Zinc Saucier XXIX: Were you going to cast that?

[dysprosium]

Welcome one and all to the twenty ninth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the twenty ninth challenge, we are taking spells that do not belong to us; from Complete Adventurer it's the Spellthief

Our challengers will have about 3 weeks to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Spellthief without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 10 November, 2014. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.

Judges will then have until Monday, 11:59pm GMT, 1 December, 2014, to post scores for all dishes.

If there is no or very limited interest expressed either in thread or PMs to the Chairman, this round will be closed early.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use Leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)
Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229736)
Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749)
Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239294)
Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243627)
Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247169)
Paladin * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252932)
Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256004)
Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259654)
Ninja * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263278)
Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265347)
True Necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276267)
Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280212)
Whisperknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285337)
Epic Infiltrator * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289233)
Master of Vipers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295287)
Ranger * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298478)
Flayerspawn Psychic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16076729#post16076729)
Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16448992#post16448992)
Walker in the Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322436)
Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16879574#post16879574)
Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333648)
Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339182)
Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346900)
Argent Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353923)
Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360816)
Artificier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365391)
Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370235)


* Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

Also it comes with double prize money. Why? Because we care!

Allez Sauciers!

[dysprosium]

A few administrative notes:

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and generic classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

Concerning Experience Requirements: Each build is allotted exactly 200,000 EXP. This is roughly 10,000 EXP more than necessary to get to 20th level. Please take note of this when planning your character for circumstances like LA Buyoff, Item Crafting, Magic Use, Multiclassing EXP Penalties, etc. Please note that this is a change from past rounds that dysprosium has been the Chairman. Let's try this out (Thank you to Kazudo, who I lifted this from :smallsmile:)

Definition of Power for scoring: Since this has been a point of contention, let me lay down this guideline. Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much for Power scoring, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Variant class features and variant character classes are espressly permitted. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

How the heck do I even do this? Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!

A thread for your amusement/edification: Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground Noob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287603)

[Sian]

Spellthief it is ... gotta unearth my thinking cap for this one

[WhamBamSam]

Yay! I'm definitely submitting to this. Just have to look over some of the secondary Spellthief features, decide which version of my idea I like best, and hammer out a few details.

[Sian]

probably going to shuffle a few things but i think i've gotten the basis down in my build idea.

[Chronos]

I'm definitely going to compete in this one... if I can figure out how. For the moment, though, I'm stumped.

[Sian]

surprisingly enough, its only [redacted] that i'm unable to find a way to emulate at all ... not the one i excepted to be hardest ... might be somewhat tricky to get everything else in line through

[dysprosium]

Bumping to check up on the Sauciers.

This past Sunday I was in the hospital suffering from an allergic reaction to something. My hands and upper lip were very swollen.

It's good to be back!

[Sian]

Trying my hardest to get my stuff to fit together properly ... feats is an issue

[WhamBamSam]

I'm torn between two different approaches to my idea and not really sure which way to go. Each one is pretty good, but has aspects I'm not thrilled with. Also why can't there be any [redacted] with [redacted] as a [redacted]?

[Sian]

I'm torn between two different approaches to my idea and not really sure which way to go. Each one is pretty good, but has aspects I'm not thrilled with. Also why can't there be any [redacted] with [redacted] as a [redacted]?

Lucky you... I have it the exact same way, except for the fact that i'm having three different approaches :smalleek:

[WhamBamSam]

Well, I know which of my two ideas I like better and I've hammered it all out so that the feats play nicely. Unfortunately, that build is sort of overkill in terms of Power and I've just realized that one of the more important feats comes from Dragon Magazine.

So it looks like I'm deferring to the idea I'm less fond of. Ah well.

[deuxhero]

I'm interested in seeing how this goes. I can't think of any methods of replicating the ability that gives the class its name. Will be interesting to see what contestants come up with

[dysprosium]

That's part of why this is an interesting ingredient. Though I hope it is not too discouraging.

[Sian]

I'll note that i HATE favored class and the issues that those brings when creating interesting characters

[deuxhero]

It can't be worse than the Dwarven Defender Iron Chef at least.

[Sian]

it's favored class for each race that i hate, not this specific SI.

In other news, had a brainwave which made my Idea work surprisingly well together with itself ... busy building the character now, beyond juggling stubs.

[TerrickTerran]

looking forward to the builds for this one. I really like this class and am curious to see how it's replicated.

[dysprosium]

Still time to get entries in for this one.

[WhamBamSam]

Still time to get entries in for this one.Mine is most of the way done. I just need to do skill points and explanations. I'll get it in well before the submission deadline.

Have you gotten any other builds yet?

[Sian]

pretty much in the same boat as Wham (if slightly behind) ... need Skills, explainations (including a few tables on abilities, which is allready all but sorted out) and fluff

[dysprosium]

Have you gotten any other builds yet?

As of this post I have not received any builds yet.

But there is still plenty of time.

[Sian]

my main issue is that i keep looping into the "there must be a more practical way to do this ... if I go do XYZ then i only need to fix This and edit that and maybe reconsider those three bits ... Might be better but certainly not practial, but then what if ......"

[Sian]

GAH!!! ... lost quite a bit of my character as my computer crashed while I was saving it, corrupting the file *whimper* ... lost my spelllist and a few other things

[dysprosium]

Computer crashes are no fun. Sorry to hear that.

