Totemist Help

[Kesnit]

(For people who have seen my thread about Eldritch Disciple, this is a different game)

For an extensive list of reasons, my DM is allowing me to trade in my Artificer. (Short version: The way I wanted to play and a playstyle that works for Artificer did not match the game my DM was running.) After some extensive conversations with my DM about my new PC, I decided to try Incarnium. (I have read the Totemist Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0) and Shifter Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?225294-3-5-The-Shifter-Handbook-%28WIP%29).)

Azurin Weretiger* 3/Totemist 5

Abilities (without any items or soulmelds)
Humanoid form
STR 16
DEX 15
CON 16

Hybrid/Animal form
STR 20
DEX 17
CON 18

Mental stats do not change when changing form.
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 11

Skills (without modifiers)
Climb 4
Knowledge (Nature) 11
Intimidate 4
Listen 7
Spot 8
Survival 11

Feats:
(1) Combat Expertise
(1-Racial bonus) Multi-attack
(3) Dragontouched
(6) Improved Natural Attack (Claw)

Equipment
+1 Studded Leather Armor with a Wilding Clasp and a Least Crystal of Arrow Deflection (MIC p25)
Healing Belt
Cloak of Resistance +1/ DEX+3
Amulet of Health+2/STR+2

* My DM has a 3.0 splatbook called "Slaves of the Moon" which gives advancement for were-creatures in the same style as Savage Species.

The idea is to appear human most of the time, but when combat occurs, switch to tiger form. I can only bind 1 soulmeld at this level, so I am going to bind ones that help natural attack. (Ones that are shaped but not bound will go to assorted other things, depending on what the party is doing.)

How does this look? What should I change (since I am sure there is something)?
Edit: Stats adjusted
Edit 2: Equipment adjusted and LVL 3 feat added

[Extra Anchovies]

If you can somehow get the Dragonblood subtype, then Claws of the Wyrm gives you a pair of claw attacks when it's shaped. Not bound, shaped. Shape that, then add on Girallon Arms, for six claws. Woo!

[Red Fel]

If you can somehow get the Dragonblood subtype, then Claws of the Wyrm gives you a pair of claw attacks when it's shaped. Not bound, shaped. Shape that, then add on Girallon Arms, for six claws. Woo!

The feat you want is Dragontouched, from Dragon Magic. It gives you 1 HP, +1 to Spot, Listen and Search, +1 to saves against paralysis and sleep, and - the big money - the Dragonblood subtype - which lets you take Draconic soulmelds. You can also take Draconic feats (the Sorcerer heritage line), not that you need them. Note, however, that one of those feats (Dragon Claw) gives you an Ex claw attack at all times, not reliant on your no-they-don't-work-in-an-AMF Soulmelds.

A few other options to consider: Become the natural attacks king. I've said this one before. Girallon Arms, Dragon Tail, and a few others, and you have an arsenal of natural weapons. Stormguard Warrior and you detonate a damage nova every other turn. Sphinx Claws to use Pounce with your natural attacks. Drop one opponent every other round. Frightful Presence. It's a feat in Draconomicon requiring high Cha and Intimidate, that lets you cause enemies to be shaken every time you do pretty much anything in combat. Pairs nicely with Sphinx Claws. ToB classes. They mix so very nicely with natural weapons characters.

[Troacctid]

If you can somehow get the Dragonblood subtype, then Claws of the Wyrm gives you a pair of claw attacks when it's shaped. Not bound, shaped. Shape that, then add on Girallon Arms, for six claws. Woo!

Eh, it's debatable whether they stack that way, since your hands already have claws on them.

[Kesnit]

If you can somehow get the Dragonblood subtype, then Claws of the Wyrm gives you a pair of claw attacks when it's shaped. Not bound, shaped. Shape that, then add on Girallon Arms, for six claws. Woo!

My natural claws already give better damage (2d6 from Improved Natural Attack). Though that will be useful once I can bind to my arm chakra to get increased critical range.


The feat you want is Dragontouched, from Dragon Magic. It gives you 1 HP, +1 to Spot, Listen and Search, +1 to saves against paralysis and sleep, and - the big money - the Dragonblood subtype - which lets you take Draconic soulmelds.

It requires CHA 11. I managed to move some points around to get that CHA, though. (Originally I had CHA 8.)


Note, however, that one of those feats (Dragon Claw) gives you an Ex claw attack at all times, not reliant on your no-they-don't-work-in-an-AMF Soulmelds.

I'm a weretiger. I have a permanent claw and bite (when in hybrid or animal form) and can shift at will (with a standard action).


Become the natural attacks king. I've said this one before. Girallon Arms, Dragon Tail, and a few others, and you have an arsenal of natural weapons.

Would the claws from Girallon Arms be in addition to my 2 weretiger claws?


Stormguard Warrior and you detonate a damage nova every other turn.

The DM has banned ToB.


Sphinx Claws to use Pounce with your natural attacks.

Always handy...


Frightful Presence.

I managed to find points to get to CHA 11. There's no way I can get to CHA 15.

[Troacctid]

Would the claws from Girallon Arms be in addition to my 2 weretiger claws?

Two of the four sets of claws appear on your hands, where you already have claws. The other two are on extra arms. So you're looking at two extra attacks.

There is technically no rule saying multiple claws on the same hand can't be used to make separate attacks, but that road leads you to silly things like gaining eight attacks from Sphinx Claws instead of two, and monster stat blocks never have more than one claw attack per limb regardless of how many actual claws they have, so...

[Red Fel]

Would the claws from Girallon Arms be in addition to my 2 weretiger claws?

Yes they would, and here's why: Girallon Arms, when bound to the Totem Chakra, gives you four extra arms, each one performing a claw attack. The damage from these claws is increased by essentia investment. This does not preclude you from using your regular claw attacks; it merely gives you a set of new ones.

Several additional points come to mind. First: Does your DM allow Dragon Magazine? The problem with natural attacks is that they don't allow for iteratives - you get two claw attacks as primaries, then any other natural attacks you have at a -5 penalty. If Dragon Magazine is allowed, the Beast Strike feat allows you to tack your claw damage onto your unarmed strikes. This gives you iterative attacks, and increases your claw damage (by adding unarmed damage to it). Note, however, that this requires IUS and BAB +5.

