OOTS #427 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[S.ilver]

V is just brilliant! Nice one Giant :P

[Teacher]

Can't wait to read it! BRB.













Whoa! I never saw that coming. Way to go V!

[Timespike]

And Vaarsuvius does it AGAIN! Oh, the awesomeness that is that wizard. Heh heh heh.

[Wooter]

Huh. Didn't think of that one.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

One day, I hope to be able to play a wizard as good as V is. One day...

[Raistlin1040]

Nice! *two thumbs up*

[Swordguy]

Nice. Very, very nice. Amusingly, this mirrors almost exactly what happened in my game about a month ago. Way to read my mind, Giant!

[Quezovercoatl]

that comic is made of win and awsome

[Caledonian]

Since all of the "Mass Stat Increase" spells affect one target/level, we now know that Vaarsuvius must be 13th level.

[Blaznak]

Creative use of spell power!~ Wonderful!!!

[Eldritch Knight]

Brilliant! Very nice.

[shaddy_24]

OK, that is going to cause a LOT of damage. Cool!:cool: :biggrin:

V for the win!

[Professor Tanhauser]

Ok, can we take on vote on whether or not we should kill the first person to say that enlarging people like that would not work due to the square/cube law?

[Swordguy]

Since all of the "Mass Stat Increase" spells affect one target/level, we now know that Vaarsuvius must be 18th level.

13th you mean? There are 13 soldiers, and it's 1 target/level...

[arkwei]

Since all of the "Mass Stat Increase" spells affect one target/level, we now know that Vaarsuvius must be 18th level.



I think you meant 13, since he only enchanted 13. FP!


*Cough* So very easily ninja'd. And so close, too.

[Fus.Weapon 1337]

*splortch!*
*splortch!*
*splortch!*
*splortch!*

Hehehehe...I need to remember that when I play D&D.

[Professor Tanhauser]

BTW, I hope the rest of the order gets to do something sometime.....

[enigma]

Actions speak so much louder than words.

Enigma

[MReav]

More archers would be nice though.

That being said, we finally see some Hobgoblin losses.

[kolmik]

Mage own for teh win. (and I thought my cleric in my regular sunday game was the only one blowing *mass* spells) WOOT

[Alex Knight]

P1: "I can hold that breech with five words."

P2: "I can hold that breech with three words!"

P1: "Liar! Hold that breech!"

P2: "Mass Enlarge Person."

P1: "....I hate you so much."

rofl!

[Shular]

Yes, it IS clever... ...but if Xykon IS with those goblins, then a quick dispel magic will make things uncomfortable for V and Co. Years of gaming have tought me never to depend to much on magic buffs.

[Arya_of_Evern]

I am seriously falling in love with V right now XD

[Earthstar_Fungus]

Squick! Squorch! The sounds of pierced flesh is pleasing to my ears.

[KitsuneChan]

6th panel: "I simply say that is it imperative that..."

Just to nitpick. :smallwink:

Pwnsome follow up to the titanium elementals. Go V!

[Faramir]

"...explanations tend to consumer more time than my plans..."

The boy's learning... :)

[Albonor]

Now THAT's a plan!

[EmeraldFire]

V is constantly amazing me in this battle.

Great work :)

[arkwei]

Yes, it IS clever... ...but if Xykon IS with those goblins, then a quick dispel magic will make things uncomfortable for V and Co. Years of gaming have tought me never to depend to much on magic buffs.


But then there's nothing much V can do; Xykon is, like, several levels over V, and those are high-level spells we are talking about. In that case they are screwed anyways.

[Muscadine]

Hobgoblin skewers anyone? Yum!

[Grey Watcher]

Yes, it IS clever... ...but if Xykon IS with those goblins, then a quick dispel magic will make things uncomfortable for V and Co. Years of gaming have tought me never to depend to much on magic buffs.

True, but we have no indication that V has noticed any of the Xykon's, much less the one heading straight for him. Of course, since we don't know what capabilities any of the fakes have, V's Wall O' People might just hold anyway.

Personally my favorite part is V's quip as he's rebuilding the wall in the first panel. :smallbiggrin:

[Nebo_]

V is awesome

[Squark]

Clever move on V's part. I wonder how the fake Xykon (presuming the one with the amulet that matches xykon's is the origonal) will handle this?

[Not a Paladin]

Yeah! Go V! See, this is why you always remember to bring a Wizard with you (remember that, it's a useful tip)!

[ref]

V is really da elf!

[Erloas]

Woot, go Floyd reference and hobgoblin-kebobs

[Kanthalion]

Between this one and #424, we have some serious Wizard Pwnage going on here. The rest of the Order will be hard pressed to catch up with him/her.

edit:
Oh, and THAT is why Gunpowder would never catch on in a fantasy setting.

edit2:
I wonder if the guy that threw the scroll back to V is in that group of 13?

[DarthBarbieDoll]

V is just awesome. And I like the hint of "300" that is still present in this scene too. Very nicely done. :smallsmile:

[Hypothetical]

The all time best quote for OotS...

...Oh!

Very nice.

[Pokemaster]

I will never doubt the awesomness of the support wizard ever again.

[MReav]

I'm thinking these troops have Great Cleave.

[Cryo]

Links to the different buffs for those few who, like me, don't know that kind of stuff by heart :)

Potion of Heroism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heroism.htm)
+2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks

Mass Bear's Endurance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsEnduranceMass.htm)
+4 to constitution

Mass Bull's Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrengthMass.htm)
+4 to strength

Mass Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePersonMass.htm)
The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet.


I wonder if it will be enough to keep the hobgoblins at bay...?

[pendrake40]

I think it is safe to say that Vaarsuvius is at least 13th level by the Mass "buff" spells.

What really impresses me about Vaarsuvius (and Burlew's quality of writing :smallcool: ) is how higher level magic-users can make the most of the their wider range of spells rather than just relying on their highest spell-level and most powerful.

As a minor note/question, which Bigby's "Hand" spell is he using to shore up the wall?

[Bakta]

"...explanations tend to consumer more time than my plans..."

The boy's learning... :)

Or Rich didn't have a whole day to write another V explanation splash page.

[Leather_Book_Wizard]

" Truly, it is a poor omen when elves are doing stone masonry."
:biggrin: Hilarious!

V owns yet again!

[Smoke_Rulz]

Mwahaha. XD Excellent comic, Rich. Definitely a fun surprise.

[Tolkien_Freak]

Yeah! Go V!

Ever contradictory to the ideal thinker, V saves the day again with something completely unexpected and totally hilarious. This is one of the few comics I've read in the past few days to really make me laugh out loud. (Not counting the Elan Speech one.)

Again,
GO V!!

EDIT: I'm a bit surprised the goblins don't seem more scared.

[Paramajic]

It is a sad day when it falls to an elf to do stonemasonary.
But :vaarsuvius: and Pink Floyd FTW this round.

[Gorbash Kazdar]

Hobgoblin skewers anyone? Yum!

Woot, go Floyd reference and hobgoblin-kebobs
I had the same thought... hobgoblin kebobs. Hobkebobs? Hm, there's a homebrew monster in there somewhere...

[Kesnit]

YES!!! That was priceless! I loved how the General was calling for more troops, then realized there was no need.

V is the greatest.

[Nupo]

I think V just gained some respect from the General. Maybe next time he will trust him/her.

[Nogard]

Yeah... so... V rocks ^_^

[Evil_Pacifist]

Nice. I almost feel sorry for those hobgoblins...

