Imp Familiar

[Doomchild]

Do Warlocks who have an Imp Familiar share the Imp's Magic Resistance? Because there's that sidebar on page 69 of the Monster Manual...

[JRutterbush]

No. The sidebar in the monster manual is for an imp who willingly serves as a familiar for a mage. Note that it says the imp can choose to abandon its "master's" service. The imp familiar gained through the Warlock class feature is... well, a class feature. Your class feature can't decide to up and walk away: it follows the rules put forth in find familiar, which state that it obeys your commands completely.

If you find someone who insists that their familiar grants them magic resistance, then don't forget to remind them that that also means that their familiar can just up and leave whenever it wants to.

[MaxWilson]

Quasits can leave whenever they want to. Imps can only leave if the contract is broken.

I would say that yes, Imps grant Magic Resistance when within 10' of their master, just as the MM says. Vulnerable to getting killed through since they only have something like 7 HP.

[Tenmujiin]

Quasits can leave whenever they want to. Imps can only leave if the contract is broken.

I would say make sure the PC actually has a contract with the imp/imp's master that can be broken (kind of like a paladin oath with more evil) in that case.

Edit: Basically make sure the stipulations of their pact with whatever otherworldly being are stated rather than implied and have the imp leave if the pact is broken.

[charlesk]

Funny I was just noticing this in the MM myself and wondering about it.

Seems to me this makes an already very powerful 3rd level ability rather insanely powerful. Also, the ability to communicate within 1 mile (as opposed to 100 feet) makes an invocation specifically devoted to this feature somewhat useless.

I'd love it if my DM allowed the MM rules, but I probably wouldn't if I were a DM. (Exception might be, as some have said, a specific pact with specific conditions that might cause inconvenience to the player.)

[infinitetech]

it is RAW legal, and compared to old school shenanigals not that broken, what you need to watch for is if someone like me just asks if i can make a CR2 creature my familiar...anyone know where im going with that?

[charlesk]

RAW says you get the Find Familiar spell but just have the option of 4 extra monsters. It doesn't say anything about special sidebars in the MM.

I wouldn't allow it personally.

[edge2054]

I don't have the MM but I think stuff like this would make good additional invocations. As charlesk said, the ability to communicate within 1 mile is already an invocation.

[Doomchild]

I'm going to have my player's Imp constantly offering him different contracts to see if he'll take the bait. :smallbiggrin:

[edge2054]

If I had a DM like you I would so roll a warlock!

[Doomchild]

If I had a DM like you I would so roll a warlock!

I mean, at first, the contracts are going to all be things he'll definitely not accept (he's CG, the Imp is LE), but over the course of the campaign I plan to have the Imp offer more and more enticing traps, er, I mean contracts. Remember, advantage against spells is nice, but losing your immortal soul is a hefty price to pay.

[edge2054]

Sounds like great roleplaying :)

[Segev]

From an RAI standpoint, as well as a minorly tortured RAW standpoint, I'd say that the Imp serves as per Find Familiar unless the DM decides the Imp is "serving willingly." Willing service can come about from a number of ways, including talking the critter into bestowing the additional power "for our mutual benefit" in a tight spot, or having the devil offer it in return for some service (specified then and there or left hanging, depending on what he thinks he can get away with) in a pinch...or because of some longer-term genuine friendship or formalized contractual agreement.

The Imp can revoke it any time it stops being willing to grant it. Generally, if under contract, its Lawful nature won't let it capriciously stop granting its perks, though.

In all, I think this enables role-playing, gives a secure handle on the extra power, and provides a lever for making sure it's paid for one way or another.

[Cyrus_Mortis]

RAW says you get the Find Familiar spell but just have the option of 4 extra monsters. It doesn't say anything about special sidebars in the MM.

I wouldn't allow it personally.

Well it also states "the familiar has the statistics of the chosen form, "

which would imply that it has all the stats of said creature from the MM.

