Character build optimization

[jabberwocky9]

Any ideas how I can converge a character that is capable to be a martial combatant, spell wielding, divine casting, and roguish? If someone could guide me to build this up to 20th level, I would greatly appreciate it.

I was interested in some classes like warmage/duskblade, arcane trickster/beguiler, favored soul...

Any races accepted except those with level adjustment. I'm not able to use Tomb of Battle.

Also, be kind...just asking for some help.

[Gwendol]

Cleric 20 with the trickery and magic domain?

Or Curmudgeon's rogue-cleric should you want to really get into things:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125748-3-5-Pimp-my-Rogue-Cleric-Gish-Build

[skypse]

Is this on 3.5 or Pathfinder?

[jabberwocky9]

Cleric 20 with the trickery and magic domain?

Or Curmudgeon's rogue-cleric should you want to really get into things:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125748-3-5-Pimp-my-Rogue-Cleric-Gish-Build

Nope, good enough!

[Pilo]

Well, you can take Beguiler as a base class, prestige in Rainbow servant. That covers Divine casting, Arcane casting and rogish.

Otherwise you can use the classic Trap expert Mystic Wildshape (Urban) Ranger Sword of the arcane order. If not versatile enough, prestige into Chameleon.

Build : Trap expert Mystic Wildshape (Urban) Ranger 20 with the Sword of the arcane order feat taken at level 6.

[jabberwocky9]

Well, you can take Beguiler as a base class, prestige in Rainbow servant. That covers Divine casting, Arcane casting and rogish.

Otherwise you can use the classic Trap expert Mystic Wildshape (Urban) Ranger Sword of the arcane order. If not versatile enough, prestige into Chameleon.

Build : Trap expert Mystic Wildshape (Urban) Ranger 20 with the Sword of the arcane order feat taken at level 6.

Looks good, thanks

[WeaselGuy]

How about an Exalted Good Hit and Run Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 4/Cleric 1/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Fist of Raziel 5?
By level 20, looking at a 16 BAB and casting spells as a 13th level Cleric. That's 6th level spells, including (most importantly) Divine Power, bumping your Strength up +6 and giving you full BAB.
You also net 5d6 of sneak attack, but you can double that by sacrificing a 5th level spell slot by level 15.
You have to do quite a lot of cross-class skill purchasing, but being a Human with Able Learner at level 1 should help that out a little, at least saving you on skill points. You need Diplomacy (5), Gather Information (8), Intimidate (7), Knowledge (Religion) (5), Search (4), and Sense Motive (4).

I would take feats somewhere along the lines of the following...
H- Able Learner
1- Servant of the Heavens
3- Weapon Finesse
6- Power Attack
9- Craven
12- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade)
15- Resounding Blow
18- Quell the Profane


I chose Weapon Finesse and Hit and Run fighter, because until you get Divine Power, you'll be mostly Dex based, and this way you can deal a little more damage when flanking your opponents. Craven doesn't really fit thematically, but hey, who's going to argue with +1 damage per level when you sneak attack? Oh, and that Exotic Weapon Proficiency? I love me a finessable greatsword. Don't forget to get Keen on that bad boy to capitalize on Resounding Blow and Quell the Profane.

Those last two feats kinda need a little bit of Charisma to boost the saving throw, but even starting with a 12 in Charisma, by 20 I would assume you have a Belt of Magnificence (+6 to all stats), bringing the DC up to 24, which isn't horrible.

While on the subject of stats, start with an 18 in Dexterity and at least a 13 in Strength. A 16 is all the Wisdom you need and at this point you're starting to suffer from MAD, since you've only got 2+ Int skills and 6 skills to put points into. And nobody likes a +0 in Constitution. I have no idea what the point buy is for these attributes, since my group plays with assigned stat values of 12, 13, 14, 14, 16, 18. I'm just lucky I guess :smallwink:

If you want to talk gear, the aforementioned belt is great (found in the Miniatures Handbook btw, and I believe there was an errata changing the price, but I don't have a citation on that for you). Regalia of the Phoenix is handy too, the cape is one of the best flight items around. A Vest of Resistance (+5) fills that never-used torso slot, and Celestial Armor is +3 silver/gold chainmail with a +8 max dex and a -2 armor check penalty, and is considered light armor. Don't forget that base items can be enhanced, so that bad boy can be upped to a +5 enhancement, combined with it's inherent +5 armor bonus and that potential for +8 from Dexterity, and you're sitting on +18 from just your armor! I almost always take a Ring of Protection (+5) and an Amulet of Natural Armor (+5), netting me an additional +10, so you're sitting pretty on a 38 AC. Fill in the rest of your item slots with Anklets of Translocation (small little dimension door's), a Ring of Invisibility, and all that's left are your arms and hands. As I said before, get Keen on your courtblade (for that 15-20 critical threat range) and a Least Crystal of Return for a feat-less Quick Draw.

