Arcane Disciple good?

[Yael]

Not about the feat (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-divine--56/arcane-disciple--92/), but the cleric variant class from Dragon Magazine, issue #311, page 49.

What it gives?
• Bonus feats (as a wizard.)
• At every level, you may chose one arcane spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List that must be of one level lower than the higher spell level you can cast (up to 8th level arcane spells at level 17th), you cast those spells as divine spells and are considered as "in your list".
• Every spell in the Magic Domain is added to the Cleric Spell List and can be prepared as a normal cleric spell can be.

What it takes?
• Reduces the class' HD to d6 (from d8.)
• Takes away Turn Undead.
• In exchange of the Magic Domain spell list added to the Cleric Spell List, domains are taken away.
Thanks to Wacky89 for pointing that last one out.

I know that Turn Undead is such the class feature, but I don't know, it seems pretty good to me, especially because of the addition of sorcerer/wizard spells (that I consider the "best" spell list, IMO.)

What do you think of this?

EDIT: Also, it loses domains, didn't see that because it is only mentioned once but not as a class feature, so no domains either. I think that it loses power (for being extremely OP to just Tier 1).

[Extra Anchovies]

Wow. That is intense. I think we have a winner for "Most Tier One of the Tier One classes" right here. The only downside is that you can't also be cloistered; Turn Undead can be picked up from a number of PrCs (e.g. Sacred Exorcist), after all.

[OldTrees1]

If Cleric wasn't already imbalanced, this would be imbalanced.

It gives a decent benefit at pretty much no cost:
Turn Undead can be regained by a single level of a Prestige Class.
Reduction in HD can be fixed with a single weak feat (Improved Toughness) and they now get Bonus Feats.

That said, if I couldn't trust a player to not go OP with this, they would not be playing a cleric in the first place since they could go OP with cleric. Thus if I can trust a player to not go OP on a cleric, then I would be fine allowing them this variant.

[Wacky89]

it also loses domains, which isnt a little thing

[Gwendol]

it also loses domains, which isnt a little thing

Not for the cost of bonus feats and adding the magic domain spells to the usual repertoire (in addition to one spell per level of level known-1). Domains are chosen mostly for the feat (now available through bonus feats), or a handful of spells of which you can cast one per level per day (unless domain spontaneity). No such restrictions here.

[sideswipe]

are the bonus feat given the same sort of restrictions on metamagic and crafting that the wizard has?

not taking into account multi classing. but taking into account variants.

if so i would personally say this is a fair trade off in ceiling of power.

the floor on the other hand.... you get one less spell per day of each level, lose the equivalent of 2 class given feats/features (domains) and the whole cloistered varient and turn undead and less hit points meaning you need con even more on a MAD class, for a few metamagic feats, a few more spells available that are arcane.
you are less versatile and less tanky for a few metamagic feats.

again this is just looking at the class, there are obvious ways this is way more useful then cleric, with a few multiclassings and other things, but still i believe it is balanced when compared to cleric without broken things being taken into account.

for example, you don't take pun pun into account when you consider the power of paladin variants.

[nedz]

Consider applying this to a Spontaneous Cleric.

You are basically a Sorcerer with the normal Sorcerer like allocation of cleric spells known, plus 3 arcane spells known per spell level, plus Wizard feats and you get to ignore lots of expensive material components because they are now divine spells. Also you have d6 HD, FWIW. Who'd play a Sorcerer ?

[sideswipe]

Who'd play a Sorcerer ?

if you think of it like that then who would ever play anything other than a T1. people play other things because they don't like supreme power and they like the other classes.

and if you do use it you still default back to the problem of "i don't have the spell.... we cant go on" or my favourite, "i don't have the spell..... im 2000 xp away from a level..... how much XP is dave worth?"

[nedz]

if you think of it like that then who would ever play anything other than a T1. people play other things because they don't like supreme power and they like the other classes.

and if you do use it you still default back to the problem of "i don't have the spell.... we cant go on" or my favourite, "i don't have the spell..... im 2000 xp away from a level..... how much XP is dave worth?"

Well both of the builds I listed are T2, I was just trying to find another comparison.