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Grey Watcher
2014-10-11, 05:56 PM
So this is my attempt to do something dragon-themed for the Fighter. It's primarily designed with Dragonborn in mind, but you could justify it for any race.

Dragon Warrior
You have been touched by dragons. Perhaps your ancestry includes dragonborn or even true dragons. Perhaps you have received some sort of blessing from such a creature. Regardless, you have a connection to dragons that is quite literally part of your very being, and it enhances your ability to fight.

Draconic Bite
Starting when you chose this archetype at 3rd level, you have a bite attack that you can use as a bonus action. It deals 1d4 piercing damage. Starting at 7th level, this bite attack deals 1d6 damage and is considered magical. Starting at 10th level, it deals 1d8 damage and starting at 18th level, it deals 1d10 damage.

Draconic Courage
Starting at 7th level, you have advantage on all saving throws to avoid or end the frightened condition.

Draconic Wings
At 7th level, you grow a pair of wings (or existing wings become strong enough for use). As long as you are not incapacitated, restrained, or unconscious, you gain the following benefits: you have advantage on skill and ability checks to jump, climb, or maintain your balance, and when, falling, you halve the distance for purposes of calculating damage. In order to make use of your wings, most armor must be properly modified.

You can fold this wings up against your body as a bonus action, allowing you to conceal them beneath unmodified clothing or armor. While they are folded, you do not gain the benefit of Draconic Wings, Wing Buffet, or Draconic Flight. You can unfold the wings as a bonus action to regain these benefits, but doing so will severely damage non-magical clothing. You cannot unfold your wings if you have them folded under armor that does not accommodate wings.

Wing Buffet
Starting at 10th level, you gain a wing buffet attack. As a bonus action, you can shove creatures in a 30-foot cone. In addition, if you succeed against a particular creature, that creature is both moved 5-feet and knocked prone, rather than one or the other.

Draconic Flight
Starting at 15th level, your wings are strong enough to bear you in flight. You gain a fly speed equal to your current speed.

Draconic Presence
Beginning at 18th level, as an action, you can exude an aura of fear or awe (your choice) to a distance of 60 feet. For 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were casting a concentration spell), each hostile creature that starts its turn in this aura must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be charmed (if you chose awe) or frightened (if you chose fear) until the aura ends. The DC equals 8 + your proficiency modifier + your charisma bonus. A creature that succeeds on this saving throw is immune to your aura for 24 hours. Once you have used this ability, you must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

So that's that. Obviously Draconic Flight and Draconic Presence are lifted straight from their equivalents in the Draconic Bloodline from the Sorcerer, the rest I just tried to come up with something that fit the flavor.

Nota bene, I haven't gotten the Monster Manual yet, so I don't actually know what dragons can do, so suggestions along that line are welcome.

Anyway, have at it, since I was hoping to convince my DM to let me use this in an upcoming campaign, so I'd appreciate it if you could help me get this into playable shape.

EDIT 1: Fixed some contradictory wording.
EDIT 2: Added the DC for Draconic Presence
EDIT 3: Added the language about being able to fold up your wings and made bite damage scale. It seems to be that features that come from archetypes only improve at levels when you gain new archetype features, hence why it's not 1:1 with the Monk damage scale.

BRKNdevil
2014-10-11, 10:37 PM
So this is my attempt to do something dragon-themed for the Fighter. It's primarily designed with Dragonborn in mind, but you could justify it for any race.

Dragon Warrior
You have been touched by dragons. Perhaps your ancestry includes dragonborn or even true dragons. Perhaps you have received some sort of blessing from such a creature. Regardless, you have a connection to dragons that is quite literally part of your very being, and it enhances your ability to fight.

Draconic Bite
Starting when you chose this archetype at 3rd level, you have a bite attack that you can use as a bonus action. It deals 1d6 piercing damage. Starting at 8th level, this bite attack is considered magical.

Draconic Courage
Starting at 7th level, you have advantage on all saving throws to avoid or end the frightened condition.

Draconic Wings
At 7th level, you grow a pair of wings (or existing wings become strong enough for use). As long as you are not incapacitated, restrained, or unconscious, you gain the following benefits: you have advantage on skill and ability checks to jump, climb, or maintain your balance, and when, falling, you halve the distance for purposes of calculating damage. In order to make use of your wings, most armor must be properly modified.

Wing Buffet
Starting at 10th level, you gain a wing buffet attack. As a bonus action, you can shove creatures in a 30-foot cone. In addition, if you succeed against a particular creature, that creature is both moved 5-feet and knocked prone, rather than both.



First off, i am finding draconic bite sort of lackluster, sure its pretty nice early on in the game, but it quickly loses steam to other options. maybe scaling like a monk?

Second, if you want something that the dragons do but yours doesn't, its a breath attack but that actually seems op

Third, Your Wing Buffet, has some odd wording. Do you mean 5-feet or Knocked Prone?