And as far as RP the "pact" of a warlock would be the deal, the pact of the chain just gets an imp as one of the warlock's stipulations. I personally would limit their choice to fiend if they wanted that though... as an imp just doesn't fit with Archfey or Great Old Ones ( i imagine cathulu esk)

[Puh Laden]

Well it also states "the familiar has the statistics of the chosen form, "

which would imply that it has all the stats of said creature from the MM.

And as far as RP the "pact" of a warlock would be the deal, the pact of the chain just gets an imp as one of the warlock's stipulations. I personally would limit their choice to fiend if they wanted that though... as an imp just doesn't fit with Archfey or Great Old Ones ( i imagine cathulu esk)

The sidebar isn't part of the statistics. If that's part of its statistics, who's to say the fluff isn't part of its statistics? Plus it does not imply the statistics from the MM. Nothing in the PHB requires the MM to be used. The statistics for the kind of imp a warlock can gain is in one of the appendices to the PHB.

My interpretation of the familiar sidebars is that they are:

#1 optional variants to be used at the DM's discretion.
#2 meant for spellcasters (particularly NPCs) who have a familiar that they personally found rather than summoned with find familiar. Especially since find familiar states that the familiar gained from the spell is a spirit that takes a form. Now I'm all for the fluff of getting an actual imp as a familiar through find familiar as an option, but I'm also for following the rules as intended in this case.

Now of course, if the DM and the group as a whole doesn't mind the power boost, more power to them, but this is definitely a loose and unintended interpretation of the rules. Heck, to my understanding, not even my interpretation that any of the variant familiars could ever be adopted by a PC who finds one is not the intent, but I stand by it in games I run nonetheless. I do not expect my DMs to allow variant familiars in games I play in.

[Millstone85]

The MM has another important sidebar, which I hadn't noticed before:
Variant: Familiars
Any spellcaster that can cast the find familiar spell (such as an archmage or mage) is likely to have a familiar. The familiar can be one of the creatures described in the spell (see the Player's Handbook) or some other Tiny monster, such as a crawling claw, imp, pseudodragon, or quasit.Though I didn't miss its equivalent in VGtM.

If you apply that sidebar to PCs, then Pact of the Chain becomes a lot less attractive. You could have any of the Chain familiars and more with Pact of the Tome, or as a wizard.


Also, the ability to communicate within 1 mile (as opposed to 100 feet) makes an invocation specifically devoted to this feature somewhat useless.The master can use the familiar's senses over 1 mile, but it is not quite clear if the telepathic bond allows communication.

[ATHATH]

From an RAI standpoint, as well as a minorly tortured RAW standpoint, I'd say that the Imp serves as per Find Familiar unless the DM decides the Imp is "serving willingly." Willing service can come about from a number of ways, including talking the critter into bestowing the additional power "for our mutual benefit" in a tight spot, or having the devil offer it in return for some service (specified then and there or left hanging, depending on what he thinks he can get away with) in a pinch...or because of some longer-term genuine friendship or formalized contractual agreement.

The Imp can revoke it any time it stops being willing to grant it. Generally, if under contract, its Lawful nature won't let it capriciously stop granting its perks, though.

In all, I think this enables role-playing, gives a secure handle on the extra power, and provides a lever for making sure it's paid for one way or another.
+1, I was pretty much going to say exactly this.

[bovinelightfoot]

I mean, at first, the contracts are going to all be things he'll definitely not accept (he's CG, the Imp is LE), but over the course of the campaign I plan to have the Imp offer more and more enticing traps, er, I mean contracts. Remember, advantage against spells is nice, but losing your immortal soul is a hefty price to pay.

What happens if u take an imps contract? What incentives do you give for that

[bblackmoor]

So let's say that, barring exceptional circumstances, a warlock doesn't gain the resistances of their familiar. What is the appeal of Pact Of The Chain, then? I mean, getting an imp is pretty nifty, but it's nowhere near as nifty as getting a half-dozen more spells (from Pact Of The Tome), and an imp is only marginally more useful than, say, a raven (available to a warlock with Pact Of The Tome).

Is there some utility I am missing?

[JellyPooga]

A familiar gained through use of the Find Familiar spell (including Pact of the Chains additional options), is a spirit in the form of whatever it's in the form of. It's type is of your choosing from Fiend, Celestial or Fey.

