LGBTAI+ 53: The Nefarious Rainbow Syndicate

[Jaycemonde]

Welcome to the 53rd iteration of the LGBTAI thread!

Notice: This is mostly a support thread. There is an LGBTAI+ Q&A Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?356522-LGBTAI-Questions-Information-and-Discussion-thread!) right here.

The AI is for All-Inclusive because we have only so much space in the title, but everyone, regardless of orientation, direction, letter, acronym or chosen astrological symbol is welcome here!

We do, unfortunately, have a few rules. We are not an anarchist state! Or, we weren't until we voted we were? But shush.

1. We are primarily a support thread.
This means that the primary focus should be in helping people here feel better; about themselves, about their lives, about their problems. We are also an education thread, but when helping someone learn involves not supporting, we will default to support - Mostly. We are only mostly human, after all.

All of the other rules are basically precisions of rule #1.

2. If you want answers to triggering topics, spoiler-box or ask them privately.
Triggering topics are those which are likely to make other people feel bad, in any way whatsoever: for instance, rape, violence, bullying and many others may be triggering to some people. If someone, even just that one individual person, has a problem with a topic because it stirs demons best left in their pit, Do. Not. Bring. It. Up. Publicly. Use a spoiler box and think carefully about whether this is the place to broach the topic at all (see rule #1: "We are primarily a support thread.")

If you have questions or need help on something that involves triggering topics, please use spoiler tags and label your spoilers for trigger warnings. When in doubt, put trigger warnings.

3. Avoid discussing politics or religion.
It doesn't matter how much these two topics intersect with our forum topic, they are verboten. Sometimes, hints are...looked over, such as, "Man, in my country being gay sucks," but detail is right out, and even that could be considered willful disregard. Be careful. As the moderators themselves often say, if you aren't sure, don't.

4. Do not discuss moral justification.
No one here is going to discuss whether or not it's Right" or "Okay" to be LGBTAEIOUsometimesY or anything else. It's not topical, it's not relevant. We are, and we are here to cope with that and with the stresses it causes.
And no, my joking acronym doesn't constitute considering this rule less important.

5. Do not post sexually explicit content.
It's against forum rules, it's against decorum, and it will get us shut down pretty fast. What adults do behind closed doors is cool, and allusion is fine. Anything that could involve a diagram, though? No.

6. Avoid unfriendly debates.
Several topics of conversation have created huge arguments that made several people uncomfortable and defied our goal of being a support thread. This is especially true debates of definition. These do not always end well, and are best avoided.

This thread has a past of traumatic experiences which we would rather not repeat, and some topics which have created (in)famous rows include:
- the precise distinction between bi- and pansexual;
- what is or isn't a polyamorous relationship;
- whether transgender is more correct than transgendered.
(Other topics may be added to the list.)
Unless you need support or help about this, please refrain from bringing up these topics.

Also, if a conversation that is not about support runs long, spoiler it if possible, even if it is polite.

Glossary of Common Terms

For reference, here is a list of commonly-used words in our community along with their definitions. Please keep in mind that this vocabulary is constantly evolving and that this list may not be complete. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex/All-Inclusive

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender/Transsexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

GSRM: Gender, Sexuality, and Romantic Minorities; sometimes only GSM

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has its own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.

AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

Agender: Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Asexual: A person who does not feel sexual attraction.

Bigender: Someone who identifies as both male and female (or as any two genders) either simultaneously or alternating. See also Genderqueer, Genderfluid

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with them.

Dysphoria: The etymological opposite of "euphoria." A state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction. In this context, generally referring to the discomfort or dissociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: See: homosexual.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is neither male nor female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their own gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progesterone, estrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exclusively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Heterosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.


Private Consultation.

We have a list of people whoa re willing and able to discuss topics that may not be thread-appropriate but are still topical. They can be reached by Personal Message (PM), thought they may not respond immediately, or may be on sabbatical.


Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
Absol197: Gender identity issues.
Philemonite: Relationships, depression.
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype.
Chess435: Skype.
Eirala: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however).
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video).
Enrico Dandolo (Caroline): Trans stuff, mental health, feminism, asexuality, hugs, make-up advice. PM first, Skype chat if asked.
Golentan: Mental health, fluid and questioning sexualities, and issues arising from sexual trauma.
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones).
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen.
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting.
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality.
Kesnit: Trans stuff (FtM), legal issues.
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity.
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying.
Lix Lorn: General/basics.
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered.
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities.
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression.
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype.
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting.
Socratov: Skype-ness.
TaiLiu: General Transgender information, transphobia.
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions, Make-up advice.
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts.

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means; this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!

And as a parting note, I will say that even though moderators do not read PMs, they are still part of the forum and still subject to forums rules. Non-allowed topics and discussion should NOT be conducted via PM.


Previous Incarnations

Like the Glorious and Unconquered Sun, we have risen, lived, died, and risen anew, with many faces, many voices, many hearts. In this past, much can be found, both good, and bad, should one be brave or perhaps, foolish, enough to seek it.


LGBT people in the playground

LGBT people in the playground - part II

LGBTitp - part III

LGBTitp 4: We are a family?

LGBTitp - Part Five

LGBTitp - Part Six

LGBTitp - Part Seven

LGBTitp - Part Eight

LGBTitp - Part Nine

LGBTAitp - Part Ten

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen!

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit!

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK!

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca?

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins!

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!

LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program

LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within)

LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!

LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion!

LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow!

LGTAitP #34: <3!!

LGBTAitp #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3

LGBTAitp #36: May Contain Bites!

LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time...

LGBTAitP #38: Once More With Feeling!!

LGBTAitP #38: Making Your Way in the World Today....

LGBTAitP #40: Technicolour Partyboat

LGBTAitp #41 - Imprecise Terminology Supercenter

LGBTAitp #42: Better Than Skittles/The Meaning of Life!

LGBTAitp #43 [Insert snappy subtitle here]

LGBTAIitP #44: Quick, We Need To Vote A New Title!

LGBTAIitP #45: Rainbow Anarchy

LGBTAitP #46: I Cast Prismatic Hugs

LGBTAIitp #47: Weather Control Central

LGBTAIitp #48: For a Cuddly Tomorrow!

LGBTAIitp #49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road

LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This Thread Has Exceeded its Maximum Awesome Level

LGBTAI+ 51: Lay That Hammer Down!

LGBTAI+ 52: Aces High






Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.
Venus Envy. (http://www.venusenvycomic.com/) Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/first/) A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix. (http://www.khaoskomix.com/)As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. (http://alwaysraininghere.com/index.php/first-page/) "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you. (http://trippingoveryou.com/comic/gmorning-sunshine/)An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/) The LGBTA characters are fairly well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. (http://whatsnormalanyway.net/?p=93) "What’s Normal Anyway? is a comic that discusses the trans male experience through the story of Mel, who takes the big risk of being himself and transitioning from female to male."
Princess. (http://the-princess.funonthe.net/) A webcomic.
Twokinds. (http://twokinds.keenspot.com/) Keveak: "It generally portrays GRSM matters positively and is quite a nice tale overall."
Misfile (Misfile.com) The Rose Dragon: "Ash is a young boy who, as a result of a screw-up in Heaven, gets stuck in a girl's body in a life he doesn't recognize, and has to deal with the changes and challenges of his new body while trying to get back his old life. Supernatural hijinks and car racing are involved."
I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.


The Brand New LGBTA Arts & Crafts Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288941)

[Miriel]

Hey! Good morning, new thread :smallsmile:

Something I pulled yesterday: "I don't have a problem with allies. Many of my friends are allies!"

Aaaaand I wrote an article about youth, gender and clothing restrictions at school (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/10/16/clothing-restrictions-and-mature-patriarchy/). (I write a lot these days. Is there a problem with my sharing stuff all the time?)

[Grytorm]

New thread. Excellent. I told another of my friends yesterday. She was accepting. I feel I was a bit rude to her. Because she is a bit socially awkward and withdrew because I was trying to find a way to tell her privately. So someone started a weird conversation with me which ended up being about her sexuality (she is Pansexual). But I ended up writing a note saying I was questioning my gender. So it worked.

[Jormengand]

Yaaay thread.

[GrayGriffin]

Just noting that it might be useful to add romantic orientations to the list as well. Basically, any [blank]sexual orientation can have a corresponding [blank]romantic term.

[Kajhera]

Aaaaand I wrote an article about youth, gender and clothing restrictions at school (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/10/16/clothing-restrictions-and-mature-patriarchy/). (I write a lot these days. Is there a problem with my sharing stuff all the time?)

Appreciate your sharing, means I can come in and find stuff written by you without having to work out blog subscriptions ... :smallsmile: I'm bad at figuring out what to get by e-mail, as evidenced by the fact I now occasionally get e-mails regarding petitions in French. Whoops. ><

[The Succubus]

Hey! Good morning, new thread :smallsmile:

Something I pulled yesterday: "I don't have a problem with allies. Many of my friends are allies!"

As a friend of the family, this amuses me. :smalltongue:

[golentan]

A cute boy messaged me last night!

[Heliomance]

Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

[golentan]

Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

As long as we don't get it wet or feed it after midnight...

[Icewraith]

Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

Ideally, you want your group name to tell others who you are, not what people used to think of you or how they used to treat you. (Not saying there's no marginalization, but compare to ten, twenty, fifty and a hundred years ago. Openly gay people could be imprisoned and sterilized once upon a time and now courts are shooting down gay marriage bans like a flak cannon at a clay pigeon range over here. Teenagers in forty years may not have a clue which orientations are marginalized, or why anyone would bother marginalizing anyone over their orientation, but they'll know what LGBT means.)

Also, you want someone coming into the middle of a conversation to be able to tell that you're talking about a group of real-life people instead of a scifi/fantasy race they haven't yet run across.

Or possibly an organization of men named Moe. Or an organization of depressed men. The Moe Guys. Their symbol is a limp arrow hanging off a sadface emoticon.

[Jaycemonde]

Something I pulled yesterday: "I don't have a problem with allies. Many of my friends are allies!"

Nice.


(I write a lot these days. Is there a problem with my sharing stuff all the time?)

I don't think it's a problem. Maybe we can put your blog in the list of reading material.


Just noting that it might be useful to add romantic orientations to the list as well. Basically, any [blank]sexual orientation can have a corresponding [blank]romantic term.

That's a great idea, but I have no idea how to format stuff like that and I'm supposed to be spending the majority of my time today writing an essay. If someone else can throw this list of romantic orientations together and give it to me, I could just stick it in no problem.


Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

I like it. Personally, I think "Non-Traditional" would be more recognizable for other people, or perhaps just "Multiple" instead of "Marginalized", but that's all future stuff for the future when we aren't entirely marginalized. For now, it's perfect.


Or possibly an organization of men named Moe. Or an organization of depressed men. The Moe Guys. Their symbol is a limp arrow hanging off a sadface emoticon.

Okay, I have to admit that I giggled at that one.

[Jormengand]

I don't like the implication that we are, by necessity, marginalised or that that's what defines us.

[Jaycemonde]

That's why I prefer Non-Traditional (which still has a couple issues) or just Multiple.

[SiuiS]

Excellent title choice, sirs and madams and such. Eeexxceeeelent choice.


Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

I think it fails the basic test of immediate recognizability. If we are changing for accuracy, GSRM (gender sexual and romantic minorities) would work best.

Solves the issue of "gay doesn't mean homosexual, it means man who likes man" thing you get from having both gay and lesbian in the accronym...

[Septimus Faber]

Excellent title choice, sirs and madams and such. Eeexxceeeelent choice.

I know, right? I effectively gave a thread its subtitle! This is cause for celebration! *airpunches*

In other news, my family seems to be a lot more understanding of pansexuality now. So that's great.

[Coidzor]

Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

Gender Alignment makes me think of D&D, but there you go.

On the whole, like QUILTBAG, I can kinda see where it came from, but don't see much utility in choosing to use it over GS(R)M, if one is wanting to get into technical language. If it's not to get into technical language, then I've completely missed what niche it's aiming for.

Also, suspiciously close to Mogwai, as golentan has mentioned, and NoGays/NoGuys. Also Mo'Gays/Mo'Guys, come to think of it, though that's less suspicious, I suppose.

[Irish Musician]

Kind of proud of the city I work for, today. Added a bunch of LGBTAI stuff to our benefits program. Might not be perfect, but they are trying and that makes me happy.

As an inclusive employer, it is imperative we recognize the different family structures that exist within our organization and adapt by offering similar benefits to employees who have varied family units. Therefore, as of today, same gender married employees are able to take sick leave, bereavement leave, catastrophic illness leave and family medical leave (FMLA) for his/her spouse and children. Once verified by Human Resources, employees with domestic partners are eligible to use these leave benefits for their domestic partner (same and opposite gender) and/or domestic partner’s children.

In addition, effective January 1, 2015, the city will offer health benefits to same gender married couples, domestic partners (same and opposite gender) and their dependent children. Human Resources will conduct a special open enrollment period for domestic partners and same gender spouses December 1st-8th. Additional information regarding enrollment requirements will be released late November in preparation for the special open enrollment period.

Please see the enclosed Frequently Asked Questions for additional information and requirements regarding the City’s updated policies and benefit provisions. A webinar will be released next week for supervisors regarding the application of the aforementioned policies.

[The Succubus]

Hey folks.

As a couple of you may know, shortly after I started a counselling course in January with a view to becoming a gender therapist, I started receiving counselling to help with some personal issues. One of those was getting in touch with some of my more controlled feelings. After a session yesterday, which was very unsettling for me, I woke up this morning not feeling like myself.A couple of the people here helped me break out of that mood, for which I'm very grateful. The reason I mention it here is because towards the end of a nice evening with my brother-in-law, we flipped the TV on and *that* episode of South Park was on. I watched about 5 minutes of it before my brother-in-law changed channel but I felt furious - more angry than I'd felt in a long, long time. I'm only an ally - I have no real idea what's like to live as a transgender person, only via accounts from friends. If I felt that angry about the way trans people are portrayed in the media as an ally, I can't even imagine what some of you must feel like as trans people. I hope in time I can harness my anger and use it to change things for the better, even if it's only on a very small scale.

[Jaycemonde]

The few bits I've seen of that episode weren't actually all that bad. South Park presents things in a generally pretty gross way, of course, but there was a great deconstruction/analysis of that whole episode on Tumblr (I'll go find it and post it here later, in case anyone wants to see) that explains what it was going for.

And that's all I'll say on the matter, since it'll start arguments.

I'm happy to hear you're getting out of your funk, by the way.

[noparlpf]

Came across a new LGBT+ alternative acronym - MOGAI. Stands for Marginalised Orientations, Gender Alignments, and Intersex. What do people think?

I still prefer GSRM.


As long as we don't get it wet or feed it after midnight...

Yeah, there's that too.


RE: South Park:
I saw two frames on tumblr yesterday. They might have been from that episode? Something about how transphobes should have their own special bathroom to keep them away from the normal people who don't care which bathrooms trans people use.

[Heliomance]

Excellent title choice, sirs and madams and such. Eeexxceeeelent choice.



I think it fails the basic test of immediate recognizability. If we are changing for accuracy, GSRM (gender sexual and romantic minorities) would work best.

Solves the issue of "gay doesn't mean homosexual, it means man who likes man" thing you get from having both gay and lesbian in the accronym...

I don't know the accuracy, but I'm told that GSRM was originally coined as an attempt to roll paedophilia in under the umbrella. Apparently this is prompting a swing away from it. Iono.

[SiuiS]

Both LGBTAI and MOGAI already can cover pedophilia though. So logically that's a wash, and viscerally I've seen that only this once compared to the numerous descriptions of replacing the otherwise exclusionary alphabet soup.

