Crossbreeding:WARNING may be found unsettling

[Ruethgar]

I have a player who wants to have children. Typically this wouldn't be much of a problem for normal races Male+Female=Baby, and the BoEF has some rules for pregnancy and for what types can breed with what, but the trouble comes in what she is and what she's trying to breed with: A Dragonwrought Kobold(yay can bread with everything) and her pet Velociraptor. What should the resulting creature(s) be? Are there any non-broken rules for combining creatures like this? Homebrew and 3rd party are fine as long as they are balanced.

As a slight aside, if anyone knows of a decent set of genetics rules for non-rolled characters that'd be great too.

Edit: Also note that she did increase the raptor's Int to 8(+1 animal companion HD +5 Wish) before even asking about this. Not much better, still a dragon and a mutant animal, but at least they are both sentient. I encourage you to focus on crunch rather than the thought of the act itself.

[torrasque666]

Half-Dragon Velociraptor?

[Draconi Redfir]

non-mechanically i could see something that (obviously) looks like a hybrid between a kobold and a raptor, wich shouldn't be too hard to picture since they're both scaly reptiles that walk around on two legs and have tails. throw in some kobold facial features with a more curved and hunched posture of the raptor, and you should be good. Make the offspring have either kobold intelligence, or just be on the fence of it, like an int of 3, technically sentient, but only just barely. to compensate the thing would be much bigger and stronger then it's mother, more feirce and wild. the talons and blades of the dragon and the velocoraptor genes would likely mesh well together, giving it natural weapons out the wazoo, bite, claws, tail, maybe even wings.

[Ruethgar]

Half dragon seems a little strong for just a DWK to be able to give, if she had the Draconic template that would be an easy addition, but it lines up poorly with the actual kobold racial traits considering kobolds have penalties in two of the stats it boosts.

Edit: Wings seem a bit much and with three natural attacks already available, I don't see why it would need more(though I may improve the bite one step since it is an overlap with dragons). I guess I could give it the dragonblood subtype at the very least to open the option for other draconic weaponry if she wants to waste the first level feat on something like Dragon Tail or Dragon Wings.

[KingSmitty]

You bred Raptors?

[Jeff the Green]

...you might want to warn about the squick up at the top of the post. :smalleek:

Anyway, it sounds like the Draconic template is exactly what you're looking for.

[torrasque666]

I think she is so preoccupied with whether or not she could that she didn't stop to think if she should.

[Fax Celestis]

My friend suggested you might end up with something like a Deinonychus.

[Extra Anchovies]

Either Draconic Velociraptor or Half-Dragon Velociraptor, depending on how powerful you want the offspring to be. Remember, however, that it would take time for it to mature. What are you statting the Velociraptor as? They weren't actually too big (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Vraptor-scale.png), so even the Monster Manual entry for the Deinonychus would be too much. They'd be Small size at most, unless you're just calling it a velociraptor and making it larger.


You bred Raptors?

:smallbiggrin: This made my day, thank you.

[Raven777]

I think she is so preoccupied with whether or not she could that she didn't stop to think if she should.

This is an appropriate time... FOR SCIENCE!

[Ruethgar]

...you might want to warn about the squick up at the top of the post. :smalleek:

Anyway, it sounds like the Draconic template is exactly what you're looking for.

I appologize that you found it revolting. Now that I am thinking of it apart from crunch I am finding it more-so as well. In her defense at least she pumped his int to near human levels(8) before asking about this. The draconic template would have to be modified to seem applicable coming from a kobold. Considering they get -4 Str and -2 Con it seems hard to believe they could give +2 to both at no penalty and +2 to a third stat in which they get no bonus, everything else seems to go well with it, but 5 natural attacks may be a tad much.

Edit:
Either Draconic Velociraptor or Half-Dragon Velociraptor, depending on how powerful you want the offspring to be. Remember, however, that it would take time for it to mature. What are you statting the Velociraptor as? They weren't actually too big (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Vraptor-scale.png), so even the Monster Manual entry for the Deinonychus would be too much. They'd be Small size at most, unless you're just calling it a velociraptor and making it larger.


Drawing heavily from PF for the dinosaurs considering the much more expansive reserve there and the relatively easy backwards compatibility, so this Velociraptor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/dinosaur/velociraptor). I was going to go for kobold growth since there are rules for them in RotD, could have them advance from raven to eagle then raptor stats with the appropriate movement, natural attack, skill, and special attack alterations.

[Calimehter]

Could you just average the numbers(i.e. father + mother / 2) for each of the six primary stats?

