What to do with an herbalism kit?

[Magus Clash]

I know by RAW, it lets me craft antitoxins and healing potions, but that takes 10 days of work per dose, which is inconvenient for an adventurer. I'm not even talking about personal use, I'd do it to save NPCs, but the party is never in one place that long.
One thing I thought of making with herbs is an antibiotic to treat wounds that just won't heal for plot reasons, and that would take less time because it's useless in combat, but my DM has assured me that won't be necessary.
So what is it for?

[Balyano]

Brew a relaxing cup of chamomile tea or a much needed cup of coffee?

[hymer]

You should ask your DM (and not in a confrontational way). If the plot moves at such speed you can't use it for crafting, it may be that it has no uses at all. Like chain mail if there's no combat, you could use it for a door stop I suppose.

[odigity]

As far as I can tell, it's purpose is:

1) to make you appreciate your party healer
2) conversation opener on GiantITP.com

[Draken]

If you are going to be some sort of wandering healer you can always just make the things on the road and hope to have enough stock when you hit a town?

Your party better have a wagon, I guess.

[Slipperychicken]

So what is it for?


I know by RAW, it lets me craft antitoxins and healing potions,

You just answered your own question there. It lets you make potions and antitoxin for half price, which I think is worth the downtime.


I also get the feeling they'll release more items which can be crafted with an herbalism kit. That is, once they start digging into the "alchemical items".

[rlc]

Put other kinds of herbs in it.

[Spacehamster]

Really hope they make worthwhile crafting rules, really don't get half price if you craft something, should be no price, at least if you gather the ingredients. Only thing you should have to pay for is the vial and stopper unless you steal that ofc. :p I'm making an battle master/assassin that will use poison kit, herbalism kit and alcemy kit. He will pretty much be a mad brewer on the side. If rules for crafting is bad I will just make a easy to understand homebrew of my own. :)

Cause as crafting usually is in d&d it's more of an annoying skill then fun/useful/flavorful.

Will when I get time post my ideas for how gathering of herbal materials would work. :)

[Daishain]

Really hope they make worthwhile crafting rules, really don't get half price if you craft something, should be no price, at least if you gather the ingredients. Only thing you should have to pay for is the vial and stopper unless you steal that ofc. :p I'm making an battle master/assassin that will use poison kit, herbalism kit and alcemy kit. He will pretty much be a mad brewer on the side. If rules for crafting is bad I will just make a easy to understand homebrew of my own. :)

Cause as crafting usually is in d&d it's more of an annoying skill then fun/useful/flavorful.
Unfortunately, they're not off to a good start. I used to love making small things for my party. But now, even a minor project takes weeks.

[Scirocco]

It gives you something to do with your downtime days in Adventurers' League, mainly.

[CyberThread]

Puff and pass it to yOur left.

[Spacehamster]

My homebrew for making potions, poisons and such.

First off I will sort all potions and poisons by quality, mundane, average and potent.
Materials will have similar rating: common, uncommon and rare, example you could
find a rare poisonous herb bundle while out foraging on downtime or travel through areas with a rich
flora.

Not fully thought out how many bundles of herbs each kind will use but thinking something along this line.
Mundane potion/poison = 5 common bundles
Average potion/poison = 8 common and 3 uncommon bundles
Potent potion/poison = 10 common, 6 uncommon and 3 rare bundles

mundane and average potions will take 1 day to brew, potent will take 10 days.

Now you might ask "But how do we get said bundles Spacehamster?!".
But worry not I will tell you. ;) To be able to find herbal bundles you use
the proficiency in whichever type of crafting tool you have + your WIS modifier,
having survival I will have add +2 to the roll (basic knowledge of whats poisonous/has healing properties)
or double proficiency if you have nature prof(deeper knowledge of how different plants and herbs look/smell etc).
The +2 and the double prof does not stack. Then there will be 3 tables that you can roll on to see
how much herbal bundles you find, 1 for normal travel, 1 for slow travel and 1 for each month downtime.
Oh and ofc the higher the roll the more herbs you will find.