*shrug*

E: someone brought up a thing.


what about HASOGI? (Harmless Alternative Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity)?

it covers both axises (sexual: gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, gender: transgender, agendered, so on....) while excluding pedophilia, because pedophilia is harmful, as well as excluding any other form of this that can be harmful to others.

[Grytorm]

Pardon me but does anybody know the word for when women after they were married would be removed from the public eye sort of. Their legal identity in a way absorbed. So Ms. Soandso would then be recorded as Mrs. Husbands Name. And property would enter the husbands possession maybe? I think I heard a term for it once and I wanted to use it in a paper on Frankenstein I am writing for a literature class.

[golentan]

Both LGBTAI and MOGAI already can cover pedophilia though. So logically that's a wash, and viscerally I've seen that only this once compared to the numerous descriptions of replacing the otherwise exclusionary alphabet soup.

*shrug*

E: someone brought up a thing.

Just to bring up, child abuse is harmful. Pedophilia is tragic. There's a difference.

[byzantineblue]

Sooo my mom freaked out at the thought of transitioning because of having to be on pills for the rest of my life, and it being bad for health and why can't I just figure out how to stop feeling dysphoric? I mean, I only want to transition because I'm uncomfortable with my body and the role I'm supposed to fit into in society! (Is that not a reason for wanting to transition though? Why else would you do it? Also I was sick as a kid and I've been taking pills of some kind or another since I was like seven so there's that...)

[Jaycemonde]

Just to bring up, child abuse is harmful. Pedophilia is tragic. There's a difference.

I turned eighteen a year before my boyfriend did. Seeing as we were in a long-distance relationship we couldn't really do anything normal couples do Ḥ̭̦̘̟O̝̥͉̯͚͟R͚̦̖͠RI͔̜͔͝BL̞͓̭̗̤͚̻E̛̖ ̳͎̬̯͔ͅA̰͍͈͕̕N̞̦͕͖̹D͓͍̞̰̗ ͘D҉̻̟̝ͅE̩̩̩͇̹̝P̹̮͇̟̮͎R̘̥̀A͕̻͖V̗E͕͓D̫̮̰ anyway, but it was a pretty tense year all around, since we had to be careful not to do anything we normally would be able to do, like flirt over the phone. We're both properly legal now, though. Point is, some borderline cases are stupid and shouldn't even count. I'm not going to comment on anything greater than a 17/18 difference, though. This is all I'll say on the matter.


Sooo my mom freaked out at the thought of transitioning because of having to be on pills for the rest of my life, and it being bad for health and why can't I just figure out how to stop feeling dysphoric? I mean, I only want to transition because I'm uncomfortable with my body and the role I'm supposed to fit into in society! (Is that not a reason for wanting to transition though? Why else would you do it? Also I was sick as a kid and I've been taking pills of some kind or another since I was like seven so there's that...)

Your mom sounds lovely. Sorry you have to go through that, I know how you feel.

[Irish Musician]

I turned eighteen a year before my boyfriend did. Seeing as we were in a long-distance relationship we couldn't really do anything normal couples do Ḥ̭̦̘̟O̝̥͉̯͚͟R͚̦̖͠RI͔̜͔͝BL̞͓̭̗̤͚̻E̛̖ ̳͎̬̯͔ͅA̰͍͈͕̕N̞̦͕͖̹D͓͍̞̰̗ ͘D҉̻̟̝ͅE̩̩̩͇̹̝P̹̮͇̟̮͎R̘̥̀A͕̻͖V̗E͕͓D̫̮̰ anyway, but it was a pretty tense year all around, since we had to be careful not to do anything we normally would be able to do, like flirt over the phone. We're both properly legal now, though. Point is, some borderline cases are stupid and shouldn't even count. I'm not going to comment on anything greater than a 17/18 difference, though. This is all I'll say on the matter.
From where I am from 1 year is perfectly legal.

On another note, I lovey our resident Goat!

@Blue - I am sorry, I hope internet hugz help :smallfrown:

M

[SiuiS]

Just to bring up, child abuse is harmful. Pedophilia is tragic. There's a difference.

I'm not endorsing either way and I don't think differentiating the word from what people think the word means is useful in the context of representing the layman opinion.


Sooo my mom freaked out at the thought of transitioning because of having to be on pills for the rest of my life, and it being bad for health and why can't I just figure out how to stop feeling dysphoric? I mean, I only want to transition because I'm uncomfortable with my body and the role I'm supposed to fit into in society! (Is that not a reason for wanting to transition though? Why else would you do it? Also I was sick as a kid and I've been taking pills of some kind or another since I was like seven so there's that...)

"Mom, guess what! I found out how to get rid of my dysphoria - FOREVER!

Taking a pill everyday.

In fact, it's so effective that it's the recommended treatment even by doctors who don't think my issues are even valid! How's that for endorsement! Guys who recognize the issue as existing and fixed by the thing they don't like. It's so good even they admit it's worth doing!"

[golentan]

I turned eighteen a year before my boyfriend did. Seeing as we were in a long-distance relationship we couldn't really do anything normal couples do Ḥ̭̦̘̟O̝̥͉̯͚͟R͚̦̖͠RI͔̜͔͝BL̞͓̭̗̤͚̻E̛̖ ̳͎̬̯͔ͅA̰͍͈͕̕N̞̦͕͖̹D͓͍̞̰̗ ͘D҉̻̟̝ͅE̩̩̩͇̹̝P̹̮͇̟̮͎R̘̥̀A͕̻͖V̗E͕͓D̫̮̰ anyway, but it was a pretty tense year all around, since we had to be careful not to do anything we normally would be able to do, like flirt over the phone. We're both properly legal now, though. Point is, some borderline cases are stupid and shouldn't even count. I'm not going to comment on anything greater than a 17/18 difference, though. This is all I'll say on the matter.


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[Mono Vertigo]

Hey folks.

As a couple of you may know, shortly after I started a counselling course in January with a view to becoming a gender therapist, I started receiving counselling to help with some personal issues. One of those was getting in touch with some of my more controlled feelings. After a session yesterday, which was very unsettling for me, I woke up this morning not feeling like myself.A couple of the people here helped me break out of that mood, for which I'm very grateful. The reason I mention it here is because towards the end of a nice evening with my brother-in-law, we flipped the TV on and *that* episode of South Park was on. I watched about 5 minutes of it before my brother-in-law changed channel but I felt furious - more angry than I'd felt in a long, long time. I'm only an ally - I have no real idea what's like to live as a transgender person, only via accounts from friends. If I felt that angry about the way trans people are portrayed in the media as an ally, I can't even imagine what some of you must feel like as trans people. I hope in time I can harness my anger and use it to change things for the better, even if it's only on a very small scale.

It's great to get news from you! Hope the rest of the counseling goes well and that you'll be able to deal smoothly with those personal issues of yours.

[noparlpf]

That's not what I was talking about.

There are people who are only attracted to prepubescents. That is literally their sexual orientation. That doesn't mean that they are child abusers, but it means the temptation is always there. I know a fellow who is literally only attracted to prepubescent children. The thing is, he loves kids and doesn't want to hurt them, so what he does is stay as far away from sources of temptation as he can. But it's really hard for them to get help with it: Imagine going to your parents or a therapist and saying "I think I'm a pedophile," that story in no way ends well and I'm sure nobody here has any trouble imagining being blanket condemned for their orientation. I'm guessing every one of us here has a story of either themselves or a close friend being ostracized or assaulted in some way due to their sexual orientation. Only a few years ago same sex relationships were illegal most places, and even today there are parts of the world where homosexuality as an orientation even without acts can land you a prison sentence. Imagine how much worse if that orientation was one where there was relatively good reason for the upset. Imagine if every source of sexual release outside of fantasy and a few forms of fiction was literally engaging in or playing accomplice to rape and/or child abuse.

I'm in no way defending child abusers or rapists here. I think that behavior is reprehensible and one of the most horrific crimes that you can perpetrate against a single human being, and someone that dangerous to a child needs to be locked where they can't hurt any other kids. But see, that's what I mean by tragic. The orientation or paraphilia or whatever the correct term is a constant lure towards evil, but that doesn't make the person a bad person. Proclivity towards violence does not make someone violent, as I can personally attest, and the idea of thoughtcrime for anything makes me squirm inside. And honestly, if resources were more available to help people struggling with intrinsic condemned qualities like pedophilia, perhaps we could cut down the numbers on child abuse. But the gut reaction, the hatred is so strong I don't see that happening. Not In My Backyard is in full effect with this sort of thing. I admit that my own immediate reaction is one of revulsion and fear.

It's also worth noting that many child molesters aren't even actually paedophiles.

[Marnath]

Am I going crazy or did the gender icons under our avatars get a lot smaller recently? :smallconfused:

[GrayGriffin]

Huh. I think they used to have a 3-d effect, but now they're just flat?

[Heliomance]

Whee!

So, I'm more than a little tipsy right now. Just got back from going out to a friend's birthay party. I... may... have confessed to her that I kinda fancy her, despite her having a boyfriend. I blame the alcohol. On the plus side, she doesn't have a probhlem with it, and said that my confession hasn't changed the way she feels about me (as a friend) at all, so I've got that going for me, which is nice. On the minus side, y'know, boyfrined. Ho hum.

Also, my feet really hurt. I'vere been wearing high heels all night. Ow.

[byzantineblue]

But seriously speaking -- is body dysphoria + societal discomfort not a perfectly normal reason to transition?

And Heliomance: At least you have that out of the way now?

[Jaycemonde]

But seriously speaking -- is body dysphoria + societal discomfort not a perfectly normal reason to transition?

It is, you have every right to transition because of it, and your mother sounds like a [probably well-meaning] idiot.

[Astrella]

But seriously speaking -- is body dysphoria + societal discomfort not a perfectly normal reason to transition?

And Heliomance: At least you have that out of the way now?

Course it is. :smallsmile:

[Jaycemonde]

i'm so tired of people telling me that i can't use labels i'm comfortable with because they "aren't correct"/"are dehumanizing" (it's not even bad, it's just used in a dry sense ffs), and that i'm not allowed to reclaim them and make them good ones to use because i don't have the proper body parts, and then acting like that's any different than telling a binary trans person they can't use their chosen pronouns because not having the right genitals makes them completely incapable of understanding.

[Miriel]

But seriously speaking -- is body dysphoria + societal discomfort not a perfectly normal reason to transition?
It's the reason basically everyone gives. So yes.

[Jormengand]

i'm so tired of people telling me that i can't use labels i'm comfortable with because they "aren't correct"/"are dehumanizing" (it's not even bad, it's just used in a dry sense ffs), and that i'm not allowed to reclaim them and make them good ones to use because i don't have the proper body parts, and then acting like that's any different than telling a binary trans person they can't use their chosen pronouns because not having the right genitals makes them completely incapable of understanding.

I had many fun times trying to convince the people on this forum that not extending the same rights to me as everyone else was in fact more dehumanising than using a pronoun that they didn't like.

I almost flipped when someone mentioned that they'd refuse to associate with someone who insisted on using that pronoun. :smallsigh:

[byzantineblue]

Are there any particularly odious side effects to HRT?

[Delusion]

Are there any particularly odious side effects to HRT?

Some are possible. I get migraines from them for example.

-------

Anyway! Next True Soul finally up! If anyone is still interested.

http://kirjotusvihe.deviantart.com/art/True-Soul-Part-15-The-Ceiling-489526619?ga_submit_new=10%253A1413753594

[unbeliever536]

Pardon me but does anybody know the word for when women after they were married would be removed from the public eye sort of. Their legal identity in a way absorbed. So Ms. Soandso would then be recorded as Mrs. Husbands Name. And property would enter the husbands possession maybe? I think I heard a term for it once and I wanted to use it in a paper on Frankenstein I am writing for a literature class.

Not sure if you still need it, but I believe the term (at least in British-descended common law) is "coverture".

[Zurvan]

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[noparlpf]

I don't get it... If that is true what is the diference between sexual orientation and fetish?

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[byzantineblue]

[QUOTE=Delusion;18282509]Some are possible. I get migraines from them for example.

That doesn't sound that bad. I meant like major life-threatening scary health issues

[noparlpf]

That doesn't sound that bad. I meant like major life-threatening scary health issues

Migraines suck butt. They're pretty bad.

Otherwise, well, hormones are things that the human body produces normally. Unless you get the dosage way off it shouldn't be life-threatening. But we can't give medical advice on this forum and anyway all we use spironolactone for in my profession are its diuretic and antihypertensive effects so you should really go talk to an endocrinologist.

[Kesnit]

That doesn't sound that bad. I meant like major life-threatening scary health issues

Yes. Synthetic testosterone has been linked to heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious medical issues that I can't think of right now. There's ads on TV notifying people that have been on testosterone and suffered medical issues that they may be entitled to compensation.

[SiuiS]

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[Jaycemonde]

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[Eldest]

But seriously speaking -- is body dysphoria + societal discomfort not a perfectly normal reason to transition?

And Heliomance: At least you have that out of the way now?

Yes. Transition is your right, even if you only felt like it and didn't have either of those problems. As for health problems, male to female transition shouldn't have any, IIRC (please ask somebody who knows for certain). It's only transmen that have to deal with the scariness of testosterone being a medical threat.


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[Irish Musician]

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[Comrade]

So today I've had the pleasure of dealing with people who think if transgender people are permitted to use the bathroom of their own gender, it will result in rampant sexual harassment, and when I spoke up against it, I was compared to a white supremacist and told that there's absolutely no barrier to me or any other transgender person being happy and that in fact my suffering shouldn't take precedence over their suffering, by which I mean the fact that they have to 'accept' me.

Today has just been the best ****ing day.

[Eldest]

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[Lentrax]

Everyone settle down, please. It's enough for the mods to come in brandishing their banhammers and Mr Clean Magic Erasers. So please, just settle down.

[Heliomance]

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[Coidzor]

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[byzantineblue]

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So today I've had the pleasure of dealing with people who think if transgender people are permitted to use the bathroom of their own gender, it will result in rampant sexual harassment, and when I spoke up against it, I was compared to a white supremacist and told that there's absolutely no barrier to me or any other transgender person being happy and that in fact my suffering shouldn't take precedence over their suffering, by which I mean the fact that they have to 'accept' me.

Today has just been the best ****ing day.

Oh, of course, let's ignore all the evidence and go with our gut instinct on everything. Go back to the good old ways of medieval Europe.

[Irish Musician]

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[SiuiS]

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[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Locked for review.

[SMEE]

The Rainbow Mod: Thread re-opened.

[Athedia]

Thank you for re-opening.

So asexual awareness week was last week and yet again the LGBTAI+ group on my campus didn't acknowledge it. But on the plus side some of my facebook friends posted something and that has never happened before.

[Jaycemonde]

I honestly thought this was going to stay closed forever.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Speaking of groups everyone forgets and their awareness week

Aromantic Awareness Week is coming up :)
(Also hey LGBTAI thread, it's been like a year)

[Miriel]

It was also intersex awareness week. During asexual awareness week, of course. They both need awareness so much that they don't know each other...

Anyway. While thread was down, I wrote a new article. It involves a comparison between neoliberalism and the Star Wars prequels, at some point.

[SiuiS]

It was also intersex awareness week. During asexual awareness week, of course. They both need awareness so much that they don't know each other...

Anyway. While thread was down, I wrote this article (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/10/30/please-care-about-austerity/). It involves a comparison between neoliberalism and the Star Wars prequels, at some point.

Consider, linking to your blog and saying you have a new article but not linking to the article, s'il vous plaît? I worry that a political stance so soon, even disconnected and undiscussed, would be in poor form.

[Jaycemonde]

I worry that a political stance so soon, even disconnected and undiscussed, would be in poor form.

Same.