Second: Since we're not using the Stormguard Warrior nova method, a question. Do you have a source of on-hit damage augmentation, such as Sneak Attack or similar, which adds damage to each hit? If not, we might consider shifting our emphasis from "hit things as many times as possible" to "hit things as hard as possible." Consider this: The Girallon Arms soulmeld, when bound to the Totem chakra, gives you four additional claw attacks (at -5 to hit) that deal 1d4+X damage, where X is essentia invested. Assuming no investment, that's an average of 4d4, or 10 damage, on top of your base claw damage (2d6 each for 2 claws, so 4d6 or 14). When bound to your Arms chakra, however (which frees up your Totem chakra for other shenanigans) the Girallon Arms soulmeld allows you to deal double claw damage when you hit with both claws, including double your Str bonus. You say your claws deal 2d6 damage each. That means that, if you hit with both claws, you deal double damage - that's 8d6, an average of 28 damage. Compare that with 24 from the other bind. Note further that this is the result of two hits at your highest BAB, as opposed to two at your highest and four at -5.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you also get a bite attack in animal and hybrid forms? Consider investing in a Mouthpick weapon. Creatures with a bite attack are automatically proficient with a mouthpick weapon - that's RAW. So make it a spiked chain. Stuff a spiked chain into your mouth, rage into battle, trip and disarm things while clawing them to bits, and completely perplex physicists everywhere.

Alright. So where were we? Here's a breakdown of useful things to have by slot: Crown: Frost Helm. Hear me out. Ordinarily not impressive, but it's one of the few soulmelds that gives you a ranged attack without having to bind it to your Totem chakra. That's very useful if you need to keep that one open for something. If you don't plan to bind this to your crown, however, or you don't need the ranged attack, it's not worth it. Feet: Urskan Greaves or Worg Pelt, either one bound. Urskan Greaves is amazing for a Sphinx Claws-based Pounce build, because it adds 1d4 per essentia damage on a charge. More damage is good. Worg Pelt gives you extra move speed, which is also fantastic. If you're not binding, again, they're so-so. Hands: Sphinx Claws, bound, full stop. You get Pounce with natural weapons. (This won't allow you to use a Mouthpick weapon in a charge, but it's so good it doesn't matter.) Arms: Girallon Arms. Bind them to Arms or Totem, as discussed above, your choice. Brow: Varies, unless you bind to the Totem. Unicorn Horn on Totem grants you a gore attack (yay, yet another natural weapon), Yrthak Mask grants a sonic ray, and Great Raptor Mask grants Evasion. Shoulders: Totem Avatar, bound. Increase the size dice on your natural weapons, including non-soulmelds (i.e. your claws). Throat: Not a lot here. Winter Mask has that cute little fatigue ability, and a Cone of Cold. But here's a fun one: Dragonfire Mask (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4), bound to the throat, gives you a breath weapon. Bound to the Totem chakra, it gives you Frightful Presence. (Requires Dragonblood.) Waist: For ranged attacks, Manticore Belt. For a tail attack, Dragon Tail (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4). Note that Dragon Tail gives you the tail attack just for being shaped, no bind required. If you do choose to bind it, binding it to the waist gives it reach and a damage boost; binding it to Totem lets you make a sweep with it. Heart: Blink Shirt. Easy Dimension Door access is useful.You don't need them all, or all at once. But these are some of the choicest options from the Totemist list. Keep in mind also the fact that you could take Shape Soulmeld to grab options from other lists (such as Incarnate).

[Kesnit]

Yes they would, and here's why: Girallon Arms, when bound to the Totem Chakra, gives you four extra arms, each one performing a claw attack. The damage from these claws is increased by essentia investment. This does not preclude you from using your regular claw attacks; it merely gives you a set of new ones.

Good to hear. :smallsmile:


First: Does your DM allow Dragon Magazine? The problem with natural attacks is that they don't allow for iteratives - you get two claw attacks as primaries, then any other natural attacks you have at a -5 penalty. If Dragon Magazine is allowed, the Beast Strike feat allows you to tack your claw damage onto your unarmed strikes. This gives you iterative attacks, and increases your claw damage (by adding unarmed damage to it). Note, however, that this requires IUS and BAB +5.

I can keep that one in mind, since I don't have a feat slot for IUS (unless I give up Dragontouched). I don't want to dip a level of Monk right now since I need Totemist 5 to get crown, feet, and arm chakra binds, and Weretiger 3 gives me a boost to STR, DEX, and natural armor.


Do you have a source of on-hit damage augmentation, such as Sneak Attack or similar, which adds damage to each hit?

No.


If not, we might consider shifting our emphasis from "hit things as many times as possible" to "hit things as hard as possible." Consider this: The Girallon Arms soulmeld, when bound to the Totem chakra, gives you four additional claw attacks (at -5 to hit)

Actually, at -2 since I have Multi-attack. :smallsmile:


When bound to your Arms chakra, however (which frees up your Totem chakra for other shenanigans) the Girallon Arms soulmeld allows you to deal double claw damage when you hit with both claws, including double your Str bonus. You say your claws deal 2d6 damage each. That means that, if you hit with both claws, you deal double damage - that's 8d6, an average of 28 damage. Compare that with 24 from the other bind. Note further that this is the result of two hits at your highest BAB, as opposed to two at your highest and four at -5.

Hmm... That makes a lot of sense...


Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you also get a bite attack in animal and hybrid forms? Consider investing in a Mouthpick weapon. Creatures with a bite attack are automatically proficient with a mouthpick weapon - that's RAW. So make it a spiked chain. Stuff a spiked chain into your mouth, rage into battle, trip and disarm things while clawing them to bits, and completely perplex physicists everywhere.

I loved this idea. However, when I mentioned it to my DM (who happens to be my wife), her exact answer was "Bad puppy! No cuddles!" So I don't think that is going to fly... :smallamused:


Crown: Frost Helm. Hear me out. Ordinarily not impressive, but it's one of the few soulmelds that gives you a ranged attack without having to bind it to your Totem chakra. That's very useful if you need to keep that one open for something. If you don't plan to bind this to your crown, however, or you don't need the ranged attack, it's not worth it.

I only have 1 bind at the moment. And really, my intent with this PC was to be able to get up close and personal with enemies. That's a good idea to keep in the back of my mind, but I don't see using it all that often.


Feet: Urskan Greaves or Worg Pelt, either one bound. Urskan Greaves is amazing for a Sphinx Claws-based Pounce build,

Once I get two binds (next level), that sounds awesome!


Hands: Sphinx Claws, bound, full stop. You get Pounce with natural weapons. (This won't allow you to use a Mouthpick weapon in a charge, but it's so good it doesn't matter.)

Since the mouthpick is a no-go anyway, it doesn't matter.


Note that Dragon Tail gives you the tail attack just for being shaped, no bind required.

