Eldritch Disciple - Take 2

[Kesnit]

(For those who saw my Totemist thread, this is a different game.)

My party has expressed concern about not having a dedicated healer. (The guy who was playing a WIZ/CLC/True Necro changed to Warmage, so the only healing we have is a few wands the Rogue bought.) I don't want to be a dedicated healer, but decided to build a back-up character in case the party decides we need a healer. I built a CG Hellbred (Soul-Scourged) Warlock 2/Cleric 3/Eldritch Disciple 3. My focus on the Cleric side is buff/debuff/BFC. Warlock is for utility and some blasting. (Blasting is secondary to using Cleric spells. It's just there if none of my spells are appropriate, until I can get better invocations.) ECL of the party is 8.

Abilities (without gear, but after racial mods and LVL 4/8 increases)
STR 15
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 17
WIS 20
CHA 20

1) Hellbred and Warlock mean I have to be CG, and worship a good deity. Are there CG or NG deities that give domains useful for the role I want to play? I'm leaning towards Cloistered Cleric, so Knowledge Domain is automatic. (Cloistered Cleric is still up in the air, though. I'm still debating.)

2) I've read various Warlock guides, but they tend to focus on "Warlock as blaster" or "Warlock as melee." Neither is what I want to do (though I know the best invocations for what I want come later). I picked:

Baleful Utterance - I used to think this was awful until I read what all Shatter can do. Idiot that I am, I had only seen "uh, I can break boxes and chests?" (I will almost certainly take this.)
Eldritch Spear - This one is possible, but unlikely. We're in the middle of a long dungeon crawl that doesn't have a lot of open spaces. I just don't know how often the long-range will come into play.
See the Unseen - Darkvision overlaps with the Hellbred racial ability, but this gives me See Invisibility



Thoughts?

3) (This isn't a question, so much as a comment.) I do not anticipate taking Hellfire Warlock. Really, what it does is boost damage and I am trying to avoid that. One issue I'm having with the Psion is that a lot of the BFC powers also do damage. Since the only thing most of my party can do is deal damage, I feel like I'm stepping on their toes when I, say, drop a wall that blocks enemies AND does 2d6 to everything on the other side.

4) (Another comment) With respect to Cleric spells, my plan is to dive through the books and make myself a "spell book" of buff/debuff/BFC control spells. My other goal is to not include spells that do damage. Those are the ones I'll use to prepare my spells for the day. The idea is not to become a combat monster myself, but to be able to make everyone else better.

5) I debated Dragonfire Adept, but decided against it. I lose too much leaving the class after just 2 levels. Ur Priest does not work because it requires Warlock 8 to get in. (Fort +3).

6) I am stuck on feats. I have absolutely no idea what to take. I'm leaning towards metamagic (and pick up DMM), but am not sure.

[Troacctid]

I'd take Obtain Familiar at 6. As a backup healer, you should appreciate the ability to deliver touch spells. Auto-detecting creatures with a bat's blindsense or having a raven that can use wands is quite nice, and if you grab Celestial Familiar later, you can upgrade it to a Coure Eladrin (which is absolutely fantastic).

[Kesnit]

I'd take Obtain Familiar at 6. As a backup healer,

I'm actually the primary (and only) healer. But that's a good idea.

[Troacctid]

Let's see, for invocations, if you're doing a lot of dungeoncrawling, Spiderwalk could be worth taking. If you're taking Healing Blast as one of your divine gifts, Eldritch Glaive will be good once you get iteratives. Beguiling Influence could leverage your Charisma nicely. If you're rolling knowledge checks a lot in the campaign, Otherworldly Whispers is solid. I don't usually like See the Unseen because I always take a familiar when I play a Warlock, and usually it's a bat, coure, or imp/quasit; the former two have built-in countermeasures to invisibility/darkness (blindsense for the bat, at-will faerie fire and dancing lights for the coure), and the latter isn't an option for you.

[nedz]

If your focus really is Cleric, why aren't you going for: Warlock 1/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 3 ?
You lose Det Magic at will, but gain a caster level.

[Waker]

You probably should drop the second level of Warlock. Don't forget that the PrC doesn't progress the caster level for Cleric at the first level, you don't want to be too far behind.

6) I am stuck on feats. I have absolutely no idea what to take. I'm leaning towards metamagic (and pick up DMM), but am not sure.
Extra Turning wouldn't be too bad a choice, since Gift of the Divine Patron uses Turning attempts.
Extra Invocation can nab you some more options for your warlock casting.
Touch of Healing isn't amazing, but it can go a long way to conserving uses of Wands.

