Bad alignment- themed melee warrior

[DruidAlanon]

Hello there

My party wiill be 4 players: 1 wizard/sorcerer/dread necro (she does not know yet), 1 more spellcaster(sorcerer probably), 1 rogue/ranger/assassin and me. The other 3 players are very experienced and I'm sure their builds will be solid. So, I intend to create an optimized melee warrior to accompany them.

We will probably start at lvl 3 (but lvl1 is a possibility as well) and finish the main story at least at lvl 12.

We have 90 points to spend on abilities, min 9 max 18 (without taking into account race adjustments).
I think of something like that:

str 18
dex 10
con 18
int 10
wis 17
cha 17

Or maybe pumping up dex a little bit and lowing cha(?).
At first, I thought of paladin of tyranny/ warrior of darkness. Then, I thought of a melee cleric (nerull probably)/bone knight. In any case I think that at least lvl1 will be cleric. The problem is, I don't know how to create an effective melee character(I 100% played an arcane caster or druid). The best role at the moment I think is to create a bad@ss anti-(good)paladin with decent dmg + survivability. Otherwise I would build a rogue/ranger/assassin/warrior of darnkess character or similar. As far as I can understand, I will be the front line hand to hand fighter in the party. Also, I am concerned how to accompany a heavily chaotic neutral party, with me (plus+ assassin(?)) the only one (lawful/neutral) evil. This is completely up to me to match up with them and my DM always focuses on the RP.

PS We use homerules all the time and DM will probably let the assassin to be neutral instead of evil

[Extra Anchovies]

First 90 point buy. wat
Lucky you. Make the best of it.

Melee Cleric 12-level build:
Class: (non-Cloistered) Cleric 6/Bone Knight 6
Domains: Undeath, Planning. Fairly easy to fluff these together; undead are in it for the long haul, after all, and thus would benefit well from a good plan.
Feats:
1st: Power Attack, Persistent Spell, Extra Turning (bonus from Undeath domain), Extend Spell (bonus from Planning domain)
3rd: Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
6th: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
9th: Corpse Crafter
12th: Extra Turning

If you have flaws, take as many as possible; one of them will be for Corpse Crafter at 1st level (make your 9th level feat Extra Turning), then take Extra Turning with the rest of them. Use Craft Magic Arms and Armor so you don't need to rely on someone else to enchant your bonecraft weapon and armor.

Some good spells to DMM Persist and vanilla Extend:
Divine Power - gives you full BAB and +6 to Strength. This is never not worth persisting.
Sign (Miniatures Handbook version) - always win initiative
Mass Lesser Vigor (at later levels, Vigorous Circle) - continuous whole-party healing; never waste a slot on CLW again!
Recitation - everyone likes a party-buff
Divine Favor - luck bonuses are good, they aren't too common
Righteous Might - size bonuses are better, they're even less common
Superior Resistance - throw away that cloak of resistance, this spell does one better

[MilesTiden]

... You do realize that with 90 point buy you can literally get 18/18/18/18/18/16? Something tells me there's a bit of a miscommunication there... Your point buy you used as an example is a 62 point-buy, which, compared to 5 18s and a 16, is a pretty big difference. Are you absolutely sure that point buy is correct?

[DruidAlanon]

Extra Anchovies, thanks for that, wow!!

MilesTiden... hm, I maybe was not clear yep. DM gives us 90 points to put them wherever we want as long as min ability score will be 9 and max will be 18. It's not a 90 point buy, it's just a way to ensure that average score will be 15, and deviation won't be enormous. It's kind of a homerule to keep players happy and help classes with specific requirements (like eg paladin) to actually function decently.

[MilesTiden]

Oh, I apologize, I've never run across that method of generation before. Well, alrighty then.

[Extra Anchovies]

Extra Anchovies, thanks for that, wow!!

MilesTiden... hm, I maybe was not clear yep. DM gives us 90 points to put them wherever we want as long as min ability score will be 9 and max will be 18. It's not a 90 point buy, it's just a way to ensure that average score will be 15, and deviation won't be enormous. It's kind of a homerule to keep players happy and help classes with specific requirements (like eg paladin) to actually function decently.

Oh, 90 points starting from zero. That's much more balanced, but still fairly high-PB.

[The Grue]

Dump Int and Dex to 9 to bring Wis and Cha to 18 each. Int just gives you skillpoints, and as for Dex you're likely going to be wearing heavy armor anyway. Meanwhile Wis is your casting stat and, thanks to Paladin levels, Cha gives you a host of goodies not the least of which is a +4 to all your saves.