[WhamBamSam]

Well, I've managed to get my build in. I hope Sian's computer crash doesn't keep him from entering and we get a few other entries. I did find a second means of emulating Steal Spell (albeit a less good one), and I'm curious if anyone used that or found a third way of going about it.

[Sian]

Oh i rebuilt the spell list and such, but i'm completely stumped on the Fluff (always the hardest part IMHO) ... and the issues (together with regular busy-ness) made it so i don't have time to build a secondary build i just got the other day which i think might even be a ever so slightly stronger contender.

But really, these long entry times leaves me procrastinating to much for my own good, which gives me to much time for intersting ideas. Ironicly enough i even think i might be able to make more entries if i only had two weeks instead of three as i much quicker would have to decide on a plan without it spreading out forcing me to be bogged down wasting time choosing between several minute differences (The build i'm entering was at some point 5(!) different (if very slightly) differnt builds, that each had merit as being ever so slightly better at something than the others would be)

[WhamBamSam]

Oh i rebuilt the spell list and such, but i'm completely stumped on the Fluff (always the hardest part IMHO) ... and the issues (together with regular busy-ness) made it so i don't have time to build a secondary build i just got the other day which i think might even be a ever so slightly stronger contender.

But really, these long entry times leaves me procrastinating to much for my own good, which gives me to much time for intersting ideas. Ironicly enough i even think i might be able to make more entries if i only had two weeks instead of three as i much quicker would have to decide on a plan without it spreading out forcing me to be bogged down wasting time choosing between several minute differences (The build i'm entering was at some point 5(!) different (if very slightly) differnt builds, that each had merit as being ever so slightly better at something than the others would be)Yeah, I'm a little lukewarm on what I wrote down for fluff myself, and I definitely procrastinated too much on this one.

[Sian]

could i by any chance get a 12hour extension? ... otherwise i might have to cut it very close

[copycatcat]

I think I'll do a first-contest judge here.
*waits 8 hours*

[dysprosium]

could i by any chance get a 12hour extension? ... otherwise i might have to cut it very close

I'll let you in on a little secret . . .

I don't think I have ever posted entries on the actual deadline. (Maybe once).

But since I only have (as of now) one entry, I can extend it.

[Sian]

I'll let you in on a little secret . . .

I don't think I have ever posted entries on the actual deadline. (Maybe once).

But since I only have (as of now) one entry, I can extend it.

Well, given that the deadline is while i'm off catching 'zzz's the difference between you posting entries just after the deadline or a few hours after it is miniscure

[Sian]

not entirely satisfied with everything on my build but that should make do. Sent, will post last-minute idea stub as soon as Dys posts the entries

[dysprosium]

OK. Two entries. Two different Spellthieves.

Two may enter. One may leave.

Please wait for the all clear.

[dysprosium]

You could lose more than a spell from this one.



Autumn Alfrake, Soul-Stealer Extraordinaire
CE Unseelie Fey Silverbrow Human Factotum 13/Soul Eater 4/Heir of Siberys 3
The GoodsEven the most vigilant can never be truly safe. The claws of Argonnessen may reach greedily across the sea at a single dragon’s whim, and the mischief of the fey can steal with the ease that autumn takes leaves from trees. Even in the midst of the defenders, even in the truest born of our house, malice can fester and evil can lurk. Beware of thieves, for some seek more than your wealth. They come for your life, your magic, your very soul.
The ThiefAbility Scores32 Point Buy: 14 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 17 Int, 8 Wis, 13 Cha
After Stat Adjustments for Unseelie Fey: 12 Str, 12 Dex, 12 Con, 17 Int, 8 Wis, 15 Cha

All stat increases from levels go to Int.
The Build


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Factotum 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Use Magic Device 4, Sleight of Hand 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 4, Concentration 4, Search 4, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 1
Shape Soulmeld (Claws of the Wyrm), Darkstalker
Inspiration, Cunning Insight, Cunning Knowledge, Trapfinding


2nd
Factotum 2
+1
+0
+3
+0
Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Use Magic Device 5, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 5, Concentration 5, Search 4, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 1, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1
-
Arcane Dilettante (1 Spell)


3rd
Factotum 3
+2
+1
+3
+1
Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Use Magic Device 6, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 6, Concentration 6, Search 5, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 2
Alertness
Brains Over Brawn, Cunning Defense


4th
Factotum 4
+3
+1
+4
+1
Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Use Magic Device 7, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 7, Concentration 7, Search 5, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 3, Balance 1
-
Arcane Dilettante (2 Spells), Cunning Strike


5th
Factotum 5
+3
+1
+4
+1
Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Use Magic Device 8, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 8, Concentration 8, Search 5, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 2
-
Opportunistic Piety


6th
Factotum 6
+4
+2
+5
+2
Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Use Magic Device 9, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 9, Concentration 9, Search 5, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 1, Sense Motive 1
Weapon Focus (Claw)
-


7th
Factotum 7
+5
+2
+5
+2
Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Use Magic Device 10, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 10, Concentration 10, Search 5, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1
-
Arcane Dilettante (3 Spells)


8th
Factotum 8
+6
+2
+6
+2
Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Use Magic Device 11, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 11, Concentration 11, Search 7, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 1, Listen 1, Disable Device 1, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1
-
Cunning Surge


