik]

Where can I find this ringsword enchantment that's been talked about?+4,000 gp. Arms & Equipment Guide, page 115.