[Ruethgar]

Could you just average the numbers(i.e. father + mother / 2) for each of the six primary stats?

That is just begging for magical abuse. Wish/Tome +5 to all stats, breed with another whose done the same, Magic Jar shuffle into the kid rinse and repeat.

[LTwerewolf]

That is just begging for magical abuse. Wish/Tome +5 to all stats, breed with another whose done the same, Magic Jar shuffle into the kid rinse and repeat.

Easy enough to say base stats. Nonissue.

[Bad Wolf]

In D&D, as strange as some of its inhabitants may be, I thought I'd never hear about a Dragonwrought Kobold trying to get it on with an Awakened Velociraptor. I need t go cry in my shower now.

[torrasque666]

Who said it was Awakened?

Apparently it has been. Would be worse if it wasn't.

[Spore]

In D&D, as strange as some of its inhabitants may be, I thought I'd never hear about a Dragonwrought Kobold trying to get it on with an Awakened Velociraptor. I need a cold shower now.

You realize that "I need a cold shower." is said after you find something arousing...

For results I would generally go for fire breathing raptors or kobolds with sharp claws and pounce.

[Bad Wolf]

You realize that "I need a cold shower." is said after you find something arousing...

For results I would generally go for fire breathing raptors or kobolds with sharp claws and pounce.

I have no idea what you're talking about and I did not just edit my post.

[Jeff the Green]

I appologize that you found it revolting. Now that I am thinking of it apart from crunch I am finding it more-so as well. In her defense at least she pumped his int to near human levels(8) before asking about this.

Oh, okay, much less squick knowing that.

[Red Fel]

I think "draconic" of some flavor is basically the only way to go about it. There are only a handful of species that are basically genetically compatible with more or less everything (pretty much just humans, dragons, outsiders, and other humans), and neither kobolds nor animals make the short list. As such, you'd have to treat the kobold as a dragon (which you can do, thanks Dragonwrought!), which allows the offspring to be treated as offspring of an animal and a dragon. Disturbing though it might be, according to D&D genetics, it works.

Basically, a velociraptor (because that's what one parent is) with some sort of draconic or half-dragon or dragon-blooded template (because the other parent has to be a dragon for this to work). No need to cobble together bits and pieces; just use an existing template. With regard to specific templates, two that have been mentioned are Draconic and Half-Dragon. Technically, Half-Dragon is the correct template, as one parent is a dragon and the other is not. Draconic, while it has a lower LA, is really intended for creatures with distant dragon ancestry. On the other hand, despite being treated like a dragon, the kobold isn't a proper dragon, and certainly the kid shouldn't be able to overpower both parents; Draconic is, in a sense, more appropriate for a weaker, watered-down dragon-spawn.

Note that, as it is a templated velociraptor rather than a kobold, it would be an animal or magical beast, rather than a humanoid (unless its template changes its type to dragon). This isn't a little kobold with dragon and dinosaur traits, it's a little dino with dragony bits.

As an aside, I seriously hope the PC is taking an in-character hiatus during her term. At least during the third trimester, or whatever the equivalent is for disturbing little draconic lizard-people. Adventuring isn't exactly conducive to childbearing.

[Ruethgar]

Draconic velociraptor it is I suppose.


SNIP
As an aside, I seriously hope the PC is taking an in-character hiatus during her term. At least during the third trimester, or whatever the equivalent is for disturbing little draconic lizard-people. Adventuring isn't exactly conducive to childbearing.

The pregnancy penalties are fairly minor obstacles for a druid to overcome, and even so I'm not really sure a kobold should take them considering they only carry the egg internally for up to 2 weeks. She took the Body Pouch feat on her animal companion and I think is planning on making the father carry the egg(s) for the requisite 60 days of incubation and just not use him in combat much/at all.

As far as the babies... I'm giving them raven ability scores and HD until 18 months, then eagle til 5 years(if it goes that long). She can deal with them in combat if she wants, may grant her the rage effect if one of them gets put in danger. "What do you mean I can't cast spells?!" lol If she buffs them up, they might be fine, they do have evasion at least.

[Calimehter]

That is just begging for magical abuse. Wish/Tome +5 to all stats, breed with another whose done the same, Magic Jar shuffle into the kid rinse and repeat.

Well, assuming you don't restrict it to base stats, its tough to begrudge some above-average offspring to any parent rich and/or powerful enough to afford that sort of power. Especially to those who are able to do that multiple times over multiple generations. They are pretty much all-but-demigods at that point, anyway, and could be abusing the world in just about any way they can imagine. :smallbiggrin:

[atemu1234]

I'm partial to Encyclopaedia Arcane Crossbreeding, myself.

