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Laesin
2007-03-16, 10:44 PM
Can anyone tell me how to adjudicate the use of the various Shadow spells to replicate Conjuration (teleportation) effects. Please? What does the X% really affect in these cases?

Solo
2007-03-16, 10:47 PM
You cant teleport with Shadow Conjuration, sorry.

Rigeld2
2007-03-16, 10:47 PM
Can anyone tell me how to adjudicate the use of the various Shadow spells to replicate Conjuration (teleportation) effects. Please? What does the X% real affect in these cases?

Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

This spell functions like shadow conjuration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjuration.htm), except that it can duplicate any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 6th level or lower.

In other words, you cant use SC to emulate a Conjuration (Teleportation) effect.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-16, 10:48 PM
Argueably Shades will do the job (as it doesn't list schools). But that one you don't need to worry about overly much.

And assuming it can, the % chance (as it is a nondamaging effect) is the chance that someone who succeeds on their Will save will come along for the ride.

TheOOB
2007-03-16, 10:56 PM
Of course, since teleport is a willing only spell anyways, they can just choose to automatically fail their will save and "belive" the spell.

The shadow spells essentially have an 100% success rate for beneficial spells.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-16, 11:02 PM
Argueably Shades will do the job (as it doesn't list schools). But that one you don't need to worry about overly much.

And assuming it can, the % chance (as it is a nondamaging effect) is the chance that someone who succeeds on their Will save will come along for the ride.

Shades references Shadow Conjuration. Thus, where Shades doesn't explicitly override SC, the SC text applies.

Laesin
2007-03-16, 11:02 PM
I must have missed something. I was reading the PHB at my DMs flat and didn't see the restriction to summoning or creation. Serves me right for just reading the synopsis in the spell list. Thanks all.

Jack_Simth
2007-03-16, 11:11 PM
Shades references Shadow Conjuration. Thus, where Shades doesn't explicitly override SC, the SC text applies.

Shades

Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics sorcerer and wizard conjuration spells of 8th level or lower. The illusory conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nonbelievers, and nondamaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers.
(Emphasis added)
Compare to Shadow Conjouration:


Shadow Conjuration

Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with); varies; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text
You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.
Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.
Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.
Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.
Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.
A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether it’s recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature’s damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature’s AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.
A creature that succeeds on its save sees the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.
Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.(Emphasis added)
And compare to Greater Shadow Conjouration:

Shadow Conjuration, Greater

Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it can duplicate any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 6th level or lower. The illusory conjurations created deal three-fifths (60%) damage to nonbelievers, and nondamaging effects are 60% likely to work against nonbelievers.
(Emphasis added)
In Shadow Conjouration and it's Greater counterpart, it's "conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell"; with Shades, it's "conjuration spells". The text of Shades says it takes a different category of spells, and is more permissive. Explicitly overriden. Probably an editing error, mind, but technically there.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-17, 12:29 AM
Hunh, you're right. Likely not the intention, but there it is.

Jacob Orlove
2007-03-17, 12:40 AM
It gets a lot worse when used with Conjuration (Calling) spells. You can duplicate Greater Planar Binding and "negotiate" to tune of "you will agree to serve me until I dismiss you. If not, I'll end this spell, and you will cease to exist". An open ended task like that means they last for 1 day/caster level, but if you have something more specific, you might be able to get them to stick around for even longer.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-17, 12:41 AM
...what makes you think that the creature called, rather than the magical portal that brings them through, would be made of shadow-stuff?

TheOOB
2007-03-17, 12:48 AM
Maybe only 20% of them is made of shadow stuff? That way if you dismissed the spell they'd still probally die.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-17, 12:51 AM
No, see, the creature is real. The spell doesn't make the creature. The spell creates a trap for the creature. So the trap would be partially non-real, but the creature would be real.

Jacob Orlove
2007-03-17, 12:55 AM
...what makes you think that the creature called, rather than the magical portal that brings them through, would be made of shadow-stuff?
That's certainly a valid interpretation, but the problem is that Shades is so poorly worded, we can't even tell what it's supposed to do in cases like that. Obviously, the trick shouldn't work, but exactly why it doesn't is up to the DM.