9th
Soul Eater 1
+7
+4
+8
+4
Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Use Magic Device 11, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 11, Concentration 12, Search 7, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 1, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 1
Improved Energy Drain
Energy Drain


10th
Factotum 9
+7
+5
+9
+5
Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Use Magic Device 13, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 13, Concentration 13, Search 7, Open Lock 4, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 2, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 2
-
Arcane Dilettante (4 Spells)


11th
Factotum 10
+8
+5
+10
+5
Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Use Magic Device 14, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 14, Concentration 14, Search 7, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 3, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 7, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5
-
Opportunistic Piety (+1 Use)


12th
Factotum 11
+9
+5
+10
+5
Hide 15, Move Silently 15, Use Magic Device 15, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 15, Concentration 15, Search 8, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 8, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
Heroic Spirit
Cunning Breach


13th
Heir of Siberys 1
+9
+7
+12
+7
Hide 16, Move Silently 16, Use Magic Device 16, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 16, Concentration 16, Search 9, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 9, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
Spell DrainB
Additional Action Points


14th
Heir of Siberys 2
+10
+8
+13
+8
Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Use Magic Device 17, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 17, Concentration 17, Search 10, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 10, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
Dragonmark SpellturningB
Siberys Mark (Sentinel: Mind Blank)


15th
Heir of Siberys 3
+10
+8
+13
+8
Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Use Magic Device 18, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 18, Concentration 18, Search 11, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Listen 2, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
Life Drain, Font of InspirationB
Improved Siberys Mark


16th
Soul Eater 2
+11
+9
+14
+9
Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Use Magic Device 18, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 18, Concentration 19, Search 11, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5, Listen 3, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 5, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
-
Soul Strength


17th
Soul Eater 3
+12
+9
+14
+9
Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Use Magic Device 18, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 18, Concentration 20, Search 11, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5, Listen 5, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 7, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
-
Soul Blast


18th
Soul Eater 4
+13
+10
+15
+10
Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Use Magic Device 18, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 18, Concentration 21, Search 11, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5, Listen 5, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 11, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
Font of Inspiration
Soul Enhancement


19th
Factotum 12
+14
+11
+16
+11
Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Use Magic Device 22, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 22, Concentration 22, Search 11, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5, Listen 5, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 11, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
-
Arcane Dilettante (5 spells)


20th
Factotum 13
+14
+11
+16
+11
Hide 23, Move Silently 23, Use Magic Device 23, Sleight of Hand 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Swim 1, Tumble 23, Concentration 23, Search 14, Open Lock 5, Spellcraft 5, Spot 5, Listen 5, Disable Device 5, Jump 5, Balance 1, Use Rope 1, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 5, Sense Motive 1, Escape Artist 1, Disguise 1, Intimidate 11, Forgery 1, Appraise 1
-
Cunning Defense

Factotum Inspiration/Arcane Dilettante

Level
Inspiration Points
Maximum Spell Level
Number of Spells


1
2
-
-


2
3
0
1


3
3
1
1


4
3
1
2


5
4
2
2


7
4
2
3


8
5
3
3


10
5
3
4


11
5
4
4


12
6
4
4


15
7
4
4


18
9
4
4


19
12
4
5


20
9
5
5



The ConLevel 5You’re a Factotum with a couple of suboptimal feats. Still, there are worse things to be, and you’ve got Darkstalker for stealth purposes.
Level 10The somewhat meh feats are put to use, as we duck out of straight Factotum progression for a Soul Eater dip (after taking the 8th Factotum level for Cunning Surge, naturally). We’ll come back for extra helpings of soul eventually, but the first level is all we need for now.
Level 15The tricks of the build are finally up and running. Heir of Siberys helps refund some of our feat taxes, and we finally achieve the reason that Soul Eater is in this build - Spell Drain. The feat requires Energy Drain as a Supernatural Ability, though it works with other means of bestowing negative levels (like Enervation) as well. We also pick up Siberys Mark-grade Dragonmarked Spellturning, which lets Autumn reflect spells of up to 7th level back on their caster as an immediate action so long as she has action points to do so.
Level 20A bit more Soul Eater and a bit more Factotum make Autumn better at the level draining schtick already in place. There are new things here, but no real new tricks.
Adaptations and AlternativesEveryone has their own personal definition of cheese, and I dithered a fair bit on how exactly to Elegantly go about getting the particular cocktail of Dragonmarked Race+Living Non-humanoid with a natural attack to get into both Heir of Siberys and Soul Eater. I understand a distaste for Unseelie Fey, so I’ll at least offer an alternative. Also, because Soul Eater’s Energy Drain is a little ambiguous in its wording, a bit on how to manage the more conservative reading. Finally, there’s the fact that Action Points are a variant, and even in Eberron there may be some issues with Dragonmarked Spellturning, which I will also try to address.

My initial idea for the race problem was an Otherworldly Grey Elf using either Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment: Hunger Domain) or Deformity (Teeth) via dedication to an Elder Evil. The former requires bumping Weapon Focus back to 9th level, bumping Soul Eater back to somewhere between 10 and 12, and bumping back Improved Energy Drain and Spell Drain, and losing two feats (probably Life Drain and one Font).