How does this sound for making herbalism and potion/poison making more involved and interesting?

[Sidmen]

Really hope they make worthwhile crafting rules, really don't get half price if you craft something, should be no price, at least if you gather the ingredients. Only thing you should have to pay for is the vial and stopper unless you steal that ofc. :p I'm making an battle master/assassin that will use poison kit, herbalism kit and alcemy kit. He will pretty much be a mad brewer on the side. If rules for crafting is bad I will just make a easy to understand homebrew of my own. :)

Cause as crafting usually is in d&d it's more of an annoying skill then fun/useful/flavorful.

Will when I get time post my ideas for how gathering of herbal materials would work. :)

If you've collected the materials, you have collected GP worth of loot from the countryside that can be put toward brewing potions.

[archaeo]

Unfortunately, they're not off to a good start. I used to love making small things for my party. But now, even a minor project takes weeks.

Expanded crafting rules seem like a reasonable thing to expect from the DMG, but the PHB makes a stab at carving out a small space for downtime activities and certainly encourages a bit of between-adventures storytelling. The crafting rules fit into this, and giving players some breather room in between chapters or arcs of the campaign lets them exercise this side of their characters.

It's not necessary, of course; you don't have to use any rules you don't like, and I bet collapsing crafting time costs will be a popular house rule, but relaxing the usual breakneck speed of a traditional D&D campaign is a nice idea. It's fun to have a big race from level 1-20 sometimes, but one of the advantages of TRPGs is the ability to have a really lengthy timeline that isn't really possible or elegant in lots of other media.

edited to add: by the way, while there isn't going to be a "magic mart" assumption, one imagines magical items will still be associated with gp prices somehow. I imagine that herbalism kit and other tools could be convincingly used to make bigger and better things, though by RAW these will probably be longterm projects!

[Spacehamster]

If you've collected the materials, you have collected GP worth of loot from the countryside that can be put toward brewing potions.

Yes I know that but it should not take coins out of your pocket which is the point I made. :)

[jkat718]

*snip* by the way, while there isn't going to be a "magic mart" assumption, one imagines magical items will still be associated with gp prices somehow. I imagine that herbalism kit and other tools could be convincingly used to make bigger and better things, though by RAW these will probably be longterm projects!

I'm just guessing, but based on what we've seen so far, alchemical materials and other created items will be fairly commonplace (ie they will have agp value), whereas "true" magic, like +X equipment and enchanted items, will continue to be "loot only". And, as always, every DM DMs differently. Levels of magic will vary by setting, campaign, and the DM's mood.




Yes I know that but it should not take coins out of your pocket which is the point I made. :)

Usually, if you have the components for crafting something, most DMs will waive some or all of the cost for you. If not, Sidman makes a good point. Just sell the materials you gathered, and you can usually finance the potion. If your DM still tries to stiff you by not paying you enough to cover the creating cost, then I'd say pull him aside and present your argument that the cost of the materials is the majority of the crafting cost, etc. etc.

[hymer]

the cost of the materials is the majority of the crafting cost, etc. etc.

Is it, though? I'm AFB, but doesn't crafting also cover a comfortable (or something) lifestyle? I'm not sure what the percentages would be at all.

[Spacehamster]

Is it, though? I'm AFB, but doesn't crafting also cover a comfortable (or something) lifestyle? I'm not sure what the percentages would be at all.

Well it has nothing to do with lifestyle costs, or do you mean that it pays for a comfortable lifestyle? Think all crafting professions covered a poor lifestyle, survival a comfortable one and perform a wealthy one.

[Logosloki]

You also get to add your proficiency bonus to identifying and applying herbs. `

The herbalism kit is a real nice item if you and the DM are working together on role play opportunities, especially for NPC-PC interactions. Making food taste better, brewing teas for people, making a poultice to mend an ailment of an NPC, identifying plants that can be used for poisons, identifying plants that can remove exhaustion by one level, drug use and abuse (If your character is a smoker that they would have tobacco or your setting equivalent in their kit, which might be handy for bribing past a guard or sharing around to get some rumors/small talk about something from an NPC).

