Frostrager and Two-Weapon Rend

[Umbranar]

Hello playgrounders,

I want to make a Frostrager character and I`m not sure wether the combination below is legit:

Rend, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend: If you hit your target with two or more unarmed attacks you deal 2d8+1 1/2 str mod damage. Can your unarmed strikes by combined with improved two weapon fighting and two-weapon rend to basicly double rend (albeit other damage) your target?

[Andezzar]

Unarmed Strikes can be used as one weapon in Two-Weapon Fighting. Rend requires two successful unarmed attacks, and Two-Weapon Rend requires a hit from both wielded weapons (in your case the unarmed strike and some other weapon). So if you hit at least three times (twice with the unarmed strike and once with another weapon) you will get both extra damages.

This question would have been a good candidate for the Simple RAW thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367727-Simple-Raw-Thread-for-3-5-28).

[Bluydee]

You can TWF unarmed strikes. One variant barbarian giving you unarmed strikes gives you two weapon fighting, therefore it is obvious it works.

[Andezzar]

You can TWF unarmed strikes. One variant barbarian giving you unarmed strikes gives you two weapon fighting, therefore it is obvious it works.What are you talking about?

[Necroticplague]

You can TWF unarmed strikes. One variant barbarian giving you unarmed strikes gives you two weapon fighting, therefore it is obvious it works.

You can TWF an unarmed strike with another weapon, but you can't TWF an unarmed strike with itself. A creature only has one unarmed strike, not more. To say you could TWF an unarmed strike with itself would be likte saying "I'm gonna twf with my greatsword as my main hand. My off hand is also that same greatsword."

As for the ACF you mentioned (City Brawler, I presume?): WOTC isn't always the best writers. We have several threads dedicated to them failing to realize how their own rules work. However, even the possibility of a mistake aside, an unarmed Strike could be used a weapon in a TWF, it just can't be both the main hand and off-hand, because you only have one unarmed strike. So they intent could have been to allow you to, say, shank someone and then smack them in the face, which TWF does let you do.

[Murmaider]

The ruling on whether you can twf with only unarmed attacks is debatable and has been discussed before.

You can rend only once however, it's right there in the wording.

"If you hit your target with two or more unarmed attacks you deal this much extra damage"

More in this case is any number bigger than two and no matter how many attacks you hit with, it's always at most any number bigger than two.

It appears that I can't read, derp.

Still, I'm not too sure about the part that your two fists can't count as separate weapons. In the Kensai Prc from complete warrior under the entry "Imbuing Natural Weapons" it says that you pay 100% +10% per weapon as the XP cost. It then goes on and makes an example of a Kensai who pays 120% of the cost to imbue both of his fists. That means in this case both of his fists count as separate weapons.

[Andezzar]

One extra damage is from rend (frostrager class feature) and one is from two-weapon rend. As long as you hit with two unarmed attacks and one other weapon you get both, as they come from different sources.

There is only one Unarmed Strike regardless of the number of attacks you get with it, so you cannot TWF with it alone.