[bluish_wolf]

And they say spears are useless in D&D.

Not that will matter much. I mean, Redcloak has catapults and I would assume they brought actual ammo in addition to the elementals. That breach isn't going to hold very long.

[mdvk1012]

"...explanations tend to consumer more time than my plans..."Also my favorite quote from the strip.

And we may know that V is at least 13th level, be he/she could be higher. Didn't V only purchase 13 Heroism potions, which is why he/she only selected 13 soldiers to buff.

[Mr Teufel]

The Giant has put a lot of thought into his war. I can't wait to see what happens next.

And the characterisation is both spot-on and funny. Great writing and great planning.

Great comic.

[Dalmarric]

Go V! You da man! Or woman! Or whatever ...

[Tobimaro]

"...Oh."

Never were better words spoken. :vaarsuvius: is certainly doing a good job of holding Xykon's army at bay.

Loved the first panel, especially with my high-level LG PC being a dwarf cleric. :smalltongue: "...elves are doing stonemasonry." :smallsmile:

[Solarious]

Ahhh, magic. It's telling that a pair of of 'mass' versions of 2nd level spells doesn't really improve the captain's expectations that they'll make much of a difference, but that a 'mass' version of a 1st level spell does. A size catagory improvement to weapon damage and greatly improved reach is indeed more powerful than +2 hit/damage and +20 hit points. It doesn't help that the Mass Enlarge Person lasts as long as Mass X Endurance/Strength.

The moral of the story?

Nothing we didn't know already.

[JetTheOne]

Anybody know about time constraints per the spells that V dished out?

[asqwasqw]

Wizard skills! Good planning by V.

[Blackdrop]

V rocks. I tend not to use buffs in combat since they can be dispeled rather easily. And cause any battle in which buffs are really needed usually means we attacked something to strong for us to handle and thus leaves less room for Combat Spells and Running Away spells

[The Extinguisher]

Pink Floyd reference = awesome

[Nupo]

I hate to pick nits, but enlarge person only doubles your height. I think the Giant over did it a little, but I still love it.

[Behold_the_Void]

Very nice use of spells.

[Xenon]

awesome. but, i kinda have to wonder if those were the best availible spells... a few fireballs would do a real number on enemy troops, especialy if dice used are greater than enemy hp. guess it depends on duration...

[IronMouse]

I think it is safe to say that Vaarsuvius is at least 13th level by the Mass "buff" spells.

What really impresses me about Vaarsuvius (and Burlew's quality of writing :smallcool: ) is how higher level magic-users can make the most of the their wider range of spells rather than just relying on their highest spell-level and most powerful.

As a minor note/question, which Bigby's "Hand" spell is he using to shore up the wall?

Bigby's Helping Hand :smallbiggrin:

[team56th]

I think that even Giant himself likes V a lot.
If he does not he cannot glorify s/he like this.
V is just freakin' brilliant. Who would hate V I mean. V is soooo perfect and cool.

[originalpimp]

But then there's nothing much V can do; Xykon is, like, several levels over V, and those are high-level spells we are talking about. In that case they are screwed anyways.

Yes, but I highly doubt that Xykon's bloodthirsty warrior triplet has as much power as the original, especially since it's a warrior. It's pretty much narrowed down to one of the other two being the real Xykon because the warrior one just obviously isn't. So I think V and the "Super Troops" will be okay, I'm actually more worried about the others. Which is funny since V's that one that's outnumbered XD.

[MadHatter]

V kicked some serious ass!

*Takes notes for his next wizard character*

Looking forward to the continuation!
My hats off to the Giant and Rich!

[malagigi]

That elf is even sharper than his ears.

[Nupo]

All three spells last one minute per level so they will have 130 rounds to make hobgoblin kababs.

I think Elan's flair for the dramatic is rubbing off on V. Even though the enlarge person spell last just as long as the other two V waited untill the last second to cast it.

[silvadel]

V.......V
.V.....V.
..V...V.
...V.V...
....V.....

Elf wizard sets new record for outstanding performance in the defense of a castle wall.

[Mad Scientist]

Hurray for hobgoblin shishkababs!

[Kinneus]

I love V. He's been rocking pretty darn hard lately.
Wizards bring the pain! Hoo-rah!

[Galathir]

Great comic! Now V has even more reason for being my favorite character. Keep up the good work Giant.

[Tordek]

V cast it last because if she had done it earlier the hobgobs would've called off their charge and attacked elsewhere. Spring the visible spells last to maintain surprise.

[brionl]

Oh yeah, Vaarsuvius is da' man!

[CockroachTeaParty]

More memories of '300'...

Still, I'm worried V's gonna run out of spells soon, and then it will boil down to who can hold their own: the dug-in soldiers of Azure City or the countless hobgoblin masses...

[Obsidian Blade]

All hail the glory of the arcane arts!
Seriously, this is why I love playing magic-wielding characters.

Hope the duration of the spells don't expend themselves too soon.

[TigerHunter]

V absolutely OWNS.
Hobgobin shish kabab!

[The Wanderer]

Yet more proof that V is the coolest wizard around.

Rock on, V! :smallbiggrin:

[EvilElitest]

Ok, can we take on vote on whether or not we should kill the first person to say that enlarging people like that would not work due to the square/cube law?
You have my vote.

That is called not wizard not just being blasters. My player should read up on this.
Great plan, V gets some more screen time.
from,
EE

[Radome]

Goblins on a Stick, anyone?

[Pax_Chi]

Very awesome strip. Way to continue the use of smart magic in warfare. I can see that this seige is going to be many things, but its certainly going to be entertaining.

And could someone clarify the Pink Floyd reference?

[MReav]

I think the strip could have been funnier if V somehow managed to get in a line about Red Mushrooms.

[Suraht]

And the wait for finding out what V had in mind was made incredibly worthwhile.

It looks like the super troops managed to get at least one of the higher leveled hobs on his spear...how high a level do you have to have to survive being impaled on a giant spear long enough to look surprised?

Another side note, about how many hobs can each one impale before they have to either slide them all off, or get a new weapon? Granted, there are only four of them shown defending that gap, so maybe they can keep trading out for fresh fighters to take care of it.

[Paramajic]

And could someone clarify the Pink Floyd reference?

The title of the strip is "427 They're Just Another Brick in the Wall"

[fractal]

First, how did Vaarsuvius forget Haste?? What an amazing mass-combat buff! Doesn't last so long, but it would more than double the power of all 13 soldiers, for a mere 3rd level spell!

For those who keep saying how easy the buffs would be to dispel... you're wrong. First, regular Dispel Magic wouldn't dispel all that effectively vs. Vaarsuvius, so Xykon would probably have to use Greater Dispel (a 6th level spell, higher than the buffs Vaarsuvius used).

Xykon then has two options:

If he goes with targeted Dispel, he'll have to aim one at each of the 13 soldiers separately, and even then will only get 85% of that character's buffs (assuming he's at least level 20).

If he goes with area Dispel, the 20 foot radius burst can probably catch about five of the size Large soldiers at a time, since they're spread out in a line. It then Dispels a single spell from each of them, randomly chosen from among the three spells Vaarsuvius cast (meaning it probably doesn't get the Enlarge Person). Therefore, assuming no failed caster level checks (unrealistic, he'll fail at least 15%), Xykon will have to use probably about 9 or so Greater Dispels to take out all of V's buffs using the area method. Furthermore, that wouldn't even hit any of the Heroism effects.