Otherwise, it makes a mean healing potion/anti-toxin.

[Vizzerdrix]

See If your DM will let you trade it out for either candle making or baking skills and spend a single day making a wagon load of either candles (1000) or bread (500).

[Magus Clash]

You also get to add your proficiency bonus to identifying and applying herbs.
Which would be real nice if there were ONE herb in the entire game with a name and a mechanical effect. Herbs do nothing unless a spell calls for them (the party currently has no such spells) and my DM certainly isn't going to deviate from the rules as written just to make a proficiency interesting.
I already told you why I can't spend ten days crafting the two items the book says I can craft. We're always moving, and if we're ten days late for a quest there won't be a town left to save.

[Spacehamster]

What I have never got with d&d is their clunky impractical crafting systems, they feel like they are made in a way that discourages ppl from crafting even if they pick up the proficiency from some class or whatnot. Could not to be that hard to make a list of ingredients, how to get said ingredients and so on.

[Rallicus]

I'm Magus' DM. Thankfully he brought this up to me personally and we cleared this subject up (I think). I believe he was under the impression that the kit was useless given the apparent pace of the game; three sessions in and they've only had one long rest. Although in my defense, I'm not stopping them from resting! The majority just don't seem to want to.

Couple of things:


There will be downtime in my game. I hate the idea of an adventuring party going from 1-20 in one fell swoop. Some of the best character development happens behind the scenes during timeskips and downtime... Dragons of Autumn Twilight comes to mind. I'm planning on having something like that happen at some point during the campaign; Heroes of the Lance Campaign reuniting after several years of doing their own thing. But before that, yeah, plenty of downtime will happen. The group just needs to decide when to do it.


There was never any explicit implication that the village is a ticking time bomb. It was attacked by an unknown beast 6 days or so prior to the party's arrival; there's been no indication that it will happen again. (Up to the party if they want to take that risk, however).


There's plenty of creative ways to use the kit outside of potions/antidotes. Logosloki brought up some great ones.


I don't feel the herbalism kit is any less useful than the other kits, barring maybe Thieves' Tools (which are superior). I don't see why it should get special treatment.

[EvilAnagram]

Well it has nothing to do with lifestyle costs, or do you mean that it pays for a comfortable lifestyle? Think all crafting professions covered a poor lifestyle, survival a comfortable one and perform a wealthy one.

If you're making a 100% profit crafting potions at half-price and selling them at market value, you're definitely financing a comfortable lifestyle. Though the book specifies that being part of a guild of some sort will finance a comfortable lifestyle, while being a craftsman of some kind will finance a modest (not poor) lifestyle.

[odigity]

Dragons of Autumn Twilight comes to mind.

To this day, I still think of Dragonlance Chronicles as the gold standard of what you can achieve with a good enough story (DM) and characterization (players). I wish I could have been at that game, even if just to watch.

Speaking of watch, while the sessions are unnaturally paced because they're limited to two hours and have to put on a good show, I like to remember Chris Perkins' DM performances in the Acquisitions Incorporated videos when considering DM performance style. That dude knows his craft.

Speaking of craft, yeah, there seems to be almost zero mechanical benefit to nearly any toolkit besides Thieves' Tools, at least in PHB.

[hymer]

Well it has nothing to do with lifestyle costs, or do you mean that it pays for a comfortable lifestyle? Think all crafting professions covered a poor lifestyle, survival a comfortable one and perform a wealthy one.

Here's what I mean, on page 187: "While crafting, you can maintain a modest lifestyle without having to pay 1 gp per day, or a comfortable lifestyle at half the normal cost".

[Beelzebubba]

What I have never got with d&d is their clunky impractical crafting systems, they feel like they are made in a way that discourages ppl from crafting even if they pick up the proficiency from some class or whatnot. Could not to be that hard to make a list of ingredients, how to get said ingredients and so on.

I think it comes from viewing an entire adventuring career as back to back.

If you look at each foray as, oh once every 2-3 months, or a major adventure as every six months, then it makes perfect sense.

Crafting should really just be viewed as a way to get a discount on staple items once you get established.