ION:
I'm considering updating my info here to match the dysphoric/dissociative episode I've been having (the "robot mode" one, for those of you who don't know) but I'd have to change my name and we don't have a display name system here, nor the ability to change more than twice (iirc) or any faster than "once an admin sees the request two months from now". It's just really emotionally and mentally disorienting to try to present two personalities on two different sites, but I can't just leave while this is happening since I hate doing that and it's gross feeling to present one personality under another name. If that makes any sense whatsoever.
Advice would be welcome if it's worded nicely.

[Miriel]

Consider, linking to your blog and saying you have a new article but not linking to the article, s'il vous plaît? I worry that a political stance so soon, even disconnected and undiscussed, would be in poor form.
Oops, didn't think about that.

Anyway, if anyone wants to answer, I always prefer comments on the article itself. This way the other people who read my articles can read and answer as well.

[golentan]

It's good to have the thread back.

[Coidzor]

@Jaycemonde: The only thing I can think of would be something in your signature, perhaps an eye-catching image or banner or or sigatar.


Speaking of groups everyone forgets and their awareness week

Aromantic Awareness Week is coming up :)
(Also hey LGBTAI thread, it's been like a year)

The one beginning November 9th? Or the one that began today or tomorrow depending upon whether one feels the week begins with Sunday or Monday?

[RabbitHoleLost]

The one beginning November 9th? Or the one that began today or tomorrow depending upon whether one feels the week begins with Sunday or Monday?

10th-17th

It's all generally the same week, just shifted a day in either direction because people can't agree on what exact day it begins or ends.

I'm just glad we're not lumped in with Asexual Awareness Week anymore, since it was harmful to both groups for them to be connected.

[bluewind95]

Yay! Thread! I missed it lots!

Aromantic seems to be confused and mixed with asexual, yes. It's a real shame.

[Coidzor]

10th-17th

It's all generally the same week, just shifted a day in either direction because people can't agree on what exact day it begins or ends.

I'm just glad we're not lumped in with Asexual Awareness Week anymore, since it was harmful to both groups for them to be connected.

That's definitely one way to deal with that issue. Feels like a new one to me, but I'm sure I'm just forgetting something.

Yeah, that would be rather difficult to give shared billing without stabbing one in the foot.

[UltimateIRS]

Finally, the thread is back! Now I can say I'm an ace here.

[Heliomance]

Oh thank goodness! The thread's back!

Second charing cross appointment on Thursday!

[Lea Plath]

This thread need windows so I can swing in through one all dramatic like with a sword in my teeth or sumin.

Soooooo...lets see. Just got a new job with the City Council for better pay and hours. I'm about to go off South for a week and a bit to visit someone from the LGBT Skype Chat and also heading into London for Welcome to Night Vale.

Any threaders regulars at Dark Sphere in London by any chance? Considering a visit to there for cards.

Oh! And I'm experimenting with stuff to make me look more andro atm like hair styles and shaving body and stuff >.> Dunno how well that will go.

And to the people who I've not seen in a while *bites*

[Heliomance]

Oh! And I'm experimenting with stuff to make me look more andro atm like hair styles and shaving body and stuff >.> Dunno how well that will go.

...how does shaving your body make you look more andro? :smallconfused:

[Lea Plath]

...how does shaving your body make you look more andro? :smallconfused:

Just less obviously male. I've got arms and legs like a wookie. Without the added benefit of being able to pop the arms off people who point it out or don't let me win at holochess.

[Heliomance]

Oh, andro as in androgynous, not andro as in male. That's a very confusing abbreviation!

[Marnath]

10th-17th

It's all generally the same week, just shifted a day in either direction because people can't agree on what exact day it begins or ends.

I'm just glad we're not lumped in with Asexual Awareness Week anymore, since it was harmful to both groups for them to be connected.


Yay! Thread! I missed it lots!

Aromantic seems to be confused and mixed with asexual, yes. It's a real shame.


That's definitely one way to deal with that issue. Feels like a new one to me, but I'm sure I'm just forgetting something.

Yeah, that would be rather difficult to give shared billing without stabbing one in the foot.

As someone who fits into both categories, might I request some clarification as to why it's harmful to have awareness of both at once? :smallconfused: They're related thematically after all. Neutral, or point 0 if you will, on two different scales. It seems to me like it would be a great jumping off point for explaining the difference between sexual and romantic orientation for people who've never heard of that.


Finally, the thread is back! Now I can say I'm an ace here.

Welcome to the club!


Oh thank goodness! The thread's back!

Second charing cross appointment on Thursday!

Sweet, good luck to you!

[RabbitHoleLost]

Because while there is some overlap, oftentimes allosexual aromantics are lost in the sea of asexuals, who they don't relate with (and it's very alienating)

There are a lot of asexual queer romantics, as well, but asexuals deserve their own recognition, don't they? Instead of just being lumped in with other groups that have some similar experiences ("you have gay pride month and that should be enough for asexuals"), despite being two completely different things

Your romantic orientation is completely different from your sexual orientation and it's unhealthy to view and act otherwise

[Marnath]

Because while there is some overlap, oftentimes allosexual aromantics are lost in the sea of asexuals, who they don't relate with (and it's very alienating)

There are a lot of asexual queer romantics, as well, but asexuals deserve their own recognition, don't they? Instead of just being lumped in with other groups that have some similar experiences ("you have gay pride month and that should be enough for asexuals"), despite being two completely different things

I suppose that's fair. As a grey-ace aromantic, I probably intuit some overlap where there actually isn't any since It can be hard to tell which one is responsible for the various impulses which I apparently don't have.


Your romantic orientation is completely different from your sexual orientation and it's unhealthy to view and act otherwise

I wasn't trying to imply they're the same, I know sexuality and romance are separate. I meant that in each of their respective scales they represent the same place, the far end of the graph.

Unless you meant me specifically in which case I don't understand what you mean. O.o

[RabbitHoleLost]

I wasn't trying to imply they're the same, I know sexuality and romance are separate. I meant that in each of their respective scales they represent the same place, the far end of the graph.

Unless you meant me specifically in which case I don't understand what you mean. O.o
I meant generally - and I still stand by what I said.
Saying that they should carry the same Awareness week, or that they should be categorized together because they share the same place in their respective scales, is like stating that kinsey scale 0's (absolutely heterosexual) and asexuals come from the same place, or share the same thematics.

to be honest, I get a little aggressive over this because I've argued it and been minimized by asexual aromantics for as long as I've identified as a bisexual grayromantic (with heavy, heavy leanings towards aromantic), and it's actually fairly common for (and I'm not accusing you of this at all) asexual aromantics to throw allosexual aromantics "under the bus", so to say.
(the implications that allosexual aromantics are promiscuous, or that that's even a negative thing to begin with)

It's just very important, I think, for them to be recognized as two separate orientations that can sometimes overlap, but they can just as easily overlap with any other orientation (panromantic asexual, aromantic heterosexual, etc) and to encourage the idea that aromantics and asexuals goes hand in hand is setting up a "norm" that many people of both orientations don't fit in to
And, as I'm sure we all know, it's not pleasant nor healthy to feel like you're broken or wrong or deviant because you don't fit into the expected norms, even within an "umbrella" group like LGBTAI

(and, again, if this seems really aggressive, I apologize)

[noparlpf]

Yay! Thread! I missed it lots!

Aromantic seems to be confused and mixed with asexual, yes. It's a real shame.

They do overlap a lot of the time, so it's understandable. But yeah, it's good to spread awareness that they're not necessarily the same thing.

[Athedia]

As someone who fits into both categories, might I request some clarification as to why it's harmful to have awareness of both at once? :smallconfused: They're related thematically after all. Neutral, or point 0 if you will, on two different scales. It seems to me like it would be a great jumping off point for explaining the difference between sexual and romantic orientation for people who've never heard of that.

As someone who is ace, but not aromatic it does encourage some things that have lead to harassment. People assume they mean the same thing and putting them in the same week solidifies that belief. So they feel more justified when making quips about my (their quotes) "relationships" and insinuating that I am cruel for playing my SO if I have no feelings for them. I am not neutral on any scale, I am off of it entirely on one and smack dab in the middle of the other. Having them as two separate weeks has will stem some questions of "Wait, they aren't the same? What is the difference?" Which then leads to that jumping off point.

[Marnath]

I meant generally - and I still stand by what I said.
Saying that they should carry the same Awareness week, or that they should be categorized together because they share the same place in their respective scales, is like stating that kinsey scale 0's (absolutely heterosexual) and asexuals come from the same place, or share the same thematics.

to be honest, I get a little aggressive over this because I've argued it and been minimized by asexual aromantics for as long as I've identified as a bisexual grayromantic (with heavy, heavy leanings towards aromantic), and it's actually fairly common for (and I'm not accusing you of this at all) asexual aromantics to throw allosexual aromantics "under the bus", so to say.
(the implications that allosexual aromantics are promiscuous, or that that's even a negative thing to begin with)

It's just very important, I think, for them to be recognized as two separate orientations that can sometimes overlap, but they can just as easily overlap with any other orientation (panromantic asexual, aromantic heterosexual, etc) and to encourage the idea that aromantics and asexuals goes hand in hand is setting up a "norm" that many people of both orientations don't fit in to
And, as I'm sure we all know, it's not pleasant nor healthy to feel like you're broken or wrong or deviant because you don't fit into the expected norms, even within an "umbrella" group like LGBTAI

(and, again, if this seems really aggressive, I apologize)

Ah, I understand now. I think. I'm drawing a connection that isn't there because I'm part of a minority assuming that my experience is representative of the big picture. They don't go together, it's just a coincidence on my part.


As someone who is ace, but not aromatic it does encourage some things that have lead to harassment. People assume they mean the same thing and putting them in the same week solidifies that belief. So they feel more justified when making quips about my (their quotes) "relationships" and insinuating that I am cruel for playing my SO if I have no feelings for them. I am not neutral on any scale, I am off of it entirely on one and smack dab in the middle of the other. Having them as two separate weeks has will stem some questions of "Wait, they aren't the same? What is the difference?" Which then leads to that jumping off point.

That does sound more effective than tackling them simultaneously.

[Jaycemonde]

@Jaycemonde: The only thing I can think of would be something in your signature, perhaps an eye-catching image or banner or or sigatar.

I guess. I can't really imagine a great banner that effectively says "my current gender is robot". Just changing my profile picture wouldn't do much, and people seem to avoid reading signatures like the plague if they ever have useful information on them in my experience. Same with the little sidebars that contain personal info.


http://puu.sh/cC2gy/bd121a9a67.png

I understand they're different and all but could we please try to avoid anything that will cause a fight for at least a couple of pages? This thread was locked for too damn long the last time, I have a feeling that another blowout will just spell the end for us having a community here at all.

[Jormengand]

people seem to avoid reading signatures like the plague if they ever have useful information on them in my experience.

I'm still wondering if the purple in my sig isn't purple enough. Maybe replace it with lime green?

[Coidzor]

Oh, andro as in androgynous, not andro as in male. That's a very confusing abbreviation!

I had to re-read that series of posts a few times to get that myself. x.x


As someone who fits into both categories, might I request some clarification as to why it's harmful to have awareness of both at once? :smallconfused: They're related thematically after all. Neutral, or point 0 if you will, on two different scales. It seems to me like it would be a great jumping off point for explaining the difference between sexual and romantic orientation for people who've never heard of that.

Conflation of aromantic with asexual, so that asexuals with romantic sentiments get left out/painted as aberrant and erasure of non-asexual aromantics, painting them as aberrant/monsters/non-existent.

[Lentrax]

I'm still wondering if the purple in my sig isn't purple enough. Maybe replace it with lime green?

How about with the cutest purple evar!

On a more intimate note: I haven't had sex in some time now. Like a really long time. I mean, I chill with Anna for a bit, but that touch isn't physical, you know. I want to feel warmth against my naked flesh. Feel arms entwine to grab hold of me, limbs to squeeze me in harder. A mouth to crush, a tongue to dance. Feel the rhythm of passion.

So long since I knew how to dance...

[golentan]

I haven't had sex in some time now. Like a really long time. I mean, I chill with Anna for a bit, but that touch isn't physical, you know. I want to feel warmth against my naked flesh. Feel arms entwine to grab hold of me, limbs to squeeze me in harder. A mouth to crush, a tongue to dance. Feel the rhythm of passion.

So long since I knew how to dance...

I'm with you on that. I've never had a satisfying sex life*, and I'm in a bit of a dry spell right now. But for me, I want more just to have someone to hold me and cuddle at night, skin on skin and I don't care if there's sex involved. There's actually a term for it. Skin hunger. The need for physical affection.

*My sexually active periods tend to look like other people's dry spells.

[Grytorm]

I've started trying to be more open with the friends I have told about my gender identity (and lesser extent sexuality). Just referencing it more I guess. Trying to become less afraid. I also told them that I had crushes on them at some point in the past. I didn't mention I still kind of do. Why did one of them who is already dating a guy have to wear a thin white shirt with a bright blue bra?

Also is it at all creepy that I initially befriended several of my friends because I had a crush on them?


How about with the cutest purple evar!

An excellent shade of purple.

Edit: Also I need to look into my schools Gender Sexuality Alliance. I saw a sign but I don't know if they are having meetings yet or something.

[Comrade]

Had my first session with a gender therapist today, with my sisters. They did a fair bit of talking, but didn't interject or interrupt me, and even made an earnest effort at using the right pronouns when the therapist asked me straight off which I preferred. And the therapist herself was real nice, didn't get any sort of gatekeeper vibe from her. I'm pretty optimistic about where it's going.

[Marnath]

Had my first session with a gender therapist today, with my sisters. They did a fair bit of talking, but didn't interject or interrupt me, and even made an earnest effort at using the right pronouns when the therapist asked me straight off which I preferred. And the therapist herself was real nice, didn't get any sort of gatekeeper vibe from her. I'm pretty optimistic about where it's going.

Sweet! Glad to hear it went well. :smallsmile:

[Irish Musician]

Hello my alphabet soup lovelies. Glad to have the thread back!


Yay! Thread! I missed it lots!

Aromantic seems to be confused and mixed with asexual, yes. It's a real shame.
As a completely legit question that is in no way meant to offend, what is the difference? I know there is a crowbar of difference in gender and sexuality (so I have learned from you guys :smallsmile:), but I guess what is the specific differences in this case?

Had my first session with a gender therapist today, with my sisters. They did a fair bit of talking, but didn't interject or interrupt me, and even made an earnest effort at using the right pronouns when the therapist asked me straight off which I preferred. And the therapist herself was real nice, didn't get any sort of gatekeeper vibe from her. I'm pretty optimistic about where it's going.
I am glad for you! :smallbiggrin:

M

[Marnath]

As a completely legit question that is in no way meant to offend, what is the difference? I know there is a crowbar of difference in gender and sexuality (so I have learned from you guys :smallsmile:), but I guess what is the specific differences in this case?


Romantic orientation is the other side of sexual orientation. Being attracted to someone and being able to fall in love with them are different things. So asexuality can be "I don't want to do that with you" while aromantic(aromanticism? that doesn't sound like the right word but whatever) is more like "Sorry, I don't feel the same way about you, can't we just be friends?"


Of course that's a hideously simplified version of some very complex ideas and I can only speak for myself since I apparently don't understand the differences very well, since I have both.

[Iruka]

As a completely legit question that is in no way meant to offend, what is the difference? I know there is a crowbar of difference in gender and sexuality (so I have learned from you guys :smallsmile:), but I guess what is the specific differences in this case?


Pretty much what it says on the tin. It is the difference between sexual desire and romantic desire. For example an asexual, homoromantic person would fall in love with a member of the same gender, but be uninterested in having sex with them.
The romantic scale works like the sexual scale, so you can be a-/homo-/hetero-/...-romantic, while being completely independent from it. Kinda like the Law/Chaos and Good/Evil axis in D&D.

