[E6] Daring Outlaw vs. Arcane Stunt

[DEMON]

So there's a very DM controlled E6 game in the making, with the following limitations:

1. Only up to 2 bases classes and 1 PrC per build.
2. No full casters except Duskblade, Dread Necro and Bard
3. No Dragon Magazine
4. No Psionics, MoI, ToM, nor 3rd party stuff
5. No BoED, no A&EG
6. Eberron stuff upon revision and DM's approval only + no Artificers
7. No flaws (but no-one actually cares that much in E6), traits are okay

Long story short, I know we'll have a Duskblade and I think there's a Warblade, Ranger and Bard in the making and I really want to bring a Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3 to the table.

The premise is rather simple: Trapfinding, Sneak Attack, Evasion, Insightful Strike with some other minor goodies; coupled with realtively good skills and HD

Weapon Finesse is just a bonus feat, but the Trap Sense will obviously be traded for the Penetrating Strike
And then the big decision arises - Daring Outlaw or trading the Grace for the Arcance Stunt ACF (since Daring Outlaw requires Grace +1, these options are, sadly, mutually exculsive)

The former choice would grant me an extra +1d6 SA and +1 dodge bonus, while the latter gives me a single Spell-Like ability (Blur, Expedituous Retreat, Feather Fall, Jump, Spider Climb) a few times a day and, most importantly a caster level.

So the question is, would you rather go for the extras the Daring Outlaw provides you, or would you opt of the Arcane Stunt ACF (if I opt for the latter, Obtain Familiar is a must have (Snake seems like the best option for the build), though I'll probably pass on the Improved Version, since it only allows for a few option - CL of 3).

What SLA would you go for with the Arcane Stunt? Would you grab a familiar, and if so, which one? Does a spellcaster level qualify you for Craft (Alchemy)? What other feats would you choose for this build? Or the other one? Or would you opt for a completely different build with similar role?

Books to check for stuff mentioned - SRD, Complete Warrior, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Dungeonscape, anything else

[Gwendol]

Tough call, but getting blur as an SLA is very good; even without daring outlaw. It also frees up a feat.

[Extra Anchovies]

Practiced Spellcaster could boost your CL. If you can somehow get a base caster level of seven (maybe there's some E6 capstone feat?), you start getting access to some of the really good familiars (Lantern Archon, Winter Wolf, Coure Eladrin, Musteval Guardinal, Beguiler, Imp/Quasit, Pseudodragon, etc).

[DEMON]

If you can somehow get a base caster level of seven (maybe there's some E6 capstone feat?)

Don't know any way to do that. If I did, though, my only dilemma would be to choose one of the many CL7 Improved Familiars :)

[Fouredged Sword]

You can replace the lost sneak attack damage by taking Craven in place of Daring Outlaw. Craven adds +6 damage every time you sneak attack. It hurts your will save though.

Personally, if you are going to NOT get daring outlaw, I would suggest the following.

Rogue 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Assassin 1

This grants some assassin spellcasting (1 spell a day most likely).

Death attack is still good at this level, and it can be a good way to drop a large monster without it being able to attack back. Poison use is also a great addition, as poisons will stay useful and you have lots of unspent wealth in an E6 game. Once you get your base gear you rapidly lose things worth buying.

[DEMON]

I am definitely going to take Craven.

I was considering assassin, as it gives me back to lost 1d6 SA, but it costs me a point in FOR and WILL save, a BAB and, most importantly, the Penetrating Strike.

The spells are a great addition, though, opening up many new options (Craft (Alchemy) + (Poisonmaking), Eternal Wands, Arcane Theives' Tools...).

On the other hand, I'm going for a 10 in CHA, so with 9 ranks in UMD, I will have a 50% chance to activate wands. All E6 character are also just 1 feat away from getting access to Eternal Wands, so I'm considering that, too.

Damn it, decisions, decision...

Edit: Also, what ambush feats would you recommend and would you consider a Versatile Combatant (Drow of the Underdark) a feat worth taking? I like the flavor, but it seem quite underpowered as combat styles go...

[Extra Anchovies]

I am definitely going to take Craven.

I was considering assassin, as it gives me back to lost 1d6 SA, but it costs me a point in FOR and WILL save, a BAB and, most importantly, the Penetrating Strike.

On the other hand, I'm going for a 10 in CHA, so with 9 ranks in UMD, I will have a 50% chance to activate wands. All E6 character are also just 1 feat away from getting access to Eternal Wands, so I'm considering that, too.

What's the one feat?

Also, why does nobody play E6 with fractional BAB/saves?

Regardless, my two bits are: Go with Arcane Stunt and the level of Assassin. One point of BAB doesn't matter too much, since you can pick up Weapon Finesse to boost attack anyways, and saves can be shored up via feats. Also, having magic makes for a more interesting character than not having magic.

[DEMON]

What's the one feat?
Magical Training (PGtF)


Also, why does nobody play E6 with fractional BAB/saves?
IIRC the variant explicitly discourages fractionals.

[Extra Anchovies]

IIRC the variant explicitly discourages fractionals.

Really? The page that I use (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/E6_(3.5e_Sourcebook)) doesn't mention fractional BAB/saves at all.

[DEMON]

You might be right there, must have been a house rule. Or more accurately a rule not allowing the fractional stats house variant rule.

But it seems that E6 does not specifically prohibit fractionals as I was lead to believe.

[Bluydee]

If you want to cast magic, get a level of Chameleon and get 2nd level spells of either cleric or wizard each day.

[DEMON]

If you want to cast magic, get a level of Chameleon and get 2nd level spells of either cleric or wizard each day.

Oh yes, the Chameleon, an excellent class, especially for E6.

Yet absolutely out of the blue unrelated to the discussion at hand :)

Since you can't use aptitude-focused abilities to qualify for anything, Eternal Wands are still out of the question and so is Craft (Alchemy), among other things.

So while you do get great many new options (mostly in the form of spells, but you could, for example also trade your Rogue's trapfinding for something else and use the Stealth focus to get it back whenever needed), you'd also have moved quite away from the original concept.

Also, if you want to use the Divine Focus, you have actively increased your MAD, since you now need WIS of 14 to get any 2nd level Cleric divine spells.

But thank you for the suggestion, nonetheless, the Chameleon is definitely a strong option for a versatile E6 build.

[Bluydee]

You were asking whether to pick Daring Outlaw or Arcane Stunt, so I said what you can do to keep daring outlaw and still keep some magic, with a second level spell and some other spells, as well as being able to choose if you want said spells, or to gain some bonuses to attack and damage, or to be good at stealth and stopping traps. And, by the way, eternal wands can be used by casters with no need to use UMD, even without the spell on the list, and so while in Magic Focus you can use eternal wands for free.

[DEMON]

You were asking whether to pick Daring Outlaw or Arcane Stunt, so I said what you can do to keep daring outlaw and still keep some magic, with a second level spell and some other spells, as well as being able to choose if you want said spells, or to gain some bonuses to attack and damage, or to be good at stealth and stopping traps. And, by the way, eternal wands can be used by casters with no need to use UMD, even without the spell on the list, and so while in Magic Focus you can use eternal wands for free.


You can’t use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option.

This prevents you to use Eternal Wands when using Arcane focus. Otherwise, as I have concurred, the Chameleon is a very solid class for E6 capstone.

Giving up Penetrating strike for 2 levels of arcane and divine spellcasting is most likely a fair trade, too.