Eldritch Disciple - Battlefield Control

[Kesnit]

My party has expressed concern about not having a dedicated healer. (The guy who was playing a WIZ/CLC/True Necro changed to Warmage, so the only healing we have is a few wands the Rogue bought.) I don't want to be a dedicated healer, but have been thinking about changing my build. (I'm currently a mid-optimized Psion in a party with 2 low-op Fighters and the aforementioned Rogue and Warmage.) I'm leaning towards Warlock/Cleric/Eldritch Disciple, worshiping a chaotic god so I can take Healing Blast. My focus (on both Warlock and Cleric) is buff/debuff/BFC. ECL of the party is 8.

I've only played Warlock in Neverwinter Nights 2, and never played a Cleric. I also know there is a lot of splat support for Cleric, which is overwhelming me a bit.

1) ED requires 1 level of Warlock and 3 of Cleric. However, the requirement of 8 ranks in Know (religion) means a PC can't meet the pre-reqs until LVL 5. That gives me 1 level to play with, and I am debating between another level of Cleric or Warlock. WAR 2 gives me Detect Magic at will, which could really be handy, and gives me one more level towards getting better invocations. (I'd pick up Lesser Invocations next time we level up.) Cleric 4 gives another caster level. I know the common rule around here is "never lose a caster level," which points to CLC 4, but the idea of having unlimited Detect Magic and better invocations is rather appealing. I'm also concerned about overshadowing the group (again), which I see happening by being Cleric-focused. Suggestions?

2) The party is all Neutral or Evil. Since class requirements put restrictions on my alignment, I'm pretty much stuck being Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil. (Though I could be LE and worship a LN deity.) The DM requires clerics worship a deity. Is there a deity (CG, CN, TN or LN) that gives domains conducive to the role I want to focus on?

3) I've read various Warlock guides, but they tend to focus on "Warlock as blaster" or "Warlock as melee." Neither is what I want to do (though I know the best invocations for what I want come later). I get 2 or 3 (depending on if I take WAR 2 or Cleric 4). I'm leaning towards:

Baleful Utterance - I used to think this was awful until I read what all Shatter can do. Idiot that I am, I had only seen "uh, I can break boxes and chests?" (I will almost certainly take this.)
Eldritch Spear - This one is possible, but unlikely. We're in the middle of a long dungeon crawl that doesn't have a lot of open spaces. I just don't know how often the long-range will come into play.
Dark One's Own Luck - Bonus to saves, changeable when necessary.
Entropic Warding - Defense against ranged could be good, since I'll be at range.
See the Unseen - Darkvision overlaps with the Hellbred racial ability, but this gives me See Invisibility

Thoughts?

4) WRT race, I'm leaning towards Spirit-Scourged Hellbred. The fluff fits, it gets a CHA bonus (for Warlock saving throws and for more TU that can power DMM and Gift of the Divine Patron). The darkvision will help a lot. It has no LA. My other option is Human.

5) (This isn't a question, so much as a comment.) I do not anticipate taking Hellfire Warlock. Really, what it does is boost damage and I am trying to avoid that. One issue I'm having with the Psion is that a lot of the BFC powers also do damage. Since the only thing most of my party can do is deal damage, I feel like I'm stepping on their toes when I, say, drop a wall that blocks enemies AND does 2d6 to everything on the other side.

6) (Another comment) With respect to Cleric spells, my plan is to dive through the books and make myself a "spell book" of buff/debuff/BFC control spells. Those are the ones I'll use to prepare my spells for the day. The idea is not to become a combat monster myself, but to be able to make everyone else better. I'm also debating Cloistered Cleric from UA.

[Troacctid]

Darkness is probably going to be better for you than entropic warding because you can use it to protect other party members as well as yourself. I'm sure the other casters in your party will greatly appreciate a 20% miss chance.