[Astrella]

Had my first session with a gender therapist today, with my sisters. They did a fair bit of talking, but didn't interject or interrupt me, and even made an earnest effort at using the right pronouns when the therapist asked me straight off which I preferred. And the therapist herself was real nice, didn't get any sort of gatekeeper vibe from her. I'm pretty optimistic about where it's going.

Glad it went well. :)

[noparlpf]

As a completely legit question that is in no way meant to offend, what is the difference? I know there is a crowbar of difference in gender and sexuality (so I have learned from you guys :smallsmile:), but I guess what is the specific differences in this case?

M

At this point I consider myself demisexual and gynoromantic. (And possibly also demiromantic? I'm still a little confused about whether that's even a necessary label or just another way that people develop romantic attraction anyway.) I'm rarely capable of romantic attraction to somebody, i.e., that person starts to hold a different sort of significance, I get super confused, stuff like that. But even in that situation, I'm still generally apathetic towards (if not repulsed by) the idea of sex, and I may not even necessarily find them particularly physically attractive at first. Later on I sort of slowly slide over into a more typical "straight" mindset, but only with respect to that individual, and not even consistently at that.
(I also apparently have a weird thing where sexual attraction provokes genital dysphoria. Didn't get far with that one on AVEN because a mod moved it to the gender board and fewer cis aces saw it, but it doesn't seem like that's particularly common even with sex-repulsed aces.)

Another example would be, say, my ex. She's heteroromantic asexual, possibly sex-repulsed, but last time we talked she didn't care enough to explore the identity, and I have no interest in attempting to re-initiate contact. Anyway. She develops crushes and romantic attraction fairly easily. She likes typical relationshippy stuff except for anything sexual, including kissing.

[bluewind95]

Yeah, it's like they said. There's the physical attraction and then there's the romantic attraction. I'm capable of the latter (and not even all that often), and incapable of the first.

It's great that you ask and all. Cos most of the time people just assume things (and some of them pretty nasty and wrong), and then I get told things like I "can't" be asexual because I am capable of romantic attraction. I honestly don't like it when people act like they know what I feel and am better than I do.


If I say "I'm asexual", honestly the last thing I want to hear is "no you're not cos you're not a bacteria"or "lol you're not a boy or girl?" (I swear. It's happened :smallsigh: ) or "no you're not, you're just traumatized" or "no you're not. Someone just really hurt you. What did they do to you?" or even the at least much more understandable "You feel romantic attraction and that's not asexual" (cos that at least is a more common and understandable misconception)

So yeah. Thanks for asking. Understanding is the first step towards better acceptance :smallbiggrin:

[Karen Lynn]

Just putting this out there: I got a full time job at a place that offers trans inclusive insurance. Jump through only a couple hoops(WPATH) and surgery is 80% covered.

[BladeofObliviom]

Yeah, it's like they said. There's the physical attraction and then there's the romantic attraction. I'm capable of the latter (and not even all that often), and incapable of the first.

It's great that you ask and all. Cos most of the time people just assume things (and some of them pretty nasty and wrong), and then I get told things like I "can't" be asexual because I am capable of romantic attraction. I honestly don't like it when people act like they know what I feel and am better than I do.


If I say "I'm asexual", honestly the last thing I want to hear is "no you're not cos you're not a bacteria"or "lol you're not a boy or girl?" (I swear. It's happened :smallsigh: ) or "no you're not, you're just traumatized" or "no you're not. Someone just really hurt you. What did they do to you?" or even the at least much more understandable "You feel romantic attraction and that's not asexual" (cos that at least is a more common and understandable misconception)

So yeah. Thanks for asking. Understanding is the first step towards better acceptance :smallbiggrin:

+1, though I tend toward Aromantic myself and the last bit tends to be less applicable to me directly.


In other news, I suffered from a minor nervous breakdown today and broke into a sobbing fit in the middle of my math class, then missed two classes while I was busy blubbering at my therapist over the phone in an impromptu safe space in the back seat of my car and trying not to make a mess with my nasal drippings.

...Not my best morning ever. :smallfrown:

(This has nothing to do with my queerness whatsoever aside from some contributing stress, but I needed somewhere to vent.)

[Icewraith]

Romantic orientation is the other side of sexual orientation. Being attracted to someone and being able to fall in love with them are different things. So asexuality can be "I don't want to do that with you" while aromantic(aromanticism? that doesn't sound like the right word but whatever) is more like "Sorry, I don't feel the same way about you, can't we just be friends?"


Of course that's a hideously simplified version of some very complex ideas and I can only speak for myself since I apparently don't understand the differences very well, since I have both.

Aromanticism, if I understand correctly, is "Sorry, I don't feel that way about ANYBODY, nothing to do with you."

"I don't feel the same way about you, can't we just be friends" needs further information to be able to assign a cause, and often the information is suspect because people try to spare each others' feelings. It can mean, and is often interpreted as, "I don't find you attractive" although it can really just mean "I don't have romantic feelings about you".

Regarding people attributing causes to aromanticism/asexuality, I'm sure there are forms of brain damage and emotional abuse etc that can result in someone being asexual, but the assumption that all ar/s (I am not typing that whole thing out) are that way only because they're damaged goods is fallacious (unless someone comes up with some very exhaustive research). I don't know if I would call that response a phobia, I imagine if someone is finding out about another person's ace-ness it's often because the first person has taken the risk of asking the other one out on a date or similar. It's a lot easier for people to accept differences in others (and ease the sting of rejection, even if it's not really rejection) if there's a known cause. Also, if there is repairable damage the person who liked the other person to the point of risking asking them out still has some small amount of hope that everything will magically turn on after enough chemicals or therapy.

Again, that is probably something that works for some ar/s cases but not others. It's not a reasonable or acceptable response from someone, but it is a response I can easily imagine a bruised ego and disappointed brain coming up with on the spot. Don't think of it as a super negative thing, think of it as a kind of weird compliment. The person is so into the ar/s person that their brain is flailing wildly trying to construct a universe in which the possibility of a relationship (or sex) still exists.

[bluewind95]

*snip*

Honestly, if only I were so lucky that the people who have told me that were just trying to nurse their bruised egos after rejection! But no, that's not the case. Pretty much everyone who's told me those things are people with no romantic stakes on me whatsoever. Just random people that know of it and say that it can't be possible because of whatever. There was the particular case of someone who didn't even know I'm asexual that started going on a rant about how all asexuals are damaged goods and there's nothing more basic than sex. I just sat there in horrified silence, because it wasn't even a person that'd be open to discourse on the subject.

[RabbitHoleLost]

People get unbelievably defensive about sex.
I think acephobia, unlike homophobia, really is a fear. People don't seem to understand the difference between celibacy and asexualism, and they falsely equate both with this sort of projected arrogance, as if the choice to not have sex (celibacy) or the inability to find someone sexually attractive is done with the intention of spiting those who do have sex/allosexuals.
They feel like celibate people or asexuals are judging them for having sex and being sexually attracted to other people, even if they've been given no reason to believe such a thing.

Of course, I say this as an grayromantic/aromantic bisexual, so my opinions are only based off of observation and not actual experience, as I've never participated on either side of such an exchange

[Irish Musician]

Thank you for all of your answers! I always try and educate myself, as it is an ongoing process, and y'all always help me out! :smallsmile:



Just putting this out there: I got a full time job at a place that offers trans inclusive insurance. Jump through only a couple hoops(WPATH) and surgery is 80% covered.
:smallbiggrin:

M

[Rain Dragon]

Hello again. I am so glad the thread returned (I fear each time it closes it's gone...)

I have a question. Does anyone have any tips for dealing with dysphoria at work? I am a salesperson and consistently having a hard time with it.


Just putting this out there: I got a full time job at a place that offers trans inclusive insurance. Jump through only a couple hoops(WPATH) and surgery is 80% covered.

Hurrah, that is great news! It is good to hear, Karen.


In other news, I suffered from a minor nervous breakdown today and broke into a sobbing fit in the middle of my math class, then missed two classes while I was busy blubbering at my therapist over the phone in an impromptu safe space in the back seat of my car and trying not to make a mess with my nasal drippings.

...Not my best morning ever. :smallfrown:

(This has nothing to do with my queerness whatsoever aside from some contributing stress, but I needed somewhere to vent.)

Well, my hope is that the rest of your day treats you well.
I would offer a cute picture of flowers or a kitten or something, but I am on a mobike device. Here is a cookie instead. :smallsmile:

(::)

[Astrella]

Do any other trans women ever feel like imposters / parodies? Just, often when I get gendered female I feel a mixture of joy and badness cause it almost feels as if I've tricked them somehow. :/

[Reality Glitch]

Hello Again! Wow, it's actually been ten whole threads since I was last here. Well, anything I should be caught up on?

[SiuiS]

Rock on Karen!


People get unbelievably defensive about sex.
I think acephobia, unlike homophobia, really is a fear. People don't seem to understand the difference between celibacy and asexualism, and they falsely equate both with this sort of projected arrogance, as if the choice to not have sex (celibacy) or the inability to find someone sexually attractive is done with the intention of spiting those who do have sex/allosexuals.
They feel like celibate people or asexuals are judging them for having sex and being sexually attracted to other people, even if they've been given no reason to believe such a thing.

Of course, I say this as an grayromantic/aromantic bisexual, so my opinions are only based off of observation and not actual experience, as I've never participated on either side of such an exchange

Aye. It doesn't help that as a defense measure, some asexuals do get very uppity about it and loudly proclaim that their lives without having to worry about sex are superior in all ways because they can focus on a fulfilling life without distraction, more logical becauE they think more, etc.

But from a binary point of view, yeah. It's totally fear.


Do any other trans women ever feel like imposters / parodies? Just, often when I get gendered female I feel a mixture of joy and badness cause it almost feels as if I've tricked them somehow. :/

Imposter syndrome! Hate that thing.

[Reality Glitch]

If I say "I'm asexual", honestly the last thing I want to hear is "no you're not cos you're not a bacteria"or "lol you're not a boy or girl?" (I swear. It's happened :smallsigh: ) or "no you're not, you're just traumatized" or "no you're not. Someone just really hurt you. What did they do to you?" or even the at least much more understandable "You feel romantic attraction and that's not asexual" (cos that at least is a more common and understandable misconception)
I've never dealt with that myself, then again I've never told anyone, then again it's never really come up in conversation until now. Still, I can see why it would be extremely frustrating.

[Coidzor]

Just putting this out there: I got a full time job at a place that offers trans inclusive insurance. Jump through only a couple hoops(WPATH) and surgery is 80% covered.

Woop Woop! :smallbiggrin: Congrats!


In other news, I suffered from a minor nervous breakdown today and broke into a sobbing fit in the middle of my math class, then missed two classes while I was busy blubbering at my therapist over the phone in an impromptu safe space in the back seat of my car and trying not to make a mess with my nasal drippings.

...Not my best morning ever. :smallfrown:

(This has nothing to do with my queerness whatsoever aside from some contributing stress, but I needed somewhere to vent.)

I'm sorry, mate. :smallfrown:


Aromanticism, if I understand correctly, is "Sorry, I don't feel that way about ANYBODY, nothing to do with you."

Sorries are probably undesirable though, I'd suggest leaving those out unless in one of the rare contexts where it might fit.


"I don't feel the same way about you, can't we just be friends" needs further information to be able to assign a cause, and often the information is suspect because people try to spare each others' feelings. It can mean, and is often interpreted as, "I don't find you attractive" although it can really just mean "I don't have romantic feelings about you".

Yeah... "I don't feel the same way about you, can't we just be friends" is a very... unfortunate/inauspicious construction, come to think of it.

[Karen Lynn]

How have people been? It's been a long time since last I darkened this thread. :P

[Jormengand]

How have people been? It's been a long time since last I darkened this thread. :P

Depressive and sleep-deprived. You?

[Serpentine]

As a completely legit question that is in no way meant to offend, what is the difference? I know there is a crowbar of difference in gender and sexuality (so I have learned from you guys :smallsmile:), but I guess what is the specific differences in this case?

I would put it this way: There are many different kinds of love. The main ones are
Familial love: the love one feels for a family member, not necessarily one of blood.
Platonic love: the love for a good friend, camaraderie.
Sexual love: not just lust and randiness, but physical attraction, desire, to be drawn to someone and wish to connect with them physically, the desire to be close to them and touch them and kiss them or even just to look at them.
Romantic love: the one most often used synonymously just with "love", that spark that makes you moon and swoon after someone, the desire to do and be good things for them, the desire to have and to give yourself to them, to be with them, to make some sort of commitment to them and have them do so in return. I'm not doing a particularly good job of explaining this one, but if you've been in (romantic) love, you know what I mean.

So, for me, I'm pretty okay at familial love. I don't often feel it very strongly, but it's certainly there for all my family members, and for at least one non-family member whom I really did start feeling for as for a brother (combined with bits of all the others, which was confusing).
I can TOTALLY do platonic love. I get what I call "friend-crushes", where I get a little bit obsessed with particular friends and crave their company despite my feelings being completely platonic. I can feel love for my friends as intense as any anyone has for a lover.
I definitely experience sexual love, I'm certainly not asexual. It ranges from having my heart go aflutter upon spying a sexy stranger, to feeling the need to express my affection for a really good friend in physical ways. I desire people, I want to touch them and make me feel good and have them touch me and make me feel good.
I am not so great at romantic love. I have been in love once, for 4 years in a relationship that ended 6 years ago. I have felt the spark of potential for possibly falling in love again 2 or 3 times since, despite knowing a dozen or more people who should have been absolutely perfect for me and who would have been glad to have me. I just don't feel that way for people, no matter how desperately I want to nor how much easier it would make my life.

I have found that platonic love mixed with sexual love for me can create enfatuation which I have mistaken for something like romantic love before. More often, others make the mistake for me, and feel I'm indicating romantic feelings I just don't have, no matter how strongly I feel about them sexually and platonically. I'm afraid that too often people think I'm wrong or lying, and I should just "give them a chance" (usually coming from people other than the would-be object of my affection), like I can just flick a switch or conjure up these specific feelings, or that I should get into a romantic relationship anyway "because the feelings might come later" despite my conviction to the contrary and the likely eventual heartbreak for the other person when, as predicted, the relationship comes to its inevitable close.
...that got kinda depressing, huh.

Anyway, tldr version: there's different types of love, asexuals don't do sexual love, aromantics don't do romantic love, and that results in different (if sometimes overlapping) experiences and interactions with others.

[Grytorm]

Do any other trans women ever feel like imposters / parodies? Just, often when I get gendered female I feel a mixture of joy and badness cause it almost feels as if I've tricked them somehow. :/

Yeah kind of. Not like you have with the feeling of trickery because I haven't really put any effort into appearing feminine. Fear mostly. But lately whenever I see myself in the mirror I see my face and my lips look kind of unnatural to me. They look reddish and I feel bad.

[golentan]

I'm really starting to think I'm some variety of intersex. Prenatal, the doctors indicated I was going to be female. On blood tests, I have low testosterone, high estrogen for a male. There's a chance that I'm a chimera, I may even have an ovary or two from my twin that wasn't.

Anyway, this is on my mind because I seem to be undergoing pseudocyesis.

[Reality Glitch]

I just Google'd pseudocyesis, and .... interesting, but as long as it doesn't cause problems I'd probably just wait for it to pass.

[Heliomance]

Do any other trans women ever feel like imposters / parodies? Just, often when I get gendered female I feel a mixture of joy and badness cause it almost feels as if I've tricked them somehow. :/

Ayup. Absolutely.

[Athedia]

Imposter syndrome! Hate that thing.

