Can't have dire tortoise? :'(

[Lithium]

Hey, so I read the druids handbook awhile back and noticed the metion of the dire tortoise and feel inlove with the idea of riding one around as a druid. But earlier I was looking at companion choices and didn't find it. After some searching on the internet I found one person that mentioned you have to be an alternative desert druid. Is this true? Can I not get a dire tortoise as a standard druid or is there a work around? Or shall I just beg my DM and hope he is feeling generous?

[eggynack]

There's a full table with just about every animal companion option, including some that aren't listed as animal companions in their description, in the PHB II, page 41. Dire tortoise is on that list at 10th level, so it's fair game.

[Venger]

player's handbook 2, page 41. list of alternative animal companions. dire tortoise is a -9 modifier. there's no requirement to be a "desert druid" (there's no such thing) what you're thinking of is that the monster's printed in sandstorm, which is a desert themed book. you can pick it as a normal druid with no special considerations. enjoy always going first!

[Alent]

I'll leave the question to someone more familiar with the variant options than I, but it probably ought to be asked: Are you of an appropriate level to have a 14 HD pet?

If you are, it can't hurt to ask your DM. If you aren't, this question should probably wait until you are.

Edit: I knew I should have clicked preview, I must have clicked reply just before that first post went in.

[eggynack]

Here's no requirement to be a "desert druid" (there's no such thing).
He's actually referring to the "wasteland druid", which is on page 47, and which does indeed have the dire tortoise on its altered animal companion list.

[Venger]

He's actually referring to the "wasteland druid", which is on page 47, and which does indeed have the dire tortoise on its altered animal companion list.

oh, how interesting. PHB2 should've mentioned.

yeah, taking wasteland druid's a pretty good deal. you only give up stuff you don't care about anyway, plus you get to turn into cool stuff like giant enemy crab and leechwalker.

[eggynack]

oh, how interesting. PHB2 should've mentioned.
Perhaps, though it'd probably have to be on a separate table, or with some weird notation. Dire tortoise is on both lists, after all.

yeah, taking wasteland druid's a pretty good deal. you only give up stuff you don't care about anyway, plus you get to turn into cool stuff like giant enemy crab and leechwalker.
It's not bad, certainly. The animal companion list seems significantly worse, at least at early levels. The vermin wild shape does indeed look like the easiest way to get vermin forms though, ever since I found that awkward mention of the word "monstrous" next to vermin on the vestment of verminshape. Then again, the addition of "wasteland" to vermin also has some awkwardness.

The other two abilities are just kinda value neutral, as you noted, though I think it's wrong to completely discount them. Sure, neither the thing you're gaining nor the thing you're directly losing is particularly relevant, but resist nature's lure can be swapped for iron constitution at the very least, and that's awesome stuff.

[Venger]

Perhaps, though it'd probably have to be on a separate table, or with some weird notation. Dire tortoise is on both lists, after all.

It's not bad, certainly. The animal companion list seems significantly worse, at least at early levels. The vermin wild shape does indeed look like the easiest way to get vermin forms though, ever since I found that awkward mention of the word "monstrous" next to vermin on the vestment of verminshape. Then again, the addition of "wasteland" to vermin also has some awkwardness.

The other two abilities are just kinda value neutral, as you noted, though I think it's wrong to completely discount them. Sure, neither the thing you're gaining nor the thing you're directly losing is particularly relevant, but resist nature's lure can be swapped for iron constitution at the very least, and that's awesome stuff.

well, if OP's at a high enough level to be considering dire tortoise, the lackluster lower lvl ACs aren't as much of an issue.

"wasteland" may seem awkward, but there's no actual RAW definition, so the term is meaningless. besides, deserts are very diverse biomes, featuring underground caverns and oases, so you could totally find a crab to look at or a big pool of leeches shaped like a fat guy to WS into if your DM's one of those odd birds who makes a druid actually learn stuff before he morphs into monsters.

[Lithium]

Oh yes, wastelands. That was it.

Players handbook II, okay guess ill have to have a look. Never read it to be honest, thought it was just a reprint.

I'm not high enough level to takw one, just future planning ;
Thanks all.

[Venger]

Oh yes, wastelands. That was it.

Players handbook II, okay guess ill have to have a look. Never read it to be honest, thought it was just a reprint.

I'm not high enough level to takw one, just future planning ;
Thanks all.

PHB2 is not a reprint of PHB, it's a completely different book with all-new content. it's pretty great, I'd recommend you give it a look.

[eggynack]

well, if OP's at a high enough level to be considering dire tortoise, the lackluster lower lvl ACs aren't as much of an issue.
True enough. Dire tortoise is obviously never going to be a particularly bad choice, after all.


"wasteland" may seem awkward, but there's no actual RAW definition, so the term is meaningless.
That's the way I tend to figure it, yeah, but it seems like one of those things that could be tricky in an actual game context. In other words, you can become any vermin within the RAW, to all appearances, but the DM similarly wouldn't really be outside of the RAW to limit form choices down.

[Lithium]

PHB2 is not a reprint of PHB, it's a completely different book with all-new content. it's pretty great, I'd recommend you give it a look.

So noob question: so being newer is the 2nd PHB just the same with more stuff or is it meant as an extension? I ask this because I dont own any PHB (I borrow a friends) and wish to buy my own...would I have to but both? Or just get number 2.