So an Imp familiar from PoC might look like an Imp, sound like an Imp, even act a bit like an Imp...but it isn't an Imp. In my book, the sidebar regarding granting magic resistance applies to Imps, not things that merely have the stats of an Imp.

[bblackmoor]

A familiar gained through use of the Find Familiar spell (including Pact of the Chains additional options), is a spirit in the form of whatever it's in the form of. It's type is of your choosing from Fiend, Celestial or Fey. So an Imp familiar from PoC might look like an Imp, sound like an Imp, even act a bit like an Imp...but it isn't an Imp.

That would mean that a warlock with Pact Of The Chain could re-cast Find Familiar to change their familiar from a not-an-imp to a not-a-pseudodragon. Personally, that is not how I would interpret that. But that's just my opinion.

[coolAlias]

That would mean that a warlock with Pact Of The Chain could re-cast Find Familiar to change their familiar from a not-an-imp to a not-a-pseudodragon. Personally, that is not how I would interpret that. But that's just my opinion.
Would that be a pseudo-pseudodragon? If so, would that make it a dragon?

[Drackolus]

That would mean that a warlock with Pact Of The Chain could re-cast Find Familiar to change their familiar from a not-an-imp to a not-a-pseudodragon. Personally, that is not how I would interpret that. But that's just my opinion.

That is how the spell works. The feature merely expands the options of the spell. It does not actually change how said spell functions.

Of course, you can always change that. I certainly think pact of the tome is easily the most powerful, but the ability to have a familiar that can turn itself invisible should not be underestimated.

Taking a celestial spirit and forming it into an imp would be a great way to have a world react to a player using their agency. "Why in the nine heavens did you form me into a disgusting IMP, master?"

[bblackmoor]

That is how the spell works. The feature merely expands the options of the spell. It does not actually change how said spell functions.

I can understand why you might think that, but I do not agree.


Taking a celestial spirit and forming it into an imp ...

... is a pretty succinct example of why I disagree with that interpretation.

[CursedRhubarb]

The best things with the Imp that I've seen have been more the utility of it. They have hands, can turn invisible, and they are shape changers so you don't have to spend 10gp to change its shape when you want to have it use a different form.

Also fun to have them always stay invis and speak to them verbally, while they respond through the telepathic link. Great for getting others to think your character is just crazy.

[Unoriginal]

the familiar you get from your class feature isn't a real imp, it's a spirit that takes the shape of an imp.

[Vorpalchicken]

X'grzzt: You dawg, I heard you liked familiars so I'm giving you a familiar that is shaped just like a familiar so you can be familiar with your familiar while you familiar.

[Drackolus]

I can understand why you might think that, but I do not agree.

... is a pretty succinct example of why I disagree with that interpretation.

Do you not agree that it's what the book says, or do you not agree that that's how it should work? If the former, what makes you say that? If it's the latter... Well, I am somewhat not satisfied with 5e's familiars as a whole, so I agree with you there :smalltongue:

[DivisibleByZero]

RAW says you get the Find Familiar spell but just have the option of 4 extra monsters. It doesn't say anything about special sidebars in the MM.

I wouldn't allow it personally.

This.
Is just a regular familiar with extra options.
Note that the familiar IS NOT the actuary creature, it's just a spirit in that creature's form.
So your "imp" familiar isn't even really an imp.

[bblackmoor]

Note that the familiar IS NOT the actuary creature, it's just a spirit in that creature's form.

Again: I can see why someone might interpret it that way, but I don't. If the warlock's patron is a devil, and the familiar is an imp, it's an actual imp, not a spirit pretending to be an imp. The Pact Of The Chain familiars are the actual creatures, not a spirit that could be an imp today and a pseudodragon tomorrow.

[Dalebert]

There are kinks to work out like the possibility that you could be a fey warlock and have an imp. However, the idea that a fiend warlock's imp familiar isn't actually an imp just really rubs me the wrong way. I'm fine with not getting the MM optional bennies. Just tell me it doesn't come with that, but don't use "It's not really an imp" as the reasoning.