So yeah, dunno if this interests you at all, but basically you have a LG Human Holy Bruiser type of character, who lays down the wrath of the heavens from the shadows, and seriously screws up any evil outsiders you might come across. Kind of like Constantine, now that I think about it, but with less of the "damned to hell for attempting suicide" (that'll be my next character to build >.>).

Regalia of the Phoenix - Raptor's Mask is no slouch, giving +5 on spot, immunity to blindness and dazzles. Not that anybody fears dazzle, mind, but. Crown of Flames is +2 charisma, and as such, easily enhanceable, and lets you Fire Shield once a day. Talon Scepter is a +1 flaming light mace that also gives you an unlimited use 30' range 1d6 fire ray. Phoenix Cloak is the big daddy, giving you a fly speed equal to your land speed, with perfect maneuverability. Do not pass this item up. EVER. At only 50,000 GP, it is, as they say, a "steal." If you've got two pieces, you have Resistance 5 vs the first 5 fire attacks per day. Three pieces, you're immune to the first 5 fire attacks, and resistant to the next 5. With all FOUR, if you manage to hit that buffer between -1 and -9 HP, you get hit with a 110 point Heal.

[jabberwocky9]

Thanks for your responses. Glad that I can ask something without having much information to give you and what direction I want to take the character and get responses. All of those are interesting and I will be considering every one of those.

[jabberwocky9]

How about an Exalted Good Hit and Run Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 4/Cleric 1/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Fist of Raziel 5?
By level 20, looking at a 16 BAB and casting spells as a 13th level Cleric. That's 6th level spells, including (most importantly) Divine Power, bumping your Strength up +6 and giving you full BAB.
You also net 5d6 of sneak attack, but you can double that by sacrificing a 5th level spell slot by level 15.
You have to do quite a lot of cross-class skill purchasing, but being a Human with Able Learner at level 1 should help that out a little, at least saving you on skill points. You need Diplomacy (5), Gather Information (8), Intimidate (7), Knowledge (Religion) (5), Search (4), and Sense Motive (4).

I would take feats somewhere along the lines of the following...
H- Able Learner
1- Servant of the Heavens
3- Weapon Finesse
6- Power Attack
9- Craven
12- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Courtblade)
15- Resounding Blow
18- Quell the Profane


I chose Weapon Finesse and Hit and Run fighter, because until you get Divine Power, you'll be mostly Dex based, and this way you can deal a little more damage when flanking your opponents. Craven doesn't really fit thematically, but hey, who's going to argue with +1 damage per level when you sneak attack? Oh, and that Exotic Weapon Proficiency? I love me a finessable greatsword. Don't forget to get Keen on that bad boy to capitalize on Resounding Blow and Quell the Profane.

Those last two feats kinda need a little bit of Charisma to boost the saving throw, but even starting with a 12 in Charisma, by 20 I would assume you have a Belt of Magnificence (+6 to all stats), bringing the DC up to 24, which isn't horrible.

While on the subject of stats, start with an 18 in Dexterity and at least a 13 in Strength. A 16 is all the Wisdom you need and at this point you're starting to suffer from MAD, since you've only got 2+ Int skills and 6 skills to put points into. And nobody likes a +0 in Constitution. I have no idea what the point buy is for these attributes, since my group plays with assigned stat values of 12, 13, 14, 14, 16, 18. I'm just lucky I guess :smallwink:

If you want to talk gear, the aforementioned belt is great (found in the Miniatures Handbook btw, and I believe there was an errata changing the price, but I don't have a citation on that for you). Regalia of the Phoenix is handy too, the cape is one of the best flight items around. A Vest of Resistance (+5) fills that never-used torso slot, and Celestial Armor is +3 silver/gold chainmail with a +8 max dex and a -2 armor check penalty, and is considered light armor. Don't forget that base items can be enhanced, so that bad boy can be upped to a +5 enhancement, combined with it's inherent +5 armor bonus and that potential for +8 from Dexterity, and you're sitting on +18 from just your armor! I almost always take a Ring of Protection (+5) and an Amulet of Natural Armor (+5), netting me an additional +10, so you're sitting pretty on a 38 AC. Fill in the rest of your item slots with Anklets of Translocation (small little dimension door's), a Ring of Invisibility, and all that's left are your arms and hands. As I said before, get Keen on your courtblade (for that 15-20 critical threat range) and a Least Crystal of Return for a feat-less Quick Draw.