Dispel Magic works nicely when you have one adventurer layered in a dozen buffs, but these Mass spells don't have the same weakness. Xykon will have to settle for just killing them all off, the buff spells aren't going anywhere (Mass Dominate?).

[Elliot Kane]

I think that breach is gonna hold :)

Great use of magic there by V :)

[kpenguin]

Man, I gotta get Enlarge Person into my wizard's spellbook. Way to go V!

[Professor Tanhauser]

Wow, you'd think as useful as a 13 level wizard is, AC would have had one of their own, weren't all their wizards lower level? Or was the drunk who got et by the roc higher? Sure didn't act like it.

[Laman_Stahros]

May I point out that those are pikemen and therefore are probably using longspears. That means they had reach before the Mass Enlarge Person spell and now they really have reach. :smallbiggrin: I love an intelligently played wizard.:smallcool:

[The Wanderer]

It looks like the super troops managed to get at least one of the higher leveled hobs on his spear...how high a level do you have to have to survive being impaled on a giant spear long enough to look surprised?

Not to mention that he had a goatee, a sure sign of being both high ranked and evil.

[Tach13]

If I ever go from playing a rogue to playing a wizard, I'm using V as my guide, lol. I expect the mass fireballing is holding until the hobgoblins appear to be breaking through and the need becomes greater. They aren't unlimited in number, and if V can use other spells first to hold the enemy off, more power to V.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Did someone say that enlarge person only doubled the target's height? I wonder if those potions V had them swig did something about that. (Like I say, I know nuzzink aabout der D unt D, I'm more into traveller.)

But I still love OotS for the wit and the fact it doesn't abuse anyone.

[Fishies]

Bigby's Helping Hand :smallbiggrin:

No; Bigg's Helping Hand!

If he says Bigby he might get sued by Wizards.

[denelian]

i <3 V!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Solmage]

V for president!! :) :) :)

[Jannex]

So, about half a dozen other people have already come up with the "hob-kebab-lin" remark before me, which is to be expected. Awesome strip, though. It's always terribly amusing to see one of the OotS make somebody go, "...Oh." V FTW. :smallbiggrin:

[Aerysil]

Enlarged with reach. Nasty.

Hobgob-kabob, anyone?

V should write a book on stronghold defense.

[Vonriel]

Bwahaha.. Kobold kebabs..

[Amotis]

V is pretty good at this war thing, isn't s/he?

[fractal]

Did someone say that enlarge person only doubled the target's height? I wonder if those potions V had them swig did something about that. (Like I say, I know nuzzink aabout der D unt D, I'm more into traveller.)
It does only double. It seems that The Giant is a bit generous with his size increases. This suggests that Thor's Might is probably just Righteous Might, and Durkon's extreme size increase was only artistic license.

[VariaVespasa]

I think you meant 13, since he only enchanted 13. FP!

Its certainly a strong indication of lvl 13, but its possible that he limited himself to 13 because that was the size of the breach so its not totally conclusive. Do we have any daily spell-use counts that would suggest anything else?

[Sturmjaeger]

Intelligent use of spells to hold the line. Well done, V!

[shaddy_24]

And we may know that V is at least 13th level, be he/she could be higher. Didn't V only purchase 13 Heroism potions, which is why he/she only selected 13 soldiers to buff.

No, s/he bought 27 of them, more than enough to cover the guards.

[Haruki-kun]

You know, it's moments like this one that make me remember just how smart V really is.

GO VAARSUVIUS!!!!!!!!

[TheRani]

First, how did Vaarsuvius forget Haste?? What an amazing mass-combat buff! Doesn't last so long, but it would more than double the power of all 13 soldiers, for a mere 3rd level spell!

Maybe V's waiting until next round to cast Mass Haste. Since the duration is only like 13 rounds or so, V would want to cast it last. You wouldn't want to Haste while the enemy is still far away, because you'd waste rounds waiting for the enemy to reach you.

[fractal]

Its certainly a strong indication of lvl 13, but its possible that he limited himself to 13 because that was the size of the breach so its not totally conclusive. Do we have any daily spell-use counts that would suggest anything else?
If you had extra targets for a buff spell, in a mass combat situation, wouldn't you be sure to cast them on someone? I think we can assume that V. is level 13 (which we believed already).

[Tordek]

In what strip did V buy potions?

[Crystall_Myr]

135 Potionomics (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0135.html)

[Mewtroid]

V is awesome.

Male or female does not matter. V is awesomeness incarnate.

I guess it runs in the species.

[Grimoa]

Nice one!

But I still can't wait to find out about Xykon....

[okpokalypse]

but if Xykon IS with those goblins, then a quick dispel magic will make things uncomfortable for V and Co. Years of gaming have tought me never to depend to much on magic buffs.

If it's just a regular Dispel Magic, it's only got a 35% chance of dropping any effect from a CL 13 Caster. And since it'd have to be an area dispel, it can only Dispel 1 Spell per Target in the Area.

The odds of a Dispel Magic dropping any one Enlarge Person is about 15% considering two L6 Spells (Bear's, Bull's) and L4 Spell (Enlarge). By the Spells description, it affects higher-level spells first.

If it's a Greater Dispel Magic, the % of the Enlarge Dropping actually goes up, as the % chance of a L6 Spell being affected increases, keeping Enlarge Person buffered from the effects.

It's actually a brilliant strategy. As a Wizard (or any buffer), if you're ever stuck buffing large amounts of Melee'rs it always makes sense to have a few higher-level AoE Buffs to act as a Dispel Cushion for the Melee Buffs you don't want your allies to lose.

I do that myself with a Cleric PC of mine. I persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (L5: +3/+3 & Extra Attack) and Blessing of the Righteous (L4: +1d6 Holy Damage per Attack & Weapons are Good Aligned) as primary Melee Buffs. I also give a Heroes Feast (L6) before known large-scale battles to act as an Area Dispelling Buffer (as well as other moderate bonuses), and also do a Mass Spell Resistance (L7) right as the battle starts to be a dual Spell Blocker / Dispel Buffer.

Personally, I think Clerics are even better suited to this than Wizards are :smallsmile:. I'd love to see what Durkon can do, other than the same old Thor's Might. If he's L13 as well, he could be ripping entire chunks of the Army apart with Holy Word, or Immobilizing it with a Control Weather. And he should very well kill the Lich in 2 shots with Bolt of Glory (L6 Spell: 13d12 Damage - No Save) x2.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Anyone else here wondering if V smacked some Metaspell feats on those spells when he was preparing for the day? (Especially ones that, say, improve duration?)

[Quixotic]

Kick. Ass.

[skinkatlarge]

If it's just a regular Dispel Magic, it's only got a 35% chance of dropping any effect from a CL 13 Caster. And since it'd have to be an area dispel, it can only Dispel 1 Spell per Target in the Area.

The odds of a Dispel Magic dropping any one Enlarge Person is about 15% considering two L6 Spells (Bear's, Bull's) and L4 Spell (Enlarge). By the Spells description, it affects higher-level spells first.

If it's a Greater Dispel Magic, the % of the Enlarge Dropping actually goes up, as the % chance of a L6 Spell being affected increases, keeping Enlarge Person buffered from the effects.