This is something I've been fine with thus far but it's really starting to bug me. The FLAVOR is wrong. I don't feel like a real warlock with a watered-down imp-like spirit that could just as easily be an octopus tomorrow. I admit that IS what the ability seems to describe but dang.

[Drackolus]

I agree that it's not satisfactory, and I totally agree with and likely would houserule it differently. It is, however, a houserule. The book is not at all ambiguous; find familiar binds a celestial, fey, or fiend into one of the forms listed, and pact of the chain only allows the casting of find familiar, the attack thing, and also allows pseudodragons, imps, quasits, and sprites.
In my limited experience (one longstanding group of close friends), yours has been the assumption, and familiars are a pretty rare plot point, so it's almost never an issue in the "real fantasy world." However, it's better safe than sorry, so if I were giving advice (and I am)...
If you're in AL; sorry, that's WoTC's failure, but even the dm is supposed to adhere to it. Probably still a non-issue, but that's one of the tradeoffs of heavily regulated play.
In house play, the phb is still assumed to be applicable to the game unless otherwise stated. A dm would be wise to mention the change to prospective warlock players during session 0 (you could do it afterwards, but if there is a pact of the chain warlock who likes how it works in the rules, they would be rightly annoyed if you changed how their character works, for essentially no real reason other than it's badwrongfun to you).
Players would be wise to talk to their dm's about it, again, ideally during session 0. Odds are, they didn't have an imp npc planned out; but if you say "I'd really rather my familiar be a real imp, rather than a fiend spirit in the shape of an imp, purely because that's cooler and I'm not looking for weird boosts..." well, most DM's will probably roll their eyes, but some (resourceful) dm's will note that if the familiar means that much to you, it becomes a great storytelling tool.
Tl;dr - the rules say no, most people don't care, but you should say yes anyway.

[DivisibleByZero]

For the people that don't like it, that's fine, house rule it.
But a rules question was asked, and the rules are clear.
The answer is that the imp is not actually an imp, unless your DM rules otherwise.

[Millstone85]

I don't feel like a real warlock with a watered-down imp-like spirit that could just as easily be an octopus tomorrow.I would flip the perspective.

Where the find familiar spell summons an octopus that is actually a fiend, a chainlock can give that spirit a form that is closer to its true nature. Or it could be a form that is even more deceiving.

Even in the Nine Hells, fiendish spirits get promoted or demoted to various forms.

[JellyPooga]

I actually like the idea that a PoC Warlock can have whatever familiar they like without having to be constrained by the fluff of the form of their familiar; a Fey spirit in Imp form allows a Feylock to have the same mechanical benefit as a Fiendlock or GOOlock, but with an appropriate type for their familiar. It's not like an Imps stats can't fit the nature and abilities of a Fey creature, after all.

The only crowbar you kind of have to jam into your head is the notion that a familiar simply isn't actually the creature it's taken the form of; it's just borrowing the stats for ease of play, rather than having a whole separate stat block for familiars.

The fact that actual Imps and such can also be familiars, is a separate concept to those summoned by the spell; but that's a case of an NPC doing a deal with a PC and should be treated as such.

[DivisibleByZero]

I actually like the idea that a PoC Warlock can have whatever familiar they like without having to be constrained by the fluff of the form of their familiar; a Fey spirit in Imp form allows a Feylock to have the same mechanical benefit as a Fiendlock or GOOlock, but with an appropriate type for their familiar. It's not like an Imps stats can't fit the nature and abilities of a Fey creature, after all.

The only crowbar you kind of have to jam into your head is the notion that a familiar simply isn't actually the creature it's taken the form of; it's just borrowing the stats for ease of play, rather than having a whole separate stat block for familiars.

The fact that actual Imps and such can also be familiars, is a separate concept to those summoned by the spell; but that's a case of an NPC doing a deal with a PC and should be treated as such.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I completely agree with this.
But a rules question was asked and a rules answer needed to be given (which it was, many times).
I'm 100% on board with games allowing whatever-the-heck you want. Both ascetically and mechanically. If you want a "real" imp or a "real" pseudodragon or an octopus or whatever, who really cares? It's not like these are some crazy OP familiars or anything.
But within the confines of the rules, this isn't allowed.