Soul Eater is commonly interpreted as bestowing a negative level with every natural attack, but it could also be read as simply being able to make a touch attack that bestows a negative level. The latter is worse, and while the build still functions okay without actually needing the attack damage, but it still might be worth it to take a Cloistered Cleric dip in place of the 13th Factotum level for Death Devotion and a Rebuke Pool to fuel it. Soul Eater is still required to qualify for the Energy Drain feats, but they work with any means of negative level bestowing. You won’t suffer exp penalties as a human, and the exp buffer provided by the competition will eat them even if you use the Otherworldly Elf option, though losing out on Cunning Dodge and 5th level spells is a shame.

In the absence of action points for all, ask your DM if you can use the NPC numbers for Heroic Spirit (that is, the numbers for when action points are given to characters that wouldn’t ordinarily have them). You don’t get as many, but at least things still function.

While it’s of less importance than the above items, there’s an argument to be made that spell-like abilities are Arcane by default due to this line (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities) from the SRD.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.This would mean that Factotums qualify for Obtain Familiar, which is a better way of getting Alertness than just taking the feat.

Finally, something which is unambiguous RAW, but which I felt was a bit too cheesy to include. Iaijutsu Focus only requires that you attack immediately after drawing a melee weapon, not that you attack with that melee weapon. It’s rules-legal to draw a Gnomish Quickrazor as a free action, then attack with a claw and deal Iaijutsu damage. If you can get this by your DM without books flying at your head, then Autumn should probably take Iaijutsu Focus and max it, seeing as she’s made the Cha investment anyway.

The Ripoff Spellthief Features Emulated
Sneak Attack: Cunning Strike. Much like a real Spellthief, you will generally trade away sneak attack damage to do other things, but the option is there.
Steal Spell: Spell Drain. It comes a little late, but you always take the highest level spell available so long as the enemy is vulnerable to negative levels (which, really, is no worse than needing them to be vulnerable to Sneak Attack). You can even cast it in the same round thanks to Cunning Surge.
Spellgrace: Cunning Insight sort of, and Soul Enhancement. Also, apart from Will, saves are just generally better than the standard Spellthief.
Steal Spell Effect: You can dispel enemy buffs with the Unseelie Fey Autumn Touch and that should also impose a negative level thanks to Soul Eater. You then get buffed by Soul Strength, Soul Enhancement, Life Drain, and Improved Energy Drain, though something gets lost in translation and instead of whatever buffs you ripped off you get 24 hours of Bull’s Strength, and some temporary HP, save boosts, and minor attack and skill bonuses.
Steal Energy Resistance: Not really.
Spellcasting: Arcane Dilettante doesn’t get quite as many spells per day, but you get one level higher and more of the Sor/Wiz list to draw from.
Steal Spell-Like Ability: Nope.
Absorb Spell: Dragonmark Spellturning flings spells cast on you back at the enemy with slightly better action economy.
Trapfinding: Yes
Detect Magic: You can do it with Arcane Dilettante, though you’ll probably want to use your spells/day on other things after very low levels.
Arcane Sight: Again, you don’t really have anything other than just casting the spell with Arcane Dilettante, and you’re kinda short on spells/day as a Factotum.
Discover Spells: Not really, but you can bestow a lot of negative levels in a round with enough Cunning Surge hits or just firing off an Enervation. You might well take off every spell of the enemy’s highest level and so learn what they all are that way.
Steal Spell Resistance: Cunning Breach will let you ignore the SR of an enemy, which is the part you really care about.

The PlagiarismBook of Vile Darkness: Soul Eater
Dragon Compendium: Unseelie Fey
Dragon Magic: Silverbrow Human, Claws of the Wyrm
Dragonmarked: Dragonmark Spellturning
Dungeonscape: Factotum
Eberron Campaign Setting: Heroic Spirit, Heir of Siberys
Libris Mortis: Improved Energy Drain, Life Drain, Spell Drain
Magic of Incarnum: Shape Soulmeld
This (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) Web Enhancement: Font of Inspiration
Everything else should be in the SRD.

[dysprosium]

I was going to say something but I don't want to get on her bad side.



Zeirha adh Vitebid
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/2b/a7/ba/2ba7ba719c005aa596f3db4c86b73b6c.jpg



"Who is that woman sitting over at the other end of the bar?" Dyrack the Cleric asked the barkeep while nursing a mug of ale.

The barkeep barely gave a glance over there before muttering "Maybe your worst nightmare."

"Pardon?" Dyrack asked with his eyebrow half-burried in his hair.

"Zeirha adh Vitebid, while she might not appear so she's one of the most powerful persons in the city, unless you do something stupid she wouldn't be interested in you"

"How is she powerful? doesn't seem like a noblewomen to me, succesful merchant?" Dyrack questioned

"Well, calling her a merchant is probably among the least insulting things that she could be called. No she peddles with rumours and infomation." The barkeep answered while looking at the mug that he was cleaning, before deeming it clean enough before placing it with the other mugs, picking up another to start cleaning.

"Rumours and infomation about what exactly?" Dyrack asked interested.

"Everyone and everything. She got dirt on just about everyone, and uses it to get favors for keeping her knowlegde secret, or favors for spilling them in certain ears."