It's actually a brilliant strategy. As a Wizard (or any buffer), if you're ever stuck buffing large amounts of Melee'rs it always makes sense to have a few higher-level AoE Buffs to act as a Dispel Cushion for the Melee Buffs you don't want your allies to lose.

I do that myself with a Cleric PC of mine. I persist Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (L5: +3/+3 & Extra Attack) and Blessing of the Righteous (L4: +1d6 Holy Damage per Attack & Weapons are Good Aligned) as primary Melee Buffs. I also give a Heroes Feast (L6) before known large-scale battles to act as an Area Dispelling Buffer (as well as other moderate bonuses), and also do a Mass Spell Resistance (L7) right as the battle starts to be a dual Spell Blocker / Dispel Buffer.

Personally, I think Clerics are even better suited to this than Wizards are :smallsmile:. I'd love to see what Durkon can do, other than the same old Thor's Might. If he's L13 as well, he could be ripping entire chunks of the Army apart with Holy Word, or Immobilizing it with a Control Weather. And he should very well kill the Lich in 2 shots with Bolt of Glory (L6 Spell: 13d12 Damage - No Save) x2.Well, I'm pretty sure Durkon isn't going to take down Xykon in two rounds, but I'm really interested in seeing what he does. I'm a little surprised there's no storm going already...

[Elftist]

V is almost too awesome. I'm worried she's going to get killed. That would be the worst thing ever.

[416365416c]

V is almost too awesome. I'm worried she's going to get killed. That would be the worst thing ever.
It's highly likely that none of the OotS will fall before the end(although one may fall near the end, similar to the group who made the gates) and I really don't think the end is anywhere near. He mentioned two more gates, he has to use them.

And awesome is part of the class description.


Another great comic. I like how it has been a very interesting battle without many mere action scenes (Although the armies haven't really engaged much yet). And it's quite masterful how some humor has been slipped in to a serious event like a battle, without trivializing it.

[Dabble]

Another Great Comic,

I have to admit I did not see that coming. Well That is why I am just reading this somic and not writing it :)

And I must say, Giant is sure setting the bar high for the battles featuring the other members of the Order of the Stick.

[MoelVermillion]

That was freaking awesome, nice work Giant.

[Haedrian]

V 1 - Hobgoblin Army 0

Hooray for V :)

[Mortizal]

Most excellent! *cheers* for V! Giant- you never fail to entertain me with every strip written! Keep'em coming!

[Albion]

One of the best opening lines ever! Immediate laughs.

V owns so much right now that Durkon's Ownage at Cliffport is in serious competition, if not downright shadowed. Yeah baby :smallcool: That elf knows its business. It was fun trying to guess just what V was up to, last panel surprise for me, still. The interaction between the general and V is great.

[oogabooga]

Not to mention that he had a goatee, a sure sign of being both high ranked and evil.
That's not a goatee, that's his hand. Look closer.

[Zaria]

Hey, General, leave those soldiers alone! Heh heh, loved the title.

Wow, that is one heck of an enlarge spell. I almost feel sorry for those hobgoblins. Almost. And by "almost" I mean not at all.

Ah, the power of a spellcaster. V rocks my world. I can't wait to see what she does with the pseudoXycon headed her way. I hope she has some more incredibly awesome spells prepared for his destruction, though I think her repotoire (gods, is that spelled correctly?) might be running low.

[V Junior]

TWO action V pages... 10gp says V's Ultimate Arcane Power is coming up soon...

[Haedrian]

Forseen problem

spell limit?

[Nightclaws]

Really good comic, I didn't expect that, I thought they were gonna push the wall over onto the hobgoblins :D

It would have been funnier if you had Xykon's face at the end, Scared face,
"Unholy Crap"

[happyturtle]

*snicker* *snort*

Loving V's explanation of why there's no time to say 'I'm going to enlarge them' :smallbiggrin:

Go :vaarsuvius:!

[Haruspex]

Truly V is an action wizard as well as a support wizard.

[Sampi]

Ha!

ShishkeHob(goblin)

(Cookie for reference)

[Green Bean]

Well, it looks like that wall is being held (for now...)

[Purple_cloack]

Xykon 0-V 2

Go! :vaarsuvius:, Lose :xykon:
Not the nice trick. But I'm still waiting Evans spiked tentacles of F.I

[CelestialStick]

I haven't posted for a while--I guess because my father just died two weeks ago and I went out of town for a while (is it two weeks already? :smallfrown:)--but I have to say that the strip has been just excellent lately. Identical triplet skeletons, titanium elementals, a price tag on the telescope, and now V's stacking of various buff spells on the troops--it's all been just excellent. Rick, I just couldn't ask for better strips at this time of great grief. Thank you.

[Snake-Aes]

Think a Wizard is that awesome in warfare? Wait till you see a cleric. Seen the cleric owning everything? Wait and see a druid.

You know the power of a grease spell in the breaches' surroundings, right?
Creeping Doom - Control Wind - Soften Earth/Stone \o/
(and i'm not even going too much into the druid spells)

[paddyfool]

For those people worried about V's spell limit, he's admittedly used up a couple of level 6 spells plus some lower level stuff, but assuming he is 13th level or higher he's still got at least one level 7 spell (wonder which one(s) he might have taken? - given his penchant for versatility and messing with the fabric of reality, I wouldn't be surprised by limited wish, although spell turning might be more handy in the anticipation of hostile spellcasting from Xykon and/or Redcloak), plus what one would expect would be a rather large arsenal of scrolls, and a broad repertoire of lower level stuff including multiple further defenses against hostile casting like a few greater dispel magics etc. We haven't seen the last of his casting yet...

[tis_tom]

V is an absolute genius! Man wizards rock!

[The Glitter Ninja]

CelestialStick, I'm sorry to hear about your father. I started reading OOTS about the time my mother was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and it really helped me to have something like this I could always come back to and laugh about. Hope you're doing okay.

[Darkuwa]

retreat, 3 mass spells, feather fall, hand. V's only cast 6 spells, the dismissals were from scrolls so they don't count versus her limit for the day.

[fwiffo]

Maybe Vaarsuvius should be in charge of boosting morale instead of Elan. He certainly seems to be doing heck of a lot better.

And, now, the obligatory Pink Floyd Vaarsuvius tribute.

They don't need fortifications
When V-man is in control
Spells are flying through the air
Xykon, you're about to fall
Hey, Xykon, you're about to fall
After all, you got no balls to face that elf at the wall.
After all, he will stall your lame attack at the wall.

[Fabuloso]

To whomever is pointing out V's limit on spells per day, please remember that every member of the OoTS usually has got many more aces up his sleeve than the average "base" character.

For example, we know from #182 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0182.html) that V has got at least a Ring of Wizardry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#wizardry) III, but could also be a IV version. With V being V, we can expect him to be much more prepared than your average adventurer. Maybe he has got feats that enlarge your daily spell capacity, or items, or whatnots, who knows?

Also, remember that they knew of the upcoming battle for days before, and there are a number of possibilities to overcome daily spell limit, in such a foreseen event.

Last but not least, the base feat for the OoTS character template:
"Plot over Rules". (I know I will be hated for this).

[CelestialStick]

CelestialStick, I'm sorry to hear about your father. I started reading OOTS about the time my mother was diagnosed with a terminal illness, and it really helped me to have something like this I could always come back to and laugh about. Hope you're doing okay.

Thanks, Glitter Ninja. I'm struggling along. I'm very sorry about your mother.