Hey that got brought up in a conversation with a professor! But he was talking about starting grad school....

[Skeppio]

Do any other trans women ever feel like imposters / parodies? Just, often when I get gendered female I feel a mixture of joy and badness cause it almost feels as if I've tricked them somehow. :/

Yes, constantly. It doesn't help that I look the least feminine by a mile out of any trans person I've ever met or seen a pic of, including fictional transgender characters.

[Reality Glitch]

Yes, constantly. It doesn't help that I look the least feminine by a mile out of any trans person I've ever met or seen a pic of, including fictional transgender characters.I'm not sure comparing one's self to a fictional character is the best baseline. Those people tend to be exaggerations and hyperbolas of whatever they're based on.

[GrayGriffin]

I'm not sure comparing one's self to a fictional character is the best baseline. Those people tend to be exaggerations and hyperbolas of whatever they're based on.

It's "hyperbole," actually. Hyperbolas are completely unrelated.

[Reality Glitch]

Oops! I assumed that was the proper plural when spellcheck suggested it.

[Skeppio]

I'm not sure comparing one's self to a fictional character is the best baseline. Those people tend to be exaggerations and hyperbolas of whatever they're based on.

I compare myself to real people I know, and I always come up dead last. Non-existant characters being superior to me is just the extra salt in the wound.

[Grytorm]

I went to a meeting of my schools GSA today. I hid in the corner the entire time.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I compare myself to real people I know, and I always come up dead last. Non-existant characters being superior to me is just the extra salt in the wound.
Fictional characters will always be superior in all aspects for everyone.
Not that it's even comparable, but I struggle with my weight and fictional characters who "struggle" with the same are always fairly small or built like Kat Dennings, who is curvy but still really small in the waist

Fiction is fantasy, plain and simple, and comparing ourselves to characters will leave everyone coming up short.

That said, I've no advice on comparing yourself to actual people :/

[Astrella]

I went to a meeting of my schools GSA today. I hid in the corner the entire time.

It's hard. Do they do one-on-one introductory meetings? I remember the queer organisation in my uni city making it possible to meet someone from them before events to put you at ease a bit and not dumping you in the big group from the start.

[Miriel]

Wrote something about accessible bathrooms (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/11/06/safe-accessible-and-gender-affirming-bathrooms-checklist/).

And...

So there's a huge upheaval here in Canada with #BeenRapedNeverReported. So... I told my story, about how, in one of my many abusive/exploitative friendships, my best friend touched me. It's a bad memory, a memory of fear. I had never told people before then, and now it's much easier to talk about it.

And by telling my story, it helped a wonderful friend of mine to tell hers. Link (http://storiesineedtotell.tumblr.com/post/101990722749). Reading hers helped me understand mine as well.

Anyway. Just wanted to share this. I don't have so much problems dealing with the memory. It's one of those I committed myself to forget, but failed, always. It's hard to talk about this. It makes it more present, but at least, now, I don't feel as wrong with that memory.

Hugs are appreciated.

[Jormengand]

*Hugs for Caroline.*

[Reality Glitch]

And...

~snip~*Hugs*

Hope you feel better.

[Grytorm]

*Hugs Caroline*

[Jaycemonde]

All the goat hugs for our resident columnist!

[Grytorm]

It's hard. Do they do one-on-one introductory meetings? I remember the queer organisation in my uni city making it possible to meet someone from them before events to put you at ease a bit and not dumping you in the big group from the start.

Oh it is possible and it was mentioned in the email I sent them. I guess I am still afraid about opening up to people and I still feel uncertain if I am correct about my gender identity much of the time. Especially when I am trying to or thinking about opening up to people.

[Reality Glitch]

There's nothing wrong with being in a nebulous grey area when trying to definitively and absolutely define one's self. I think the kind of people who would willingly attend such a meet-up, would be just as understanding about uncertainty as they are about being certain you're one of them.

[golentan]

There's nothing wrong with being in a nebulous grey area when trying to definitively and absolutely define one's self. I think the kind of people who would willingly attend such a meet-up, would be just as understanding about uncertainty as they are about being certain you're one of them.

Heck, I've been uncertain about my sexuality for at least a decade, and nobody's kicked me out of anything LGBT related. Even the time I decided to experiment with crossdressing because of the glitter ball as an excuse and in hindsight said some potentially tasteless things on the subject. It was well meaning though, and did confirm my love of dresses and skirts and other feminine clothing. As long as you're being honest and well meaning (by which I mean trying to find the right path for you without hurting other people) it's hard to go wrong.

[Grytorm]

Yeah they were very nice while I hid in my corner. So I know they will be accepting. I think the main reason I feel uncertain about things is because I don't have much space to experiment I guess.

[golentan]

I don't suppose anyone has any facts or figures about post-pubescent bilateral orchiectomy without hormone supplementation?

I haven't decided whether I have the desire for my kid (who I am looking forward to meeting very much) to carry on my gene line, my sexuality has been an endless source of frustration, I'm genderqueer and only go with male as the default because it takes less effort, and orchiectomy seems to have lots of health benefits in the dogs I've worked with. On the other hand, I don't want to give up certain physiological capabilities (I like sex and I like my genitals), and I don't want to go osteoporotic or gain a lot of weight, and it's kind of a permanent decision at this point.

[Astrella]

Oh it is possible and it was mentioned in the email I sent them. I guess I am still afraid about opening up to people and I still feel uncertain if I am correct about my gender identity much of the time. Especially when I am trying to or thinking about opening up to people.

Well, you don't have to have had figured stuff out, when I went to my first trans youth group years ago I didn't really know anything about my identity either. And uncertainty is okay, there's probably plenty of uncertain people there.

[Irish Musician]

snip
*all of the hugs* and lots of love, dear.


For a pick-me-up for anyone, stumbled upon this on Imgur this morning: http://imgur.com/gallery/ZO9j6

[CWater]

*sneaks out of the lurker corner*

...I feel kind of bad that I so rarely post comments to anyone else, and then come out from lurking only to post about myself. It... makes me feel like a kind of person that I wouldn't want to be like, if that makes sense. I follow the thread regularly and I often wish I came up with something to worth to say, or if I do, knew how to articulate it properly. If anyone has advice on this matter, it is appreciated.

Anyway... I talked to my dad a second time about being ace/demi today. He brought the subject up himself (I am amazed!) and talked long how many people in our family tree had apparently had quite little interest in romantic/sexual relationships (there were several who had never had anyone or only married late in life with few known previous relationships). I don't know these people myself (many of which are no longer with us) and so there is no way of knowing if they really were ace or demi, but it made me feel good that dad acknowledged the existence of this kind of people. In the end I even explained what a demisexual is and that I identify as one (I had only brought up asexuality before). And while he started the whole discussion by how it 'sounded sad' to him, in the end he clarified that that was his only his first reaction and that he would probably not think like that once he'd gotten used to the idea. So uh, it went quite well, I suppose.:smallsmile:

[Jaycemonde]

I'm really starting to think I'm some variety of intersex. Prenatal, the doctors indicated I was going to be female. On blood tests, I have low testosterone, high estrogen for a male. There's a chance that I'm a chimera, I may even have an ovary or two from my twin that wasn't.

Anyway, this is on my mind because I seem to be undergoing pseudocyesis...I don't suppose anyone has any facts or figures about post-pubescent bilateral orchiectomy without hormone supplementation?

I haven't decided whether I have the desire for my kid (who I am looking forward to meeting very much) to carry on my gene line, my sexuality has been an endless source of frustration, I'm genderqueer and only go with male as the default because it takes less effort, and orchiectomy seems to have lots of health benefits in the dogs I've worked with. On the other hand, I don't want to give up certain physiological capabilities (I like sex and I like my genitals), and I don't want to go osteoporotic or gain a lot of weight, and it's kind of a permanent decision at this point.

I know how you feel, Golentan (if there's a shorter nickname I could use, let me know?). I'm pretty much in the same boat, minus identifying as male like ever. I hate how primitive and backwards the current state of the tech is when it comes to fixing these kinds of issues, and as much as I get dysphoric episodes from all the secondary sex characteristics and the lack of things like ovaries, I really don't want to get rid of what I've already got down there, 'cause it'd just be swapping one missing part for another one, and the new one wouldn't even be working as intended. So, like, what's the point?

[Lentrax]

Wrote something about accessible bathrooms (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/11/06/safe-accessible-and-gender-affirming-bathrooms-checklist/).

And...

So there's a huge upheaval here in Canada with #BeenRapedNeverReported. So... I told my story, about how, in one of my many abusive/exploitative friendships, my best friend touched me. It's a bad memory, a memory of fear. I had never told people before then, and now it's much easier to talk about it.

And by telling my story, it helped a wonderful friend of mine to tell hers. Link (http://storiesineedtotell.tumblr.com/post/101990722749). Reading hers helped me understand mine as well.

Anyway. Just wanted to share this. I don't have so much problems dealing with the memory. It's one of those I committed myself to forget, but failed, always. It's hard to talk about this. It makes it more present, but at least, now, I don't feel as wrong with that memory.

Hugs are appreciated.

*all the hugs*

[Lycunadari]

I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.

[Miriel]

*Hugs for Caroline.*

*Hugs Caroline*

All the goat hugs for our resident columnist!
*all of the hugs* and lots of love, dear.

*all the hugs*
Thanks everyone for the support :smallsmile:


*Hugs*

Hope you feel better.
Yes, I do :smallsmile: Thanks!


I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.
Wow... *ethereal hug offer* I also have cookies and unicorns to spare.

[Reality Glitch]

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked. Double standards are the worst, and humans are still struggling with the numerous double standards that surround Gender. Though it has come a long way from the social cast system it used to be.

[Lentrax]

I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.

That is very disturbing, Lucy. I know you say you're okay now, but if you need to talk, message me, okay? I'm not always around, but I can give an ear and a friendly word if you need it.


Thanks everyone for the support :smallsmile:


Yes, I do :smallsmile: Thanks!


Wow... *ethereal hug offer* I also have cookies and unicorns to spare.

Same for you, Miriel. And for everyone. I am here to listen if anyone needs it. I don't pretend to have answers, or even a valid response.

But I love each of you enough to offer the words and smiles I do have.

[noparlpf]

I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.

Oh man, that's terrible. I'm sorry. I don't really know what else to say. I get the same feeling sometimes though so just reading along made my skin crawl. That must have felt feel awful.

[Miriel]

I wrote another little thing, this time on how sapiosexual is such a subsersive word (http://lucreziacontarini.com/2014/11/08/sapiosexuality-and-heterosexism/).


Same for you, Miriel. And for everyone. I am here to listen if anyone needs it. I don't pretend to have answers, or even a valid response.

But I love each of you enough to offer the words and smiles I do have.
:smallsmile: Thanks. It's appreciated, really. Right now, I'm doing fine, but I'll remember your invitation for sending messages. (It's reciprocal.)

[Astrella]

I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.

I'm really sorry you had to go through that, Juniper, it's really distressing and scary. Hope you can still manage to go to the botanical garden without this experience tainting it.

[golentan]

No info about orchiectomy?

[SiuiS]

Sorry hon, no. Try getting Karen on Skype? She had a lot of info on it I believe. Although, so did a few others? My memory is hazier than I thought. >_<

[Miriel]

No info about orchiectomy?

The only information I have is double orchi with female hormones.

Maybe there is information if you check sites about testicular cancer?

[golentan]

The only information I have is double orchi with female hormones.

Maybe there is information if you check sites about testicular cancer?

All the information I've found for that assumes taking testosterone to replace what's lost.

[Astrella]

All the information I've found for that assumes taking testosterone to replace what's lost.

I'm not sure if you'd find long term info about orchiectomy without some kind of sex hormone being added, maybe try looking for studies about eunuchs? The thing is that it's not that good body wise to not have a sex hormone in sufficient quantities so I imagine it's not very commonly done.

[Lycunadari]

Wow... *ethereal hug offer* I also have cookies and unicorns to spare.


That is very disturbing, Lucy. I know you say you're okay now, but if you need to talk, message me, okay? I'm not always around, but I can give an ear and a friendly word if you need it.



Same for you, Miriel. And for everyone. I am here to listen if anyone needs it. I don't pretend to have answers, or even a valid response.

But I love each of you enough to offer the words and smiles I do have.


Oh man, that's terrible. I'm sorry. I don't really know what else to say. I get the same feeling sometimes though so just reading along made my skin crawl. That must have felt feel awful.


I'm really sorry you had to go through that, Juniper, it's really distressing and scary. Hope you can still manage to go to the botanical garden without this experience tainting it.
Thank you all. I'm feeling better today, after sleeping nearly 11 hours. And knowing that I'm not just overreacting also helps.

[Grytorm]

No info about orchiectomy?

I don't really have any information. But I heard an article on the radio once about a study of Korean court documents from a long time ago that suggested that eunuchs on average live longer than uncastrated men. Not much but something I remember.

[Miriel]

All the information I've found for that assumes taking testosterone to replace what's lost.
Hum... Well, with estrogen and no testes, you can live a long and fulfilling life, anyway.


I'm not sure if you'd find long term info about orchiectomy without some kind of sex hormone being added, maybe try looking for studies about eunuchs? The thing is that it's not that good body wise to not have a sex hormone in sufficient quantities so I imagine it's not very commonly done.
Actually, now that I think about it, I remember hearing that eunuchs did live fairly well despite that. But I didn't verify the information.

It is probable that the results depend on when you do it, though.

[Athedia]

*sneaks out of the lurker corner*

...I feel kind of bad that I so rarely post comments to anyone else, and then come out from lurking only to post about myself. It... makes me feel like a kind of person that I wouldn't want to be like, if that makes sense. I follow the thread regularly and I often wish I came up with something to worth to say, or if I do, knew how to articulate it properly. If anyone has advice on this matter, it is appreciated.

Anyway... I talked to my dad a second time about being ace/demi today. He brought the subject up himself (I am amazed!) and talked long how many people in our family tree had apparently had quite little interest in romantic/sexual relationships (there were several who had never had anyone or only married late in life with few known previous relationships). I don't know these people myself (many of which are no longer with us) and so there is no way of knowing if they really were ace or demi, but it made me feel good that dad acknowledged the existence of this kind of people. In the end I even explained what a demisexual is and that I identify as one (I had only brought up asexuality before). And while he started the whole discussion by how it 'sounded sad' to him, in the end he clarified that that was his only his first reaction and that he would probably not think like that once he'd gotten used to the idea. So uh, it went quite well, I suppose.:smallsmile:

That sounds promising! And it is nice he is trying to connect a little more with understanding it.

[CWater]

I had an occurrence today, that got me thinking about privilege.

I was scammed and sexually assaulted today (don't worry, I'm fine now. Still shaken, but not hurt). I was visiting the botanical garden after I went grocery shopping and there was a guy who pretended to collect money for a charity for deaf/mute people. He didn't speak much himself and I don't know how much he could here. I don't want to tell the whole story, but he basically stole 15€ from me and hugged and kissed me on both cheeks twice before I could get away. I couldn't really defend myself because I had my grocerybag in my hand and my camera around my neck and because I coudn't really communicate with him I couldn't just tell him that NO, I don't want to donate that much, and stop touching me!
I was pretty shaken afterwards and sat down on a bench and cried. I really can't stand touch from strangers - things like getting a new haircut is already uncomfortable for me - and I have days where I don't even like family hugging me. So him hugging and kissing me was really bad. I felt like clawing my own skin away (I did scratch the back of my hand till it nearly started bleeding. Still hurts.) and the skin on my head felt really numb for a time. I cried the whole way back to my flat and broke down sobbing when I got home. Chatting with a few people and talking with my sister over skype helped thankfully, so now I'm mostly okay. I'm mostly sad that it happened at the botanical garden because that's usually a very happy place for me - just going there and meeting the plants and seeing the birds cheers me up. Now every visit there will be tainted. :smallfrown:

I also wondered – if I had passed as male, I might still have lost my money, but I probably wouldn't have been assaulted. Maybe I wouldn't even have been scammed - the guy probably wouldn't have picked a strange looking man, but instead chose the distracted looking "girl" (I had my earphones on and was singing to myself). And for a trans women, it probably would have been even more terrifying with the additional danger of being clocked.
I second the other posters, that sounds really terrible.:smallfrown: I really hope you'll be able to forget about it, and continue to enjoy visits to the garden.