Finally, You should Probably still let the player be able to sprout the Wings on command

Grey Watcher
2014-10-11, 10:57 PM
First off, i am finding draconic bite sort of lackluster, sure its pretty nice early on in the game, but it quickly loses steam to other options. maybe scaling like a monk?

Good thought. I was trying to make sure it didn't overshadow the weapon itself, though. I'll take a look at the Monk again and see if I can make it work.


Second, if you want something that the dragons do but yours doesn't, its a breath attack but that actually seems op

I specifically avoided the breath weapon because I didn't want to make this option less attractive to a Dragonborn Fighter, since they already have a breath weapon. Plus, I didn't want this to be a gateway on its own to AoE damage, since that's more a job for the Eldritch Knight.


Third, Your Wing Buffet, has some odd wording. Do you mean 5-feet or Knocked Prone?

I did, in fact, mean "and", but you are right that the rest of the wording is a little messed up. Basically, the standard shove attack in the PHB says you can either move the target 5 feet or make it prone. This was intended to be better than a standard shove, since you can hit multiple targets, use it at range, and get both effects instead of one or the other. Although upon further consideration perhaps just the multi-target and works-at-range benefits are enough. I think I'll sleep on that question.


Finally, You should Probably still let the player be able to sprout the Wings on command

Yeah, I kinda wanted to avoid it being quite so... obviously supernatural? I considered adding some language about being able to fold or unfold them as a bonus action (which, would, mechanically, be the same), but the wording got messy and I gave up. I'll take a stab at reintegrating that language tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback!

Sindeloke
2014-10-16, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I kinda wanted to avoid it being quite so... obviously supernatural? I considered adding some language about being able to fold or unfold them as a bonus action (which, would, mechanically, be the same), but the wording got messy and I gave up. I'll take a stab at reintegrating that language tomorrow.

Have you ever seen Disney's Gargoyles? The gargoyles in that show fold their wings over their shoulders like capes when they're not flying, and hook their wing fingers together as a kind of clasp. It looks pretty cool and is a very practical way to get them out of the way without losing immediate access to them; it doesn't quite make sense biologically, but neither does dragons flying in the first place, so.

If you're still looking for more dragon-themed things to add, consider some party face abilities, like proficiency in Persuade or Deception. It would help alleviate the problem of fighters still not having much to contribute outside combat, and could give them some of that sense of Charisma and sorcerous tongue while they're waiting for the Awe aura.

Amnoriath
2014-10-16, 11:08 PM
So this is my attempt to do something dragon-themed for the Fighter. It's primarily designed with Dragonborn in mind, but you could justify it for any race.

Dragon Warrior
You have been touched by dragons. Perhaps your ancestry includes dragonborn or even true dragons. Perhaps you have received some sort of blessing from such a creature. Regardless, you have a connection to dragons that is quite literally part of your very being, and it enhances your ability to fight.

Draconic Bite
Starting when you chose this archetype at 3rd level, you have a bite attack that you can use as a bonus action. It deals 1d4 piercing damage. Starting at 7th level, this bite attack deals 1d6 damage and is considered magical. Starting at 10th level, it deals 1d8 damage and starting at 18th level, it deals 1d10 damage.

Draconic Courage
Starting at 7th level, you have advantage on all saving throws to avoid or end the frightened condition.

Draconic Wings
At 7th level, you grow a pair of wings (or existing wings become strong enough for use). As long as you are not incapacitated, restrained, or unconscious, you gain the following benefits: you have advantage on skill and ability checks to jump, climb, or maintain your balance, and when, falling, you halve the distance for purposes of calculating damage. In order to make use of your wings, most armor must be properly modified.

You can fold this wings up against your body as a bonus action, allowing you to conceal them beneath unmodified clothing or armor. While they are folded, you do not gain the benefit of Draconic Wings, Wing Buffet, or Draconic Flight. You can unfold the wings as a bonus action to regain these benefits, but doing so will severely damage non-magical clothing. You cannot unfold your wings if you have them folded under armor that does not accommodate wings.

Wing Buffet
Starting at 10th level, you gain a wing buffet attack. As a bonus action, you can shove creatures in a 30-foot cone. In addition, if you succeed against a particular creature, that creature is both moved 5-feet and knocked prone, rather than one or the other.

Draconic Flight
Starting at 15th level, your wings are strong enough to bear you in flight. You gain a fly speed equal to your current speed.

Draconic Presence
Beginning at 18th level, as an action, you can exude an aura of fear or awe (your choice) to a distance of 60 feet. For 1 minute or until you lose your concentration (as if you were casting a concentration spell), each hostile creature that starts its turn in this aura must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be charmed (if you chose awe) or frightened (if you chose fear) until the aura ends. The DC equals 8 + your proficiency modifier + your charisma bonus. A creature that succeeds on this saving throw is immune to your aura for 24 hours. Once you have used this ability, you must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.