[Snowbluff]

As a healer, Power Attack and Eldritch Glaive are pretty good with Healing Blast.

[Kesnit]

Let's see, for invocations, if you're doing a lot of dungeoncrawling, Spiderwalk could be worth taking. If you're taking Healing Blast as one of your divine gifts, Eldritch Glaive will be good once you get iteratives.


As a healer, Power Attack and Eldritch Glaive are pretty good with Healing Blast.

I'm a little confused on how you mean this. I'm guessing go into melee and hit my allies multiple times with Healing Blast on an EG? I like the idea (and it would work), but I'm trying to avoid melee. I'd probably have to give up Cloistered Cleric and just take regular Cleric, since I'll need the AC. (Oops, I'd be in light armor anyway...)


If your focus really is Cleric, why aren't you going for: Warlock 1/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 3 ?
You lose Det Magic at will, but gain a caster level.

I have been debating going WAR 1/CLC 4. My main reason is that Least Invocations are crappy, and Lesser are better. By taking Warlock 2, I get Lessers a level sooner. (Not the best reason, I know.)


You probably should drop the second level of Warlock. Don't forget that the PrC doesn't progress the caster level for Cleric at the first level, you don't want to be too far behind.

I'm not overly concerned about losing the caster level. It does slow the progression at which I gain spells, but my group is so low-op that I'm not sure it matters. Although higher Cleric level does equal more spells, which means I have more options...


Extra Turning wouldn't be too bad a choice, since Gift of the Divine Patron uses Turning attempts.

I e-mailed my DM to see if she will allow Nightstick stacking. If she doesn't I will take Extra Turning.

[Ellowryn]

Unless the ally you are trying to hit is surrounded by enemies you wont have to get into melee to heal them. Remember the glaive has reach so you can be 10ft back from them and still swing away. At higher levels you can toss eldritch chain on your EB and hit people then, but you lose healing after the first jump.

Practiced Spellcaster could be useful for you to grab to help boost those buffs that are level dependant. DMM Persist is as broken if not more so than on a normal cleric due to EB. You could also pick up stuff like Mortalbane, Maximize Spell Like, and Quicken Spell like abilities to increase your damage output substantially several times per day.

[Kesnit]

Unless the ally you are trying to hit is surrounded by enemies you wont have to get into melee to heal them. Remember the glaive has reach so you can be 10ft back from them and still swing away.

And if they are surrounded in melee, I can always just Eldritch Blast/Healing Blast them. Won't get iteratives, but will at least hit them.

However, I won't get iteratives for 2 more levels (if I use Cloistered Cleric). The DM is leveling us slowly (though the leveling speed may pick up). It could be a really long while until Eldritch Glaive is useful to me.


At higher levels you can toss eldritch chain on your EB and hit people then, but you lose healing after the first jump.

Lose healing? Healing Blast indicates it works like an eldritch essence (in effect, is another eldritch essence known, but which requires TU to power). The description for Eldritch Chain specifically says essences added to the blast carry over to secondary targets (though at half damages, or in this case healing). Why wouldn't secondary targets get healing? Or is the half-healing what you meant by "lose healing"?


Practiced Spellcaster could be useful for you to grab to help boost those buffs that are level dependant.

Hmm... I'd considered picking it up for Warlock. Hadn't thought about it for Cleric. But that is a good idea.


DMM Persist is as broken if not more so than on a normal cleric due to EB.

What do you mean?


You could also pick up stuff like Mortalbane,

I'd have to ask my DM if she'd allow it. She banned BoVD, but that feat isn't Evil and doesn't require Evil. I can at least ask. If she says no, she says no...


Maximize Spell Like, and Quicken Spell like abilities to increase your damage output substantially several times per day.

Maximize spell-like requires CL 6th and Quicken requires 10th. Even with 2 levels of Warlock, I'm only at 5. Practiced caster could get me to 8, but not 10.

[Snowbluff]

I'm a little confused on how you mean this. I'm guessing go into melee and hit my allies multiple times with Healing Blast on an EG? I like the idea (and it would work), but I'm trying to avoid melee. I'd probably have to give up Cloistered Cleric and just take regular Cleric, since I'll need the AC.


That depends. Knowledge devotion will add to the "damage" of healing blast, and thus will give you more healing. I think if you have ranks in Knowledge Local (you should), you will have a better time with this combo.

You can't invoke in heavy armor, anyway.

[Kesnit]

I'd take Obtain Familiar at 6. As a backup healer, you should appreciate the ability to deliver touch spells. Auto-detecting creatures with a bat's blindsense or having a raven that can use wands is quite nice, and if you grab Celestial Familiar later, you can upgrade it to a Coure Eladrin (which is absolutely fantastic).