[Extra Anchovies]

So noob question: so being newer is the 2nd PHB just the same with more stuff or is it meant as an extension? I ask this because I dont own any PHB (I borrow a friends) and wish to buy my own...would I have to but both? Or just get number 2.

It's an extension. New classes, new ACFs for PHB classes, a pile of pretty useful roleplaying tips for various classes, new feats, new spells, new things to do with your character. PHBII is great, but if you buy one, buy the normal PHB. It just feels good to have one.

[torrasque666]

Its its own book. It doesn't contain the character creation rules or as much of the equipment/feats/spells that the PHB does. Its no more an extension than any other splat book, and thus does not fall under "Core" for anyone who is playing in such a game. If you send me a PM I can tell you where you can get a copy of the PDF for cheap.

[Venger]

True enough. Dire tortoise is obviously never going to be a particularly bad choice, after all.


That's the way I tend to figure it, yeah, but it seems like one of those things that could be tricky in an actual game context. In other words, you can become any vermin within the RAW, to all appearances, but the DM similarly wouldn't really be outside of the RAW to limit form choices down.

yeah, that was my thought process as well.

well, I mean, in a real game, you'd just have a quick conversation with the DM, but any impositions he put on would be houserules. that's not to say they're bad, some houseruling is inevitable in a "practice" game of deeandee vs a "theory" game, which is what we talk about on the boards, since we don't know everyone's circumstances.

my point is that wasteland druid's benefits re:wildshape are already very restrictive since there's like 9 non-swarm vermin you can actually turn into, so the DM would have no rules-related reason to really need to block you from turning into vermin forms. they're hardly game-breaking and are more for lulz than to win the game. you're not going to kill any tarrasques as a monstrous crab.


So noob question: so being newer is the 2nd PHB just the same with more stuff or is it meant as an extension? I ask this because I dont own any PHB (I borrow a friends) and wish to buy my own...would I have to but both? Or just get number 2.

PHB2 is, despite the name, unrelated to PHB. just like sandstorm is a different, unrelated book from PHB, so too is PHB2. it's a cool book, and if the choice is between that and PHB and you like to pay money for things, buy it, since the PHB is all available legally for free on d20srd.

[Oddman80]

Besides introducing 11 new base classes, the PHB II focused primarily on helping players better define their characters. It gives suggestions of back story typologies, helps define character archrypes (personality vs. Class defined), introduces the character traits one can pick at level 1, for feature variation.... Basically, it provides a lot of methods that could help a player who always likes playing a Barbarians (or any other class for that matter) come up with completely unique characters each time, instead of just playing Steve, or Steve's identical Twin, or Steve's first cousin....

In addition to PHB II, the book Unearthed Arcana also provided some incredible class and character variations. That said... Neither of those two books spend much time on the rules of the game. So if you were ever wanting a book that can be used as a resource for new players... The core Players Handbook is the way to go.

[Psyren]

What Venger said - if you can only buy one, get PHB2, because PHB1's stuff is legally available online for free.

[HMS Invincible]

And here I thought the op was complaining the dm banned the sand tortoise. Which any DM should. Free surprise round should never be allowed.

[Chronos]

The PHB2 only has four new classes, not 11. But yeah, it's a completely separate book, and it's pretty good.

And I'd never heard of using the Dire Tortoise as an animal companion-- Most of the talk I'd seen of it was as a form to Wildshape (or Shapechange) into, for the surprise thing.

[Fouredged Sword]

Just remember to make sure to give it a form of flight. Nothing beats riding into combat on a hover turtle.

[eggynack]

And here I thought the op was complaining the dm banned the sand tortoise. Which any DM should. Free surprise round should never be allowed.
Not really as important as the other stuff in this situation, I think. Yeah, on the druid itself, an always surprise round is ridiculous, because you can cast spells during that time. The dire tortoise, by contrast, is getting in a standard attack at best, and often won't be getting that, because of the lack of move action. More interesting to my mind are the creature's ludicrous defensive stats, particularly that massive HP and AC, as well as its trampling ability that's strictly superior to that of any elephant. I don't think the lightning strike should be discounted completely, because it's quite powerful and unique, but the other stuff seems better.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, as a companion nothing stops it from still having a 2 int. Any int damage drops it like a rock. There is a reason why animals stop being threats after level 5 or so, regardless of their HD or AC.

[Chronos]

Eh, sky-high natural armor is exactly what a tortoise should have. It's not a problem as long as their offense is reasonable. Besides, by this level, most things have a way of ignoring natural armor, anyway.

[eggynack]

I'm mostly just citing stuff I find interesting about the creature from an animal companion perspective, rather than stuff that makes it worth banning. It's probably not worth banning, though it does seem somewhat stronger than other options of its level.

[Red Fel]

Just remember to make sure to give it a form of flight. Nothing beats riding into combat on a hover turtle.

... Friend to all children (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j51XdsXGjFQ)?

[Lithium]

Thanks all for the advice and all. I'm not sure if its op. Just thought a long living, slow and calm (makes it seem kinda wise for an animal) tortoise as a druids companion seems very fluffy as I will also be those things as a character :3 plus riding it looks awesome in my head.