1. Bite, it's all right but nothing really that lends itself to being all that useful. Basically all you have is a cheap monk weapon that does piercing damage.
2. The advantage abilities are decent but you can't help but feel that this is basically only helping them to do mundane things better when they have wings. I don't know, it just seems antithetical to me.
3. The first ability of significance while effective I don't think that is how buffets work. I also think maybe this could be an opportunity to bring in something really unique like maybe difficult terrain or obscurity?
4. A little late, but it is flight, even if it is slow.
5. Copy of an ability that was already too late, though in this case it isn't redundant and taking up spells. So, it actually is a little better here.
While there is some Dragon flavor here it doesn't really come together to make something unique. Maybe experiment with different names to give you better focus on what you want this to do.

Grey Watcher
2014-10-17, 06:47 AM
1. Bite, it's all right but nothing really that lends itself to being all that useful. Basically all you have is a cheap monk weapon that does piercing damage.

Yeah, I was trying to balance between giving them something cool and not overshadowing their weapon. Maybe I will give them the breath weapon instead and just have it scale up somehow if they have it from another source (eg being a Dragonborn).


2. The advantage abilities are decent but you can't help but feel that this is basically only helping them to do mundane things better when they have wings. I don't know, it just seems antithetical to me.

Well, I was comparing it to Remarkable Athlete (Champion), Know Your Enemy + Additional Combat Maneuvers (Battle Master), and War Magic (Eldritch Knight). The theme for level 7 seems to be "boring, but practical", so that's what I went with. Giving advantage in appropriate situations seemed the simplest way to do it.


3. The first ability of significance while effective I don't think that is how buffets work. I also think maybe this could be an opportunity to bring in something really unique like maybe difficult terrain or obscurity?

I'll have to get my hands on the MM and see, but I'm trying to avoid overtly supernatural stuff, like spontaneous terraforming. Still, I think I need to get my hands on the MM so I have more to compare it to.

Maybe this can replace the Bite and something cooler can go here? That'd go with your idea of making this more focused: it'd be all about the wings.


4. A little late, but it is flight, even if it is slow.

Apart from casting the Fly spell, I think the earliest is the BenderWay of the Four Elements Monk at level 11, and even that's just spending ki points to duplicate the spell. The Draconic Origin Sorcerer is the only precedent I could find for a PC getting permanent flight, so I pegged it to the closest level at which Fighters get archetype powers. (The Oath of Vengeance Paladin gets flight via Avenging Angel at 60 ft/round, but it only lasts for a hour, requires a long rest to recharge, AND isn't available until level 20.)


5. Copy of an ability that was already too late, though in this case it isn't redundant and taking up spells. So, it actually is a little better here.

I did like the idea of emulating the dragon's Frightful Presence (or whatever it's called in 5e) and I didn't see a lot of point in reinventing the wheel, so to speak. So yes, I freely admit that, apart from changing the usage requirements, it's pretty much cut and paste from the Sorcerer. :smalltongue:

Amnoriath
2014-10-17, 09:12 AM
Yeah, I was trying to balance between giving them something cool and not overshadowing their weapon. Maybe I will give them the breath weapon instead and just have it scale up somehow if they have it from another source (eg being a Dragonborn).



Well, I was comparing it to Remarkable Athlete (Champion), Know Your Enemy + Additional Combat Maneuvers (Battle Master), and War Magic (Eldritch Knight). The theme for level 7 seems to be "boring, but practical", so that's what I went with. Giving advantage in appropriate situations seemed the simplest way to do it.



I'll have to get my hands on the MM and see, but I'm trying to avoid overtly supernatural stuff, like spontaneous terraforming. Still, I think I need to get my hands on the MM so I have more to compare it to.

Maybe this can replace the Bite and something cooler can go here? That'd go with your idea of making this more focused: it'd be all about the wings.



Apart from casting the Fly spell, I think the earliest is the BenderWay of the Four Elements Monk at level 11, and even that's just spending ki points to duplicate the spell. The Draconic Origin Sorcerer is the only precedent I could find for a PC getting permanent flight, so I pegged it to the closest level at which Fighters get archetype powers. (The Oath of Vengeance Paladin gets flight via Avenging Angel at 60 ft/round, but it only lasts for a hour, requires a long rest to recharge, AND isn't available until level 20.)



1. The problem is though any weapon you have come to rely on in the mid-high levels will be strictly better. A breath weapon will give something different but it won't likely bring anything dynamic.
2. Well, the champion isn't really the standard of excellence. The Battle Master gains an effective feat and a no fail war knowledge capability. I wouldn't say that is boring. Well, the Eldritch Knight while still effective spread out its spell/attack abilities too much. It should have switched with Eldritch Strike and consolidated the war magic abilities at level 10.
3. It wouldn't be terraforming just a temporary dust cloud around you.
4. I understand, we can't control when the archetypes come in.
Still, it doesn't feel all that much of a Fighter Archetype. This feels to racial or a couple of heritage feats(if they have them).