"And the Government just lets her?" Dyrack asked surprised, intrigue and blackmail was some of his least favorite parts of daily life in the upper echelons, and a reason why he was leery of trying to get there, being happy being among the rank and file of his chruch being unwilling to push for the high seats.

"Well, given that to the best of everyones knowledge she've never actually acted against the government as such, rather having been named as invovled in catching foreign magicians playing with things that shouldn't be known. For the most part they give her a pass, and hopes she doesn't tell on them. Like she did on the apprentice of the court wizard the other year. Appearently he had peddled with Devils" the Barkeep shugged, it was all above his head, and honetly somewhat scary, but at the same time there was a faintly humourous vibe to watch her in action, pulling down some mightier-than-thou good-for-nothing Mage, merely by catching his spell in the air throwing it back in his face.


Female CN Dark Human Rogue 3 / Incarnate 2 / Sorcerer 1 / Unseen Seer 10 / Hellbreaker 2 / Spellfire Channeler 2



Ability
Base


Strength
10


Dexterity
16


Constitution
14


Intelligence
14


Wisdom
8


Charisma
15


All Ability Scores are to be placed in Charisma





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0
Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Disguise 4, Gather Infomation 4, Hide 4, Listen 4, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Sense Motive 4, Spot 4, Use Magic Device 4
Spellfire Wielder, Combat Expertise
Sneak Attack 1d6, Trapfinding


2nd
Incarnate 1
+0
+2
+2
+2
Spellcraft 5

Aura, Detect Opposition


3rd
Rogue 2
+1
+2
+3
+2
Bluff 6, Disguise 5, Hide 6, Search 6, Spot 6, Use Magic Device 6
Improved Feint
Spell Refection ACF (LA Buyoff)


4th
Sorcerer 1
+1
+2
+3
+4
Concentration 5

Metamagic Specialist ACF


5th
Rogue 3
+2
+3
+3
+5
Bluff 8, Disguise 6, Hide 8, Search 8, Spot 8, Use Magic Device 8

Sneak Attack 2d6, Penetrating Strike


6th
Unseen Seer 1
+2
+3
+3
+7
Bluff 9, Concentration 7, Disguise 7, Sense Motive 9
Undo Resistance
Damage bonus +1d6


7th
Unseen Seer 2
+3
+3
+3
+8
Bluff 10, Concentration 10, Disguise 9, Knowledge (Planes) 2, Sense Motive 10
Silent SpellB
Advanced Learning (Arcane SightTrapsmith)


8th
Unseen Seer 3
+4
+4
+4
+8
Bluff 11, Concentration 11, Disguise 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 2, Knowledge (Planes) 4, Search 9, Sense Motive 11

Divination Spell Power +1


9th
Unseen Seer 4
+5
+4
+4
+9
Bluff 12, Concentration 12, Diplomacy 6, Disguise 11, Search 12, Sense Motive 12
Bonus Essentia
Damage bonus +2d6


10th
Unseen Seer 5
+5
+4
+4
+9
Bluff 13, Concentration 13, Diplomacy 10, Disguise 12, Search 13, Sense Motive 13

Advanced Learning (Know OpponentCleric), Guarded Mind


11th
Unseen Seer 6
+6
+5
+5
+10
Bluff 14, Concentration 14, Diplomacy 14, Disguise 13, Search 14, Sense Motive 14

Divination Power +2


12th
Unseen Seer 7
+7
+5
+5
+10
Bluff 15, Concentration 15, Diplomacy 15, Disguise 15, Search 15, Sense Motive 15, Spellcraft 7
Quick Recovery
Damage Bonus +3d6


13th
Unseen Seer 8
+8
+5
+5
+11
Bluff 16, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 16, Disguise 16, Search 16, Sense Motive 16, Spellcraft 10

Advanced Learning (DivinationCleric)


14th
Unseen Seer 9
+8
+6
+6
+11
Bluff 17, Concentration 17, Diplomacy 17, Disguise 17, Search 17 Sense Motive 17, Spellcraft 13

Divination Power +3


15th
Unseen Seer 10
+9
+6
+6
+12
Bluff 18, Concentration 18, Diplomacy 18, Disguise 18, Search 18, Sense Motive 18, Spellcraft 16
Vatic Gaze
Damage Bonus +4d6


16th
Hellbreaker 1
+9
+6
+8
+14
Bluff 19, Gather Infomation 10, Search 19, Sense Motive 19

Mantle of Darkness, Telepathic Static


17th
Hellbreaker 2
+10
+6
+9
+15
Bluff 20, Gather Infomation 16, Search 20, Sense Motive 20

Steal Spell-Like Ability


18th
Incarnate 2
+11
+7
+9
+16
Concentration 19, Spellcraft 20
Endurance
Chakra Bind (Crown)

19th
Spellfire Channeler 1
+11
+9
+9
+18
Bluff 22, Disguise 19, Sense Motive 22

Drain Charged Item, Inceased Storage 2


20th
Spellfire Channeler 2
+12
+10
+9
+19
Bluff 23, Concentration 20, Disguise 21, Sense Motive 23