Thank you all. I'm feeling better today, after sleeping nearly 11 hours. And knowing that I'm not just overreacting also helps.
This is good to hear.


That sounds promising! And it is nice he is trying to connect a little more with understanding it.

Yeah, it was nice of him. And it feels good that at least one of my parents can understand/accept my orientation and (hopefully) not 'feel sorry for me' because of it. (Unfortunately, it's unlikely that my mother ever will. Dad also thinks that she'll probably never get it.)

[golentan]

Anyone have advice on finding a full length, bohemian skirt? I tried looking at a couple department stores but they only seem to be carrying either feminine pants and a couple short skirts.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I dunno if you'd be comfortable with it, but I could make you one?
I have a pattern for a big boho styled skirt with a drawstring waistband

[GrayGriffin]

Yeah, it was nice of him. And it feels good that at least one of my parents can understand/accept my orientation and (hopefully) not 'feel sorry for me' because of it. (Unfortunately, it's unlikely that my mother ever will. Dad also thinks that she'll probably never get it.)

I'm happy for you. I wish I could also come out to my parents about being demisexual/romantic. While they would probably accept it hypothetically, I'm worried that they would ask where I learned those terms. They're super-religious Christians and casually homophobic, so I don't think it would go well.

But at least I can talk to people on the Internet about it, so that's good.

[Grytorm]

Any ideas how to find more time to try and figure myself out? At home it is kind of difficult. Although I could try hanging out in my skirt upstairs some more. Another thing would be to try and spend time at the GSa and I probably will start doing that.

Also about buying clothes. If I use my Debit will it probably show up as a suspicious charge that could get a call to my house that I don't want anyone picking up?

[golentan]

I dunno if you'd be comfortable with it, but I could make you one?
I have a pattern for a big boho styled skirt with a drawstring waistband

I appreciate the offer, but the logistics of it seem too complicated and fraught with peril. Payment and shipping and what have you.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I appreciate the offer, but the logistics of it seem too complicated and fraught with peril. Payment and shipping and what have you.

I was going to offer it as sort of a Winter Holiday gift, but I understand if you'd rather not :)

[golentan]

I was going to offer it as sort of a Winter Holiday gift, but I understand if you'd rather not :)

Very kind, but then I'd feel guilty about asking a gift from someone other than family or close friends, I wouldn't know how to reciprocate. Seriously, thank you for the offer, but it's too much.

[Coidzor]

Any ideas how to find more time to try and figure myself out? At home it is kind of difficult. Although I could try hanging out in my skirt upstairs some more. Another thing would be to try and spend time at the GSa and I probably will start doing that.

I'm not quite sure I follow the question you're trying to ask here, sorry.


Also about buying clothes. If I use my Debit will it probably show up as a suspicious charge that could get a call to my house that I don't want anyone picking up?

That depends upon your purchasing habits and financial institution, I believe. :smallconfused: My encounters with such things are that it's mostly about where the purchases happen and if a large sum of money is being spent quickly. If you're worried about a woman's clothing store coming up in your general payment history though, I suppose there's places which sell both forms of gendered clothing or even thrift shops for early experimentation.

[Iruka]

Any ideas how to find more time to try and figure myself out? At home it is kind of difficult. Although I could try hanging out in my skirt upstairs some more. Another thing would be to try and spend time at the GSa and I probably will start doing that.

Also about buying clothes. If I use my Debit will it probably show up as a suspicious charge that could get a call to my house that I don't want anyone picking up?

Is paying in cash not an option? I guess your bank would have to be raehr twitchy if they get worried about a moderate sum spent in a slightly unusual circumstance.

[noparlpf]

Also about buying clothes. If I use my Debit will it probably show up as a suspicious charge that could get a call to my house that I don't want anyone picking up?

Why is buying clothing suspicious? Even if it's a store that specifically caters to women (and loads of cheaper places sell both sorts of clothes), plenty of men buy clothes for women.

[Anarion]

Also about buying clothes. If I use my Debit will it probably show up as a suspicious charge that could get a call to my house that I don't want anyone picking up?

Oh, hey, I don't usually post here, but I happen to have some familiarity with debit/credit and can tell you a bit about this.

There are a couple things that can set off suspicious charge warnings when you're using a card, and none of them have to do with content of what you buy (as long as you're not buying illegal stuff). Remember, men buy things for women, women buy things for men, adults buy stuff for their kids, single people buy things for siblings, nieces and nephews, and so forth.

The number one thing that sets off suspicion is if you make the purchase from a weird location. Obviously someone on an IP address 2000 miles away from where you're supposed to live can do it, but sometimes even traveling a short distance is enough. If you're ever going somewhere that you don't normally visit outside of your hometown, you can call your bank and let them know where you're going and for how long so they won't raise any suspicions when they see charges from a new place.

Another thing that can sometimes do it is very frequent or very large purchases. This is somewhat variable. Every person who buys a plane ticket doesn't get a phone call from their card company even if they've only bought groceries and corner store items up to that point. But if you do place an outlandishly large order, it could trip it. I don't know any way to predict that, though, short of something wild like dropping $5,000 on a single order when you've never spent more than $100 before, or trying to do fifty or more transactions in a day.

With all that said, if you simply go to a store or on a computer and buy some nice clothes, regardless of gender, it's extremely unlikely to trip anything.

[Taet]

Anyone have advice on finding a full length, bohemian skirt? I tried looking at a couple department stores but they only seem to be carrying either feminine pants and a couple short skirts.
It is a surprise. But sports stores! :smalleek: Big sports stores have surfer clothes for sale and long skirts are a part of that I guess. And no incense so people who cannot go into hippie stores can go buy long skirts at the sports stores. The problem is it is the wrong time of year and everywhere is ski clothes and not surfer clothes. Even though it is so warm the trees are putting out new leaves. In November. :smallcool: So. Does anybody know where to buy shorts at this time of year? :smalleek:

[Castaras]

Anyone have advice on finding a full length, bohemian skirt? I tried looking at a couple department stores but they only seem to be carrying either feminine pants and a couple short skirts.

The best place in my city for long skirts is the market in the centre. I don't know if there's something similar near you but you could try these sort of farmers markets and stalls.

[Grytorm]

I just wasn't certain about the debit card thing. I probably will be able to use mine then. Payning in cash is kind of an option but I haven't had a lot of cash lately and debit makes it a bit easier. Thanks for the information.


I'm not quite sure I follow the question you're trying to ask here, sorry.

Sorry. It was an oddly worded question. Mostly I feel fairly confident about my gender identity but I want to feel more certain before telling my family. And it is hard to figure it out more if I don't have much space to try and figure things out in. Just wondering if their were any ideas on how to make a bit more space to be myself.

Also I am in a Sci Fi lit class and wrote a short paper on The Left Hand of Darkness and wondered if anyone might want to read it. In the grand scheme of things it probably isn't that original but it connects with the thread so I just felt like checking.

[Lycunadari]

Also I am in a Sci Fi lit class and wrote a short paper on The Left Hand of Darkness and wondered if anyone might want to read it. In the grand scheme of things it probably isn't that original but it connects with the thread so I just felt like checking.

I'm interested in your paper. :smallsmile: I've read the book a few years ago and I'd love to hear others opinions on it.

[Astrella]

I'm interested in your paper. :smallsmile: I've read the book a few years ago and I'd love to hear others opinions on it.

I haven't read it yet, but have been wanting to do so for quite a while.

[Grytorm]

Sure. I can post it. It still needs more work because I wasn't entirely up to date on the assignment but it seems decent.

Two are One
People are obsessed with duality. It is an expression of our desire to see order in the world. Ursula LeGuins The Left Hand of Darkness focuses much of its time on these dualities people observe in the world around them. The main ones hinted on in the book are the dualities of light and dark as well as the dualities of male and female. These two pairs are ultimately shown to be somewhat immaterial concepts. They are expressions of each other and expressions of a deeper truth. This interwoven duality is expressed explicitly in the case of light and darkness and implicitly in the case of gender through its parallels with illumination.

Light and darkness is a clear theme in the novel. There is the poem which provides the title which establishes united duality, “Light is the left hand of darkness and darkness is the right hand of light.” (pg 233). This concept of unity in opposites, that ultimately both light and dark is expressions of some greater truth is clear and later shown in their travels across the ice. “I came to long for snow, for blizzard, for anything: but morning after morning we came out of the tent into the void, the white weather, what Estraven called the Unshadow.” (pg 261). Here the white light takes the form of darkness. It is so bright it passes into a white night. Out on the ice the light is darkness and only with darkness can you see the way.

As above so below. The explicit merger of darkness and light implies a similar statement on the reality of gender. Because these two are parallel it suggests the idea to the reader that male and female are not only blended in this world but they also are in ours. “No. Yes. No, of course not, not really. But the difference is really important…. I can’t tell you what women are like.” (pg 234). Our dualities are incomprehensible. Genly Ai cannot say what the difference is because on a fundamental level everyone is human. Our shared humanity is what is important but to understand the world, to explain it to others we need these designs. The schema of gender is an important part of our lives but it is only an expression of our fundamental human nature.

The theme of our fundamental nature as humans is further emphasized by Genly Ai’s mission from the Ekumen. Throughout the story it returns to the specifics of his mission. That people always come alone to a new world. Near the beginning he states that it is to calm the locals. Make them treat the emissary with respect but not fear. But as the story progresses he wonders about this considers if it is to influence him rather than the newcomers. “When the rest of the envoys arrive Genly notes, “But they all looked strange to me, men and women, well as I knew them. Their voices sounded strange: too deep, too shrill. They were like a troop of great strange animals, of two different species; great apes with intelligent eyes, all of them in rut, in kemmer.” (pg 296). A stage of culture shock is to seek people like yourself. Whom speak with the same tongue. But Genly Ai is sent alone. All the better to see Estraven and the others as nothing more or less than people.

Ultimately The Left Hand of Darkness is a book about people. And deeper than that it is about men and women. How men and women ultimately are people. And the story shows this through the parallels it establishes between the duality of light and dark as well as the parallels between Genly’s quest to understand the Gethenians as people and how strange women are to him. But they are still people, still human.

Light is the left hand of darkness
And darkness is the right hand of light.
Two are one, life and death, lying
Together like lovers in kemmer,
Like hands joined together,
Like the end and the way.

[Zurvan]

Yeah so I'm very angry with myself today because my trans friend decided to come out to our friends and they had terrible reactions and I could not support her because I was afraid they would find out about my own sexuality.

So I stood there. Doing nothing while they said all those horrible things to her.

So right now she don't want to talk to me since she is very sad and disappointed. My other best friend well now ex-best friend is a homophobic jerk and my other friend is a 22 years guy who is depressed and suicidal(And thinks he is too old!!!). I never felt so alone. I never felt so bad not gfor doing soemthing qwrong... But by doing nothing and slowly losing all people that I care.

[golentan]

Yeah so I'm very angry with myself today because my trans friend decided to come out to our friends and they had terrible reactions and I could not support her because I was afraid they would find out about my own sexuality.

So I stood there. Doing nothing while they said all those horrible things to her.

So right now she don't want to talk to me since she is very sad and disappointed. My other best friend well now ex-best friend is a homophobic jerk and my other friend is a 22 years guy who is depressed and suicidal. I never felt so alone. I never felt so bad not gfor doing soemthing qwrong... But by doing nothing and slowly losing all people that I care.

Frankly, you should have stood up for her. Choosing not to act is itself a choice and an action.

[BladeofObliviom]

Yeah so I'm very angry with myself today because my trans friend decided to come out to our friends and they had terrible reactions and I could not support her because I was afraid they would find out about my own sexuality.

So I stood there. Doing nothing while they said all those horrible things to her.

So right now she don't want to talk to me since she is very sad and disappointed. My other best friend well now ex-best friend is a homophobic jerk and my other friend is a 22 years guy who is depressed and suicidal. I never felt so alone. I never felt so bad not for doing something wrong... But by doing nothing and slowly losing all people that I care.

Gosh, that's terrible! Internet Hugs are available if you want them. :smallfrown:

I'd suggest sending some kind of reassuring message to her if you can, like a text or something else she can read on her own terms. I know that I, at least, would be downright elated to learn that I still have someone left if I were feeling like everyone around me had rejected me.



Frankly, you should have stood up for her. Choosing not to act is itself a choice and an action.

You're not wrong, but I think Zurvan's perfectly aware of that (based on the "Angry with myself" bit) and intensifying regret doesn't help anyone.

[Zurvan]

I know I know! I regret so much... But it was so out of the blue. We were talking about perfume or something like that and then she decided it was time. I did not know how to react no one was prepared to and she started talking and talking and everyone was so...urgh it was terrible.

I think if she had chosen a more appropriate time. But now I know everyone will gossip about it and her father will end up...Urg I don't even want to think about it.

[Serpentine]

You need to forget everyone else, stop making it about yourself, and step up and reach out to her now. Call her up right now - or if it's too late or she's in class or something, send her a message and call her at the best appropriate time. And next time, do better.
When you talk to her, whatever you do, don't make it all about yourself - don't self-flaggelate, don't bang on about how sorry you are and how terrible a thing it was for you to do, and so on. Just apologise, assure her you intend to do better next time, ask her what support she would like, and ask her how she's doing.
And then maybe you can talk to her about your own issues with your sexuality, and you can both work through it all together, having each other's back.

[Zalphon]

Yeah so I'm very angry with myself today because my trans friend decided to come out to our friends and they had terrible reactions and I could not support her because I was afraid they would find out about my own sexuality.

So I stood there. Doing nothing while they said all those horrible things to her.

So right now she don't want to talk to me since she is very sad and disappointed. My other best friend well now ex-best friend is a homophobic jerk and my other friend is a 22 years guy who is depressed and suicidal(And thinks he is too old!!!). I never felt so alone. I never felt so bad not gfor doing soemthing qwrong... But by doing nothing and slowly losing all people that I care.

...Zurvan, don't blame yourself. You're only human and we all make mistakes, not that that was necessarily a mistake. You were afraid--don't blame yourself too harshly.

[The_Snark]

Call her up right now - or if it's too late or she's in class or something, send her a message and call her at the best appropriate time.

I'd suggest sending some kind of reassuring message to her if you can, like a text or something else she can read on her own terms. I know that I, at least, would be downright elated to learn that I still have someone left if I were feeling like everyone around me had rejected me.

This seems like good advice to me. If you can't stand up for your friend in public, that's... not ideal, but it's not the only thing you can do, and making sure that your friend knows you support her in private is better (for both of you) than berating yourself. If she's angry at/disappointed in you, an apology might be in order, but basically just make sure she knows she's not alone - you're scared, not unsupportive.

[Lex-Kat]

I agree with Serp completely. You really need to reach out to your friend as soon as possible. Let her know you are her friend, and apologize for not being there in her time of need. I don't think she will turn away a friendly voice, if all others have been nothing but abuse. Best of luck.

[golentan]

Also, it's not too late to stand up for her. Speak up on her behalf to the people who were cruel to her. Because, frankly, it's time to stop hiding and start standing up for what's right and for people who are vulnerable.