I just realized I can't take Obtain Familiar at 6. It requires CL 3 as an arcane caster. I'll only have CL 2 as a Warlock (Warlock 1, then ED 1).


That depends. Knowledge devotion will add to the "damage" of healing blast, and thus will give you more healing. I think if you have ranks in Knowledge Local (you should), you will have a better time with this combo.

Now I'm really confused. I see how Knowledge Devotion would increase my healing blast, but am not sure how Knowledge (Local) would play into it.


You can't invoke in heavy armor, anyway.

Yeah, I realized that after I posted, but didn't get back to edit my post. :smallredface:


EDIT: OK, here is an updated version of the build, including feats and equipment.


Race: Spirit-Scoured Hellbred

Abilities (without equipment, but with racial modifiers)
STR 15
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 17
WIS 20
CHA 20

Feats
(Racial) Devil's Favor
(1) Still deciding
(3) Practiced Caster (Cleric)
(6) Knowledge Devotion
I can turn undead 14/day

Equipment (the DM gave us far above WBL)
Anklet of Translocation
Belt of Endurance
Cloak of CHA +4
Gloves of DEX +3
Handy Haversack
Nightstick (only 1, until I determine if I will need more and if they stack)
Orb of Mental Renewal
Peript of WIS +4
Rod of Eldritch Power (Frightful Blast)
+1 Studded Leather Armor
Wand of Lesser Restoration
Wand of Lesser Vigor

I still have 3800 to spend.

Invocations
Baleful Utterance
Otherworldly Whispers
Spiderwalk

[Ellowryn]

You are correct with eldritch chain, i should have stated that clearer. You get full damage and therefore healing on the fist target and then all other targets get only half that.

Eldritch blast will scale far better in damage that any weapon due to the fact that you don't require a high ability score like Str to boost it. At ECL 9, which you seem to be starting at, you will be doing 3d6 damage. Assuming you take some more warlock after Eldritch Disciple and a few items you could easily get 9d6 damage before level 20 which on average is equal to swinging a greatsword with a +6 Str Modifier. Plus you hit touch AC, one of the hardest types of AC to buff so even without great to hit you will connect most of the time.

With DMM persist you can do things Persist Mass Lesser Vigor, Elation, and the big one that makes cleric/lock awesome is Divine power. Now you have full BaB to use iterative attacks with, swinging 4 times with 9d6 each against touch AC for a total of 36d6 damage (or healing if you want).

Oh, and K Local covers most normal races like elves and humans. For K devotion you have to use it for every different type of target you will be hitting. So if you need to heal the meatshield in melee more you need to succeed on a K. Local check for 'thud' the human.

[Kesnit]

Oh, and K Local covers most normal races like elves and humans. For K devotion you have to use it for every different type of target you will be hitting. So if you need to heal the meatshield in melee more you need to succeed on a K. Local check for 'thud' the human.

Gotcha. I looked at Know (Local) and completely missed "humanoid" is at the end of the list. :smallredface:

Regarding DMM, do I have to know the metamagic feat before taking DMM? I always thought so, but I just looked at DMM and it doesn't actually say. There is no pre-req to know the metamagic feat, and the write-up says "pick a metamagic feat, " not "pick a metamagic feat that you know."


Edit: Regarding deity (since I have to have one, per the DM), I am leaning towards Pelor. It has to be a NG or CG god (because of racial and class requirements), and Pelor was the best I could find in Deities and Demigods.

[Ellowryn]

Gotcha. I looked at Know (Local) and completely missed "humanoid" is at the end of the list. :smallredface:

Regarding DMM, do I have to know the metamagic feat before taking DMM? I always thought so, but I just looked at DMM and it doesn't actually say. There is no pre-req to know the metamagic feat, and the write-up says "pick a metamagic feat, " not "pick a metamagic feat that you know."

There was an errata put out that fixed that, saying that you need to have the feat to apply it. Its part of the same errata that limited it to divine spells only.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Unless you're using cloistered cleric, make sure to grab a deity with the knowledge domain. Other strong domain feats are Law (sadly, unavailable to you), Animal, and Travel. As such, get a god with one of those domains. For other domains to have as domains and not feats, Magic is always good, Travel has some nice non-cleric spells, and one of the nature-y ones can get you to be a part time druid.

That being said, with your alignment restriction in place, you may be out of luck. At least Pelor gets access to radiant servant of you wish to go that route after you finish ED.

[Kesnit]

I have found a deity - Selune, from FRCS. I chose the domains Protection and Travel. (Along with the Knowledge Domain that I get for being a Cloistered Cleric.)