[JellyPooga]

But within the confines of the rules, this isn't allowed

Not through use of the Find Familiar spell, no, but there's nothing stopping a character (Warlock or otherwise) from "recruiting" a familiar or just having a pet by other means. After all, you don't have to be a Ranger, let alone a Beastmaster, to have a pet dog.

[DivisibleByZero]

Not through use of the Find Familiar spell, no, but there's nothing stopping a character (Warlock or otherwise) from "recruiting" a familiar or just having a pet by other means. After all, you don't have to be a Ranger, let alone a Beastmaster, to have a pet dog.

Yes, but the question implies a familiar granted by Pact of the Chain, as no tomfoolery or optional rules used by the DM was mentioned, and it simply asked about a Warlock with a imp familiar.
Obviously if the DM is using either optional rules or house rules, then no one will be able to answer any questions on the subject except the DM him or herself. Since the question was posed to the public, one must assume that we have to answer following only core rules and with no assumptions made about what may or may not be provided by the DM outside of those core rules.

[Dalebert]

I guess it's not that hard to achieve the flavor. If you picked "fiend" and then an imp, you could argue that it's actually an imp but the spell can force it into other forms if desired. No, that doesn't mean you get the MM bennies. Those are optional rules and thus up to the DM in homebrews or up to AL to ban (which it has). I've thus far never been denied pure flavor options in AL which have no mechanical impact.

Where there's a wrench is the idea that it's supposed to be the same spirit in different forms and yet it's alignment can change. That's just a sloppy mess flavor-wise that contradicts the mechanics described. I feel like FF should have had an exception to the alignment and just said it always has the caster's alignment.

[Millstone85]

Where there's a wrench is the idea that it's supposed to be the same spirit in different forms and yet it's alignment can change.Well, that's its own debate, but when I read...
For information on how to read a stat block, see the Monster Manual.
The alignment specified in a monster's stat block is the default. Feel free to depart from it and change a monster's alignment to suit the needs of your campaign. If you want a good-aligned green dragon or an evil storm giant, there's nothing stopping you. I think that part of the block is meant to be more flexible than most here assume.

[Arial Black]

I find the argument that "it's not really an imp" to be misleading, and pointless beyond being misleading.

Does anyone suggest that it's a spirit in the mere shape of an imp, but without any imp abilities whatsoever? That the spirit does not gain the abilities of an imp but retains its own? What are its own abilities?

No, the spirit not only takes the form of an imp, it also gets the abilities of an imp, whatever those abilities are! The fact that it was born a 'spirit' instead of an 'imp' in no way affects what abilities it has; a 'true-born' imp and a 'spirit in the form of an imp' have identical abilities, so its origin is irrelevant.

[Millstone85]

No, the spirit not only takes the form of an imp, it also gets the abilities of an imp, whatever those abilities are!The spirit gets the statistics of the chosen form, as defined in the corresponding stat block.

The "variant: X familiar" rules of the MM fall outside of stat blocks, and are clearly meant as an alternative to the rules of the Find Familiar spell and the Pact of the Chain class feature. They should not be assumed to apply just because your pet is X and a familiar.

But you may have a point about real-deal-vs-form not being such a great in-universe justification.

[Arial Black]

The spirit gets the statistics of the chosen form, as defined in the corresponding stat block.

You may or may not choose to build an extension to your house. IF you choose to build it, then the extension IS part of your house. It's now just another room.

A creature's 'statistics' in 5E definitely include the information in its stat block, but if the DM chooses to use the game mechanics in the side-bars then those mechanics ARE part of that creature's statistics.

[Millstone85]

You may or may not choose to build an extension to your house. IF you choose to build it, then the extension IS part of your house. It's now just another room.

A creature's 'statistics' in 5E definitely include the information in its stat block, but if the DM chooses to use the game mechanics in the side-bars then those mechanics ARE part of that creature's statistics.And with this, it finally clicked in my mind. :smalleek:

It is not a matter of "form of an imp" versus "true imp". Rather, it is about "imp" versus "variant imp".