I'd already added that one to my list.

[Troacctid]

Girallon Arms do not give you four extra arms. They give you two extra arms for a total of four.

[Greenish]

I forget what Soulbound armour property does, but it sucks, save your money and buy something else instead.

[danzibr]

I have read the Totemist Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2943.0)
There's a better one out there :P


Yes they would, and here's why: Girallon Arms, when bound to the Totem Chakra, gives you four extra arms, each one performing a claw attack. The damage from these claws is increased by essentia investment. This does not preclude you from using your regular claw attacks; it merely gives you a set of new ones.Girallon Arms do not give you four extra arms. They give you two extra arms for a total of four.
Indeed. The rules involving multiple natural attacks are quite muddled, but Girallon Arms makes it clear you get four claws: two on your hands, and two more on a new set of arms.

The general rule is... if a body part is used for one natural attack, it cannot be used for another. It's not clear how claws and slams interact.

[Red Fel]

With regard to Girallon Arms, I stand thoroughly corrected. (All the more reason to use the Arms bind instead of the Totem bind, in your case.)

And yeah. Go read Danzibr's Totemist Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?287304-danzibr-s-Totemist-Handbook). It is awesome, and endorsed by yours truly (who apparently cannot be bothered to tell the difference between "four" and "two," so take that as you will).

I also agree with Greenish. The Soulbound armor property isn't worth a lot to you. It allows you to inflate its enhancement bonus, which is meh. If bound to the soul chakra, it gives you a bonus on saves against opposed alignments, but note that, as a Totemist, you don't get pre-epic access to that one, so it's a non-starter.

[Waker]

Though I can respect your decision to play the concept you like, I do have to ask is Weretiger the most effective choice available to you? Even if LA Buyoff is available, 6 racial HD is a bit underwhelming. Have you considered actually going with the Shifter race in place of your Azurin Weretiger? You would have much of the same appeal while being able to take more class levels. Barbarian or Scout pairs wonderfully with the Totemist or you could just take more Totemist levels. Adding Skirmish to the end of a Pounce with multiple attacks or having access to Shifter Savagery (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-eberron--10/shifter-savagery--2609/) can be quite a bit of fun.

[Kesnit]

I forget what Soulbound armour property does, but it sucks, save your money and buy something else instead.

Why? Not arguing with you. I would just like to know why it's bad. I thought being able to adjust my AC would be good..? (I can easily find a use for the 4000 gold I spent on it.)


Though I can respect your decision to play the concept you like, I do have to ask is Weretiger the most effective choice available to you? Even if LA Buyoff is available, 6 racial HD is a bit underwhelming.

I don't have 6 racial HD. I have 3 levels in a "were" class. As I said in the OP (though it was kind of hidden), my DM has a 3rd party splatbook called Slaves of the Moon that gives racial progression for were-creatures, the way Savage Species does for monsters. Weretiger is actually a 9-level class, but I dropped out of it after 3. I got

+4 STR
+2 DEX
+2 CON
+2 WIS
+2 natural armor (+1 in human form)
scent
low-light vision, and
+4 to Balance, Hide, and Move Silently.


Except for the WIS boost, the stat bonuses only apply in hybrid or animal form.

I did not get

+8 STR
+2 DEX
+4 CON
rake
improved grab
pounce
+5 natural armor (+3 in human form), and
DR 10/silver



Pounce is at LVL 8, which is why I didn't progress the class to get it.


Have you considered actually going with the Shifter race in place of your Azurin Weretiger?

Yes, in fact, that was my first build. However, I could only get shifting 2/day, meaning at least 1 combat a day, I'd have to either not have natural weapons, or use my 1 bind on something that gives natural weapons, which would be duplicated for the 2 combats I could shift.


Barbarian or Scout pairs wonderfully with the Totemist or you could just take more Totemist levels.

My first build was actually a Totemist 5/BARB 2/Totem Rager 1. That's where I was running into the "OK, I can shift twice, but only rage once..."


I am reading danzibr's Handbook now. A lot of really good information that I need to digest.

[danzibr]

And yeah. Go read Danzibr's Totemist Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?287304-danzibr-s-Totemist-Handbook). It is awesome, and endorsed by yours truly (who apparently cannot be bothered to tell the difference between "four" and "two," so take that as you will).
;)

Hey, easy mistake to make.

Though I can respect your decision to play the concept you like, I do have to ask is Weretiger the most effective choice available to you? Even if LA Buyoff is available, 6 racial HD is a bit underwhelming. Have you considered actually going with the Shifter race in place of your Azurin Weretiger? You would have much of the same appeal while being able to take more class levels. Barbarian or Scout pairs wonderfully with the Totemist or you could just take more Totemist levels. Adding Skirmish to the end of a Pounce with multiple attacks or having access to Shifter Savagery can be quite a bit of fun.
Weretiger is pretty baddonkey. But... seconded.

Saurian Shifter is a *very* solid choice.

I don't have 6 racial HD. I have 3 levels in a "were" class. As I said in the OP (though it was kind of hidden), my DM has a 3rd party splatbook called Slaves of the Moon that gives racial progression for were-creatures, the way Savage Species does for monsters. Weretiger is actually a 9-level class, but I dropped out of it after 3.
Compare, say, Weretiger 3/Totemist 6 to a Totemist 9.

By any chance is it truly like Savage Species where Weretiger is the base race and not like a template? If so, compare Weretiger 3/Totemist 6 to Saurian Shifter Totemist 9.


I am reading danzibr's Handbook now. A lot of really good information that I need to digest.
;)

[Greenish]

Why? Not arguing with you. I would just like to know why it's bad. I thought being able to adjust my AC would be good..? (I can easily find a use for the 4000 gold I spent on it.)As I said, I don't even remember properly what it does. Still, if you want AC, you can just invest your essentia into soulmelds for no additional cost, and if you really need AC, you can just get another point from the armour without needing to invest essentia.

Does that make sense?

[Troacctid]

Yeah, paying the extra gp to get soulbound armor is generally not better than paying the same gp to get +2 armor. Similar story for the Cloak of Soulbound Resistance and Ring of Soulbound Protection. Most meldshapers have plenty of receptacles for their essentia already and don't need more of them fighting for space.

[Kesnit]

As I said, I don't even remember properly what it does. Still, if you want AC, you can just invest your essentia into soulmelds for no additional cost, and if you really need AC, you can just get another point from the armour without needing to invest essentia.

Does that make sense?

It does, actually. OK, so the Soulbound property is off the armor. I changed the armor to just +2 Studded Leather.