[nedz]

IDK but, shouldn't this involve a clutch of eggs ? Maybe 100 ?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Draconic velociraptor it is I suppose.



The pregnancy penalties are fairly minor obstacles for a druid to overcome, and even so I'm not really sure a kobold should take them considering they only carry the egg internally for up to 2 weeks. She took the Body Pouch feat on her animal companion and I think is planning on making the father carry the egg(s) for the requisite 60 days of incubation and just not use him in combat much/at all.

As far as the babies... I'm giving them raven ability scores and HD until 18 months, then eagle til 5 years(if it goes that long). She can deal with them in combat if she wants, may grant her the rage effect if one of them gets put in danger. "What do you mean I can't cast spells?!" lol If she buffs them up, they might be fine, they do have evasion at least.

If your using BoEF and she's a Druid, remind her what happens when some is preggers and undergoes a shapeshift of some kind (Hint: it involves dead babies). I know its only for 2 weeks, but its two weeks of no Wildshaping or Shapechange if she's that high.

[Ruethgar]

She is aware of the lack of shapeshifting. And being that she is a kobold she only gets one egg with a 10% chance of a second, not a clutch of 100.

[nedz]

She is aware of the lack of shapeshifting. And being that she is a kobold she only gets one egg with a 10% chance of a second, not a clutch of 100.

The rules cover this ? :smallconfused: :smalleek:

1-100 would be funnier though.:smallamused:

[Fax Celestis]

The rules cover this ? :smallconfused: :smalleek:

1-100 would be funnier though.:smallamused:

BoEF has many uses.

[atemu1234]

As much as I love templates, maybe you should make this using crossbreeding from other sources. Consider this; the average intelligence score for a Raptor is 2, a Kobold, 10. This means the children are somewhere in between (probably 6), which is a -4 penalty. Give me a bit, I'll come up with some stats and post them here.

[Fax Celestis]

Actually, you could push Kobold or Velociraptor through the metatemplate in Goodman Games' Book of Templates and come up with a half- version of either.

[Heliomance]

BoEF has many uses.

As I hear it, everything in that book can be described by the following:

Tasteful.
Well balanced.
Useful in an actual game.


Pick two.

[Magesmiley]

Might I suggest the Crossbreeding: Flesh and Blood book that Mongoose put out for d20. I think that it would probably deal with this case reasonably well.

[Fax Celestis]

As I hear it, everything in that book can be described by the following:

Tasteful.
Well balanced.
Useful in an actual game.


Pick two.
By and large true, but then there are things like power word: orgasm…

[Heliomance]

By and large true, but then there are things like power word: orgasm…

I thought that one was from Nymphology: Blue Magic.

[Nightraiderx]

Gonna throw this out there, but have you considered using a dragon-blooded lizardfolk racial variant?

It just seemed amusing that some of the stats from there kind of make sense between the two.

[Ionbound]

BoEF has many uses.

Can I quote this?

[Fax Celestis]

Can I quote this?

Feel free! :smallbiggrin:

[Fax Celestis]

I thought that one was from Nymphology: Blue Magic.

Oh yeah, it is. I'm thinking of mass orgasmic vibrations.

[WolfLordBran]

By and large true, but then there are things like power word: orgasm…

Hey! I found an actual use for that spell! So what if it involved me getting someone disgraced by having a rather... "spiritual" moment in a cathedral on a holy day. :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

She gets a Kobold with some minor velociraptor traits.

[Ruethgar]

Actually the 110% chance egg rule on kobold procreation come from RotD, not BoEF. Dragon-blooded lizardfolk lack a lot of the fantastic abilities of velociraptors and currently I am still more partial to just the draconic template for ease. Really wish I had that awakened animals book, because I just know she is going to want to give them class levels at some point. The Book of Templates Half-Template grants very little unless I grant the full dragon type to the babies. I can't find the mongoose crossbreeding book with a quick search, but if it is anything like their other material it would be horrendously abusable.