I like Mr. Scruffy too. :smallsmile:

[Raeden]

Love the Pink Floyd reference. Comic is cool too, I love V.

[Threeshades]

Seriously, Vaarsuvius is making me want to play a wizard... or at least a sorcerer.

I almost forgot how cool it is to do stuff like that.

[Romnipotent]

In no way has Durkons ownage in cliffport reduced. Note that Durkon never spent mass amounts of money to own. Nor did he rely on others. Thats a cleric for ya!

Where as V's ownaging is purely based on the "Wizard with willing targets" principle that made 3e pre-eratta Polymorph Other the fun spell it was. A war buffing Wizard has one advantage over any other class, Intelligence, and all it takes is an equally intelligent player (or writer) to make full use of spells, and level 5 pike men. Much amounts of buffing and magic can always help :)
I am guilty of munchkining though, my Elf wizard in 3e had leadership and *troll* follower wood elves... nothing like showing up the dwarf fighter with paper weights. Then it was made illegal and I got my just desserts... but the moral of the story is that smart playing, wizards who aren't plain blatty, and some perfect timing make some brilliant fights.

[Rebarth]

Yes, it IS clever... ...but if Xykon IS with those goblins, then a quick dispel magic will make things uncomfortable for V and Co. Years of gaming have tought me never to depend to much on magic buffs.

It's not Xykon. Why? Because that one is carrying a sword

[warmachine]

Alas, Vaarsuvius is making the strategic mistake of burning too many high level spells too quickly that can be countered by mundane techniques: withdrawing and waiting for the buffs to expire. The buffs last one minute per caster level, so will only last thirteen minutes. This forces the hobgoblins to retreat through archery fire and approach again through archery fire but it's better than facing buffed fighters. Attrition and time wasting favours the humans but Vaarsuvius can't keep this trick going for an hour, let alone all day.

This leaves the question whether the hobgoblins have the brains to do this. Sadly, they do. They are not thick like orcs and their society is organised around the military. They'll have officers who've studied tactics in war college and whose job is to stand back and think about what's going on. In a world where magic is commonplace, spell effects will be well known. The officer in charge will see the enlarged humans and know such effects have limited duration.

Mind you, it is good for morale, which is currently bad, and bad for hobgoblin morale. The humans just need to hold the breach till repairs can start and this might the morale boost they need.

[Horned]

In what strip did V buy potions?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html

I suppose we're not supposed to ask...

[Hart av Srednak]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html

I suppose we're not supposed to ask...

Actually, it was in comic http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html.

EDIT: oh, this was a old question and allready answered. Well.. let this be a correction to Horneds misinformation.

EDIT#2: just to say how great these comics are. Since I've not said it for a while

[Shara_Littlebottom]

Actually, it was in comic http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html.

EDIT: oh, this was a old question and allready answered. Well.. let this be a correction to Horneds misinformation.

Which just goes to show the awesomeness of this comic. I'd have forgotten all about those potions were the writer, good thing I'm not. lol

Re Strategic Mistake (from Warmachine) if the Hobos do withdraw 13 big fellas with a lot of reach could pursue (although they would become huge targets to the archers) for the duration of the spell, potentially kicking a lot of ass.

[Enlong]

I think it is safe to say that Vaarsuvius is at least 13th level by the Mass "buff" spells.

What really impresses me about Vaarsuvius (and Burlew's quality of writing :smallcool: ) is how higher level magic-users can make the most of the their wider range of spells rather than just relying on their highest spell-level and most powerful.

As a minor note/question, which Bigby's "Hand" spell is he using to shore up the wall?
It may even be Mage Hand.

[fractal]

If it's just a regular Dispel Magic, it's only got a 35% chance of dropping any effect from a CL 13 Caster. And since it'd have to be an area dispel, it can only Dispel 1 Spell per Target in the Area.
I already addressed this, actually (on page 3).

The odds of a Dispel Magic dropping any one Enlarge Person is about 15% considering two L6 Spells (Bear's, Bull's) and L4 Spell (Enlarge). By the Spells description, it affects higher-level spells first.
Area Dispel hits spells with the highest caster level first, not the highest spell level. That means the Heroism effects are fairly safe, but there's a 1/3 chance of going after any of V's spells first.

From the SRD:

Area Dispel: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell affects everything within a 20-foot radius.
For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks. The creature's magic items are not affected.

[Adeptus]

It seems V is at his/her best in a war, rather than when adventuring in a band of misfits.

[Aegeus]

Yeah! Buff'n Bash! Wizard Power!
Just watch out for nasty dispels/debuffs

[Blood]

More Vaarsuvius! Yes! And it seems like he's learning, too; he knows that his explanations take longer than his plans! :smallwink:

[Webwalker]

It's not Xykon. Why? Because that one is carrying a sword
Yup. I think that one could be this Hobgoblin (Panel 4 and onward) using some sort of Disguise: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html .

[Deathmachine]

Alas, Vaarsuvius is making the strategic mistake of burning too many high level spells too quickly that can be countered by mundane techniques: withdrawing and waiting for the buffs to expire. The buffs last one minute per caster level, so will only last thirteen minutes. This forces the hobgoblins to retreat through archery fire and approach again through archery fire but it's better than facing buffed fighters. Attrition and time wasting favours the humans but Vaarsuvius can't keep this trick going for an hour, let alone all day.

This leaves the question whether the hobgoblins have the brains to do this. Sadly, they do. They are not thick like orcs and their society is organised around the military. They'll have officers who've studied tactics in war college and whose job is to stand back and think about what's going on. In a world where magic is commonplace, spell effects will be well known. The officer in charge will see the enlarged humans and know such effects have limited duration.

you're forgetting that those hobgoblins have xykon and redcloak in theyre backs, both of whom will kill them instantly when they start to retreat

[Romnipotent]

Just realised that one of the Hobgoblins is skewered and still alive looking quite stressed. :D
Go that tough HobGoblin!

[Romnipotent]

It's not Xykon. Why? Because that one is carrying a sword
And because he's on a zombie dragon flying in from the mountains. #300

[Zephra]

I'm so sad! I can't see the comic. can someone post the picture please?
So I can die in peace?

[bitnine]

And for V's next trick:A readied antimagic field for when an enemy spellcaster brings out the greater dispel magic. Bonuses suppressed, but not dispellable. Move away (bonuses pop back) and ready a move back into range for if they try again.Okay, probably not, but I'd be real impressed if V stepped up like that.
withdrawing and waiting for the buffs to expire.If a portion of the forces do that, it's a actually good thing as a siegebreaking technique to stagger their forces like that. And even a momentary full withdrawal is going to have its own logistical issues in coordination and provide a liability for the sieging forces.

[pendell]

BOOYAH! That's all I can say to today's strip. BOOYAH!

Gooo, V!

And once again we demonstrate the difference between a wargame and D&D! I wonder what the wargamers like Gygax who originally made D&D thought of that ...

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Haelis]

Wow, V rocked there :)
he really is stealing the thunder from the other members of the group. although I want to see Roy do some great cleaving :)

[geez3r]

I love V, s/he's so arrogant, but deserves it so much.

Great comic Giant.

[Kilbia]

Personally, I think Clerics are even better suited to this than Wizards are :smallsmile:. I'd love to see what Durkon can do, other than the same old Thor's Might. If he's L13 as well, he could be ripping entire chunks of the Army apart with Holy Word, or Immobilizing it with a Control Weather. And he should very well kill the Lich in 2 shots with Bolt of Glory (L6 Spell: 13d12 Damage - No Save) x2.