[Serpentine]

Random thought: the webcomic SMBC mixes up its panels so that some "couples" depicted are different sex, others are same sex, and some others the art style makes it unclear what some figures sex is meant to be. The creator, in other words, makes a point of including gay/bi people in his comic.
Let's say he'd also like to include transsexual or nonbinary people. His comics are all one-off jokes, so there's no long-running character development, and little information not essential to the punchline. Is there any reasonably easily understood, non-offensive visual cue that would allow him to expand the representativeness of his comics to include trans people?
I'd be interested to expand this to media in general, as well, to discuss ways trans people can be casually introduced to media to increase representation without it being a key plot/character point or a big deal. I imagine for live-action stuff having more trans actors would be a big step, but then you have a Catch-22 situation of there being not many trans actors and so what few trans characters there are often being played by cis people and then getting heavily criticised for them not being played by a trans actor so discouraging the inclusion of trans characters which reduces the opportunities for trans actors so there's not many trans actors so... But that doesn't really help my original example of something like SMBC anyway.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Zurvan: I know its scary when faced with the idea that you might be outed before you're ready to come out, but there are plenty of ways to stand up for you friend without outing yourself. There are, after all, plenty of allies who are heterocisnormative and who know well enough not to let such things pass
It's hard, but sometimes being a good friend is putting that self-preservation aside because, in the end, I don't think you'll be keeping those friends that said such horrible things to her today - and you'll need eachother and you'll need to stand in solidarity with eachother.

[Icewraith]

Yeah so I'm very angry with myself today because my trans friend decided to come out to our friends and they had terrible reactions and I could not support her because I was afraid they would find out about my own sexuality.

So I stood there. Doing nothing while they said all those horrible things to her.

So right now she don't want to talk to me since she is very sad and disappointed. My other best friend well now ex-best friend is a homophobic jerk and my other friend is a 22 years guy who is depressed and suicidal(And thinks he is too old!!!). I never felt so alone. I never felt so bad not gfor doing soemthing qwrong... But by doing nothing and slowly losing all people that I care.

The cost of not acting is often higher than the cost of acting. Now that you know, the best you can probably do is try and patch things up with your trans friend and not freeze up when this kind of thing comes up again.

If people are saying hurtful things, you can always use a line like "I don't care what's up with her, you shouldn't be saying that kind of thing about anyone."

If you get a "what are you, gay or something?" if you don't give it away with your facial expression you can respond with something like:

"Standing up for (person X) doesn't mean I'm gay, it means I'm still person X's friend."

[noparlpf]

Random thought: the webcomic SMBC mixes up its panels so that some "couples" depicted are different sex, others are same sex, and some others the art style makes it unclear what some figures sex is meant to be. The creator, in other words, makes a point of including gay/bi people in his comic.
Let's say he'd also like to include transsexual or nonbinary people. His comics are all one-off jokes, so there's no long-running character development, and little information not essential to the punchline. Is there any reasonably easily understood, non-offensive visual cue that would allow him to expand the representativeness of his comics to include trans people?
I'd be interested to expand this to media in general, as well, to discuss ways trans people can be casually introduced to media to increase representation without it being a key plot/character point or a big deal. I imagine for live-action stuff having more trans actors would be a big step, but then you have a Catch-22 situation of there being not many trans actors and so what few trans characters there are often being played by cis people and then getting heavily criticised for them not being played by a trans actor so discouraging the inclusion of trans characters which reduces the opportunities for trans actors so there's not many trans actors so... But that doesn't really help my original example of something like SMBC anyway.

Hmm. It'd be hard to do it in a non-stereotypical way. Maybe something small like a trans flag wristband (like some people wear rainbow wristbands)? Dunno. It's possible for a character to come out casually, but probably not well in the format of SMBC. (I'm also still worried where Questionable Content is going considering how easily the coming out scene went.)

[Serpentine]

The Australian program Four Corners is going to have an episode about a trans girl (http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/feature/four-corners-explores-what-it-s-like-growing-up-transgender-in-being-me-15672.html) next week. You should be able to watch it on iView (http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/four-corners/NC1404H042S00) if you want to.

[Lentrax]

So, I am seriously doubting my identity lately. And have wondered about even being around at all.
It doesn't help that I am so stressed out, and not sleeping well, and I just don't know about myself anymore.

[Grytorm]

That is really to bad Lentrax. Just the self doubt can be so frustrating. When you have no real way of figuring things out today and until you do you can't stop thinking about it. And lack of sleep is really annoying to. Hope things calm down a bit for you.

[golentan]

So, I am seriously doubting my identity lately. And have wondered about even being around at all.
It doesn't help that I am so stressed out, and not sleeping well, and I just don't know about myself anymore.

If you need a sympathetic ear... I like having you around.

[Grytorm]

That is a good idea. If you want me to I can talk to you to Lentrax. I might not have much experience helping people but I can listen. I would like to get better at that.

[Miriel]

So, I am seriously doubting my identity lately. And have wondered about even being around at all.
It doesn't help that I am so stressed out, and not sleeping well, and I just don't know about myself anymore.
I'm here if you need someone.

Otherwise, *hug*

[Astrella]

*offers hugs to Lentrax*

-----

I have so much guilt regarding being trans; I'm getting gendered female more often but it just makes me feel guilty cause I'm still dysphoric and still dislike stuff about my body. I feel guilty cause I'm depressed and isn't HRT supposed to make you feel good? Makes me feel like I'm not trans really.

[Lentrax]

That is really to bad Lentrax. Just the self doubt can be so frustrating. When you have no real way of figuring things out today and until you do you can't stop thinking about it. And lack of sleep is really annoying to. Hope things calm down a bit for you.


If you need a sympathetic ear... I like having you around.


That is a good idea. If you want me to I can talk to you to Lentrax. I might not have much experience helping people but I can listen. I would like to get better at that.


I'm here if you need someone.

Otherwise, *hug*


*offers hugs to Lentrax*

-----

I have so much guilt regarding being trans; I'm getting gendered female more often but it just makes me feel guilty cause I'm still dysphoric and still dislike stuff about my body. I feel guilty cause I'm depressed and isn't HRT supposed to make you feel good? Makes me feel like I'm not trans really.

Thanks everyone. I just don't know what I am doing anymore. I'm just lost right now. I'll probably be back to myself soon, but it just overwhelms me sometimes.

[Reality Glitch]

If its any help, I'd suggest inner reflection: think long and hard about what things enjoy or enjoy doing or that you believe defines you and make it your life goal to pursue one or more of those.

[Grytorm]

Sigh. Frustrating trying to hide my emotions from my family. If I feel awful I feel that I must hide that from them. I try to keep a neutral expression as I keep mentally gagging at my own reflection. Or when I feel good about myself, like I am enjoying the sensation of fresh shaved legs, and I feel that I must stop smiling or they will ask why. Frustrating.

[golentan]

Sigh. Frustrating trying to hide my emotions from my family. If I feel awful I feel that I must hide that from them. I try to keep a neutral expression as I keep mentally gagging at my own reflection. Or when I feel good about myself, like I am enjoying the sensation of fresh shaved legs, and I feel that I must stop smiling or they will ask why. Frustrating.

Why not come out to them?

[Grytorm]

Just because of a lack of confidence and because it is really scary. I know it is probably the best thing to do but it is hard to work up the nerve. Would make a lot of things simpler and get things moving.

[golentan]

Just because of a lack of confidence and because it is really scary. I know it is probably the best thing to do but it is hard to work up the nerve. Would make a lot of things simpler and get things moving.

There's a wise old cat saying that is applicable here... But you don't want to hear it right now.

What would help you work up the nerve? Bring in an ally, perhaps? Say you have something important to discuss but ask for time without being pushed while you work out how to say it? Memories of past triumphs? Write it as a note?

Remember, bravery is not the opposite of cowardice, but the overcoming of it.

[Kesnit]

I have so much guilt regarding being trans; I'm getting gendered female more often but it just makes me feel guilty cause I'm still dysphoric and still dislike stuff about my body. I feel guilty cause I'm depressed and isn't HRT supposed to make you feel good? Makes me feel like I'm not trans really.

Changing your mindset takes time. I just hit 8 years on hormones, and I still have moments where I hate something about my body. (They are really rare, but it happens.)

Also, HRT is NOT an anti-depressant. If you are depressed, that's a whole nother issue from being trans. (Part of your depression may come from being trans and the issues therein, but treating one does not mean treating the other.) Talk to a mental health professional, and maybe go on anti-depressants.

[Philemonite]

Guess who has a new username?:smallbiggrin:
It's so popular with the kids this days, so I did it too.
Jayce, can you change my name in the consulting list from Asteron Questar to Philemonite?

Since I haven't been following this thread for a few weeks (real life was happening, but now I'm better) I don't really know what's going on. Did I miss something?

[SiuiS]

So, I am seriously doubting my identity lately. And have wondered about even being around at all.
It doesn't help that I am so stressed out, and not sleeping well, and I just don't know about myself anymore.

*hugs* we understand.


Changing your mindset takes time. I just hit 8 years on hormones, and I still have moments where I hate something about my body. (They are really rare, but it happens.)

Also, HRT is NOT an anti-depressant. If you are depressed, that's a whole nother issue from being trans. (Part of your depression may come from being trans and the issues therein, but treating one does not mean treating the other.) Talk to a mental health professional, and maybe go on anti-depressants.

Good to know, thank you.

[SirAshley]

Hello, everyone. I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, if not, please forgive me and direct me to the correct place. I am a 24 year old, heterosexual male, with a 19 year old, homosexual younger brother. I am supportive of him in everything that he does, and aspires to do, and have always encouraged him to be true to himself. This includes his sexual orientation as well; I have never had a problem with him being homosexual, nor would I ever think badly of him for it.

With that being said, I am not sure he understands that. He very rarely will open up to me about any of the issues he may be having with other people in regards to any sort of ridicule, shaming, hostility, or even relationship problems with guys he may be seeing. I hear him many times talking to his friends over the phone that he feels like he has no one to talk to and no one that can understand him, and it breaks my heart that he doesn't see that I would do anything to help him. He is my little brother, after all. He is mine to protect and keep safe, to lift burdens from and to be a shoulder to lean on.

How do I go about showing him that he does in fact have someone he can go to when he is having these issues?

Edit: I realized after typing this, I don't know if "homosexual" is an appropriate term or an accepted one. Please forgive my lack of knowledge about your community, I'm just unfamiliar with any etiquette norms and will not mind a correction so I don't misstep. Thank you.

[Ifni]

Hello, everyone. I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, if not, please forgive me and direct me to the correct place. I am a 24 year old, heterosexual male, with a 19 year old, homosexual younger brother. I am supportive of him in everything that he does, and aspires to do, and have always encouraged him to be true to himself. This includes his sexual orientation as well; I have never had a problem with him being homosexual, nor would I ever think badly of him for it.

With that being said, I am not sure he understands that. He very rarely will open up to me about any of the issues he may be having with other people in regards to any sort of ridicule, shaming, hostility, or even relationship problems with guys he may be seeing. I hear him many times talking to his friends over the phone that he feels like he has no one to talk to and no one that can understand him, and it breaks my heart that he doesn't see that I would do anything to help him. He is my little brother, after all. He is mine to protect and keep safe, to lift burdens from and to be a shoulder to lean on.

How do I go about showing him that he does in fact have someone he can go to when he is having these issues?

Edit: I realized after typing this, I don't know if "homosexual" is an appropriate term or an accepted one. Please forgive my lack of knowledge about your community, I'm just unfamiliar with any etiquette norms and will not mind a correction so I don't misstep. Thank you.

Regarding your edit, "homosexual" is fine and not pejorative, at least as I understand it, although "gay" is probably slightly more common for everyday use.

There's also a Questions thread where you could post this - this is more of a support thread - but since you're just asking about how to be supportive, I think this thread is fine as well.

Regarding the actual issue... mm. Going to have to think about that one (and the actual gay men on the thread are probably better positioned to answer it than me). Is the rest of your family (parents, other relatives) generally supportive of your brother's orientation?

[SirAshley]

Regarding your edit, "homosexual" is fine and not pejorative, at least as I understand it, although "gay" is probably slightly more common for everyday use.

There's also a Questions thread where you could post this - this is more of a support thread - but since you're just asking about how to be supportive, I think this thread is fine as well.

Regarding the actual issue... mm. Going to have to think about that one (and the actual gay men on the thread are probably better positioned to answer it than me). Is the rest of your family (parents, other relatives) generally supportive of your brother's orientation?

Thank you. If I need to move this to the questions thread, I can do so, I may have just missed in when looking through the forums.

Regarding your question, some more detail would be required, I believe. My brother recently moved into my apartment with me after getting a part time job while in college. My mother generally doesn't care, and by generally, I mean that there are times that she struggles with her substance abuse problem, gets drunk, and rambles on about how he should just get over himself and marry a woman so she can have a grandchild. But...that is an entirely different subject and topic here, and an issue that I have taken the forefront on regarding familial relations there. My father travels with work a lot, so while he may not approve of his orientation, he has never made any outward comment as to such, but at the same time has just chosen to ignore the issue entirely. I believe this may be part of why my brother won't open up to me; I am the eldest son, and the "normal" son, though my father knows if he ever talked down to my brother about his orientation it would be World War III at the dinner table.

So, for a tl;dr version, no, our family is not supportive of him truly, but he is no longer living in a household with them, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

[SiuiS]

Hello, everyone. I'm not sure if this is the correct thread to post this in, if not, please forgive me and direct me to the correct place. I am a 24 year old, heterosexual male, with a 19 year old, homosexual younger brother. I am supportive of him in everything that he does, and aspires to do, and have always encouraged him to be true to himself. This includes his sexual orientation as well; I have never had a problem with him being homosexual, nor would I ever think badly of him for it.

With that being said, I am not sure he understands that. He very rarely will open up to me about any of the issues he may be having with other people in regards to any sort of ridicule, shaming, hostility, or even relationship problems with guys he may be seeing. I hear him many times talking to his friends over the phone that he feels like he has no one to talk to and no one that can understand him, and it breaks my heart that he doesn't see that I would do anything to help him. He is my little brother, after all. He is mine to protect and keep safe, to lift burdens from and to be a shoulder to lean on.

How do I go about showing him that he does in fact have someone he can go to when he is having these issues?

Edit: I realized after typing this, I don't know if "homosexual" is an appropriate term or an accepted one. Please forgive my lack of knowledge about your community, I'm just unfamiliar with any etiquette norms and will not mind a correction so I don't misstep. Thank you.

Honestly? I think the issue is "19 year old male". That's two decades of societal conditioning telling him to take charge, man up, keep a stuff upper lip, hold his cards right to his vest and accept no charity because he should be a Bread Winner.

He's young. He's still trying to figure out who he is. He can't tell you until he knows, and that process is so deeply intimate and personal that it's rare for people to be open about it; I keep my wife at arm's length on issues of becoming because I couldn't stand even an iota of judgement or misunderstanding about something so core to me.

[SirAshley]

Honestly? I think the issue is "19 year old male". That's two decades of societal conditioning telling him to take charge, man up, keep a stuff upper lip, hold his cards right to his vest and accept no charity because he should be a Bread Winner.

He's young. He's still trying to figure out who he is. He can't tell you until he knows, and that process is so deeply intimate and personal that it's rare for people to be open about it; I keep my wife at arm's length on issues of becoming because I couldn't stand even an iota of judgement or misunderstanding about something so core to me.

