When did monk become OP?!? -.-"

[andysowhat]

So I play with a group of 4. and this is my character. I was raged at the party because my character was so strong and had High single target damage. the 3 others in the party are "diplomancers" and taken things like skill focus in Diplomacy and bluff. and there are 2 rouges who only enable to get 1 sneak attack in total, and the last guy is a sorcerer who thinks that using acid splash is a good idea so he can save spells even tho I gave him an enchanted crossbow. (and he had enough spells to summon a horde of wolfs). and standing still talking for 5 rounds is also really good in mid combat.

GOOOOOD IGNORANT FOOLS DX. blah its so sad leaving campaigns...

Dwarf Monk level 6
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 20
Cha 7

the raw stats are:
str 16
dex 15
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 7

Archetype:
Wall climbing
Monk of the four winds

Feats worth noticing: we got bonus feats from GM at level 1
step up and strike
Improved grapple
Quick Draw
Deflect arrows
Power attack

I also swapped my racial dwarf trait hardy for Spell Resistance. (this was like the most op thing I ever could do)

[ThisIsZen]

From the sounds of it, you may have come to the table with fundamentally different expectations of how the game was going to go than the other players, more than anything. The game you were playing does not sound like it was particularly combat focused, but from the sounds of it that's what you built for and that's what you were expecting. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, tho.

What happened, specifically?

[andysowhat]

From the sounds of it, you may have come to the table with fundamentally different expectations of how the game was going to go than the other players, more than anything. The game you were playing does not sound like it was particularly combat focused, but from the sounds of it that's what you built for and that's what you were expecting. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, tho.

What happened, specifically?

What happend was that we went to a carnival. because we heard there was evil magic there and animal abuse. we found out that there was animal abuse and we took facts and evidence to the guardsfolk. and my party had done some **** in the city so my party diplomancers had really bad reputation (stealing from the lord) and in the city were denied to talk to captains and things like that. I could always talk to the captain. but how am I suppose to diplo a captain with a -3 roll on Diplomacy?!? so then people got mad at me. then they desided we go and kill the carnival-lists "punch first ask questions later". and my sorry state of a monk who followed a lawful->evil warmonger god. Eradicated every single Carnival-list. think I killed around 20 guys and they manage to killed around 5. and they got mad on me because I was actually useful in combat. ^^" after that I got promoted within my church and got appraise from the Lord, and the others just got their name cleared. BTW it was not the DM who raged, it was the other 3 players who did.

[Melcar]

So I play with a group of 4. and this is my character. I was raged at the party because my character was so strong and had High single target damage. the 3 others in the party are "diplomancers" and taken things like skill focus in Diplomacy and bluff. and there are 2 rouges who only enable to get 1 sneak attack in total, and the last guy is a sorcerer who thinks that using acid splash is a good idea so he can save spells even tho I gave him an enchanted crossbow. (and he had enough spells to summon a horde of wolfs). and standing still talking for 5 rounds is also really good in mid combat.

GOOOOOD IGNORANT FOOLS DX. blah its so sad leaving campaigns...

Dwarf Monk level 6
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 20
Cha 7

Archetype:
Wall climbing
Monk of the four winds

Feats worth noticing: we got bonus feats from GM at level 1
step up and strike
Improved grapple
Quick Draw
Deflect arrows
Power attack

I also swapped my racial dwarf trait hardy for Spell Resistance. (this was like the most op thing I ever could do)


You can very diplomatically tell them, that you play a vastly different game, albeit both are called D&D, and tell them, that you do not enjoy the type they are playing. You want the freedom to choose the things that, within the rules allow you to improve your characters combat prowes (if that is indeed what you want), tell them that unless you can do that, you are not interested in playing.

And then just introduce them to this place... that might show them that the game can be played in different ways...

[sideswipe]

bring in a proper diplomancer. unseelie fey half elf is good :smallsmile: marshal 1/cleric 1 (domains that boost charisma and skills)/ half elf paragon 3/ X1

23 in cha (+2 unseelie fey, +1 lvl 4, +2 form half elf 3, ) (+6) (+4 1/day)
+3 half elf bonus to diplomacy
+3 from free skill focus
+6/+8 motivate charisma
9 ranks
+2 Wink brooch 3/day
+3 circlet of persuasion
+2 negotiator
+2 5 ranks sense motive
+2 5 ranks bluff
+2 5 ranks know - nob and roy

= 40/44 by level 6 with a spare level. this isnt even fully optimised

edit - feat complimentary insight to turn the 3 +2 from skill synergy to +3's
6th level as warlock for beguiling influence for +6 more
= 49/53

[andysowhat]

bring in a proper diplomancer. unseelie fey half elf is good :smallsmile: marshal 1/cleric 1 (domains that boost charisma and skills)/ half elf paragon 3/ X1

23 in cha (+2 unseelie fey, +1 lvl 4, +2 form half elf 3, ) (+6) (+4 1/day)
+3 half elf bonus to diplomacy
+3 from free skill focus
+6/+8 motivate charisma
9 ranks
+2 Wink brooch 3/day
+3 circlet of persuasion
+2 negotiator
+2 5 ranks sense motive
+2 5 ranks bluff
+2 5 ranks know - nob and roy

= 40/44 by level 6 with a spare level. this isnt even fully optimised

edit - feat complimentary insight to turn the 3 +2 from skill synergy to +3's
6th level as warlock for beguiling influence for +6 more
= 49/53

xD ahahahaha that beats my -3 :D

[nedz]

Player > Build > Class

It sounds like you outplayed them, well done ! :smallcool:

I wasn't there, but I suspect that this was what annoyed them.

