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View Full Version : Player Help Playing a Dragon Shaman as the only healer, melee, and tank



MagmaFyre
2014-10-17, 03:49 PM
We're just about to start a new campaign, having mostly done character creation last week. Our party is a bit strange consisting of:
Skill Monkey Rogue (Experienced Player)
Ranged Dex Fighter (First Time)
Distance Laser Warlock (Relatively New)
Bronze Dragon Shaman (Me, I've played only a couple of sessions but pick things up quickly)
Probably a Wizard (Experienced Player)

Everyone is ranged, has no strength, and is squishy except for me. We're all at level 3. I picked a morningstar and shield set up with breastplate. My stats with a 35 point buy:
Str 15
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 9
Cha 17
Feats: Endurance, Diehard, Steadfast Determination (and Skill Focus: Swim)
With these, I'll be able to stay conscious at negative hitpoints allowing my auras to stay active as well as having a good will save based off Con.

The question is: How can I keep the party alive as the only healer and keep enemies at bay as the only tank? Essentially, how screwed are we?

ComaVision
2014-10-17, 04:14 PM
Drop some Cha and pick up more Dex. You don't want a penalty there and get very little from Cha. With 35 PB (assuming human) I'd probably do the below in your situation:
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 18
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 12

Switch Endurance for Entangling Exhalation, it's a guaranteed debuff and does some ok damage for your low level. You need the Dragonblood subtype for this. You can get it by 1) switch your race to Silverbrow Human 2) take the Dragontouched feat or 3) apply the Dragonborn template.

Your other feat choices are weak, the class has strong will saves and Diehard is a good way to keep getting hit when you're already in the negatives.

Get the Vigor aura for your main out-of-combat healing.

Get the casters to buff you.

The warlock can easily make the 20 DC UMD checks to use any wand. Get him to pick up some wands of Lesser Vigor and he'll take care of the healing past what your aura does.

Good luck!

Troacctid
2014-10-17, 07:15 PM
Shape Soulmeld (Bloodtalons) is better than Diehard, as it does the same thing, but without the garbage Endurance feat as a prerequisite. The only downside is it can be dispelled and doesn't work in an anti-magic field, but by the time you're facing enemies of a high enough CR for that to come up, an extra 9 HP isn't likely to matter one way or the other.

MagmaFyre
2014-10-17, 07:31 PM
I suppose I should have mentioned that the dm ruled out on dragon magic by merit of not having the book. So no meta breath feats nor dragonblood. If those were available i would have gone with that to start with seeing as thats the recommendation everyone gives dragon shamans ever.
The will and fort saves on ds are the same anyway so steadfast determination has no negative effect other than burning two feats. If i keep my current build i can use the cha bonus to bluff as unconscious when down as long as i dont do anything until i have enough health again.

What book is that in? I may be able to get the dm to let me switch feats before we actually start playing.

ComaVision
2014-10-17, 08:02 PM
I suppose I should have mentioned that the dm ruled out on dragon magic by merit of not having the book. So no meta breath feats nor dragonblood. If those were available i would have gone with that to start with seeing as thats the recommendation everyone gives dragon shamans ever.
The will and fort saves on ds are the same anyway so steadfast determination has no negative effect other than burning two feats. If i keep my current build i can use the cha bonus to bluff as unconscious when down as long as i dont do anything until i have enough health again.

What book is that in? I may be able to get the dm to let me switch feats before we actually start playing.

Fear not! The Entangling Exhalation feat AND the Dragonborn template are from Races of the Dragon!

Feats shouldn't have no negative effect, they should have a positive effect.

Quick numerical comparison: Your stat array gives a +3 to bluff, -1 to ac, and +9 hp (at level 3). The stat array I suggested gives +1 to bluff, +1 to ac, and +12 hp. I think the latter is more likely to help your survival.

The feat that Troacctid recommended is in the Magic of Incarnum book.

MagmaFyre
2014-10-17, 09:36 PM
Fear not! The Entangling Exhalation feat AND the Dragonborn template are from Races of the Dragon!

Feats shouldn't have no negative effect, they should have a positive effect.

