Character Idea - Kobold Dual Wielding Oversize Gauntlets, Can it be done?

[unseenmage]

Have this idea of a little guy who can hold the line. Of a race normally kicked around doing the kicking. Of a Kobold with oversize gauntlets who cracks them together grinning devilishly before cracking skulls in a brawl.

And that's basically the whole idea for now. Not sure what level the game this character is for will be yet. Will update that info when I have it. Should be a 3.x game. Setting is Ravenloft, character has to be from any other setting. For now just looking for ideas and general discussion of how this might work.

I was looking earlier at a build idea of a dual dagger wielding kobold rogue (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5586.0). Not sure if the same stuff used for the daggers would work with the gauntlets though.

Edit: I prefer casters to martial characters so arcane-esque + rogue would be best.
Edit again: Info from DM is in, "Tier 3 and below only. That includes PrCs that would reproduce Tier 1-2 abilities like Ur-Priest.", also level 9 with xp and WBL between level 7 and 8 (am joining a game already long in progress).
Character must also be from another world, and I'm thinking the world of Highpoint from the Dragonmech books.

Am curious though where the Dragonmech classes fall on the tier scale.

[Gwendol]

I don't think you can use oversized gauntlets in that way. They just change the damage to lethal from unarmed strikes, and that is still determined by creature size.

[unseenmage]

I don't think you can use oversized gauntlets in that way. They just change the damage to lethal from unarmed strikes, and that is still determined by creature size.

Then that becomes the challenge I guess. How to work that idea in without undercutting the character's viability.

Isn't there a weapon enhancement that lets the weapon become larger somewhere? Maybe in 3.0?

[Astralia123]

Then that becomes the challenge I guess. How to work that idea in without undercutting the character's viability.

Isn't there a weapon enhancement that lets the weapon become larger somewhere? Maybe in 3.0?

Yes there is such a spell in Complete Series, maybe CAd, I can't recall that clearly. It's called Enlarge Weapon.

But the problem is it does not work on unarmed strike.

[Swaoeaeieu]

A warforged battlefist is descibed as an oversized gauntlet. But cobolds can't use components. Unless you replace your arms with mighty fist grafts or become a renegade mastermaker.

A kobold with robot arms. Sounds awsome.

[Averis Vol]

The balanced enchantment lets you wield a weapon made for a character a category larger than you. It's also a +2 enchantment, and that's kind of weenie. Since you prefer casters, pick yourself up greater mighty wallop and maybe go with an unseen seer build. You got your mitts, you got your rogueness, go punch stuff killer.

[Andezzar]

Just use spiked gauntlets. They have their own damage value, which will be increased with size. However an inappropriately sized spiked gauntlet will require more effort to wield than one of appropriate size. So the spiked gauntlets are no longer light but medium weapons, no more weapon finesse, -4 for dual wielding them etc. Not sure why you would want oversized gauntlets. d3 -> d4 is not that great an improvement.

[unseenmage]

The balanced enchantment lets you wield a weapon made for a character a category larger than you. It's also a +2 enchantment, and that's kind of weenie. Since you prefer casters, pick yourself up greater mighty wallop and maybe go with an unseen seer build. You got your mitts, you got your rogueness, go punch stuff killer.

Any chance I could get some sources for the things you're mentioning here? I like where you're going with it and would like to investigate further.


Just use spiked gauntlets. They have their own damage value, which will be increased with size. However an inappropriately sized spiked gauntlet will require more effort to wield than one of appropriate size. So the spiked gauntlets are no longer light but medium weapons, no more weapon finesse, -4 for dual wielding them etc. Not sure why you would want oversized gauntlets. d3 -> d4 is not that great an improvement.

Purely for the visual and the roleplaying. That and that Tier 3 character requirement makes it potentially viable.



Am looking at Spiked Gauntlets as suggested (seems I came to that conclusion as you were posting :smallsmile:) and am looking at Monkey Grip (CWa103), Wield Oversize Weapon (CWa153), and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (CAd111). Also adding Enlarge Weapon to my list of things to check out.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Hav you considered just asking if you can have oversized gauntlets with the stats of light maces? Small light maces have the stats of medium gauntlets, except they do a d4 instead of a d3.

[lytokk]

How would an unarmed swordsage work out? The gauntlets just look bigger, but you get the unarmed progression of monks? I'm not 100% on the RAW regarding gauntlets and unarmed attacks, other than it lets your strikes deal lethal. Its somewhat casteresque, with the whole maneuvers things.