Str 18
Dex 9
Con 18
Int 9
Wis 18
Cha 18

Then show your DM and see if he decides on a different point buy system.

[Gwendol]

Totally go for paladin using the charging smite variant, and picking up fear related stuff like dreadful wrath or frightful presence. Use your charisma (turn attempts) to fuel divine feats.

Or go cleric and rule supreme. But you don't need stratospheric stats for that.

[Xerlith]

Nothing screams "Survivability" like the Crusader does. A Crusader20 is a perfectly viable build in a moderately-optimized group.

Alternatively, Human Paladin (of Tyranny)4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator10, with a 18/10/18/10/16/18 split? The usual Action Economy (Seriously, Divine impetus is probably 1/round free action) breakdown with the Battle Blessing feat, Devoted Spirit goodness and you can pretty much keep up with the spellcasters in your party.

[DruidAlanon]

I haven't thought of ToB, good point. Yes, crusader+ Ruby Knight I think is ok on what I want to do. (even though Wee Jas was not my first priority as a deity but, on second thought, she might be fine)

I just wanted something more "evil". That's why I focused on warrior of darkness & bone knight as PrCs. Since I have the freedom to pump up each ability necessary for paladin I think I'll go for a paladin 4/ maybe cleric 1/crusader 1/ bone knight 6+ even though I like the idea of a straightforward cleric 6/bone night 6+

Or a sorc/fighter/warrior of darkness or even cleric/warrior of darkness but I think both lack too much in terms of optimization.

[Ratatoskir]

I remember seeing a build that went something like Paladin Tyranny 4/Hexblade 4/Blackguard/ Something. The main draws to the build were Charisma twice to saves (and one more time if the save is for a spell) and a pretty decent stack of abilities that reduced enemy's saves. Given that your party has a high chance of lots of save or dies, might be worth building something akin to that?

Edit: Save reducers were: Aura of despair (-2 within ten feet), Hexblade Dark companion (-2 adjacent to dark companion), Intimidate (-2 from shaken), and hexblade curse (-2). Think that's all of them

Edit again: Screw it, found the post: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8011614&postcount=116)

[DruidAlanon]

I remember seeing a build that went something like Paladin Tyranny 4/Hexblade 4/Blackguard/ Something. The main draws to the build were Charisma twice to saves (and one more time if the save is for a spell) and a pretty decent stack of abilities that reduced enemy's saves. Given that your party has a high chance of lots of save or dies, might be worth building something akin to that?

Edit: Save reducers were: Aura of despair (-2 within ten feet), Hexblade Dark companion (-2 adjacent to dark companion), Intimidate (-2 from shaken), and hexblade curse (-2). Think that's all of them

Edit again: Screw it, found the post: Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8011614&postcount=116)

It was not my intention at first but, yes, this is what I'm looking for, thanks. Theoretically, I don't like the addition of entropomancer but at least paladin of tyrrany4/hex4/blackguard 2-3 is quite reasonable.I'll probably start with that.

[Pilo]

Sorry for not helping, but the first player might be interested in Death master from Dragon Compendium.

[AvatarVecna]

Things I'll mention that make good combos for melee characters. Here's some tips to use together

Warblade+Knowledge Devotion, for lots of knowledge skills and lots of bonuses.

Paladin of Tyranny+Blackguard, for 2xCha to saves.

Int>Wis; use the increased knowledge skills to fuel Knowledge Devotion, and take Force of Personality to give your Will save Cha to Will saves...again.

Maybe Iaijutsu Master?

Just a few ideas...

[DruidAlanon]

Sorry for not helping, but the first player might be interested in Death master from Dragon Compendium.

Yes he is aware of the class. He probably won't play neither death master nor dread necro since he wants something more neutral. Thanks anyway!

[DruidAlanon]

Things I'll mention that make good combos for melee characters. Here's some tips to use together

Warblade+Knowledge Devotion, for lots of knowledge skills and lots of bonuses.

Paladin of Tyranny+Blackguard, for 2xCha to saves.

Int>Wis; use the increased knowledge skills to fuel Knowledge Devotion, and take Force of Personality to give your Will save Cha to Will saves...again.

Maybe Iaijutsu Master?

Just a few ideas...

I didn't know the Paladin of Tyranny+ Blackguard combo till today. It looks just fine so I'll probably go for it unless someone points out why I should prefer cleric+ bone knight.

[Ratatoskir]

Cleric+Boneknight will be more powerful, what with the stronger casting and all.