Yeah, paying the extra gp to get soulbound armor is generally not better than paying the same gp to get +2 armor. Similar story for the Cloak of Soulbound Resistance and Ring of Soulbound Protection. Most meldshapers have plenty of receptacles for their essentia already and don't need more of them fighting for space.

*chuckle* I see your point. The cloak has been converted back to a standard Cloak of Resistance.


Saurian Shifter is a *very* solid choice.

As I said above, I originally had a Razerclaw Shifter Totemist 5/Dragon totem Barbarian 2/Totem Rager 1. The problem I was seeing is a gap between the number of times a day I could shift (2), the number of times I could rage (1), and the number of expected combats (3-4). If I build around having natural weapons and screaming at the top of my lungs, I'm at a severe disadvantage when I can do neither of those things.

I know melds can give natural weapons. But then I am spending a meld to give myself natural weapons. However, I already have natural weapons - at least sometimes - which duplicates the meld for those 2 combats when I can shift. With more levels (probably LVL 12, when I have 2 more feats), I can shift 3/day and rage twice. At that point, the build makes perfect sense. Until then, I'm gimped at least 1 combat/day.

Does that make sense?


Compare, say, Weretiger 3/Totemist 6 to a Totemist 9.

It is something to think about. But I still run into the problem with natural weapons, and that is where I am having a mental block. Shifter gives me natural weapons, just not all day. Soulmelds can give me natural weapons, but they are redundant with the ones I already have sometimes.

I did consider Skarn Totemist 8. That removes the need to use melds to get natural attacks (since Skarn have arm spines).


By any chance is it truly like Savage Species where Weretiger is the base race and not like a template?

No. (I just double-checked to make sure my DM and I didn't read it wrong.) They work like the undead classes in Libris Mortis, except the DM is letting me leave the weretiger class before I complete it.

[Red Fel]

It is something to think about. But I still run into the problem with natural weapons, and that is where I am having a mental block. Shifter gives me natural weapons, just not all day. Soulmelds can give me natural weapons, but they are redundant with the ones I already have sometimes.

And it's at this point that I once again mention that Dragontouched gives you access to Dragon Heritage feats, including Draconic Claws. Takes some precious feat investment to get there, but it means pretty much anyone can have an always-on claw attack.

Alas, if this was a divine casting build, I'd suggest taking a one-level Moonspeaker dip to treat all metamagic, item creation, and wild feats as Shifter feats for purposes of shifting. But then, Moonspeaker solves almost everything Shifter-related, doesn't it?

[Kesnit]

And it's at this point that I once again mention that Dragontouched gives you access to Dragon Heritage feats, including Draconic Claws. Takes some precious feat investment to get there, but it means pretty much anyone can have an always-on claw attack.

Hmm... That brings up a different question... Dragon Claw requires Dragon Heritage. Dragon Heritage requires SORC 1.

If I went (say) Silverbrow Human, I get the dragonblood subtype, do I still need to take a level of SORC and then Dragon Heritage? I just looked in Dragon Magic and CArc, but didn't see anything addressing that.

[Ellowryn]

Hmm... That brings up a different question... Dragon Claw requires Dragon Heritage. Dragon Heritage requires SORC 1.

If I went (say) Silverbrow Human, I get the dragonblood subtype, do I still need to take a level of SORC and then Dragon Heritage? I just looked in Dragon Magic and CArc, but didn't see anything addressing that.

You don't need Dragon Heritage, you need the dragonblooded subtype. Which you get from the Dragontouched feat. It is because the soulmelds from Dragon Magic require you to have the dragonblooded subtype to shape them, so yes if you dropped your race to silverbrow human you could from level one meld any of the soulmelds in Dragon Magic, which the two you want give you a pair of claw attacks and a tail attack.

[Kesnit]

You don't need Dragon Heritage, you need the dragonblooded subtype. Which you get from the Dragontouched feat. It is because the soulmelds from Dragon Magic require you to have the dragonblooded subtype to shape them, so yes if you dropped your race to silverbrow human you could from level one meld any of the soulmelds in Dragon Magic, which the two you want give you a pair of claw attacks and a tail attack.

Perhaps I didn't phrase my last post very well.

I am looking for a way to get an at-will natural attack without having to use a meld to get it. (I only have so many melds, and would prefer to not have to spend one to gain natural attacks. Melds that add natural attacks in addition to my regular ones - like Dragon Tail - are OK since if I need the slot for something else, I don't have to shape/bind it.) Red Fel recommended the feat Draconic Claw (from Dragon Magic and CArc). The feat requires Dragon Heritage, which requires a level of SORC. My question was if I take Silverbrow Human, do I still have to take Dragon Heritage (and a level of SORC to qualify for Dragon Heritage)?

[Red Fel]

Red Fel recommended the feat Draconic Claw (from Dragon Magic and CArc). The feat requires Dragon Heritage, which requires a level of SORC. My question was if I take Silverbrow Human, do I still have to take Dragon Heritage (and a level of SORC to qualify for Dragon Heritage)?

Here's the thing.

Silverbrow Human gives you Dragonblood subtype, which allows you to qualify as a Dragon for various things. However, the Draconic Heritage feat (and its ilk) explicitly requires Sorcerer levels; being considered a Dragon isn't enough. By contrast, the Dragontouched feat contains this language:
In addition, you can select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level.One feat, no Sorc levels required. Note, however, that this does not remove any other prerequisites for the Draconic feat in question. For example, Draconic Claw requires Sorc level 1 and Draconic Heritage. Dragontouched satisfies the Sorc prereq, but you still have to take Draconic Heritage to qualify.

As such, a Silverbrow Human would still have to take Dragontouched (which is stupid), followed by Draconic Heritage and Draconic Claws. You might negotiate with your DM that a Silverbrow Human could qualify for Draconic feats. In that case, however, you would still have to take Draconic Heritage before you could take Draconic Claws (even though it's fairly obvious where a Silverbrow Human gets his Draconic bloodline).

Now, that said, there are other options. For example, Races of the Dragon has the Dragon Tail feat, available to anybody with the Dragonblood subtype, that gives you a tail slap for a secondary natural attack (but it must be taken at first level). Alternatively, if you're okay with evil, you can take Willing Deformity (Clawed Hands) from BoVD.

[Coidzor]

Lamia Belt would also grant an additional 2 claw attacks, though it'd get wonky in Tiger form instead of Hybrid form.

...I think that might be one of those areas where you'd have to ask the DM to adjudicate what happened there.