I don't think Bolt of Glory is an option. Strip #32 made it pretty clear that Rich will only be using stuff out of the SRD, and stuff he makes up himself.

[Fingolfin]

Hehehe, that is so true what V. said about his explanations. Loved it all :)

[Suvarov454]

V is almost too awesome. I'm worried she's going to get killed. That would be the worst thing ever.

In a world with Raise Dead, you're worried about V dieing? It would be an inconvenience to lose a level, sure, but (as Belkar said in #286 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0286.html)), Durkon can it like three times a day (which is another indication that the party is APL 12 or 14).

OTOH, the good Mr. Burlew may use Reincarnate instead, just for the comedic effect of turning V into something other than an elf.

[Threeshades]

Yup. I think that one could be this Hobgoblin (Panel 4 and onward) using some sort of Disguise: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0190.html .

None of them are Xykon. Maybe the one still standing by redcloak, but I'm not even sure if he is.
Because: Xykon's not wearing any kind of amulet usually. Those are used by clerics (as redcloak is one) so i think all three Xykons shown are decoys.

And the one walking in the southern division is apparently the "Xykon" shown already in this strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html
Which explains why that one looks so fearful (undead are as far as i know immune to fear) and shows no authority over Redcloak.

Pretty easy, isnt it?

[MReav]

I don't think Bolt of Glory is an option. Strip #32 made it pretty clear that Rich will only be using stuff out of the SRD, and stuff he makes up himself.

Actually, we have mention of Oriental Adventures stuff (between the Samurai class and the Master Samurai Class and those weird undead things), FF6 game mechanics were used by people native to the world, and Zz'dtri was copyright infringing for a good 21 strips before he was dragged away (there was a 22 strip gap between his first appearance and his last, but his first appearance did not have him do anything to warrant copyright infringement). The Giant does what he thinks is funny (and the majority of us will agree with him on that).

[Grungydan]

Totally awesome! I'm loving this battle.

[Zenthar]

:smallbiggrin:
Really good comic, I didn't expect that, I thought they were gonna push the wall over onto the hobgoblins :D

It would have been funnier if you had Xykon's face at the end, Scared face,
"Unholy Crap"

Except, why would Xykon be scared of a low level spell?:smallconfused:

[Talya]

Now to nitpick the mechanics (note that I don't really care, this is just fun.)


Enlarge Person, Mass
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Target: One humanoid creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart

13 soldiers, standing abreast in their own 5' square, are 65' apart at the ends. It's drawn wrong! They'd need to be in three rows...

[Soepvork]

So the commander isn't impressed by the effects of 2nd and 3rd level spells (Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance and Heroism) but a simple 1st level spell (Enlarge Person) does the trick? :P

(Yes, I know the spells cast were the "Mass" versions, but that doesn't really change the effect from the point of view from a single target)

Apart from this small piece of whining, it was another great comic!

[Threeshades]

Now to nitpick the mechanics (note that I don't really care, this is just fun.)



13 soldiers, standing abreast in their own 5' square, are 65' apart at the ends. It's drawn wrong! They'd need to be in three rows...

Maybe theyre not using the square system.

[warmachine]

you're forgetting that those hobgoblins have xykon and redcloak in theyre backs, both of whom will kill them instantly when they start to retreat
Xykon and Redcloak are well out of shouting range and, indeed, most weapon and spell ranges. It is the officer on location who is in charge of the task force and he gives the orders. This assumes, of course, an army with an officer command structure. Considering hobgoblins form an organised, military society, it's a safe bet. Also, assuming the officers haven't been purged in Stalinesque fashion but seeing the general is still alive and troop morale isn't shot to hell, I'm going with the officers still being alive.

Besides, I suspect Redcloak is in charge of the entire battle, rather than Xykon and, though he hates hobgoblins, is patient and levelheaded enough not to pointlessly waste troops. Better to have half a task force than no task force. Neither does he rebuke subordinates who talk back to him.

Mind you, if the gung ho Xykon is in charge, he may think that a determined push will result in fewer casualties than a withdraw and re-attack. Even trained officers can make really dumb decisions, let alone amateurs. However, without accurate intelligence, one cannot rely on this and burning lots of high level spells on the small chance the enemy officer is a gung ho twit is stupid.

It seems more likely that V is going for the morale boost, which will buff more soldiers for longer than his spells and potions ever will. Very clever.

[fizzbang]

I'm thinking these troops have Great Cleave.

Being 5th level (probably Warriors) and Human, they'd have 3 feats. I'm betting they'd have something along the line of Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave - good general choices for combat, and especially good for people using two-handed weapons with reach. Doubly so when you've got comparatively high base attack, bull's strength, and heroism.

Alternately, they may have Combat Reflexes instead of Great Cleave, which'd also be useful for defending with reach, but if they've only got general NPC Warrior stats, there's a good chance their Dex isn't high enough for the extra one or two AoO to be worth it.

Of course, that's discounting a whole wealth of feats from non-core books, but that way lies madness.

Without breaking down the likely stats of the guards, I'm thinking they've got that breach covered. At least, for the next 13 minutes, until V's spells wear off.

[fizzbang]

Wow, you'd think as useful as a 13 level wizard is, AC would have had one of their own, weren't all their wizards lower level? Or was the drunk who got et by the roc higher? Sure didn't act like it.

Well, he was definitely at least 9th level (to cast Teleport), so he was no wizard to scoff at. Which is exactly why he was so frustrated at being ignored as "just an NPC", I'd assume.

I'm sure there are lots of low level wizards/sorcerers and clerics amongst the crowd. But when you've only got a handful of spells a day, a massive war means you go through your usefulness pretty fast.

[ElphabaFanatic]

Yay for the awesomness of V.

[SandroTheMaster]

I don't think Bolt of Glory is an option. Strip #32 made it pretty clear that Rich will only be using stuff out of the SRD, and stuff he makes up himself.

Except that Bolt of Glory does only 1d6 damage by level (not 1d12), it is a ranged touch attack (and, considering Durkon gets close enough to cast, it is dexterity dependent, and Durkon already admitted he has a penalty there) and spellcasters may not have high AC, but it's usually a safe bet that their Touch AC will be as high as their base, opposed to fighters. Also, Xykon possibly have some Inflict potions to heal and probably is buffed against both normal attacks and magic. So no, Bolt of Glory won't drop down Xykon with two uses nor can Durkon use it more than three times, possibly.

Now, V surely may have spent 2 6-level spells unhandy. But he would have, assuming a safe 20 intelligence, and that he is a specialist, that he has 5/7/6/10/6/5/3/2 spells to use (considering the ring of power). His real powerhouse must be the 2 seven. And he does have Power Word, Blind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html) and Disintegrate that could be taken advantage of into the officers. Basically, he cast only a few spells so far (he is now at 4/5/6/10/4/5/1/2, supposing "Bigg's Helping Hand" is 4 but it could be other), so I would say he has quite the repertoire yet. Let's see how this goes.

And finally, I don't think anybody put thought to the fact that the spearmans are with double damage here for "Readied action against charge", with Cleave this could be quite hurting.

[Sethis]

Know what rocks? 20 foot reach, Combat Reflexes, Setting a spear against a charge, and a LOT of targets that provoke AoO's just by moving to you.

V understands this, thus V wins an internet. Maybe two.

