Help Balancing Parts of a Campaign(Combat, Roleplaying, etc)

[raptor1533]

Some friends and I have wanted to play D&D for a while. We tried a couple times, and it failed for a couple reasons. Only one of us had ever played before, and it was my first time as a DM, since no one else was willing to read all the rulebooks or be DM. Also, we couldn't get in a groove of regular sessions, or everyone soon lost interest. Finally, we started with 4e, which is already unfriendly enough to roleplaying(since everything became a roll, and there was
little room for originality in the rules as written), and with a completely inexperienced group, it was difficult. Now we want to play 5th edition, as the rules look good and it seems a good mix of the simplicity and clean look of 4th and the room for creativity of 3rd and earlier. However, I've been having a little difficulty planning a campaign, because I just can't seem to please everyone. I have 4 players:

Player 1: Player 1 is probably the most difficult player. He is confrontational and quick to be insulted or pick an argument. He doesn't learn the rules, and if the rules go against him, claims I'm just doing it to "be a douche" to him. He often gets angry with the other players for not roleplaying well, but he doesn't either. All his characters are named after references, aka "Eragon Targaryen". His most recent backstory was in fact Deadpool's origin story, and when he plays, he does stuff like say "I rip off the goblins ****", with the claim that it's what his character would do. How do I make clear to him that he needs to take the roleplay a little more seriously and not "break the 4th wall all the time", if everyone is to have fun. Additionally, he complained that when we first played, it was just meaningless fight after meaningless fight, with no story(a valid complaint, but I've gotten better as a DM), but when there is a story he just attempts to kill the NPC's.

Player 2: Player 2 is one of my better players. He wants a good mix of roleplay, exploration/discovery of things, and combat, with maybe a little bit of politics thrown in. However, his backstory and his character are rather cliche(nature loving elf/ranger, and that's it), which I'm fine with, since he hasn't played that much and that's what he wants to do. Player 1, however, does nothing but complain about this, even though his backstory is literally published. Player 2 hasn't had issues with anybody except Player 1, who he thinks needs to roleplay more.

Player 3: Player 3 is ok, and he seems to want the same as Player 2, with a bit more politics and less exploring, although he would be fine with some uncovering of clues or mystery elements. He also takes issue with Player 2's backstory, however, as Player 3's backstory is intricate, reasearched, and thought out(if a little cliche as well).

Player 4: Player 4 is not big on the roleplaying aspect, and his characters haven't had much story, since he's more interested in the combat portion of the game. This isn't in itself a problem, since it doesn't really interfere with the other players, but it makes it difficult to reconcile everyone's interests when playing. Additionally, he is Player 1's younger brother, and they often endup fighting(usually, Player 1 says "I don't want you hanging out with my friends" etc).

I need help making a campaign that will keep everyone happy by having some of what they like, and I need help dealing with Player 1. I won't ask him to leave the game,or even say that he will have to if he doesn't stop causing problems. Anyone have any advice?

Thanks everyone

[Nagalipton]

Brother, I feel your troubles and your pain. I think every DM does. Player 1 (the trouble-maker) seems like "one-of-those-guys." Its difficult to deal with people like that without things getting confrontational. My advice is to start with asking him what he wants out of the game, and to do so while in the presence of the other players. Let him know that you are trying to build an original setting where everyone can have fun, and address his desires to play rip-off characters.

Before you begin, have a character/world building session which will allow everyone as a group to not only pick their characters and form a group, but will also allow you to effectively survey the players and see what all they want in the game. After all, as DMs we are the entertainers of the group.

Finally, if the troublemaker keeps killing NPCs needlessly, try encouraging the other players to out with outrage. I mean, imagine if you were walking along with your friend and he just randomly killed someone working at a gas station. For that matter, have the world react to his violence, and make sure he gets his just desserts. This will not only get a laugh out of everyone else, but the trouble maker will have no one to blame but themselves.

[Freelance GM]

Part of your problem with Player 1 may come from his opinion that it's "Meaningless fight after meaningless fight." Some players who aren't interested in your story can become disruptive just to make it more fun for them. It's still kind of a **** move, but it happens. So, I feel like solving Player 2 and 3's complaint will also rein in Player 1.
Honestly, player 4 might end up being more of a problem, IMO, since his interests conflict with the rest of the group.