I can understand that, and I really appreciate the perspective on the concerns. Perhaps I am simply expecting too much open conversation about something that is innately a personal journey and experience. I think perhaps that I am just thinking of my own teenage years, though I'm not far removed from them, it feels like I have grown up so much since then. But when I was going through a lot of my finding myself, I wished I could have had someone to talk to that wasn't my own age, and referencing familial situation again, that wasn't possible for me to do in any meaningful way. Maybe I'm expecting his teenage years to be similar, and am trying to reach too far. I'm not really sure, and I just don't know how to go forward. I realize that I may be just rambling here, and I apologize for that. I'm not trying to derail the thread, I just don't know if there's anything else I can do to help support my brother or to let him know that he doesn't need to be afraid of talking to me.

[golentan]

I can understand that, and I really appreciate the perspective on the concerns. Perhaps I am simply expecting too much open conversation about something that is innately a personal journey and experience. I think perhaps that I am just thinking of my own teenage years, though I'm not far removed from them, it feels like I have grown up so much since then. But when I was going through a lot of my finding myself, I wished I could have had someone to talk to that wasn't my own age, and referencing familial situation again, that wasn't possible for me to do in any meaningful way. Maybe I'm expecting his teenage years to be similar, and am trying to reach too far. I'm not really sure, and I just don't know how to go forward. I realize that I may be just rambling here, and I apologize for that. I'm not trying to derail the thread, I just don't know if there's anything else I can do to help support my brother or to let him know that he doesn't need to be afraid of talking to me.

Tell him flat out you support him? That's all I can think of. You seem good at open and honest communication, and genuinely care about him exactly as he is, tell him so.

[SiuiS]

I can understand that, and I really appreciate the perspective on the concerns. Perhaps I am simply expecting too much open conversation about something that is innately a personal journey and experience. I think perhaps that I am just thinking of my own teenage years, though I'm not far removed from them, it feels like I have grown up so much since then. But when I was going through a lot of my finding myself, I wished I could have had someone to talk to that wasn't my own age.

You know, I do too. But I also know I wouldn't have accepted that.

That age saw me slowly deviate from everything I had ever been, and I'm now gravitating back to who I was before all the harsh and often thoughtless lessons of highschool and college age humans. But it's the kind of plateau you can't get help climbing and won't want help with until is over, maybe. I have a XP worker In Fact. A wee sprat of 22, and his behaviors in certain situations are so obviously wrong to me, but I Can't tell him how or why. It's something he's going to go through and learn from and I just keep telling myself "he's young. He's so young" instead of getting frustrated.

I may be wrong though! Seek your brother's opinion? Or heck, introduce him to this thread and hope he stumbles on your posts. I know that there are some things that are easier to share with strangers than people you know well, because with people you know you must live with the consequences. Maybe he just needs some distance before he can accept you honestly care?


Tell him flat out you support him? That's all I can think of. You seem good at open and honest communication, and genuinely care about him exactly as he is, tell him so.

Good advice, this.

[SirAshley]

I am going to do exactly that. Rather than sit here and dwell on what I may or may not be doing wrong, I am just going to outright tell him that I am there for him no matter what. If he doesn't make much of a comment or reaction at that, at that point I will go ahead with what you were saying, SiuiS, and let him grow on his own without interfering. He will know openly and candidly once I make it clear that I am open to anything he wants to talk about, that if he ever needs somewhere to go, he might come to me. If he still needs time to work out his own identity by himself, then I'm not going to push the issue.

Thank you all for helping me try to support my brother. I really appreciate all of the advice that you have given.

[Reality Glitch]

Have you tried telling him that he can come to you with questions and you won't judge him for it? You say you think he doesn't understand that you understand, but (and this may be my aspy-lack-of-social-skills kicking in) if you really want him to tell it straight to his face in plan English (or whatever language he is most comfortable with).

[Comrade]

I hate to interject into this thread offering nothing of help to the other folks here talking about their problems, but... ugh. Today has just become such a ****fest. Started out great, spent some time with my family which I don't often do, talked with friends, etc. By the end of it, I was miserable because I'd had to deal with two people harassing me and deliberately misgendering me, feeling like **** because of my own stupid neuroses, and at the same time trying to not be useless and trying to help somebody else who was feeling unhappy.

And now I'm exhausted but I can't even sleep. :|

[SiuiS]

Deliberate misgendering is like any other bullying – an act of war.tell them to their face that it's clear they are doing something for the sole purpose of causing you distress, which is assault and will be punished accordingly.

[Reality Glitch]

Or you just tell the authorities. Though, from my personal experience they never do anything about it, no matter the problem.

[Lentrax]

That's why you tell them you are going to go to the authorities.

The threat of action often yields a greater result than the action alone.

Just remember, that should they fail to heed your warning, to follow through.

[Lycunadari]

Comrade, I'm sorry you have to go through that. *offers hugs and cookies*

SirAshley, you might have to tell your brother more than just once that you're there to support him. Don't pressure him or anything, just from time time a "You know you can always talk to me, okay?" or "Remember, I'm always there for you" when you feel like he's feeling down. I'm in a similar situation, just that I'm the younger sibling and I'm living alone while my sister moved back in with my parents. And when depression hits again or I'm just generally feeling lonely or afraid, I tend to forget that I'm not alone and that I can actually talk with my awesome sister and don't have to deal with my problems alone. So from time to time, especially when she notices that I've uploaded another depressed poem or painting on deviantArt or I had another fight with my mother, she reminds me that she's there, and she cares about me and I can always talk to her if I want to.

[Astrella]

*hugs for Comrade*

-----

The Belgian government is (hopefully) going to remove the sterilization requirement for a legal gender change soon now. (Article is in Dutch, not sure if google translate manages to make it readable.) (http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/regering-wil-komaf-maken-met-verplichte-sterilisatie-transgenders-a2114405/)


Changing your mindset takes time. I just hit 8 years on hormones, and I still have moments where I hate something about my body. (They are really rare, but it happens.)

Also, HRT is NOT an anti-depressant. If you are depressed, that's a whole nother issue from being trans. (Part of your depression may come from being trans and the issues therein, but treating one does not mean treating the other.) Talk to a mental health professional, and maybe go on anti-depressants.

I'm sorta on anti-depressants though. I'm on Cymbalta (an SNRI) for my anxiety issues, but it's also used to treat depression. It's just, iunno, not working that well I guess. And my parents guilt trip me a lot about my mental health and don't want me to see my anxiety therapist anymore. :/

[Lentrax]

*hugs for Comrade*

-----

The Belgian government is (hopefully) going to remove the sterilization requirement for a legal gender change soon now. (Article is in Dutch, not sure if google translate manages to make it readable.) (http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/regering-wil-komaf-maken-met-verplichte-sterilisatie-transgenders-a2114405/)



I'm sorta on anti-depressants though. I'm on Cymbalta (an SNRI) for my anxiety issues, but it's also used to treat depression. It's just, iunno, not working that well I guess. And my parents guilt trip me a lot about my mental health and don't want me to see my anxiety therapist anymore. :/

Pretty sure you should keep seeing the therapist, hon. Gotta keep working on that anxienty.

Which brings up a valid concern I have. My area lists several practices out here for people with my issue. Some of those even offer services through their staff for some of the other programs I had. I want to talk to one of them(have to if I ever wants prayer of getting hormones,)

My question though, is when do I bring up that I am trans?

[Kesnit]

I'm sorta on anti-depressants though. I'm on Cymbalta (an SNRI) for my anxiety issues, but it's also used to treat depression. It's just, iunno, not working that well I guess.

There's varying doses. If the dose you are on isn't working, talk to your doctor to get it adjusted. I was on Cymbalta several years ago. Starting dose was 30mg, then up to 60 after a few weeks. 60, however, made me twitchy, so the doctor cut me back to 40.


Which brings up a valid concern I have. My area lists several practices out here for people with my issue. Some of those even offer services through their staff for some of the other programs I had. I want to talk to one of them(have to if I ever wants prayer of getting hormones,)

My question though, is when do I bring up that I am trans?

As soon as you call, before you make an appointment. The last thing you want to do is put yourself and the therapist in the awkward position of being uncomfortable once you do come out.

When I was looking for a therapist, I made a list of ones covered by my insurance in order of distance from my house. Then I started calling, making sure I mentioned that I am (was, at the time) a lesbian.* One place turned out to be a Christian counseling center. The person who answered the phone said they could see me, but it was clear from her tone that she was weirded out by the thought. I hung up and moved on to the next name on my list.




* To avoid confusion people, this was pre-transition.

[Jaycemonde]

Jayce, can you change my name in the consulting list from Asteron Questar to Philemonite?

Sure, as soon as I have access to an actual computer and not just my phone. I don't want to try editing such a gargantuan post on this tiny touchscreen, especially with the horrible mess of spilled java that is vBulletin.

EDIT: Fixed.

[Serpentine]

I'm sorta on anti-depressants though. I'm on Cymbalta (an SNRI) for my anxiety issues, but it's also used to treat depression. It's just, iunno, not working that well I guess. And my parents guilt trip me a lot about my mental health and don't want me to see my anxiety therapist anymore. :/Your parents are messed up. Until they suddenly become decent human beings, any time they say some crap like that and you find yourself wondering if maybe they're right, imagine my voice in your ear whispering, "of course they're ****ing not, they're mental cases, and the sooner you can get out from under their thumbs and away from their poison the better off all of you will be". Let me know and I'll call you up and tell you myself if the imagined whisper is too soft.

[Heliomance]

Your parents are messed up. Until they suddenly become decent human beings, any time they say some crap like that and you find yourself wondering if maybe they're right, imagine my voice in your ear whispering, "of course they're ****ing not, they're mental cases, and the sooner you can get out from under their thumbs and away from their poison the better off all of you will be". Let me know and I'll call you up and tell you myself if the imagined whisper is too soft.

Serps, you're awesome :smallbiggrin:

[Grytorm]

I wonder why I did not really experience much dysphoria before I began questioning my gender. Strange how it changes over time. Lately it often manifests as an icky feeling. Where moving reminds me of my body. Sometimes it is overwhelming frustration with hair. Sometimes other things. Very confusing.

[SiuiS]

Or you just tell the authorities. Though, from my personal experience they never do anything about it, no matter the problem.

My thoughts on this are complex. While I approve of proper channels to keep society moving, proper channels are not separate in any way from the biases of human foible. Even the forum here has it's foibles, we just consider them acceptable costs for the social groups and rules at play.

But human nature has it's default states. We must strive to rise above the common denominator but we must never forget that it exists.




SirAshley, you might have to tell your brother more than just once that you're there to support him.

Yes. Make your love the constant background radiation of his life.



I'm sorta on anti-depressants though. I'm on Cymbalta (an SNRI) for my anxiety issues, but it's also used to treat depression. It's just, iunno, not working that well I guess. And my parents guilt trip me a lot about my mental health and don't want me to see my anxiety therapist anymore. :/

Your parents are gas lighting you. Logically, why would they heckle you about a trait (which causes anxiety) and also tell you to stop seeking help for it?

This is called change back behavior. They are trying to quell you and make you revert to a prior state they are more comfortable with. It's a natural tendency but it is also ethically wrong. Your life should not be molded to allow your parents to stay in a rut.

I'm with Serps.


Sure, as soon as I have access to an actual computer and not just my phone. I don't want to try editing such a gargantuan post on this tiny touchscreen, especially with the horrible mess of spilled java that is vBulletin.

EDIT: Fixed.

Heh.


I wonder why I did not really experience much dysphoria before I began questioning my gender. Strange how it changes over time. Lately it often manifests as an icky feeling. Where moving reminds me of my body. Sometimes it is overwhelming frustration with hair. Sometimes other things. Very confusing.

Who knows? Maybe it wasn't there, maybe it was just channeled differently, maybe it did happen and you just repressed it? I did. The amount of trouble I had with gender was staggering when I remember it but I was really good at compartmentalization and getting through my day without it affecting me.

It could also just be like you don't miss something until you realize it's gone. I also do that; it's hard not to be a pack rat when I go through boxes and the old things I don't need and had forgotten about but now I can't bear to throw away. XD

[Heliomance]

I am gaining hair on my chest and losing hair on my head. I do not consider this a fair trade.

[golentan]

My tastes have taken another turn towards the masculine, but the gay men I know have basically told me that while they're willing to bang they don't want to date me. It's... frustrating. Nobody likes me that way, with the exception of people who aren't anywhere near me.

[Astrella]

I wonder why I did not really experience much dysphoria before I began questioning my gender. Strange how it changes over time. Lately it often manifests as an icky feeling. Where moving reminds me of my body. Sometimes it is overwhelming frustration with hair. Sometimes other things. Very confusing.

I noticed that too mew. Like, being able to put a name on something makes it a lot more real you know?

[Orcus The Vile]

Ummm... Hi?

Well I'm new here so... Hello.

Also I guess I'm gay.

Forgive my english. Hope we get along.

[Philemonite]

Sure, as soon as I have access to an actual computer and not just my phone. I don't want to try editing such a gargantuan post on this tiny touchscreen, especially with the horrible mess of spilled java that is vBulletin.

EDIT: Fixed.

Thanks.:smallbiggrin:


Ummm... Hi?

Well I'm new here so... Hello.

Also I guess I'm gay.

Forgive my english. Hope we get along.

I think Matthew does this better, but:

WELCOME!!!!!!!


Nice to see another gay guy here. Not that I don't like all the other folk here.
Also, nice avatar.:smallwink:

[Reality Glitch]

Ummm... Hi?

Well I'm new here so... Hello.

Also I guess I'm gay.

Forgive my english. Hope we get along.As Philemonite said, welcome. This is a place of acceptance, so there really shouldn't be a problem with getting along with us; as for your english, it looks fine for now, but don't be off-put if someone corrects you; I only speak english, and I still make mistakes.

[Asta Kask]

Remember the Chuck Norris jokes? Since he came out strongly against gay marriage, a new crop of them is ripening. Here are a few of them, intended to ridicule him in what seems to be his insanity.

1. Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked gay marriage, and fell flat on his ass.
2. Chuck Norris does not sleep. He's worrying about gay marriage.
3. Chuck Norris’ tears cure gay marriage. Too bad for him he never cries.
4. There is no chin behind Chuck Norris’ beard. There is only the quivering fear of gay marriage.
5. Chuck Norris doesn’t do pushups — he might accidentally get gay-married.
6. When Chuck Norris goes to sleep every night, he would check his closet for gay marriage, if he had a closet.
7. Chuck Norris does not go opposing gay marriage, because the word “opposing” implies the possibility of failure. Chuck Norris already failed to stop gay marriage.
8. If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. Tell him how fabulous gay marriage is.
9. Chuck Norris counted to infinity. Twice. But couldn't stop thinking about gay marriage while doing so.
10. Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked Clint Eastwood in the face, because Clint Eastwood supports gay marriage.

Edit: Edited to add context.

[Reality Glitch]

How do I mark a post as spam, because Asta Kask is just trolling at this point.

[Serpentine]

You report posts by clicking on the little triangle with exclamation mark on the bottom left of it. Although I don't think it's particularly funny, though, I'm not sure how Asta's meant to be "trolling"?

[Philemonite]

How do I mark a post as spam, because Asta Kask is just trolling at this point.

Lower left corner of the post, but I don't think Asta wanted to insult anyone, it was just a joke(s).

[Asta Kask]

How do I mark a post as spam, because Asta Kask is just trolling at this point.

Right. This was meant to ridicule Chuck Norris, who is very, very much against gay marriage. Something I thought the people in this thread was for. Did I miss a memo here?

[Reality Glitch]

Sorry, I felt it a bit obtuse, so it seemed like it'd be offensive to the more sensitive in this thread.

[Mystic Muse]

I didn't know Clint Eastwood supported Gay Marriage. Sweet. :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

Sorry, I felt it a bit obtuse, so it seemed like it'd be offensive to the more sensitive in this thread.

I edited it to add more context. Were you offended?

[Comrade]

I didn't find them offensive, for my own part. A couple of them were even a bit funny, at that.