[Kesnit]

Here's the thing.

Silverbrow Human gives you Dragonblood subtype, which allows you to qualify as a Dragon for various things. However, the Draconic Heritage feat (and its ilk) explicitly requires Sorcerer levels; being considered a Dragon isn't enough. By contrast, the Dragontouched feat contains this language:One feat, no Sorc levels required.

OK, that makes sense.


Note, however, that this does not remove any other prerequisites for the Draconic feat in question. For example, Draconic Claw requires Sorc level 1 and Draconic Heritage. Dragontouched satisfies the Sorc prereq, but you still have to take Draconic Heritage to qualify.

I was afraid of that. :smallfrown:


As such, a Silverbrow Human would still have to take Dragontouched (which is stupid), followed by Draconic Heritage and Draconic Claws. You might negotiate with your DM that a Silverbrow Human could qualify for Draconic feats. In that case, however, you would still have to take Draconic Heritage before you could take Draconic Claws (even though it's fairly obvious where a Silverbrow Human gets his Draconic bloodline).

I've already talked to the DM; she nixed letting me skip Dragontouched. (As I said above, the DM is my wife. She openly admits that she is harsher on me when it comes to rule decisions to avoid charges of favoritism.)


For example, Races of the Dragon has the Dragon Tail feat, available to anybody with the Dragonblood subtype, that gives you a tail slap for a secondary natural attack (but it must be taken at first level).

That's something to think about. It's a secondary attack, but it is a natural attack, so...


Alternatively, if you're okay with evil, you can take Willing Deformity (Clawed Hands) from BoVD.

Evil is banned for a new character. (If the PC ends up RP-ing to evil, that's allowed.)


Lamia Belt would also grant an additional 2 claw attacks, though it'd get wonky in Tiger form instead of Hybrid form.

...I think that might be one of those areas where you'd have to ask the DM to adjudicate what happened there.

*chuckle* I told her about this one and she glared at me. But she didn't say no. I can see it working, in an RP-sense. Kind of like a cat pounces on an mouse - all 4 paws, slashing away while the jaws bite down. (By "pounce," I do not mean pounce-per-D&D-rules.)

The only issue is that it has the Evil descriptor. Then again, the fluff does say "it's hard to shape a lamia belt without being tainted by that evil." (emphasis added) It doesn't say it's impossible. And alignment shifts IC are possible, so...

[danzibr]

Perhaps I didn't phrase my last post very well.

I am looking for a way to get an at-will natural attack without having to use a meld to get it. (I only have so many melds, and would prefer to not have to spend one to gain natural attacks. Melds that add natural attacks in addition to my regular ones - like Dragon Tail - are OK since if I need the slot for something else, I don't have to shape/bind it.) Red Fel recommended the feat Draconic Claw (from Dragon Magic and CArc). The feat requires Dragon Heritage, which requires a level of SORC. My question was if I take Silverbrow Human, do I still have to take Dragon Heritage (and a level of SORC to qualify for Dragon Heritage)?
I have zounds of ways to do this written in my handbook (sorted by type iirc). What are you looking for?

[Red Fel]

The only issue is that it has the Evil descriptor. Then again, the fluff does say "it's hard to shape a lamia belt without being tainted by that evil." (emphasis added) It doesn't say it's impossible. And alignment shifts IC are possible, so...

The alignment descriptors on soulmelds, to my understanding, function a little differently than those on spells. For example, using a spell with the [Evil] descriptor is, by its very nature, an Evil act, you naughty thing, shame on you. By contrast, using soulmelds (with the exception of Necrocarnum, which is explicitly held out to be exceedingly naughty) isn't an alignment-charged thing. Rather, to my understanding, the alignment descriptors on soulmelds determine which classes can use them. Remember, for instance, that an Incarnate cannot use a soulmeld with an alignment descriptor other than his own - an NG Incarnate could not use Necrocarnum. However, Totemists are not limited by alignment. Use the Lamia Belt all you want. Heck, take the Shape Soulmeld feat and grab some Necrocarnum if you want. (Don't, though.)

Yeah. Using a Lamia Belt shouldn't be an issue for you, chief.

[Kesnit]

I have zounds of ways to do this written in my handbook (sorted by type iirc). What are you looking for?

Wow, somehow I overlooked them when going over the handbook.

The issue I have is getting my DM to agree with a selected race. The game is set in Skyrim, so I have to be able to fluff any creature to a Skyrim equivalent. (I could use weretiger because there are werewolves in Skyrim, and one of the daedric princes is the Father of Manbeasts (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hircine). I had to agree to be a worshiper of him to be a were-creature.)

Dragon Magazine (unless I can find it somewhere on the Web) is not allowed because we don't have it.

I am only addressing races that have a natural attack as a racial feature.

ECL +0


Lycanthrope (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)): ECL is +2+HD of base animal if afflicted, +3+HD of base animal if hereditary. Flat +2 Wis. Stat bonuses like Entomanothropes. Gain the animal's feats, get Iron Will for free, some NA. Get their special attacks and qualities (very, very good). For natural weapons, here's the key quote.

After I saw this link, I checked out the stats to see if I could use the were-template from MMI. However, since it works as a template and not a "class," I'd end up with more levels in were than I want to take.


Darfellan (here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050805a&page=2), or Stormwrack): +2 Str, -2 Dex, bite attack. Not bad. Better in a more aquatic campaign.

Not an aquatic campaign.


Arctic or Desert Kobold with Web Enhancement (Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)): Well this is a step up. More Str or Con for less Wis and 3 natural attacks! Still small and bad stats though. Oh right, and access to DM soulmelds is a plus.

No way to fluff this into Skyrim. (If someone can think of one, I am listening.)


Minotaur (DCS, p. 43). Stumbled upon this the other day. +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha. +2 NA. Gore (better than claws or bite) attack which does more damage on a charge. +2 to Intimidate, Swim and Use Rope. Can take Scent as a feat. All for no LA!

Same as Kobold.


Shifter (ECS, p. 20): Bonus to Dex, penalty to mental stats, shaperchanger subtype, can pseudo-rage, potential to get natural attacks (2 claws or 1 bite), with some feats can get the other one.
Shifter, Saurian (Drag Mag 328, p. 60): Now that'sa mo' betta! What a fantastic race. They have the reptilian and shapechanger subtypes, the former qualifies them for the Scaled Horror PrC (SS, p. 83), a level 1 dip giving them Improved Grab. +2 Con, -2 to dump stats, like Shifters they can change shape 1/day and another 1/day per shifter feat. They can choose 2 Shifter traits, 3 of which gain natural weapons (1 grants a bite, 1 grants 2 claws, 1 grants a tail slap), usable while shifting, and the traits give stat bonuses.