A DM may choose to introduce an imp that follows the Variant: Imp Familiar sidebar in the MM, meaning this imp has the ability to create a telepathic bond with a creature it regards as its master, with various benefits for the latter.

That doesn't mean every imp in the game can now do the same. And if the chainlock PC orders their imp to create the same telepathic bond with them, the DM can still say "Sorry, little Qarr can't do that".

It is not necessarily good DMing, but it is what I now believe to have been the RAI.

[Biggstick]

Why are Players even looking to the MM in regards to the Familiar that Pact of the Chain provides? All 4 creatures (Imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit, and Sprite) are all listed at the back of the PHB. Not a single one of those listed at the back of the PHB say they provide a magical aura of any kind.

Now I might be wrong here, but I'm assuming those at WOTC included these creatures in the PHB specifically for the Pact of the Chain Warlock feature. They put the capabilities they wished PC Warlocks who made this particular Pact easily available to them without having to look in the MM.

As for why you would choose Pact of the Chain (specifically for an Imp) over Pact of the Tome, it's an extremely powerful scout who can kill most NPC's with 15 or less hp in their sleep. Here is the math for it.

We're going to assume you took the Invocation Voice of the Chain Master, so you could watch and talk to your Familiar while it's sneaking into some house on the other side of the city and you're safe and sound in your 2nd floor room of a non-descript Inn.

The Imp invisibly flies over the mark's house. Lands quietly on the rooftop. Shifts into the form of a Spider. Finds a way into the Noble's House. Slowly makes their way into the Noble's room in Spider form. Crawls up onto the bed and attacks the sleeping and unconscious Noble in their bed.

While shapeshifted, the attack bonus and damage stays the same. When the target is sleeping in their home and unconscious, they probably aren't wearing armor and any successful attacks landed count as critical attacks. Most of the time, this will be a successful surprise round attack.

Bite: +5 to hit. On a hit,
(1d4)*2 +3 piercing damage. Average damage = 8 piercing damage
(3d6)*2 poison damage. DC 11 Con save for half. Average damage (made save) = 10 poison damage

This means that on average, with the Con save being made, you're doing 18 damage to a sleeping NPC. This is most likely going to kill said NPC, unless there is something special about them. What's even better about this, is you're watching the entire thing from across the city. If for some reason the NPC survives, you can either continue the combat and with the unarmed and unarmored NPC and kill them, continue combat with the NPC in Spider form and the NPC kills a Spider that bit it (tbh, not unusual imo), dismiss your Familiar and have them disappear, or have your Familiar attempt to scurry away on their own, shift to Imp form and turn themselves invisible. You can speak through your Familiar's form as well should the situation call for it.

If combat is to continue, the Imp's statistics hold up surprisingly well in combat, as they're resistant to standard weapons that aren't silvered, are immune to fire and poison, as well as resistant to cold. With 10 HP, and resistant to most things an NPC would try to use, they effectively have 20 HP. This means they're going to be able to most likely survive a single round of combat if it loses initiative, and can potentially finish off the NPC within that first round.

If for some reason your Imp loses the combat, the NPC in question has killed a Spider that bit it. This Spider's body will now fade away, and the evidence of the attack is gone. Nothing at the scene of the crime will lead back to you.
You have an intelligent Familiar that can be all sorts of active while you sleep. Give it a task to collect information either in it's invisible Imp form, or in one of it's non-descript animal forms (Raven, Spider, or Rat). Sure, you can do this with a regular Familiar, but only within 100' of you. With Pact of the Chain and Voice of the Chain Master, you can have your Imp telepathically contact you if it finds something interesting on the other side of the city that needs your attention. You could have your Imp travel even further then the other side of a city, and recon all sorts of information for you, while telepathically allowing you to see it for yourself as well.

I just want to re-emphasize, there shouldn't be any sort of debate as to whether a Pact of the Chain Warlock receives an aura from it's special Familiar. Players have no reason to know the statistics of any creature listed in the MM. The stat blocks and statistics for each special Familiar listed is in the back of the PHB, and none of them list a magical aura being provided to the PC.