Improved Healing





Spells per day / Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th


4th
5/4
3/2
-
-
-
-


6th
6/5
4/2
-
-
-
-


7th
6/5
5/3
-
-
-
-


8th
6/6
6/3
3/1
-
-
-


9th
6/6
6/4
4/2
-
-
-


10th
6/7
6/4
5/2
3/1
-
-


11th
6/7
6/5
6/3
4/2
-
-


12th
6/8
6/5
6/3
5/2
3/1
-


13th
6/8
6/5
6/4
6/3
4/2
-


14th
6/9
6/5
6/4
6/3
5/2
3/1


15th
6/9
6/5
6/5
6/4
6/3
4/2


Spells Known: (Asterisks is for spells learned via Advanced Learning)
0lvl: Electric Jolt(SpC), Caltrops(SpC), Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Launch Item(SpC), Flare, Mending, Open/Close
1st: Golem Strike(SpC), Insightful Feint(SpC), Mage Armor, Arcane Sight*, Persistant Blade(SpC), Grease,
2nd: Detect Thoughts, Flame Dagger(SpC), Cloud of Knifes(PHB2), See Invisibility, Bladeweave(SpC);
3rd: Energy Vulnerability(PHB2), Know Opponent(SpC)*, Evard's Menacing Tentacles(PHB2), Fly, Clairaudience/clairvoyance,
4th: Celerity(PHB2), Greater Invisibility, Divination* Evard's Black Tentacles, Lower Spell Resistance(Dra),
5th: Spell Theft(SpC), Contigent Energy Resistance (Dra),



Level
Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra


2nd
2
1
0


18th
3
2
1


Default meldshapes:
Spellward Shirt (max Essentia), Mage's Spectables, Planar Ward




HD 20d6: 13d4+7d6
BAB 15: 12
Fort 6: 10
Reflex 6: 9
Will 12: 19

Skill points 23*(6+int) 138+ skillpoints: 6*(2+int)+12*(6+int)+5*(8+int) 124+ skillpoints

Sneak Attack 5d6: Sneak Attack 6d6

Steal Spell & Absorb Spell Spellfire Wielder absorbs and steals the magical energy people throw at me, and lets me channel it back at them as either damage or using it to heal myself, Celerity makes me do it 'for free' with an will save against DC 10 + Celeity ½CL (4), + my Cha modifier due to Quick Recovery. Furthermore Spell reflection helps me as well with knocking spell back in the head of my opponents.

Trapfinding: Rogue 1

Detect Magic: Vatic Gaze, superior as its at Will

Spellgrace +3: My saves are that much stronger than a level 20 Spellthief that i'm just as good or better against spells as they would be.

Steal Spell Effect: The 5th level spell Spell Theft does this

Steal Energy Resistance: Energy Vulnerability is able to indirectly lower opponent resistance, while Contigent Energy Resistance triggers Energy resistance of the first kind i'm up against each day.

Steal Spell-Like: Hellbreaker 2

Spells: Casts as a Sorcerer at level 11th, just slightly above what Spellthief does, and are focusing on much of the same spells as a Spellthief can take

Arcane Sight: Has it as a first level spell

Discover Spells: Between Vatic Gaze and assorted Divination (Know Opponent, Detect Thoughts and Divination) spells i should be able to emulate this

Steal Spell resistance: Not directly emulated but between Undo Resistance (which drains opponents SR when attacking with Cold Iron Weapons), Lower Spell Resistance (Lowers opponent spell resistance by CL, which would be 8), and having shaped Spellward Shirt (gives me SR) it should be fairly similar, my max SR (21, with 4 Essentia) is slightly lower than what Spellthief can get to (SR25) but its permanent



Complete Mage - Spell Refection ACF, Unseen Seer
Draconomicon - Spells
Dungeonscape - Penetrating Strike
Fiendish Codex II - Hellbreaker, Undo Resistance
Magic of Faerun - Spellfire Channeler, Spellfire Wielder
Magic of Incarnum - Azurin, Bonus Essentia, Incarnate
Players Handbook II - Metamagic Specialist ACF, Vatic Gaze, Spells
Spell Compendium - Spells
Tome of Magic - Dark Template
Unearthed Arcana - LA Buyoff

[dysprosium]

And there you have it!

Did we have a judge volunteer? Please forgive me if I missed it.

[Sian]

The last-minute idea i had which i didn't have time to build was some variant of

Rogue 4 / Telepath 1 / Ebon Saint 4 / Shadowmind 10 / something 1

Emulating the sidebar suggesting Psitheives

[WhamBamSam]

We got a judging offer from copycatcat just before the reveal.

Since it seems we did use different means of steal spell emulation after all, I'll hold off on posting the main alternate idea I had. I did have a last minute idea for spell stealing as well, specifically using Dragon Prophet's Tiamat constellation power. Didn't really come up with a full build though.

[Sian]

yesterdays xkcd explains surprisingly well why i have problems

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/efficiency.png (http://xkcd.com/1445)

[copycatcat]

Alright, I'm going off base 5, with deductions for lots of things. Also only using quarter points.

[deuxhero]

I'd have to actually look up the components of these, but from the looks of it, it's still better than the Dwarven Defender iron chef.

[dysprosium]

Peeks in head to see how judging is going . . .

[Chronos]

Psst, copycatcat, your post is empty.

[dysprosium]

Psst, copycatcat, your post is empty.

Indeed.

Let us know when it becomes less empty. I'm not sure if an edited post will ding on my subscription list.