Now, *rolls up sleeves* the campaign...

Your players seem to want adventure and exploring, seasoned with politics, and meaningful fights. Let me give you some ideas:

To get this part, you're going to have to do a lot of worldbuilding. If you don't have your own setting, read our benevolent host's Gaming articles if you haven't already, and then poke around in the Worldbuilding threads until Inspiration strikes.

You could use a premade setting, but those aren't quite as fun, IMHO.

You could invite your players to help you do the worldbuilding, but this runs the risks of portraying a player's part of the setting in a way that clashes with their original idea. Still, worldbuilding is a huge task. Help is, well, helpful.

Once you're setting is approaching completion, the adventures will basically write themselves. "Let's do something in location X. Oh, it could involve faction Y! And I can get the players involved because of Background Detail Z!"


Avoid the tendency of Premade Adventures to have wandering monsters and fights that exist just for the sake of XP and loot. You know how that one town you need to visit is always under attack in video games? Yeah, don't do that. Wandering monsters are great, but not for the kind of game your players seem to want.

If meaningless combat was a complaint Player 1 had, then ask yourself how do you make a fight meaningful? The players need to feel invested in it. Something has to be at stake, other than hitpoints, loot, and the world. Perhaps the villains have hostages. Maybe the building they're fighting in is on fire, placing a time limit on the fight. Details like this can make typical fights with the villain's enemies more interesting, and therefore more meaningful.

However, the most dependable method (but also most difficult for you, the DM) to make PC's invested in a fight is recurring villains- characters the PC's can hate, but not kill. Snatch victory from their grasp by having a minor villain escape, then hit them in the face with it when that same villain comes back to haunt them. The main villain isn't ideal for a recurring villain, because if the PC's happen to get lucky, the campaign ends early. So who can you use instead?

Rivals. The Gary to your players' Ash. The Linear Guild to their Order of the Stick. A band of powerful characters- made using the PHB, so that they are equally matched with the players- who are not the main villains of the story, but always manage to appear at the worst time, causing trouble.

Rival characters are fun recurring villains because...

They encourage players to expand their backstories.
Since they're characters made using the PHB, the Rivals are tougher than any Level-appropriate monsters.
Any time they show up is a chance for intense RP and/or a meaningful fight, depending on the circumstance.


Rivals need to be related to the PC's backgrounds to be effective. For example, perhaps the rival to Player 2's Elf Ranger could be a Half-Elf Fighter, and a childhood friend. They had a falling out (preferably involving the Bond from Player 2's Background,) and went their separate ways. Whatever issue it was that destroyed their friendship is still a sensitive topic, and will easily provoke another fight. The Rival doesn't want to kill Player 2's character, out of respect for their old friendship, but it seems like they constantly end up on opposite sides.
This creates a character that Player 2 can despise, but probably won't want to kill. Which is good, because villain escape plans are never fool-proof. Ever. Unless you fudge it, which is frowned upon.


Also, I know what it's like to be the only one in the group who's read the rulebook, and it requires a saintly amount of patience. Pressure your players to at least read the Basic rules, if they won't buy a PHB, but don't get angry at them- even if it's the seventh time that night you've had to tell them what to add to their attack roll.

That's all I got for now. Hopefully, it helps. Good luck with your game, and keep us posted!

[MadGrady]

One of the ways my group has dealt with issues such as this is to set up front, what type of game you are trying to play.

Let me explain:

For our last campaign, my DM stated up front, and made it a requirement, for all players to be some form of good aligned (LG, NG, or CG). Didn't matter, as long as we were good. The intention was to play a high heroics campaign, and for that to really work, all players needed to have some value on innocent life (not just their own).

Now, this might not work for every group (some groups don't like their characters to be forced into an alignment box), but it definitely an approach that I would recommend trying out, ESPECIALLY since you are new to DMing. As you gain confidence in your abilities, and learn tricks of the trade, it becomes easier to lessen the restrictions. As you are a new DM, you would benefit from exerting a bit more control as you learn the art.

