How do you deal with Obscuring Snow?

[KillianHawkeye]

So I have a player in my game who decided to use the spell Obscuring Snow from Frostburn. However, I noticed a few problems with it....

If you don't know, Obscuring Snow is kinda like a better version of Obscuring Mist. It conceals an area 30 feet high within a 30-foot radius and moves with the caster. It has the same concealing properties as the various fog spells. Fire and strong winds can remove all or parts of the snow, et cetera.

The big problem that I'm seeing is that it lasts a whole hour per level and it's not dismissible. In other words, IT CANNOT BE TURNED OFF for several hours without wasting a dispel. This seems ridiculous to me. Any person who casts this spell cannot return to a civilized area without causing utter havoc and disruption.


So anyways, what are your thoughts about this? I didn't find any errata for this. Should I houserule that the spell is dismissible?

Also, what are some good strategies for challenging a PC who uses this spell? In a dungeon-like environment, strong winds aren't really available, and not too many monsters in the CR 4-8 range have access to fire. NOTE: I am not trying to nerf the PC, I just want to make sure I can still put up a challenge when he has such a good spell in his arsenal.

Many thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[Titan]

So looking at the spell and thinking of a way to challenge the caster. It offers no save nor resistance, so it just affects anyone in it. It also follows the caster around centered on them.

Here are a few ways that enemies can handle that player and a few ways that the use of that spell is a terrible idea for everyone else.

For the enemies, if they are in a dungeon/keep/lair any place that has a door really, then have them aim at the door and wait for it to open because that would mean someone is opening it, so they could target the square and then hit with a 50% miss chance since they know where to shoot, and blindfighting should help if they choose to get into melee. You mentioned they are about the 4-8 range for difficulty so giving them a feat to have a fighting chance isn't terrible.

Now your other players, probably shouldn't let the caster use this spell, basically ever, since getting snow sight is something basically no-one ever has ready, so they also are subject to the spells affects like the enemies, so they too have diminished combat. Even the caster has to suffer the penalties. So the spell isn't use for fighting it's more used for running away.

Though looking at the other cloud type spells, Obsc. Mist, Fog Cloud, etc. the highest is 10min/lvl since this is a home game, a better course of action would be reduce it to either 10min or 1min per level just so it isn't on half a day.

[Blackhawk748]

Personally i would actually love it if you reduced the time, seriously an hour per level is freakin nuts. Also if the party knows that the mage has this they would probably invest in Snow Sight, i know i would.

Also, fireball. CR 4-8 you can totally chuck a fireball or two at the party without them throwing a fit.

[KillianHawkeye]

Right, I forgot to mention, the PC in question IS using the spell in conjunction with Snowsight, but none of the others have access to it. His strategy involves using the snow as cover and charging the enemy for big damage. He's no uber-charger quite yet and is unlikely to ever get Pounce, but he still managed almost 50 damage and took down a vampire spawn in a single attack.


For the enemies, if they are in a dungeon/keep/lair any place that has a door really, then have them aim at the door and wait for it to open because that would mean someone is opening it, so they could target the square and then hit with a 50% miss chance since they know where to shoot, and blindfighting should help if they choose to get into melee. You mentioned they are about the 4-8 range for difficulty so giving them a feat to have a fighting chance isn't terrible.

While this is good advice, it supposes that the enemies are prepared and know what they're dealing with. This is now true in the current adventure I'm running because the PCs were forced to retreat, but looking to the future it's a situation that I've rarely found myself in since I don't metagame the monsters unless they're hyper-intelligent.

The Blind-Fight suggestion is good, but I wish there were an easy way to get blindsense or even blindsight instead.


Now your other players, probably shouldn't let the caster use this spell, basically ever, since getting snow sight is something basically no-one ever has ready, so they also are subject to the spells affects like the enemies, so they too have diminished combat. Even the caster has to suffer the penalties. So the spell isn't use for fighting it's more used for running away.

Yeah, the other PCs were as hampered by the snow as the enemies. This could work both ways in the future under the right circumstances, but as it happened the cramped layout of the dungeon didn't allow the enemies to make good use of it this time.


Though looking at the other cloud type spells, Obsc. Mist, Fog Cloud, etc. the highest is 10min/lvl since this is a home game, a better course of action would be reduce it to either 10min or 1min per level just so it isn't on half a day.


Personally i would actually love it if you reduced the time, seriously an hour per level is freakin nuts. Also if the party knows that the mage has this they would probably invest in Snow Sight, i know i would.

Also, fireball. CR 4-8 you can totally chuck a fireball or two at the party without them throwing a fit.

Yeah, reducing the duration to 10 minutes per level might be the right way to handle it. That will still allow the spell to be used for the purpose it's being used for, but it won't be anything like an all-day buff (the MOST ANNOYING all-day buff ever) nor will it cause as much disruption to the party's non-adventuring activities.

Unfortunately, I don't have any primary spellcasters at my disposal for this adventure since the plot is vampiric ogres and their minions. Fireballs will definitely be a possibility in the future, though. :smallamused:

[Hamste]

The snowsight spell is a touch range spell, at a low level using all your first level slots on your allies to allow them to see hurts but then you are granting them a nice 50% miss chance and you said they are mainly melee anyways. As for dismissing it, Alchemist fire is a nice way to dismiss and so is building a big fire and then shaving it off.

[ZamielVanWeber]

If you want enemies to cut through it scent lets you pinpoint enemies within five feet. If someone can tell the scenter (or if they take a move action to find out) what square he is in they can rush him. There are a few templates, reptilian is one I believe, that give it (and a lot of animals have it too).

[Lightlawbliss]

I think they gave it that long duration as a disadvantage rather then an advantage, making the duration shorter would actually make it better.

[Darrin]

If you want enemies to cut through it scent lets you pinpoint enemies within five feet.

Scent doesn't really help here. If the target is 5' away, then you can see which square the target is in, but it has 20% concealment. Beyond 5', you can still pinpoint with Listen checks, tremorsense, blindsense, etc., but the target gets 50% miss chance.

OP: A Wind Fan (5500 GP, DMG) will disperse the snow in 1 round, but presumably it just starts up again as soon as the wind is gone. If the caster doesn't want to waste a 3rd level spell slot on dispel magic, try dispelling touch (PHBII, Sor/Wiz 2). I thought dispel fog (Shining South) might work, but it says something about not working on precipitation, and snow probably counts as precipitation. I looked at maybe dispel ward (SC) if you cast obscuring snow through a glyph of warding, but I think that only works before the glyph is triggered.

How about: "This spell does not function underwater." So the caster just dunks himself in a body of water whenever he wants to end the spell. However, it's not clear if "does not function" means the spell ends, or if it's just supressed while the caster is submerged.

Oh, duh: Iron Heart Surge = poof.