[Sian]

I'm not sure if an edited post will ding on my subscription list.

It won't so .....

[dysprosium]

While we wait for our judging(s) what ingredients would you like to see?

[Sian]

Dragonfire Adept
Swashbuckler
Sohei (OA)

all of those could be rather interesting

[WhamBamSam]

I was sorta thinking that Wilder might be fun, but there's sorta exactly one means of emulating it, or at least one a singular obvious one. Maybe Psychic Warrior for a psionic ingredient.

[Sian]

any judging?

[dysprosium]

How goes our judges?

I saw the plea in the Iron Chef thread.

[ZamielVanWeber]

As a lurker and a one-time judge (because that matters AT ALL) I totally vote on Sohei.

[dysprosium]

As a lurker and a one-time judge (because that matters AT ALL) I totally vote on Sohei.

You are more than welcome to become a two-time judge . . .

Sohei is on my short list.

[WhamBamSam]

I know we've been gravitating toward base classes, but I think Bloodhound might be a cool SI.

[ZamielVanWeber]

You are more than welcome to become a two-time judge . . .

Sohei is on my short list.

I can certainly do that. Did you mean this one, because I can certainly do the next.

[WhamBamSam]

I can certainly do that. Did you mean this one, because I can certainly do the next.He meant this one. It seems that copycatcat won't be judging afterall, so we need someone to evaluate our two entries so that the honorable chairman doesn't have to do it himself.

[ZamielVanWeber]

They will be up tomorrow! These builds are fun.

[WhamBamSam]

They will be up tomorrow! These builds are fun.Thanks a ton. I'm rather proud of my entry and was quite impressed with Sian's as well. I'll be really glad to see judgings for them.

[ZamielVanWeber]

So, if I had not seen these done I would not believe them to be doable. Radically different approaches though, so I am glad to see the ol' creative juices are still at work.
Innovation: Rarity is king here. If I don't see it recommended often points will be had. Cool dips/tricks will nab you points as well.
Elegance: Dips bad, taking solid levels of classes and finishing prestige classes good.
Power: How close are you to the original class and how far have you gone past it (I am assuming, in most cases, that you will go past it)?
Emulation: How close are you to the original build, mechanically and, to a bit, flavor wise.


4.5 I love the use of Soul Eater and Heir of Syberis here. Heir doesn't really seem to get a lot of love on Giantitp (probably due to the action point interaction) so it is nice to see it.


4 This looks fun, but is a bit clunky. You have Factotum spread out and end up needing to take a level of Soul Eater near randomly (well, you needed to take it because it coincided with a feat slot, but its placement still boggles the eye a little). You did manage to finish a prestige class and show some love to your main class, so you'll keep points for that.


4.5 It is so hard to judge the power of Soul Eater. It is useless versus some entire monster types and spamming negative levels is much deadlier to a player than for a player. I would be more worried about being on the business end of this lady, with her Factotum given ability to nova encounters, spamming negative levels in melee, and natural magical defenses than I would about having a player use her. So I gave the score as sort of an amalgam of the fact she is player wise somewhat underwhelming but an excellent BBEG. Regardless, this seems much stronger than the real spell thief.


3.5 The big one, emulation. The real loser here is the lack of spells. You literally thief spells via negative levels, which is pretty awesome, but again lose out thanks to inconsistent access to sneak attacks. Font of Inspiration helps, but it still kinda misses the point.


16.5




4 You relied on a fairly strong, intrinsically, prestige class that also decently emulates the sneak attack and spell casting of Spell Thief. The dips for Spellfire Channeler and Hellbreaker were inspired.


4 You finished Unseen Seer, which is cool, but would actually have multiclassing penalties if you weren't a human, which is less cool.


4.5 The 5th level spells are nice and a number of your abilities are stronger indeed, and that help push your score up quite a ways.


4.5 The real key here were the actual spells, something spell thieves will rely on time to time when they are not able to steal stuff.

17



'Twas a close contest indeed and partly why I hate being the only judge, since everything comes down to my opinion. You guys look like you really had some fun with these builds; keep up the good work!

[Sian]

you've mixed up the names, looking at what you've said in the respective innovation

[ZamielVanWeber]

What I get for looking at it upside down. Lemme fix that.

[dysprosium]

Thanks for judging ZamielVanWeber! You are now an official two timing judge!

Just one small question for you:


correct me if i'm wrong, but i appear a penalty in Elegance because i selected Human as it have 'any' as favored class, hence dodges multiclassing? mind boggles

Would it have been better if i selected a race that had Rogue as a favored class (say... Strongheart halfling, so i didn't lose any feats, which was my primary alternate race)? wouldn't make sense if it did but your statement suggests so.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The elegance loss was for triple classing. If you had ACTUALLY incurred multiclassing penalties they would have been further loss, but as it is you were only dinged for the triple class. Sorry for not being clearer about that.

[dysprosium]

Where there was once one,
Now there are two!


Thanks for judging ZamielVanWeber! I hate to do this, but as there was a dispute from the distinguished competition, I'd like to air a few concerns as well.