Shifter would be great - with 4 more levels so I could grab 2 more shifter feats.


Skarn (MoI): Good, not great (why only 1 spine attack?). If you play one check with your DM on interaction of natural weapons.

This one is possible.


Spiker (Planar Handbook, p. 15): For some reason I really like this race. Darkvision's nice, a little NA, some DR, acid resistance. The best thing about them is the Natural Spikes (Ex). They deal extra damage while grappling and can attack with their spikes like a normal weapon. Note they say, "use their natural spiked skin as a weapon," so while it doesn't explicitly call their spikes a natural weapon it would be natural to do so. Ask your DM.

I love this one. I love this one so much I want to have its babies!

I mentioned it to the DM. She looked at me and said "you'd look just like a Dremora (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Dremora)." I even offered to worship Mehrunes Dagon! She replied that "every Vigilant of Stendarr (www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vigilant_of_Stendarr) in Tamriel will be after you"

So this one is a no. :smallfrown:


Warforged (ECS): Terrific. Warforged Totemist is one of my favorite combos ever and likely what got me to make this handbook. Loads of immunities, bonus to Con, free natural weapon (a slam), a feat away from a bite and a second slam.

I found the feat that gives a bite attack. Where is the one that gives a claw attack?

I'm also not sure I could get away with playing a warforged. There is something in Skyrim that matches a Warforged. Sadly, they are mindless constructs (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dwarven_Automatons).


Dragonborn (RotD): +2 Con, -2 Dex. Removes basically all racial features (nice for, say, Orc's Light Sensitivity). Can pick up wings. Pretty solid.

I love this one, and fluffing it would be easy. But I don't see a natural attack. If there is one - or an easy way to get one other than taking a race with one - this may be a winner. (I may take it anyway and just take a race with a natural attack.)

ECL +1

Bladeling (MM2, p. 31):

Same as Kobold.


Poison Dusk Lizardfolk (MM III, p. 96): Not too shabby. 3 natural attacks, bonus to Dex, bonus to Con. And +3 NA. Then why green? Well, they're small, which most Totemists don't like. Better than a Kobold though.

Not sure I could fluff this for Skyrim, and, as you said, they are small.

Templates

Draconic (RotD, p. 74): Eh, decent bonuses, get some claws, but you'd probably be better off with another level of Totemist. Still, something to consider. Plus you get the dragonblood subtype.

I think I'd rather stick with Dragonborn.


Feral (SS, p. 115): +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex (boo), -4 Int, +2 Wis. Okay, not bad. More speed, some NA, gain 2 claws, get Darkvision and Fast Healing based on HD (does not say monster Hit Dice). Unfortunately, as ArchangelAzrael pointed out, the really good abilities (Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, Rend) do make specific mention of monster HD. Shucks.

If I'm starting at ECL 8 (Feral (Race) Totemist 7), that would mean I would get Improved Grab and Pounce, with Rake coming on next level, right? Or am I completely misreading the table? The loss of DEX does hurt, and my skill points are going to be horrible, but this could be workable.

Fluffing it would be no problem. Heck, I could be a human who ran away to live in the woods, or was kidnapped by spriggens, or something.

ECL +2

Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus (SS, p. 216): 2 RHD, 0 LA, so at least you get some BAB and saves. For stats, +2 Str, +6 Dex, -2 Con (ouch), +4 Wis, -4 Cha. Also, +2 NA. Then why so good? You get 6 tentacle attacks AND a bite attack. That's right, 7 natural attacks. It seems you keep special attacks which do not rely on nonhumanoid shape, so maybe you keep Constrict and Improved Grab. Add Amphibious from Stormwrack (p. 136) to breathe out of water at the price of 2 Dex.

Since I do not want to have to sleep on the couch, I am not bringing this one to the DM!





The alignment descriptors on soulmelds, to my understanding, function a little differently than those on spells. For example, using a spell with the [Evil] descriptor is, by its very nature, an Evil act, you naughty thing, shame on you. By contrast, using soulmelds (with the exception of Necrocarnum, which is explicitly held out to be exceedingly naughty) isn't an alignment-charged thing. Rather, to my understanding, the alignment descriptors on soulmelds determine which classes can use them. Remember, for instance, that an Incarnate cannot use a soulmeld with an alignment descriptor other than his own - an NG Incarnate could not use Necrocarnum. However, Totemists are not limited by alignment. Use the Lamia Belt all you want. Heck, take the Shape Soulmeld feat and grab some Necrocarnum if you want. (Don't, though.)

I know Totemists have no restrictions on alignment-based soulmelds. I only mentioned it because I suspect my DM will hold me to the RP aspects.


Yeah. Using a Lamia Belt shouldn't be an issue for you, chief.

Sounds like fun! :smallbiggrin:

[Red Fel]

If I'm starting at ECL 8 (Feral (Race) Totemist 7), that would mean I would get Improved Grab and Pounce, with Rake coming on next level, right? Or am I completely misreading the table? The loss of DEX does hurt, and my skill points are going to be horrible, but this could be workable.

Afraid not. Don't confuse RHD with ECL.

RHD (Racial Hit Dice) are part of a monster's adjusted character level. To give an illustration, let's look at the Ogre (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm). Now, the Ogre has an LA of +2. But if you're playing an Ogre, you're not starting at level 3 (2 LA plus 1 class level). You're starting at level 7. Why? Because on top of that +2 LA, he has four hit dice of Ogre. That's the "four hit dice of Giant" described in his Racial Hit Dice entry. That means he has a +2 LA (which could theoretically be bought off), +4 RHD (which can't), and all that before counting class levels.

It's the RHD that matters. Class levels don't contribute to RHD, but to overall HD. Different thing, sadly, otherwise Feral would be a scaling bag of awesome. Because you're not playing a race with RHD (at least, I assume you're not), you don't get any of the RHD-dependent abilities.

But look on the bright side: Feral does give you some useful nuggets. The template gives you claw attacks (which you want), a boost to movement speed, a boost to natural armor, and some ability score adjustments. Sadly, the special attack modes (Rake, Pounce, etc.) and other nuggets (Darkvision and Fast Healing) are RHD-dependent. But for +1 LA, you're at least getting the claw attacks you want, and a few other bits.

And you can always ask if LA buyoff is on the table.

[Coidzor]

Perhaps I didn't phrase my last post very well.