Frightening blast would be the invocation to take if you want an essence or shape invocation. It's a pretty decent debuff and although it doesn't stack on targets that are already shaken, it does stack with other fear effects that come after it. However, if you're not looking to deal damage, you are probably better off not worrying about eldritch essences and just using your Cleric side for battlefield control, with Warlock as utility. Warlocks can do battlefield control, but it comes online a lot later with chilling tentacles and noxious chains and such.

Edit: You could also use Dragonfire Adept instead of Warlock; Entangling Exhalation is that good.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ask your DM if he'll allow Practiced Spellcaster feat to apply for eldritch blast and invocation progression. You already have to lose at least 3 warlock progression to enter ED, and the feat covers up to 4 lost levels, so if he agrees, you'd want the feat anyway and at that point you may as well just go cleric 4 since you'll have the same warlock progression either way anyway.

[Kesnit]

Darkness is probably going to be better for you than entropic warding because you can use it to protect other party members as well as yourself. I'm sure the other casters in your party will greatly appreciate a 20% miss chance.

The only other caster is the Warmage, and he gets into melee. For everyone except me, using Darkness would be a hindrance.


However, if you're not looking to deal damage, you are probably better off not worrying about eldritch essences and just using your Cleric side for battlefield control, with Warlock as utility. Warlocks can do battlefield control, but it comes online a lot later with chilling tentacles and noxious chains and such.

That's kind of what I expected.


Edit: You could also use Dragonfire Adept instead of Warlock; Entangling Exhalation is that good.

Hmm... Not a bad idea. Except, as I read ED, it would advance my DFA invocations, but not anything related to the breath attack. My breath attack would stay ay 1d6, and I'd have (at most) 1 breath effect. (And that's if I take 2 levels of DFA.) As you said, I could take Entangling Exhalation, but that seems a really bad trade-off.


Ask your DM if he'll allow Practiced Spellcaster feat to apply for eldritch blast and invocation progression. You already have to lose at least 3 warlock progression to enter ED, and the feat covers up to 4 lost levels, so if he agrees, you'd want the feat anyway and at that point you may as well just go cleric 4 since you'll have the same warlock progression either way anyway.

Maybe I've always misread Practiced Caster, but I always thought it raised your caster level, but not your ability to cast higher level spells/invocations. So my CL for Warlock would be 8 , but I'd still have the invocations and EB damage of a 4th level Warlock (3 invocations known/2d6 EB damage). Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

[Ellowryn]

Oddly enough, what you can do is go Warlock 5/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 1. Yes you are a little behind on cleric casting for a few levels but with Ur-Priest progression you will catch up and surpass a normal cleric and have 9th level spells by ECL 15. You have to be CN but you still get healing blast.

The creator of Complete Arcane talked later about how he wanted Practiced Spellcaster to scale Eldritch Blast damage but never implemented it (basically scale EB via caster levels rather than class levels). So it is up to the DM to allow that or not.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Maybe I've always misread Practiced Caster, but I always thought it raised your caster level, but not your ability to cast higher level spells/invocations. So my CL for Warlock would be 8 , but I'd still have the invocations and EB damage of a 4th level Warlock (3 invocations known/2d6 EB damage). Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

If Practiced Spellcaster works like you say, it's basically worthless to a warlock, other than for overcoming SR. EB and many invocations don't really care what your CL is. For a warlock, invocations and EB damage is basically to him what CL advancement is to a caster. I guess you could argue you wouldn't gain more invocations known, but the key thing is more getting the advancement so you still have lesser invocations available at 6th HD (and then you can spend feats for more least known anyway). But warlock really isn't nearly as strong as a caster anyway, I don't see the harm...

Anyway, ask the DM, doesn't hurt. Just don't undercut yourself by telling him you think it works as above when you ask. :smallwink:

[Troacctid]

Prestige classes that advance arcane casting improve a Dragonfire Adept's breath weapon damage and save DC. You should ask your DM if something can be worked out for breath effects, since they are supposed to be the DFA's version of eldritch essences and they get fewer invocations known than Warlocks to compensate, but even if that's a no go... well, like I said, Entangling Exhalation is that good.