[Mirakk]

Not to sound like a jerk, but how did you even get that stat array? Was this a 60 point buy or something outlandish? I refuse to believe you rolled that.

Maybe they weren't even on the same playing field stat-wise and that exasperated the problem.

[Jacob.Tyr]

Not to sound like a jerk, but how did you even get that stat array? Was this a 60 point buy or something outlandish? I refuse to believe you rolled that.

Maybe they weren't even on the same playing field stat-wise and that exasperated the problem.
I once played with a guy who thought he could use any six stats he rolled at a time, and kept rerolling stats until he got something absurd. He also made a leadership-shenanigans artificer for the game we were in. Oddly, he still managed to be near useless.

Actually, I wish it was only one time that I played with people who thought they could have unlimited rerolls for stats, or HP...

[ericgrau]

Sounds mainly like you optimized more. Regardless of class that made you overshadow the others. Time to help them optimize and/or optimize less yourself. But if they don't want to change their characters then you may have to weaken yours. Don't feel cheated, it's simply hard to have a fun challenging game with differing power. Either the encounter is a cake walk for you or it kills the other players.

[andysowhat]

Not to sound like a jerk, but how did you even get that stat array? Was this a 60 point buy or something outlandish? I refuse to believe you rolled that.

Maybe they weren't even on the same playing field stat-wise and that exasperated the problem.

Right this isnt my Human one... that one had way worse stats :p

its a dwarf however which gives bonuses. and I didnt remove the +con and +str rings from the stats srry.

[Psyren]

Player > Build > Class

This, plus they may have rolled (much) more poorly than you did as well.

[andysowhat]

Sounds mainly like you optimized more. Regardless of class that made you overshadow the others. Time to help them optimize and/or optimize less yourself. But if they don't want to change their characters then you may have to weaken yours. Don't feel cheated, it's simply hard to have a fun challenging game with differing power. Either the encounter is a cake walk for you or it kills the other players.

Well, I thought playing a low tier character was enough. and the only reason I got optimized waz cuz the gm gave me bonus feat. and the others got 5bonus feats, so the others have more feets over me.

[andysowhat]

This, plus they may have rolled (much) more poorly than you did as well.

picking skillfocus Diplomacy and liguistics isn't my fault they still try fighting stuff without diplo out or buy themself free passage.

[Psyren]

picking skillfocus Diplomacy and liguistics isn't my fault they still try fighting stuff without diplo out or buy themself free passage.

Oh, I wasn't saying anything was your fault - just that it sounds like they were playing a different game than you were.

[andysowhat]

Oh, I wasn't saying anything was your fault - just that it sounds like they were playing a different game than you were.

they aren't ^^" they are just not using their skill focus ^^"

[Ryuuk]

The party face got a bad rep within the city that he's working in... that seems akin to a greatsword and plate fighter attacking a rust monster and a wizard misplacing his spellbook. Still, seems like the sorcerer should have been able to talk to the guards at least.

[Ansem]

Any class can be OP depending on the build, but this forum is not the place to gain such knowledge.

[Yael]

Player > Build > Class

I strongly seccond this.

I've built several characters whose paper was used by friends of mine, but even while they "know" what the class do, I may use it better 100% of the time because I am kinda more experienced than most of them.

So, yes.

Player > Build > Class.

[Spore]

The party face got a bad rep within the city that he's working in... that seems akin to a greatsword and plate fighter attacking a rust monster and a wizard misplacing his spellbook. Still, seems like the sorcerer should have been able to talk to the guards at least.

Sooo much this. I have done said things on my careless Cha 10 rogue without social skills. But my actual diplomances are mostly well received.

Also this sounds like your party somewhere went off-track and did some things that were bad. Then the players got pissed that their actions didn't get much positive praise in return and did some more stupid things. This can easily spiral into them not wanting to play anymore. You're just getting vented on. I suggest talking to the DM and you two trying to rebuild the party on a more sensible power level.

Also ask the DM to go a bit easier on them. I know it's hard to get a local lord to support you but maybe the players are used to massive incentive and prices for the equivalent of pressing two buttons to just start a (computer) game. This is how my DM made his first mission for us when we started with three new players:

1) Fixed mission required to go on with the main story: Retrieve an massive McGuffin.
2) Easy target, monitored progress and no actual possibility of dying: We were followed by our hidden ranger trainer
3) Quick rewards: a title (being part of a adventurer's guild), a salary (a MW weapon) and freedom (another mission free to pick up or go to get other jobs)

[Averis Vol]

Were I in your situation, I would just tell them "Look, I have the social grace of a brick to the face, I am a warrior. You can talk circles around me, and without you guys, I wouldn't be able to convince the bartender to give me the key to the outhouse. Fighting is what I do, while you all took the route of the silver tongued diplomat, I chose to punch things, I don't see why you're mad I'm good at it, I don't complain when you [something something good diplomacy] don't complain when I punch more face." I think if you give them a little praise for doing what they're supposed to be good at, and point out that all you really do is fight, they might be a little more amicable to stop complaining when you point these things out.