confuse theurge

[True believer]

Hello members !!!!


First of all i would like to say that i am very excited as i am a new member to this online community and this is my first thread :D


But lets cut to the chase

I am curently playing a 10th level character in a Forgotten realms campaign

My character: cleric3/wizard3/mystic theurge4

Abilities : STR: 12 DEX: 16 CON:14 INT:20 WIS:16 CHA:16

Feats : craft wand . twin spell , still spell , spell focus(trasmutation)


I am going to take my 11lvl as a Dweomerkeeper ( the one in the 3.0 edition faiths and pantheons book unfortunately ). And an extra feat due to a flaw that my dm granted me. So i will have to choose 2 feats and i am thinking to take Divine metamagic(twin) and chain spell.
The reason that i followed this built is due to the Role playing flavor that adds to my "true believer of Mystra" character


My original plan was to take all of my last 10 lvl as a Dweomerkeeper but know i am getting second thoughts!!!


I am considering the option of getting as soon as possible into the archmage prestige class but i really dont know if it is a good idea due to the "cleric options" of my character so far

Any thoughts or suggestions about my character's future progression ?


Thanks in advance for your time !!!

[Glimbur]

Archmage is ok, Dwemorkeeper is alright (and has some shenanigans with casting spells as Supernatural abilities), but at this point you lose quite a bit by not taking more levels of Mystic Theurge. You can't advance Mystic Theurge with Archmage or Dwemorkeeper, you would have to advance only wizard or cleric. And it's nice to have more spells and a higher caster level.

Divine Metamagic is often a good decision, because Turn Undead uses aren't terribly helpful (especially for you with an effective cleric level of 3 at ECL 9ish. Twin spell is a decent choice; it's pricey and doubling a high level spell once or maybe twice a day is not bad. Chain spell is great for casting buffs or other spells where the penalty save DC doesn't matter, look at Magic Vestment for example. You might want to get your caster level higher somehow, a Bead of Karma from prayer beads (magic item in core) or Practiced Spellcaster (feat) are options.

What's the rest of your party like?

[LTwerewolf]

Cleric/wizard tends you make you MAD, might i recommend archivist instead, which is less so. DCs based off int but extra spells still based off wis for whatever reason. The extra spells won't be so bad since as a theurge you'll have more than enough anyhow. Also if you go for bamboo spirit folk with the same build you can jump from MT to arcane hierophant and can get double 9's.

If you don't want to go with those and are sticking with cleric/wizard, sacred exorcist isn't a bad one. Dweomerkeeper is pretty thoroughly the strongest divine option though. If you're wanting to go into the arcane side I'd recommend incantatrix.

If you want double 9's without changing your build up, you can go for legacy champion in there, which you can use to advance your mystic theurge beyond the normal 10 levels.

[True believer]

What's the rest of your party like?


My party consists of : A 10th lvl cleric , a rogue/ninja and a Paladin

[Glimbur]

My party consists of : A 10th lvl cleric , a rogue/ninja and a Paladin

It's probably ok for you to focus more on being a Wizard then, so Archmage or similar PrCs are a bit more reasonable. They still won't progress your cleric casting though, which would be a shame, so if you want to go that way maybe skip the divine metamagic (it only works on divine spells). I'd advise taking Mystic Theurge to 10 and then asking your DM if you can extend it to 14 levels.

Archivist would have been a nice way to theurge, but it sounds like this is a pre-made character and honestly that might start being stronger than this game is ready for. Incantatrix is a solid wizard PrC, but it might be too good. Playing games with metamagic lets you become rather powerful.

Did you want more ideas on feats, or spell selection? We might also want to know what kind of adventures you typically go on; a dungeon crawling campaign calls for different spells than a nautical one or one based in a city.

[LTwerewolf]

Divine metamagic works if you're using alternate spell source as a MT. Also you might want to consider the initiate of mystra feat since you qualify for it. Basically it makes it so that you can cast in antimagic zones and in dead magic zones with a spellcraft check (which after a few levels is laughably easy to make) and give you access to anyspell and greater anyspell as regular spells and not domain spells, to fill in gaps when needed.

If you find yourself becoming too powerful in regards to the rest of the group, it's a simple enough solution to spending more of your spells on buffs and debuffs/battlefield control and letting the others get the glory.

[True believer]

Did you want more ideas on feats, or spell selection? We might also want to know what kind of adventures you typically go on; a dungeon crawling campaign calls for different spells than a nautical one or one based in a city.



Our campaign has to do with the resurrection of Bane ( we try to stop it ) so the divine elements are very strong in every session that we have!!


I would like more ideas about the classes that i could choose in the feature ! I know that the smartest idea is to go all the way with the theurge prestige but i would like to know my options.


I don't mind focusing on wizard so i will propably go for some Dweomerkeeper levels and then try to deep as soon as possible to the Archmage prestige!!!! Any ways to enter it as fast as i can ????


ps. The character is already in game for a while so no changes are allowed as considering the feats etc.

[True believer]

Also you might want to consider the initiate of mystra feat since you qualify for it.


I have already arrange to take this feat but i have let for later use since i cant cast antimagic field in that time!

I am also considering the Blessed of the seven sisters feat. As my character in the game is taking quests from the Alustriel herself the last 8 sessions.

[LTwerewolf]

Even if you can't cast it yet doesn't mean others can't. Level 11 wizards (as in probably a few levels under any BBEG you might face at this time) can cast it, which would shut you down (and they can send minions or blast you away from outside it). It's by no means a necessary feat, but any cleric that's worshipping mystra has no reason not to take it at 6 or 9 since it removes a serious weakness.

[Psyren]

You should know that the 3.5 Dweomerkeeper is available for free online. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)

Having said that, it will only progress your divine half, which defeats the purpose of being a theurge really. It's not the worst thing to finish your build with but it does mean your wizard half will be weaker than normal.

Personally, I would recommend an arcane/psionics or divine/psionics theurge instead of arcane/divine, as psionics plays support and also scales up more easily.

[Sith_Happens]

You should know that the 3.5 Dweomerkeeper is available for free online. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a)

Having said that, it will only progress your divine half, which defeats the purpose of being a theurge really.

Dweomerkeeper lets you pick which side to progress.

That said, once you've entered Mystic Theurge the smart thing to do is finish Mystic Theurge. Unless of course you can qualify for one of the "Mystic Theurge but with actual class features" classes.

[True believer]

So you suggest that the best thing that i have to do is to continue to advance as a mystic theurge ???




WIth the current feats , lvls etc what is the fastest way to enter the Archmage prestige class ?

[LTwerewolf]

Sine you've spent the time getting into MT to begin with, there's little that's going to do more for you than more MT until you can't. As far as to getting into archmage, you're lacking two feats: skill focus (spellcraft) and spell focus in a second school of magic. You'll also need 6 more arcane caster levels over what you have now to meet the prereq of 7th level spells. This can be accomplished by finishing MT. The amount of 5th or higher spells known is a super easy prereq to meet. The earliest you'll be looking at getting into archmage (assuming you meet the skill prereqs, you never listed your skills) is going to be 17.

[Chronos]

Speaking of the Bead of Karma, by the way, note that while you need to cast divine spells to be able to use it, it applies to all of your spellcasting. So that'll come in quite handy no matter which side you focus on.

[True believer]

is it a way to gain the trackless step feature with out taking any lvls to a new class ( feat for example ) in order to go for arcane hierophant after my mystic theurge lvls ????

[LTwerewolf]

Only druids, rangers, and bamboo spirit folk get it as far as I am aware, so no.