Quick numerical comparison: Your stat array gives a +3 to bluff, -1 to ac, and +9 hp (at level 3). The stat array I suggested gives +1 to bluff, +1 to ac, and +12 hp. I think the latter is more likely to help your survival.

The feat that Troacctid recommended is in the Magic of Incarnum book.

If it wasn't obvious from my inability to know what came from which book, we have access to none of the dragon books. I don't think magic of incarnum is available either.... :/

At this point the best I can do is change my weapon if necessary, and know what feats to get next. Get some more items because I have a decent amount of gold left. What I need is some strategy, or a feat list that will help me keep the enemies off the defensively weaker party members.

ComaVision
2014-10-17, 10:11 PM
If it wasn't obvious from my inability to know what came from which book, we have access to none of the dragon books. I don't think magic of incarnum is available either.... :/

At this point the best I can do is change my weapon if necessary, and know what feats to get next. Get some more items because I have a decent amount of gold left. What I need is some strategy, or a feat list that will help me keep the enemies off the defensively weaker party members.

It would be useful to know what sources you do have access to.

There's the Goad Feat from the Miniatures Handbook that uses your Cha bonus and causes intelligent enemies to attack you.

Honestly, everyone in the party could have higher AC than you at this level, including the wizard. You might want to cross-class to a Cha synergistic melee class with heavy armour proficiency if you're intent on tanking for this party. Crusader (ToB) and Knight (PHII) fit the bill and they both have some tanking abilities.

+1 armour is only 1000 gold but you didn't say how much you have to spend so it's pretty hard to help you there too.

Troacctid
2014-10-17, 10:31 PM
I suppose you don't have access to Tome of Battle? A level in Crusader would do wonders.

Tanking is difficult in D&D because it is so easy for your enemies to ignore you and walk right over to the squishies. You need some way of restricting their movement. Crusader is great for that. If it's not allowed, you could try taking a level of Cleric (preferably of the Cloistered (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) variety) to grab Earth Devotion (from Complete Champion) in place of a domain, which would let you create difficult terrain as an immediate action to slow enemies down and prevent charges.

One thing that would definitely help strategy-wise would be if your Warlock took Darkness as one of their least invocations. They could have it on all the time and keep the entire back line concealed in the shadows while you stand in the front. Then your enemies will probably attack the one guy that they can, y'know, see. If you took Blind-Fight, you could even have the whole party fight in the dark.

MagmaFyre
2014-10-18, 10:27 AM
I think we actually do have Miniatures so I'll look into that and cross-classing into Knight for a level. I also have 2100 gold because our skill monkey bought literally every useful item ever for the party leaving the rest of us to just cover our own essentials. Really, I'm not so much intent on tanking, as I'm the only who can with our current party make up. DM said he would try to convince the wizard to play something different to give me some back up, so maybe it won't be as crucial, but he wasn't very optimistic about it.

I like the darkness idea, I'll have to talk to our warlock about that. We don't have ToB and a Cloistered Cleric would make not a lot of sense for this character (tbh I'm not sure Knight would either). She was shipwrecked as a very very small child and was then rescued and raised by a bronze dragon. As such, she worships Bahumut.

MagmaFyre
2014-11-02, 05:04 PM
Update now that we have gotten started:
The guy who was going to be a wizard is now a barbarian with a DM-custom race that essentially gives him monkey grip for free and has tusks as a natural weapon. He has 20 strength. We've had two sessions now and he is killing everything with his large-sized greatsword.
I swapped diehard for heavy armor proficiency and have yet to take a single point of damage while wearing my masterwork fullplate.
With the barbarian around, I can focus on being the designated healer and breathing lightning at things next level instead of desperately keeping the rest of the party out of melee.

gorfnab
2014-11-02, 08:35 PM
Dragon Shaman Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?214007-3-5-Dragon-Shaman-Handbook)

Any chance of fitting in the feat Imperious Command and the skill trick Never Outnumbered? Power Attack, Leap Attack, Improved Bullrush, and Shock Trooper are some decent options for Dragon Shamans as well.