I am looking for a way to get an at-will natural attack without having to use a meld to get it. (I only have so many melds, and would prefer to not have to spend one to gain natural attacks. Melds that add natural attacks in addition to my regular ones - like Dragon Tail - are OK since if I need the slot for something else, I don't have to shape/bind it.) Red Fel recommended the feat Draconic Claw (from Dragon Magic and CArc). The feat requires Dragon Heritage, which requires a level of SORC. My question was if I take Silverbrow Human, do I still have to take Dragon Heritage (and a level of SORC to qualify for Dragon Heritage)?

Meldless natural weapon sources that come to mind...

Feats:
Aberration Blood > Aberrant Feat(Say, Inhuman Reach for +5' of reach for all your attacks) > Deepspawn - 2 tentacles All from Lords of Madness aside from the Eberron-specific Mourning Mutate from Dragon Magazine 359.

Human or flaws and Dragontouched(Draogn Magic) > Dragon Tail - 1 tail (slap, IIRC) Or just be a race with dragonblood subtype and grab Dragon Tail(Races of the Dragon).

Items:
Fanged Mask (MIC) - ~6000 gp for a bite attack natural weapon. Ish. Talk with DM and review item text.

Horned Helm(MIC) - ~6000 gp for a horn attack natural weapon. Ish. Talk with DM and review item text.

Probably some gauntlets around somewhere that give claw attacks though I can't recall offhand. I know there's some Demon Armor that gives claws and a bite, of course.

Wing Buffets are the hardest to get, IIRC, if you want those, then meld is the best way to go with Chaos Roc's Span from Dragon Magazine 350(?).

[Extra Anchovies]

I found the feat that gives a bite attack. Where is the one that gives a claw attack?

I'm also not sure I could get away with playing a warforged. There is something in Skyrim that matches a Warforged. Sadly, they are mindless constructs (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dwarven_Automatons).

Second Slam gives you a third race-derived natural attack. Requires BAB +6.

Also, maybe you're the result of an experiment by the dwarves to create a sentient Automaton? You could even act somewhat like an automaton (take instructions literally, find delight in repetitive tasks, etc).

[Troacctid]

A Cloistered Cleric dip would get you a bite attack with the Hunger domain, plus two more domains (Knowledge and one other) and a little bit of casting.

[Coidzor]

Seems like Kobolds and Lizardfolks of all varieties would be easily handled by various offshoots of Argonians.

I mean, I know everyone *hates* them, but they technically still exist unless your DM has exterminated them.


A Cloistered Cleric dip would get you a bite attack with the Hunger domain, plus two more domains (Knowledge and one other) and a little bit of casting.

And there's an enitre guide to dipping Cleric 1.

Also there's the Catalogues of Enlightenment which can give either Kobold Domain's Trapfinding or Hunger Domain's Bite attack without worshipping the king of Ghouls or another diety or principle with that domain, though I suppose that's not really an issue with Daedric princes.

[Kesnit]

Second Slam gives you a third race-derived natural attack. Requires BAB +6.

I saw that one, but it says it gives a second "slam." The handbook says there is a feat that gives a claw, and that is what I was looking for. (Not that slam is bad. I was making sure I have all my options.)


Also, maybe you're the result of an experiment by the dwarves to create a sentient Automaton? You could even act somewhat like an automaton (take instructions literally, find delight in repetitive tasks, etc).

*chuckle* I think I'd drive myself and everyone else nuts.


Afraid not. Don't confuse RHD with ECL.

RHD (Racial Hit Dice) are part of a monster's adjusted character level.

Drat.

I know the difference between HD and RHD. My confusion came because the paragraph actually says 2 different things. The first sentence says "a feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice." Nothing about RHD. That is what I was reading. I looked at the template again this morning, and that is when I saw that the next sentence says "monster Hit Dice."

I may take the template to my DM and ask if she'll count HD from class levels as HD for that table. Doubt she'll let it fly, but she might.


It's the RHD that matters. Class levels don't contribute to RHD, but to overall HD. Different thing, sadly, otherwise Feral would be a scaling bag of awesome. Because you're not playing a race with RHD (at least, I assume you're not), you don't get any of the RHD-dependent abilities.

Yeah, if I use the template, I was going to use Azurin.

Edit: Looking at it again, the Special Qualities section (fast healing and darkvision) says a "feral creature gains additional special qualities depending on its Hit Dice," not monstrous Hit Dice or "HD of the base creature."


But look on the bright side: Feral does give you some useful nuggets. The template gives you claw attacks (which you want), a boost to movement speed, a boost to natural armor, and some ability score adjustments. Sadly, the special attack modes (Rake, Pounce, etc.) and other nuggets (Darkvision and Fast Healing) are RHD-dependent. But for +1 LA, you're at least getting the claw attacks you want, and a few other bits.

That's very true. I may use it anyway. As you said, it gives some nice stuff for +1 LA - which is 2 more class levels than my current build.


Seems like Kobolds and Lizardfolks of all varieties would be easily handled by various offshoots of Argonians.

True.


Also there's the Catalogues of Enlightenment which can give either Kobold Domain's Trapfinding or Hunger Domain's Bite attack without worshipping the king of Ghouls or another diety or principle with that domain, though I suppose that's not really an issue with Daedric princes.

We actually made a list of what Domains the Nine Divines and the Daedric Princes have.

[danzibr]

I saw that one, but it says it gives a second "slam." The handbook says there is a feat that gives a claw, and that is what I was looking for. (Not that slam is bad. I was making sure I have all my options.)
I am not aware of any feat unique to Warforged which grants them a claw.

There are several feats which grant claw attacks, but none that I know of which are unique to Warforged.

Also, if you want to see feats, gear and spells which grant natural attacks, sorted by type, look at the spoilers in post 7 of my guide.

[Red Fel]

If you're considering templates, you might also consider the Half-Minotaur template. Yes, it's Dragon Magazine, but it's so great, particularly with Feral (if you're willing to soak another +1 LA). It gives you a size increase, natural armor, a gore attack, Scent, Darkvision, and some ability modifiers and skill bonuses. Note that the template does not include the stat modifications for a size increase. For Medium -> Large (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases), that's +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 AC/attack. That's in addition to the bonuses from the template (+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int), so it sums up pretty massively (+12 Str, +6 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, for +1 LA).

Not sure how it would play in your setting. Big dude with horns? Do they have those?

[Extra Anchovies]

Not sure how it would play in your setting. Big dude with horns? Do they have those?