[bblackmoor]

Now I might be wrong here, but I'm assuming those at WOTC included these creatures in the PHB specifically for the Pact of the Chain Warlock feature. They put the capabilities they wished PC Warlocks who made this particular Pact easily available to them without having to look in the MM.

I think that's a completely reasonable assumption.


You have an intelligent Familiar that can be all sorts of active while you sleep.

Are you assuming that familiars (the normal "spirit" kind, and the four special kinds available to Pact Of The Chain warlocks) don't need to sleep? Because when a creature doesn't need to sleep, that trait is always called out in the creature's description (for example, the "Undead Nature" trait in the descriptions of skeletons, zombies, and will-o-the-wisps). I don't see that anywhere pertaining to familiars. Have I overlooked it?

[JackPhoenix]

Are you assuming that familiars (the normal "spirit" kind, and the four special kinds available to Pact Of The Chain warlocks) don't need to sleep? Because when a creature doesn't need to sleep, that trait is always called out in the creature's description (for example, the "Undead Nature" trait in the descriptions of skeletons, zombies, and will-o-the-wisps). I don't see that anywhere pertaining to familiars. Have I overlooked it?

Even if it needs to sleep, it doesn't have to sleep at the same time as you. So the familiar takes a nap during the day, and murders commoners at night, when you're sleeping. Just like real cats (except the commoner murders) Real cats don't care what time of the day it is

[Dalebert]

Any minion with a modicum of intelligence and hands is a lot more useful than most people give them credit for. Think action economy, which rules all else in terms of power dynamics in 5e. Unseen servants and skeletons are nice for what they can do like administer a healing potion or healer's kit or to trigger an AoO from an enemy so you can get a free disengage. But an imp doesn't even require your bonus action to command! It's like having a whole other set of actions available to you for free. It can do a variety of non-violent but extremely useful actions while staying invisible--administer healing potions, assist, interact with an object, activate a magic item (which sometimes will violate invisibility but not always).

[Biggstick]

Are you assuming that familiars (the normal "spirit" kind, and the four special kinds available to Pact Of The Chain warlocks) don't need to sleep? Because when a creature doesn't need to sleep, that trait is always called out in the creature's description (for example, the "Undead Nature" trait in the descriptions of skeletons, zombies, and will-o-the-wisps). I don't see that anywhere pertaining to familiars. Have I overlooked it?

I assume a spirit doesn't need to sleep. You are right though in that a creature not needing to sleep has it pointed out every time it's true in it's stat block (most anything undead has this feature), and the special Familiars do not have that particular trait in their stat block.


Even if it needs to sleep, it doesn't have to sleep at the same time as you. So the familiar takes a nap during the day, and murders commoners at night, when you're sleeping. Just like real cats (except the commoner murders)

And while I didn't come up with it myself, this is the answer I would put to my DM. I can Dismiss my Familiar upon waking up in the morning and have it go sleep in it's own pocket dimension.

Big thanks to Jack for coming up with this when my DM inevitably asks me about it haha.

[90sMusic]

Just pick a different pact and make a deal with an imp later. Then you get the best of both worlds and even more features and abilities than you would've before.

Or if you really want spell resistance, just roll a gnome.

[cZak]

So the only difference in the Pact of the Chain vs Find familiar is the form the creature can take..?

Seems kinda meh...

[rbstr]

So the only difference in the Pact of the Chain vs Find familiar is the form the creature can take..?

Seems kinda meh...

I mean the options are a good bit stronger than a regular familiar...and those are very useful still.
There are other invocations. Like Chains of Carceri: cast hold monster for absolutely free on fey, fiend or celestial, once per long rest.
One in UA gives you maximized healing done to you.

[Naanomi]

If we are arguing that the Imps/Sprites/Quasits are 'real' and not just spirits in approximations of forms; it is sad that GOO and Undying chainlocks don't have fluff appropriate options for themselves (it's a shame anyways but doubly so if you are forced to have a real demon following you when you have nothing to do with them)

I allow Gazers, some Quasits, and beefed up Crawling Claws and Cranial Rats as options in my games