This looks fun, but is a bit clunky. You have Factotum spread out and end up needing to take a level of Soul Eater near randomly (well, you needed to take it because it coincided with a feat slot, but its placement still boggles the eye a little). You did manage to finish a prestige class and show some love to your main class, so you'll keep points for that.The Soul Eater dip also coincides with the traditional Factotum 8 breakpoint. I did consider taking my remaining 3 Soul Eater levels there as well, I suppose, but decided that I wanted to get to Factotum 11 (another traditional breakpoint) instead en route to Heir of Siberys. I understand if it still looks clunky, but I just wanted to provide the full reasoning behind my decision (though yes, the feat slot was also important).


It is so hard to judge the power of Soul Eater. It is useless versus some entire monster types and spamming negative levels is much deadlier to a player than for a player. I would be more worried about being on the business end of this lady, with her Factotum given ability to nova encounters, spamming negative levels in melee, and natural magical defenses than I would about having a player use her. So I gave the score as sort of an amalgam of the fact she is player wise somewhat underwhelming but an excellent BBEG. Regardless, this seems much stronger than the real spell thief.Inspiration Points refresh with each encounter, so there's no burnout/nova in that regard. Were you referring to the limit on spells per day through Arcane Dilettante?


3.5 The big one, emulation. The real loser here is the lack of spells. You literally thief spells via negative levels, which is pretty awesome, but again lose out thanks to inconsistent access to sneak attacks. Font of Inspiration helps, but it still kinda misses the point.Arcane Dilettante is somewhat limited in the number of spells I get per day, but I should actually end up with a comparable number of high level spells to a Spellthief 20 (at the expense of having lower level ones), reach 5th level spells, and have a bigger chunk of the Wizard spell list. On an average adventuring day, I'd say that I at least come close to breaking even, and can probably do a lot more in downtime situations.

[ZamielVanWeber]

1) Fair enough. I still stand by my decision in this case. You got credit for putting in a serious effort and finishing Heir of Siberyis. (I admit I forgot about 8 and 11 being natural breaking points. Judging is a bit trickier without DnDtools, since I have to balance book and internet).

2) Neither. As a BBEG I would rate her a 5. Easy to play, with enough complexity to demand players plan ahead and dangerous to ignore to engage directly. I meant nova as in she could safely burn through her inspiration points in a combat and have them for the next. As a DM having a justification to nova an encounter without being unfair to a player if why I like factotum so much as a villain. The things is, as I was looking at her, I kept getting the distinct sense she would be better as a BBEG; Soul Eater is more dangerous on villains over PCs and a lot of the countering methods are more reliable against PCs (since they often use spells) than as a PC. I didn't want to punish the variable power, so I just avaeraged the scores and gave you the 4.5

3) When a Spellthief runs into encounters without spells or other goodies to thief (rarer at higher levels, but it happens) they rely on their spells and sneak attacks to keep them relevant. You have far fewer spells over; you do have plenty more good options to keep you busy, but they are not spells like a Spellthief has,

[Sian]

looking forward to Zinc XXX :smallbiggrin:

[SamsDisciple]

Zinc XXX? I hope it is something along the theme of the drunken master or some such :smallcool:

[WhamBamSam]

Zinc XXX? I hope it is something along the theme of the drunken master or some such :smallcool:Drunken Master was ZS XXI. So we've already sort of done that joke.

[Sian]

and the conclusion after the couple of Zinc's following Drunken Master (up to XXV iirc) came to the conclusion that the joke didn't pay out in terms of more cooks, but probably the opposite via trying to keep it going with too Obsurce And/or Difficult classes to keep the interest

[ZamielVanWeber]

Hopefully we can snag at least one more judge too. I hate being the only judge.

[WhamBamSam]

and the conclusion after the couple of Zinc's following Drunken Master (up to XXV iirc) came to the conclusion that the joke didn't pay out in terms of more cooks, but probably the opposite via trying to keep it going with too Obsurce And/or Difficult classes to keep the interestI actually really liked Drunken Master as an ingredient, and as I recall there were other people who had decent ideas but didn't find time to submit and there had been a lot of clamoring for Drunken Master in the rounds leading up to it. Psibond Agent and Argent Fist might've been a little too out there, and Artificer was hard and lost a few potential entrants to the Vizzini effect, but I don't think there was anything wrong with Drunken Master as an ingredient.

[Sian]

[...] but I don't think there was anything wrong with Drunken Master as an ingredient.

And there weren't. What I'm trying to say is that 'linking' the class together with the ZS 'edition' and pick that way is a cheap joke that doesn't help gaining more cooks, only succeding in making people groan. If anything then going this route would lead to fewer cooks due to it likely leading to too obscure or difficult classes

[dysprosium]

So I'm late for the Saucier reveal (again . . . :smalleek:)

Thanks to ZamielVanWeber for judging!

Frist Place: Sian with Zeirha adh Vitebid
Second Place: WhamBamSam with Autumn Alfrake

Thanks to both of you for participating. I've always said that these contests only survive because of the participants.


And regarding the taglines/ingredients matching. I've learned my lesson. The ingredients have been better lately and even though they have not given us many more new Sauciers, they have generated attention and ideas. The longer deadlines have been somewhat profitable too--we actually got a judge for this round because of it.

I realize that time is always a factor for participation in these things.

The new round (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386586-Zinc-Saucier-XXX-Factotum!) is up now!

I have to admit though since it is XXX, I thought about having a class from the BoEF . . .