Sort of?

http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/skyrim-dlc-ps3-price.jpg

[danzibr]

If you're considering templates, you might also consider the Half-Minotaur template. Yes, it's Dragon Magazine, but it's so great, particularly with Feral (if you're willing to soak another +1 LA). It gives you a size increase, natural armor, a gore attack, Scent, Darkvision, and some ability modifiers and skill bonuses. Note that the template does not include the stat modifications for a size increase. For Medium -> Large (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases), that's +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 AC/attack. That's in addition to the bonuses from the template (+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int), so it sums up pretty massively (+12 Str, +6 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, for +1 LA).

Not sure how it would play in your setting. Big dude with horns? Do they have those?
While you're at it, slap on Half-Ogre and Arctic for free. Pretty absurd.

[Kesnit]

If you're considering templates, you might also consider the Half-Minotaur template. Yes, it's Dragon Magazine, but it's so great, particularly with Feral (if you're willing to soak another +1 LA). It gives you a size increase, natural armor, a gore attack, Scent, Darkvision, and some ability modifiers and skill bonuses. Note that the template does not include the stat modifications for a size increase. For Medium -> Large (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases), that's +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 AC/attack. That's in addition to the bonuses from the template (+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int), so it sums up pretty massively (+12 Str, +6 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, for +1 LA).

I found the template on the Web, so at least the DM can look at it. I'm a little hesitant, though, since I'm already taking -4 to my INT (from Feral). At the rate this is going, I am about to become a drooling idiot! :smallsmile:

I'm also starting to feel a little cheesy, since I am already considering template stacking (Dragonborn and Feral, see below). And my DM may make me soak another LA in order to get more cool stuff from Feral (also see below).


Not sure how it would play in your setting. Big dude with horns? Do they have those?


Sort of?

http://www.product-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/skyrim-dlc-ps3-price.jpg

*chuckle* But those aren't natural horns.



OK, so after getting lots of tips (thank you to everyone!) and rereading danzibr's handbook, I have completely redone my build.



Abilities without gear (but after template modifications)
STR 20
DEX 14
CON 18
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 8

Gear
+2 Chain Shirt with a Least Crystal of Arrow Deflection
Healing Belt
Cloak of Resistance +1/STR +2
Amulet of Health +2/DEX+2/Natural Weapons +1 (X2 for both claws)

Skills
Handle Animal 1
Knowledge (Nature) 11
Listen 11
Ride 2
Spot 11
Swim 1

Feats
(1) Dragontouched
(1-Racial) Shape Soulmeld (Thunderstep Boots)
(3) Multiattack
(6) Improved Natural Attack

I'm going to ask if I can add the Dragonborn template on top of this as well. I may get a "Bad puppy!" answer, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I will ask my DM if she will let me count HD from the class to advance HD for the special abilities from the Feral template. If she balks, I am thinking about offering to add another LA to Feral in exchange for advancing the special abilites. Would that be too much? Is there something else that I could offer to convince her to let me advance the abilities?

[Red Fel]

I'm going to ask if I can add the Dragonborn template on top of this as well. I may get a "Bad puppy!" answer, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I'd actually suggest not getting Dragonborn on top of all that, for two reasons.

First: Dragonborn only adds so much, given that you've already got the Dragontouched feat. That means you already have the Dragonblood subtype. Dragonborn simply adds some ability modifiers, a loose alignment code, and your choice of wings, vision, or a breath weapon. (Fus ro dah?) These can, I should note, be acquired by feats.

Second: Dragonborn removes various prior racial features. That includes an Azurin's human bonus feat and extra essentia point (but not the Incarnum subtype), and various Feral features. Generally speaking, Dragonborn is only really good in one of three situations: (1) the base race gives you key ability modifiers, Powerful Build, or similar features that Dragonborn does not explicitly take away (see e.g. Dragonborn Goliath, which keeps Powerful Build); (2) the base race gives you a desired type or subtype, which Dragonborn leaves intact (see e.g. Dragonborn Warforged, which keeps the Living Construct subtype and all attendant abilities); or (3) the base race has specific weaknesses that Dragonborn removes (see e.g. Dragonborn Orc, which loses Light Sensitivity). In this case, the only thing you get to keep from a Dragonborn Feral Azurin is the Incarnum subtype from Azurin and the movement speed boost from Feral, if memory serves.

Honestly, Dragonborn probably isn't worth it for you.

[Kesnit]

I'd actually suggest not getting Dragonborn on top of all that, for two reasons.

First: Dragonborn only adds so much, given that you've already got the Dragontouched feat. That means you already have the Dragonblood subtype. Dragonborn simply adds some ability modifiers, a loose alignment code, and your choice of wings, vision, or a breath weapon. (Fus ro dah?) These can, I should note, be acquired by feats.

(snip)

Honestly, Dragonborn probably isn't worth it for you.

OK, so no Dragonborn. Probably for the best anyway!

Edit: Just went back and looked at the Feral template again. Do I get both claw attacks as a standard action, or only 1 on standard and 2 on full? The sample creature shows 2 claws under "Attack" and there is no listing for "Full Attack."

[danzibr]

OK, so no Dragonborn. Probably for the best anyway!

Edit: Just went back and looked at the Feral template again. Do I get both claw attacks as a standard action, or only 1 on standard and 2 on full? The sample creature shows 2 claws under "Attack" and there is no listing for "Full Attack."
If memory serves me right, you only ever get one attack on a standard action.

For a full attack, one set is usually primary, everything else (which is usable, anyway) becomes secondary. Exceptions to this rule are called out in individual texts (like "This can't be used as a secondary weapon" or the like).

[Coidzor]

While you're at it, slap on Half-Ogre and Arctic for free. Pretty absurd.

Arctic would be quite appropriate since they're setting this in Skyrim, after all.

[Kesnit]

Arctic would be quite appropriate since they're setting this in Skyrim, after all.

Where would I find the Arctic template? The link in the handbook points to a dead link on the WotC page, and I can't seem to get the archived version to come up.

Edit: My DM allowed the special attacks and qualities from the Feral template to advance with my HD in exchange for making the template LA+2. So I'm a Feral Azurin Totemist 6.

[Coidzor]

Where would I find the Arctic template? The link in the handbook points to a dead link on the WotC page, and I can't seem to get the archived version to come up.

Edit: My DM allowed the special attacks and qualities from the Feral template to advance with my HD in exchange for making the template LA+2. So I'm a Feral Azurin Totemist 6.

Arctic is from Dragon Mag 306. 3.0 content, but updating it is trivial and just means you have to convert Wilderness Lore into Survival, IIRC.