Edit: Half DWK Template
Size and Type: Size goes one step toward small. Gains the Dragonblood subtype. Animals and vermin become magical beasts otherwise unchanged.
Attacks: Gains two primary claw attacks and one secondary bite attack(small 1d3, medium 1d4, large 1d6).
Special Qualities: Kobold Blood, Slight Build
Abilities: -2 Str, +2 Dex
CR: +1
LA: +0



Breeds
Normal
Quarter
Half
Full


Normal
No Change
No Change
Dragonblooded
Half Blood


Quarter
No Change
Dragonblooded
Dragonblooded
Half Blood


Half
Dragonblooded
Dragonblooded
Half Blood
Half Blood


Full
Half Blood
Half Blood
Half Blood
Full

[otakumick]

I believe there is a half kobold template in a 3rd party book somewhere, I want to say Deluxe Book of Templates or something like that... use that and give dragonwrought as a bonus feat to the baby? Also, slight build perhaps? *shrugs* so, half kobold velociraptor with int treated as that of a kobold rather than a velociraptor (so no racial modifier rather than being set to animal intelligence) and give the kid kobold like hands rather than paws...(they should still have claws though)... course this is all just brainstorming

[otakumick]

also, baby should likely also have the pathfinder young template while it is a baby... possibly applied more than once and removed incrementally as it ages.

[Phelix-Mu]

Answer:

KYTHONS!

*hehe*

More seriously, anything breeding with a dragon, even one that looks like a kobold, can pretty much come out however, as is shown by the various creatures that are descended from dragons in some manner or other. So consider some unusual stuff:

- Ti-khana kobold

- (Elemental creature matching kobold ancestry) velociraptor

- SPAWN OF TIAMAT! (lol, that would sure be a TWIST!)

- Daelkyr Half-Spawn, but only if you want to up the squick factor (which seems unlikely)

- hehe, draconians from the Dragonlance setting...maybe one of the smaller ones, like baaz or kapak

- KENKU

- Mongrelfolk? Maybe draconic mongrelfolk?

- Spellscale!

- medusa (use the medusa monster class to avoid it being so dangerous right at birth)

But, more rationally, I'd apply draconic to the velociraptor and call it a day. There's enough magic involved, along with the magically fertile dragonblood, that it doesn't need to make perfect sense. Chances are, if the character tried it again, something else would be born.

[darksolitaire]

Might I suggest the Crossbreeding: Flesh and Blood book that Mongoose put out for d20.

Wait wait wait, there's an actual, whole book on Crossbreeding?

Does it include useful, hybrid vigor powered Half Elves which inherit best qualities of Elves and humans instead of failures of both? :smallamused:

[Serin]

Have you considered the Manimal Template from pathfinder?

From the SRD:

Somewhere between human and animal lies the manimal. Some say that these creatures are the abominable results of sorcerous crossbreeding between humans and animals. Others speak of bizarre druidic rites that can give animals human forms.

A manimal is an animal-like creatures with a humanoid shape and intellect. A manimal has two legs to walk upon and two arms with hands that can manipulate tools. Manimals are often mistaken for lycanthropes—more powerful creatures whose origins are lost to time.

Also from the SRD - game stats

Type: The creature's type changes to monstrous humanoid. Recalculate BAB, hit points, saves, and skill points.

Senses: A manimal gains darkvision 60 ft.

Speed: If the creature has a land speed slower than 10 ft. (or no land speed at all), it gains a land speed of 10 ft.

Attacks: The manimal retains all the base creature’s attacks except those that depended on limbs that have turned to legs. Any other natural attacks it has retain the same primary or secondary status they had for the base creature.

Special Attacks: A manimal retains all the base creature's special attacks except rake.

Special Qualities: A manimal retains all the base creature's special qualities and gains those described here.

Amphibious (Ex)

If the base creature was aquatic but did not have the amphibious special quality, the manimal gains it now. An amphibious creature can breathe both air and water equally easily.

Animal Blood (Ex)

A manimal counts both as an animal and a humanoid for the purpose of spells, abilities, and e?ects that specifically a?ect animals. It is allowed a Will save to resist spells and effects that specifically affect animals, even if the effect does not normally allow a Will save. The DC for such a save equals 10 + the spell’s level + caster’s appropriate ability modifier. If the effect is not a spell, the DC is equal to 10 plus 1/2 manimal’s HD plus manimal’s Charisma modifier. Success renders the manimal immune to that particular effect for 24 hours. Awaken animal has no effect on a manimal.

Humanoid Shape (Ex)

If the base creature has wings or a tail, these appendages adjust to ?t the manimal. Of its other limbs, two become legs, and all others become arms. Any creature that does not have enough limbs of the appropriate kind to form at least two legs and two arms simply grows the necessary limbs.

Abilities: Int +8, Cha +2

-------------------------------------------

This is a CR +1 template. In my opinion if you just took a velociraptor and added this template it would accurately represent the result of this crossbreed. Feel free to apply the young template where appropriate.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

Magebred Velociraptor is an option.