If you require all your players to be "good" then it doesn't make sense that the character would just go around ripping heads off. It also allows you to plant hooks that are more story based vs loot based (hopefully alleviating some of the other issues). My paladin is just as motivated, if not more so, to help rid the town of evil for the sake of doing so, not just for coin. Etc etc etc.

Another thing my group does to help unify us as a team, is to have a character building session where each player creates a bond between each of the others.

Example: Margrim the half-orc barbarian has a bond with the halfling rogue because the rogue rescued the barbarian from prison once, and now they are fast friends.

The elf wizard and the dwarf cleric are old friends because of blah blah blah.

The players themselves come up with the bonds, and what this does is it helps everyone have a reason to travel with each other, and everyone has a buy-in in some way in each other's stories.

This also sort of forces the characters to have at least a bullet pointed outline of their character's history (which is sufficient in most cases for a back story). let the details get filled in as the players play and develop their characters.


Finally, if worse comes to worse, you can always just openly talk to each of your players about the frustrations you are having. It is just as equally possible that they have no idea that they are causing these issues. The prior advise about asking openly in the game in front of all I think was a good one. This is cooperative storytelling, and sometimes things get miscommunicated. It happens to all of us. So being open, and non-confrontational is a good thing. That being said, don't be afraid to stick to your guns. You are the DM afterall, and if no one else is willing to step up to the plate, then you are within your rights to stick to a ruling, even if a player feels it's spiteful. There have been times as a DM that I have done this, made a player mad, explained my reasoning, they disagreed, but we moved on. Other times, they see my point and agree.

5e is going to be a system that relies heavliy on DM caviat, so make sure you at least know the rules RAW so you can argue intelligently if needed. If you have questions, make a ruling, stick to it, but say you will research it for next game. Post your question on the forum, and let us help. I have done that numerous times.

[Yagyujubei]

good lord...maybe get a new friend instead of player 1 because he seems like a text book douche lol.

honestly I don't see an easy solution here, because the only REAL solution is tell the guy that he is toxic, make him understand that, and try to find some middle ground for your players, but if player 1 is already the type to take offense easily and is confrontation then that strategy wont end well. At the very least, make sure to have the rules out with you so whenever he claims you're picking on him you can just point it out and be like "sorry bud, that's how the game works". If he's that distrusting you could consider rolling in plain view so he can't complain about rigged rolls or anything either.

but he's the type of person who isn't gonna change unless you really stick it to him and MAKE him.

first as far as roleplaying, it's all in the PHB. make it clear that everyone needs an ORIGINAL character, that has all the facets laid out in the BG section. I personally like to require at least 2 flaws, ideals, and personality traits of my characters, and 1 solo bond, as well as group bonds that are rolled in a similar fashion to Fiasco if you're familiar with the game. (if you're not, you randomly roll to determine a bond, and who it pertains to. you can pair them off or make a bond that is significant to the whole group it's up to you)

after that make sure everyone READS the fluff for their background, and then makes a personalized origin that stays in line with the background they chose. Make sure they answer questions like "How does my character view other people/the world?" "How did my character get to where it is/develop these views" "what does my character hope to accomplish? what is it's endgame?"

This should keep everyone happy as far as RP goes and hopefully draw in player 4's interest. and then my suggestion is to design more involved and fluid combats that allow for fun and interesting RP chances DURING the fights. Things like chase sequences mid fight, hostage situations, or giving out objectives like having to protect/procure something, or capture a certain enemy will allow for RP tactical thinking to decide how to overcome these obstacles and make use of skill checks and the like mid fight.

another cool mechanic is doing time sensitive battles. Not time sensitive in regards to how long a player takes on their turn, but in regards to how many turns have elapsed. Present objectives like having to disable an alarm before x number of turns or reinforcements will come, or having to fight while travelling across a map to get to a gate that is slowly being closed, etc. etc.

if you make your combat more dynamic with RP sprinkled in, you can likely keep players 1-3 happy RP wise while letting player 4 get plenty of the combat he enjoys, while slowly getting eased into thinking from an RP mindset. Try to think of battle with the mind of a movie director or game designer of an MMO. Include cool mechanics and set pieces so it isn't just us vs. them roll dice until someone wins.