So yeah, dunno if this interests you at all, but basically you have a LG Human Holy Bruiser type of character, who lays down the wrath of the heavens from the shadows, and seriously screws up any evil outsiders you might come across. Kind of like Constantine, now that I think about it, but with less of the "damned to hell for attempting suicide" (that'll be my next character to build >.>).

Regalia of the Phoenix - Raptor's Mask is no slouch, giving +5 on spot, immunity to blindness and dazzles. Not that anybody fears dazzle, mind, but. Crown of Flames is +2 charisma, and as such, easily enhanceable, and lets you Fire Shield once a day. Talon Scepter is a +1 flaming light mace that also gives you an unlimited use 30' range 1d6 fire ray. Phoenix Cloak is the big daddy, giving you a fly speed equal to your land speed, with perfect maneuverability. Do not pass this item up. EVER. At only 50,000 GP, it is, as they say, a "steal." If you've got two pieces, you have Resistance 5 vs the first 5 fire attacks per day. Three pieces, you're immune to the first 5 fire attacks, and resistant to the next 5. With all FOUR, if you manage to hit that buffer between -1 and -9 HP, you get hit with a 110 point Heal.

Why that many levels of fighter? Couldn't you use just two levels of Thug(Fighter) and two levels of Martial(Rogue)?

[WeaselGuy]

I'm reading that cleric/rogue gish thread and realizing that about half of my hard work was bumping up my BAB, and forgetting that Divine Power solves that problem for me...

[WeaselGuy]

Why that many levels of fighter? Couldn't you use just two levels of Thug(Fighter) and two levels of Martial(Rogue)?

*cough* yes... yes I could... I was looking at the stub for the Sneak Attack variant fighter, wherein you trade your bonus feats for sneak attack progression, and then I looked at the rogue chart and thought to myself "hmm, lets see, 4 levels of fighter, look at rogue, level 4 rogue, that's 2d6 sneak attack." Although, with complete honesty, you can really just do 4 rogue, netting you more goodies, including ditching trap sense in favor of penetrating strike, allowing you to sneak attack normally un-sneak-attackable baddies for half damage... Was also still stuck in "get more BAB" mode. When really, by level 5 you have either +4 BAB with the fighter/cleric levels, or +3 with rogue/cleric. It really comes down to the Hit and Run Tactics ACF from DotU, sacrificing heavy armor and tower shields in order to add dexterity to damage vs flanked foes.

Edit: Or, 1 level of H&R-SA-T-Fighter, 3 levels of Rogue, then Cleric 1, then into Shadowbane. That gives 3d6 sneak attack, oodles of skill points, as well as trapfinding, evasion, and penetrating strike...

[darksolitaire]

I had this awesome suggestion on using Assassin's Stance, but then I read that you can't use Tome of Battle when I was previewing post :smallsigh:

[WeaselGuy]

I had this awesome suggestion on using Assassin's Stance, but then I read that you can't use Tome of Battle when I was previewing post :smallsigh:

Don't feel too bad, when I first saw the post I was thinking to myself "hmm, seems like doing an RKV would do the trick" then got to the "no ToB" and starting thinking harder lol

[Jeff the Green]

How do you feel about Tome of Magic? You could do Cloistered Cleric 1/Binder 1/Divine Anima Mage 10/Something 8. Binder can do the sneak attack thing and a bit of skill monkeying. Cleric/Incarnate could do the same thing.

[jabberwocky9]

How do you feel about Tome of Magic? You could do Cloistered Cleric 1/Binder 1/Divine Anima Mage 10/Something 8. Binder can do the sneak attack thing and a bit of skill monkeying. Cleric/Incarnate could do the same thing.

Actually I don't know too much about Tome of Magic. I'll look into it. I'm not excited about Cloistered Cleric, well I don't understand too much about that either. What would benefit of taking it, especially one level?

[Troacctid]

Actually I don't know too much about Tome of Magic. I'll look into it. I'm not excited about Cloistered Cleric, well I don't understand too much about that either. What would benefit of taking it, especially one level?

For one level? You get an extra domain, 8 additional skill points, Speak Language and Decipher Script as class skills, bardic knowledge, and 12 additional class spells, at the cost of... 2 HP. That's quite a trade.

[jabberwocky9]

For one level? You get an extra domain, 8 additional skill points, Speak Language and Decipher Script as class skills, bardic knowledge, and 12 additional class spells, at the cost of... 2 HP. That's quite a trade.

Ok...is cloistered cleric f/ Unearthed Arcana? That does sound good! I was just asking, not offending. I'll have to read up on Tome of Magic so thanks!

[Troacctid]

Yes. It's also in the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric)

[Jeff the Green]

Incidentally, for such a character Knowledge Devotion rather than the domain is a very good trade.

[Gwendol]

Yup, that's one of the features of Curmudgeons build.