V knows what wizards can do. Others must learn. There is more than just explosions in the life of a wizard.

There is also making others able to make even others explode.

That is all.

[Warrax]

*ahem*

BWAAHAHAAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Go V!

[Bilgore]

Know what rocks? 20 foot reach, Combat Reflexes, Setting a spear against a charge, and a LOT of targets that provoke AoO's just by moving to you.

You know what would really rock??

Belkar with the same buffs. :smalltongue:

[lord_khaine]

its just a shame that enlarge person gives a -2 point penalty to dex, thereby reduring the number of aditional attacks of opportunity.
actualy it would have been a better choice to cast mass cats grace

[Axl_Rose]

lol. awesome stuff from V.


That breach isn't going to hold very long.
Go to a dictionary and look up what breach means.

[Zephra]

I'm so sad! I can't see the comic. can someone post the picture please?
So I can die in peace?

:smallfrown: nobody? *cries*

[Tolkien_Freak]

:smallfrown: nobody? *cries*

Here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/QVmdaBSwJ7KVkSvY8U4.gif

[SETI_fan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vaarsuvius ROCKS!

And also, never underestimate a wizard.

Seti

[VenezuelanWiz]

That was a amzing! Great job Giant.

[Gyron]

Poor orange necklace Xykon, He has to do all the hard work.

PS. PURE AWESOMENESS!

[Nightfall]

As a minor note/question, which Bigby's "Hand" spell is he using to shore up the wall?


That would be "Bigby's Constructing Hand". Wait til V uses "Bigby's DEstructing Hand"! :smallwink:

[Baltek Grimm]

MASS ENLARGE PERSON!

Damn... hard times for the bad guys!

Another great one, Giant, thanks again!

[rgoodfellow]

I have just been properly rocked.

[shaddy_24]

I think that breech could hold for quite a while. Those soldiers have great reach, lots of damage, what looks like cleave or great cleave (speeking of which, can you apply that to attacks of opportunity? Cause if so, they can deal even more damage) and it looks like the hobs can't reach over the wall to hit them. The breech is at least 10-15 feet up(the hobs heads don't even come close). The hobs need to climb up to attack the soldiers.

[Skydiving_Ninja]

Sometimes the titles are just as awesome as the actual comics.

This is one of those times (major Floyd fan)

[brian c]

Well played Giant... well played

[kirbsys]

For some reason this comic at the end made me yell ouy F*** yeah! I loved it. BTW I got Origins and it rocks too. Keep up the good work!

[Tokeloshe]

Aren't all of those troops earning experience as they kill those Hobgoblins? And how much experience would each kill give them exactly?

[Greebo]

Aren't all of those troops earning experience as they kill those Hobgoblins? And how much experience would each kill give them exactly?
Does it really matter? They can't tally up the xp until the battle is over, so it wouldn't affect the overall battle outcome anyway...

[otakuryoga]

mmmmmm, yummy
hobgoblinkabobs----just like mama used to make

[Tokeloshe]

Greebo

It depends on whether there is a break in the battle or not, and just how pushy V's player is.

[AyuVince]

Wizards rock!

Roy will have to put in a lot of effort to be half as effective as V. Maybe Durkon can call in another favor from Thor, or Haley gulps a Potion of Haste before using Manyshot.

[Aotrs Commander]

Allow me to quote Hots Shots: Part Deux in an obnoxiously loud voice:

"War! It's Faaan-tastic!"




And once again we demonstrate the difference between a wargame and D&D! I wonder what the wargamers like Gygax who originally made D&D thought of that ...

Keh? You've lost me there...

I'm a wargamer and I'm equally as amused as the rest of you. Good Tactics is good tactics, whatever system you're playing!

[pendell]

Keh? You've lost me there...

I'm a wargamer and I'm equally as amused as the rest of you. Good Tactics is good tactics, whatever system you're playing!


I'm thinking the unique thing in D&D that -- with a few mass buffs -- makes 5th level soldiers equal to N level 0 soldiers, where N is a large number. For a couple rounds, anyway.

The wargames I play (squad leader, for example), quantity has a quality all it's own. Sending 13 soldiers, no matter how buffed, against a company would simply get them wiped out in short order.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[luminasideris]

I am constantly amazed by V's creative use of spells (Crushing Despair, anyone? http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html).

Makes me wish I could play some D&D with the Giant. It would be all kinds of awesome.

[Black_Light83]

Yay for V doing things that only V can:smile:

:vaarsuvius: woot woot woot:vaarsuvius: woot woot woot :vaarsuvius:

[Nevrmore]

Rich? Me love you long time for the Floyd reference.

[Seragon]

I can't help but think, I hope the Giant DM's because it would SUCK so bad to DM when he is in the group. Make a battle plan that will be fun and challenging and then he goes and pulls a trick like this or so many other in his comic and your whole night plans gets wiped out in a few minutes!!! Great Comic Giant, one the great treasures of life is reading OOTS.

[Brettoe]

It's kind of funny how Vaarsuvius Is doing most of the work in the battle so far, first with the elementals, and now this...

and "Truly, it is a poor omen when elves are doing stonemasonry."

[Nightmarenny]

It's kind of funny how Vaarsuvius Is doing most of the work in the battle so far, first with the elementals, and now this...

and "Truly, it is a poor omen when elves are doing stonemasonry."No big. At the rate she's using up spells she'll be out soon. Or at least have to start rationing them.

[Burning Phoenix]

retreat, 3 mass spells, feather fall, hand. V's only cast 6 spells, the dismissals were from scrolls so they don't count versus her limit for the day.
Don't forget Protection from arrows from strip 422, third AC frame.

[factotum]

The wargames I play (squad leader, for example), quantity has a quality all it's own. Sending 13 soldiers, no matter how buffed, against a company would simply get them wiped out in short order.


So in your wargame, sending 13 soldiers with Kevlar armour and sub-machine guns up against a company of naked guys with spears would result in the 13 guys dying? Because if so, its rules need working on. With all those buffs V put on those soldiers I think we're in a pretty similar situation here!

[SolkaTruesilver]

You should read "Heroes of Battle" if you want to experience war into an Ad&D game. It approaches war on a micro-scale, and not a macro.

In short, the approach is: "You could want a game with troop movements, political intrigues between kings, and thousand of troops to manage. But that's not a Role-Playing game, that's a Wargame. A War-Roleplaying game is like playing a squad like "Saving Private Ryan""

In short, the DM has to plan in advance the whole battle, and attribute "victory points" to the PC as they influence the current of battle. Killing ennemy troops at random won't be worth a lot, but if they defeat peticular nasty opponents (a.k.a. Titanium Elemental), reinforce defensive position (ex: a breach in the wall) or disrupt the ennemy's leadership (beating up Redcloak), they can make the difference.

This kind of campaign is a lot of fun to play, 'cause pretty much every people in the party can do something they are cut for, if the DM is a little imaginative (sending the rogue sabotage the catapults, or inpersonate an ennemy officer).

So... we aren't speaking of a wargame where you command thousand of soldiers to win the war. We are speaking of the Stuff of Heroes, where the PCs will make history by acting like Ulysse and Achille.

To conclude: GO ORDER OF THE STICK!!!

[Delgarde]

Love the General's reaction...

"... Oh."