[Geoff]

I need help making a campaign that will keep everyone happy by having some of what they like, and I need help dealing with Player 1. I won't ask him to leave the game,or even say that he will have to if he doesn't stop causing problems. Anyone have any advice? If you want to count on 5e to help you out here, you have to play to it's strengths when it comes to player-player and player-DM conflicts (since you clearly have plenty of both). Fortunately for you, 5e's strength in that regard is it puts all the power in the hands of the DM. The rules don't offer a lot of absolutes, almost everything comes down to the DM determining what the PCs can do and what their chance of success is (and that can absolutely be 'none').

Even spells, which are pretty much push-button "this happens" effects often leave lots of room for interpretation and DM fiat. Make yourself comfortable in all that room. Similarly, there's none of 4e's above-board tone or advice in 5e, you don't have to tell a player what a zone or effect does to his character in precise game terms, for instance, nor trust him to track the effects he's suffering and whether he saves (especially since he doesn't necessarily know the DC). Heck, as soon as a DM screen comes out, get one, no need to let the players see what you're rolling, either. Keep them guessing.

All that is very much like it was under old-school D&D, which means you can use the same tactics DMs have used for decades to discipline your players and nip bad behavior in the bud. If a player is disruptive, you can punish him in game with anything from persistent failure in everything he attempts right up to sudden character death.

1st level is a sort of golden opportunity for this sort of conditioning. They're all new to the game, and their characters will be /very/ fragile. You have PCs that are too into combat: when combat proves suicidal a few times in a row, they'll be more amenable to other alternatives. You don't even have to kill them, drop the healer and drop the problem player and they sit out the whole fight - maybe even quite a lot of other things, as they wait that 1d4 hours to wake up at 1 hp. They'll learn to hate the very prospect of combat. After a level or two combat won't be so deadly anymore, but they'll have learned the lesson and avoid combat whenever they can (and you decide when that is or when the fight is just sprung on them).

Out of combat, the ball is almost entirely in your court as the DM, you dole out information and description as you see fit to pull them in the direction you want, and decide success vs failure (vs a roll when the outcome doesn't matter much to your plot). You diced what's actually going on around them (and in response to their actions). Cooperative and contributing players will see their actions succeed and their hunches turn out to be true or at least on the right track, and treasure will include items they can make good use of. Disruptive ones will find their plans fall through, actions fail, and items they get cursed, until they straighten up and fly right.

Magic items are a great carrot to go with all those sticks, too. You're not required to give out any magic items and PCs can't make them. The game is balanced assuming no magic items, so any magic item is a serious boon. Tailor magic items you place to be ideal for your better players, if a bad player claims an obviously-magical item instead, make it cursed, maybe in a way that nips his bad behavior. If he tends to blurt out 4th-wall breaking stuff in character, the item could render him mute. In cases like that an item might even be otherwise beneficial, but for the 'curse' making one kind of disruptive behavior impossible.


Even if a problem player doesn't improve right away, the occasional character death re-setting him to 1st level (with no magic items) will marginalize him so he doesn't have the in-game clout to cause as much trouble.

[raptor1533]

Thanks to all of you for the great ideas. I can see that I could learn a lot from more experienced DM's like you guys, and I'll take note of what you all said.
For now, I'll ask my players to talk to all of them, and then we can figure out what everyone wants, what the players expect of me and each other, and what I expect of them.

[MadGrady]

Thanks to all of you for the great ideas. I can see that I could learn a lot from more experienced DM's like you guys, and I'll take note of what you all said.
For now, I'll ask my players to talk to all of them, and then we can figure out what everyone wants, what the players expect of me and each other, and what I expect of them.

Even us "experienced DM's" have to do this. Open communication with your players is key to having a successful game experience. One last piece of advice is that it's ok to mess up. You're gonna make mistakes (hell we all still do), and it takes a bit to get off your DM training wheels. Don't give up, learn from your mistakes, and remember that the ultimate goal of any game system is to have fun. Each group is different, and what works for us might not work for you. The goal is fun, and if you are continually striving to provide a fun experience (and you are having fun as well - always important) then you succeed.