[LTwerewolf]

Strongarm bracers are better than monkey grip.

[unseenmage]

Hav you considered just asking if you can have oversized gauntlets with the stats of light maces? Small light maces have the stats of medium gauntlets, except they do a d4 instead of a d3.

Nah, prefer to save my DM permissions for stuff that's more effective/important. :smallwink:


How would an unarmed swordsage work out? The gauntlets just look bigger, but you get the unarmed progression of monks? I'm not 100% on the RAW regarding gauntlets and unarmed attacks, other than it lets your strikes deal lethal. Its somewhat casteresque, with the whole maneuvers things.

Am currently avoiding the whole, 'Can unarmed strikes (and with them non-spiked gauntlets)' be enchanted, other materials, etc etc. That and have never done maneuvers and not really looking forward to it. Sorry. Thanks for the suggestion though.


Strongarm bracers are better than monkey grip.

Now this is going to sound snide but it's not, I'm genuinely curious; why not both?

[Andezzar]

Now this is going to sound snide but it's not, I'm genuinely curious; why not both?Because their benefits do not stack. Both allow the character to wield weapons appropriate for creatures one size larger than himself without increasing the effort of use. One with a penalty the other without.

[LTwerewolf]

Because their benefits do not stack. Both allow the character to wield weapons appropriate for creatures one size larger than himself without increasing the effort of use. One with a penalty the other without.

This, and not only because strongarm bracers don't give a penalty, but it also doesn't take up a precious feat slot either.

[Averis Vol]

Any chance I could get some sources for the things you're mentioning here? I like where you're going with it and would like to investigate further.


No problem chief, Balanced is from arms and equipment, a 3.0 supplement, and mighty wallop/greater mighty wallop is from races of the dragon. Also, it's a little expensive, but in complete warrior there's a gauntlet, that whenever you touch something, it deals 1d6+10 fire damage. It might be a nice supplement to the build a bit later on (its like 30k).

[Extra Anchovies]

Oversized gauntlets... so you basically want someone who uses these things:

http://www.country1067.com/files/hulksmashhands.jpg

[unseenmage]

No problem chief, Balanced is from arms and equipment, a 3.0 supplement, and mighty wallop/greater mighty wallop is from races of the dragon. Also, it's a little expensive, but in complete warrior there's a gauntlet, that whenever you touch something, it deals 1d6+10 fire damage. It might be a nice supplement to the build a bit later on (its like 30k).
Liking the fire gauntlets idea. Definitely keeping it in mind.

Will Balanced (AaEG) and Strongarm Bracers (MIC) stack?




Oversized gauntlets... so you basically want someone who uses these things:

http://www.country1067.com/files/hulksmashhands.jpg
Yes! Very much yes! Might even have to find myself a green special material metal to make them from just because of that pic. :smallbiggrin:

[Extra Anchovies]

Yes! Very much yes! Might even have to find myself a green special material metal to make them from just because of that pic. :smallbiggrin:

Possibly Starmetal?

[LTwerewolf]

Adamantine can possibly be green (as far as I am aware it's portrayed as several different colors in different places).

[unseenmage]

Possibly Starmetal?

Possibly. Thanks for the suggestion.
We'll have to see how much gp gets allotted for the gauntlets.


Thanks all for the suggestions and advice. Strongarm Bracers are looking like the simple solution. Would like to find a way to carry the biggest gauntlets possible though. But I'll take +1 size if that's all that's doable wihing the rules. (Without making the kobold bigger of course, that would defeat the point. :smallsmile:)

[ShurikVch]

Note: those large hands may be useful not just for punching
How about to make a grappler build?

Binder 6 (Improved Binding)
Knight of the Sacred Seal 4 - to bind Zagan, which allow you to grapple like you are Large-sized
Fierce Grappler 2 - "can hold and pin creatures up to two size categories larger than she is"
Add in Gloves of Titan’s Grip (14000 gp, +8 to grapple checks), some Strength increaser, and your Kobold will be able to wrestle titans!

[unseenmage]

Note: those large hands may be useful not just for punching
How about to make a grappler build?

Binder 6 (Improved Binding)
Knight of the Sacred Seal 4 - to bind Zagan, which allow you to grapple like you are Large-sized
Fierce Grappler 2 - "can hold and pin creatures up to two size categories larger than she is"
Add in Gloves of Titan’s Grip (14000 gp, +8 to grapple checks), some Strength increaser, and your Kobold will be able to wrestle titans!

That's a pretty cool idea. Might use that for another character. Thanks for the suggestion. Very much what I was looking for.