[Shades of Gray]

SPOILER



Um... is anyone thinking that NONE of the Xycon's are real. why you ask? Does anyone remember, oh i don't know, THAT GIANT ZOMBIE DRAGON HE WAS RIDING IN STRIP #300. Things like those don't just dissapear. He will probably use ghostform and sneak in or something

[factotum]

If you think that's really a spoiler you might want to use spoiler tags on it...

Anyway, he was riding an undead dragon in #300. He hasn't been seen riding it since, in any number of strips he's appeared in where he's definitely been the "real" Xykon, so why should the fact none of the three Xykons are riding it mean none can be real?

[Threeshades]

SPOILER



Um... is anyone thinking that NONE of the Xycon's are real. why you ask? Does anyone remember, oh i don't know, THAT GIANT ZOMBIE DRAGON HE WAS RIDING IN STRIP #300. Things like those don't just dissapear. He will probably use ghostform and sneak in or something

As i already said. But i dont think the zombie dragon is the indicator for it. I look at those amulets. Xykon usually doesnt wear any.

Here my old post (that apparently has been successfully ignored):
None of them are Xykon. Maybe the one still standing by redcloak, but I'm not even sure if he is.
Because: Xykon's not wearing any kind of amulet usually. Those are used by clerics (as redcloak is one) so i think all three Xykons shown are decoys.

And the one walking in the southern division is apparently the "Xykon" shown already in this strip:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html
Which explains why that one looks so fearful (undead are as far as i know immune to fear) and shows no authority over Redcloak.

Pretty easy, isnt it?

[Fox]

The moment of glory of Vaarsuvius.

[fluffybunny]

V getting things done his/her way and Belkar's not there to mess it up... Things are looking grim people...

[Loth]

'I simply say that IS IT imperative . . . '

Just FYI

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Great comic Rich; as always.

Vaarsuvius is owning this battle. It's been too long since she totally owned something (much like the black dragon from #186). She probably got herself a Hand of Glory and threw one of her many Rings of Wizardry on it for bonus spells. That and she has a high INT, that makes it easier. We know that it is at least 18. That was confirmed during the "squid thingy" arc. Barring any enhancement bonuses to INT, I would guesstimate her INT to be 21 (3 stat increases from leveling). If the headband she wears is a Headband of Intelligence, then it could be even more, depending on how much she spent on it. Prbably a +2 or +4 at her level.

Either way.. Vaarsuvius's bada$$ness has further confirmed the fact that Wizards are cool. :smallcool:

[Fabio_MP]

hehehehehehehe
another classic :)

[Nightmarenny]

Great comic Rich; as always.

Vaarsuvius is owning this battle. It's been too long since she totally owned something (much like the black dragon from #186). She probably got herself a Hand of Glory and threw one of her many Rings of Wizardry on it for bonus spells. That and she has a high INT, that makes it easier. We know that it is at least 18. That was confirmed during the "squid thingy" arc. Barring any enhancement bonuses to INT, I would guesstimate her INT to be 21 (3 stat increases from leveling). If the headband she wears is a Headband of Intelligence, then it could be even more, depending on how much she spent on it. Prbably a +2 or +4 at her level.

Either way.. Vaarsuvius's bada$$ness has further confirmed the fact that Wizards are cool. :smallcool:You think she went up 12 levels?

[Tarx]

My opinion is thus: the Xykon near Redcloak and the MITD is real because he's acted like Xykon has always acted...the other two are just magically disguised by use of their respective amulets. The reasoning for him having an amulet may be for him to assert some sort of control over the decoys, maybe, but I think this explanation holds more water than the "three Xykon personalities" theory and the "all three are fakes" theory (If all three were fakes, I'd expect them to all act either entirely like Xykon, or nothing like Xykon, and not some odd mixture of the two).

[Nightfall]

Vaarsuvius absolutely rocks!

[Vargtass]

That and she has a high INT, that makes it easier. We know that it is at least 18. That was confirmed during the "squid thingy" arc. Barring any enhancement bonuses to INT, I would guesstimate her INT to be 21 (3 stat increases from leveling). If the headband she wears is a Headband of Intelligence, then it could be even more, depending on how much she spent on it. Prbably a +2 or +4 at her level.

Either way.. Vaarsuvius's bada$$ness has further confirmed the fact that Wizards are cool. :smallcool:


You think she went up 12 levels?

If he or she was just one level below an ability increase, 9 levellings would do. But I see your point; from squid thingy I would think V has not leveled more than two or three times, which could place INT at 19 without magical bonuses.

[Noneoyabizzness]

let us take the moment to applaud the evoker.

applaud it I say

[Roxysteve]

Well, the tried and trusted Mass Enlarge Person ploy is all well and good, but when will Vaarsuvius deploy Evan's Tentacles of Spiked Intrusion against these hordes?

If the mere sight of this spell in action could disturb the unflappable Belkar, it should rip the Hobgoblins' morale to shreds (although that could just be the spikes).

And I now understand the "Jump the Shark" rebuking of Xykon by Redcloak after my daughter explained the situation. I withdraw my objection lest I get tentacled.

Steve.

[the_tick_rules]

Dang, V is taking all the glory ain't s/he?

[SeomanCC]

Lol!! Hobgoblowned!

[Wolf53226]

And once again we demonstrate the difference between a wargame and D&D! I wonder what the wargamers like Gygax who originally made D&D thought of that ...

Said as if the handy wall wasn't enough to slow down the hordes of bad guys long enough for the guys with pikes to cut them down. Sure those 13 guys in a wide open field would get eaten alive by hundreds of Hob-kabobs, but with that wall that they need to climb and obviously have no ladder for, that turns the table quite nicely.

[Brettoe]

As I've said before, Vaarsuvius is doing most of the stuff in this war....And him and durkon(hopefully) will do something like he did in cliffport with Thor's lightning

[Nicoli20]

As i already said. But i dont think the zombie dragon is the indicator for it. I look at those amulets. Xykon usually doesnt wear any.

I went all the way back to the beginning of the comic, and Xykon was wearing an amulet. Funny thing though, it's the same amulet that the one Xykon is wearing at the battlefield where V cast those buff spells. V is in trouble.:smalleek:

[Meshakhad]

V owns.

Prediction: A couple strips from now, possibly even tonight's strip, we see Durkon take his turn at using high-level magic with awesome results.

Oh, and if those pikemen are 'the best soldiers', they are probably fighters.

[Nightmarenny]

I went all the way back to the beginning of the comic, and Xykon was wearing an amulet. Funny thing though, it's the same amulet that the one Xykon is wearing at the battlefield where V cast those buff spells. V is in trouble.:smalleek:
No you didn't the one heading to V is a fake and he was when he was seen is the other comic. It was obvious.

[SandroTheMaster]

If he or she was just one level below an ability increase, 9 levellings would do. But I see your point; from squid thingy I would think V has not leveled more than two or three times, which could place INT at 19 without magical bonuses.

2-3 is being pessimistic. V shows to be at MOST 7 when the mind flyer encounter happened. And now it is practically confirmed he is 13 for the number of targets he cast the spells. Even so, it would be at least 11 to cast mass enhancements. I think it's a safe bet that his natural int is at 20 now.

[Roxysteve]

Um... is anyone thinking that NONE of the Xycon's are real. why you ask? Does anyone remember, oh i don't know, THAT GIANT ZOMBIE DRAGON HE WAS RIDING IN STRIP #300. Things like those don't just dissapear. He will probably use ghostform and sneak in or something

Looks like you nailed it, SoG.

Well done that Shade.

Steve (feeling dumb).