Is an Evoker wizard balanced? [3.5]

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. I'm wondering, is a dedicated evoker wizard, with perhaps a few spells from other schools balanced with muggles? What tier do you figure they fit into? Thanks, and as always, go nuts.

[Calimehter]

Well, Warmage is (more or less) restricted to blasting Evocation, and is in Tier 4 with all of the other muggles . . . so the answer is probably yes.

Full access to Evocation probably bumps you up a bit. Its been a while since I read Treantmonk's guide, but Evocation had some nice spells (Contingency is the only one I'm remembering off the top of my head, but there were others) that went above and beyond blasting and bumped its utility up quite a bit.

[edit] - and of course, if you are just playing an Evoker for extra slots and are using lots of the choice spells from other schools, then you are still just a Tier 1 Wizard. So the final answer depends on what you mean by playing an Evocation wizard. Do you mean "just blasting", or just Evocation, or Evocation specialization with all other wizard tricks in play?

[Troacctid]

Tier 1, not balanced, and it's not even a debate. A wizard could ban two schools for no benefit at all and still be tier 1.

And evocation is actually a great school. It has contingency and all the awesome force stuff (forcecage, wall of force, resilient sphere, etc).

[Teapot Salty]

Good to know, so if I wanted to balance casting, I should run warmage over wiz/sorcerer?

[JBarca]

Being restricted to even a single list, exclusively, is still above the "muggles."

Evocation is not a terrible school. It is just not the best at blasting, which is why it catches flak (it's ostensibly the blasting school, after all). Evoc can do other things, and do them well (just not better than other schools, usually). It's still Magic, after all.

And Magic>not magic.

[Darkweave31]

Nope, still tier 1 with the potential for a lot of win buttons, unless you can find a way to ban every other school including divination, then they're tier 2 probably. Evocation isn't that terrible if you get outside core, and even in core it has the all-important contingency (I don't believe in shadow craft contingencies :smallamused:). It's when you use it only as a means to lob fireballs at your opponents that it's bad (and even that can be optimized).

[JBarca]

It's when you use it only as a means to lob fireballs at your opponents that it's bad (and even that can be optimized).

Emperor Tippy's "Great Wyrm Red Test" is a good standard.


You are only a good blaster if you can blast a Great Wyrm Red Dragon to death in a single attack that has an at least 80% chance of hitting and dealing the required amount of damage

[OldTrees1]

Yes, an Evoker that only casts Evocations spells that fit the Evocation school would be balanced with Rogues and Fighters. Each spell in addition would imbalance the Evoker more and more.

[The Grue]

Emperor Tippy's "Great Wyrm Red Test" is a good standard.

Not actually familiar with this test, but can I assume it's Exactly What It Says On The Tin?

[OldTrees1]

Not actually familiar with this test, but can I assume it's Exactly What It Says On The Tin?

The minimum optimization for a Blaster at Tippy's table can kill a Great Wyrm Red Dragon within a single turn.(might have even required a single action)

[JBarca]

I actually quoted the entirety (as far as I know, at least) of the test in that post. It just is at the bottom, and so might look like a sig?

It's a single "attack," with an 80% chance of success. The first time I saw him reference it was when describing a Wizard of his that used solely Fireballs. That he was using because he wanted a less powerful character for that campaign, or something like that.

His table frightens me in a way few things do.

[Astralia123]

The minimum optimization for a Blaster at Tippy's table can kill a Great Wyrm Red Dragon within a single turn.(might have even required a single action)

Hmm...I'm pretty new to this board and do you know where I can see this table? It may be worth seeing..

[A_S]

Hmm...I'm pretty new to this board and do you know where I can see this table? It may be worth seeing..
Gaming table (i.e., the games Tippy DM's), not, like, columns and rows table.

[JBarca]

Hmm...I'm pretty new to this board and do you know where I can see this table? It may be worth seeing..

The "table" in question is an IRL one, my friend. Meaning the group of people with whom Emperor Tippy plays DnD. The living, breathing humans (I assume) who play this game we all love and cherish at such a level as to make 900+damage/round, from Fireballs, relatively tame in terms of builds. The group that apparently assumes that the DM can and will throw nigh-impossible challenges at them on a regular basis, and plays the sort of characters that utilize builds that we mere mortals would consider the Highest of Optimization as a means of survival.

[Astralia123]

The "table" in question is an IRL one, my friend. Meaning the group of people with whom Emperor Tippy plays DnD. The living, breathing humans (I assume) who play this game we all love and cherish at such a level as to make 900+damage/round, from Fireballs, relatively tame in terms of builds. The group that apparently assumes that the DM can and will throw nigh-impossible challenges at them on a regular basis, and plays the sort of characters that utilize builds that we mere mortals would consider the Highest of Optimization as a means of survival.

Ahh, I see. I know some such games, but never played in it myself.


Seems every board has its own famous power gamers (some power gamers are famous across multiple boards, though).