Skeletal Champion and Create Undead

[Zanos]

A Skeletal Champion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeletal-champion-CR-1) can be created with Create Undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead) if the spellcaster also casts enervation or energy drain of CL 11th or higher, as long as your CL is higher than the HD of the result.

The Skeletal Champion does not drop HD or abilities from class levels as far as I can tell, gets some nice defenses and stat bumps, and for some reason has a CR based on the skeleton template + 1.

Did I miss something that stops me from adding a bunch of stuff I fight with class levels to my personal army?

[Coidzor]

A Skeletal Champion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/skeletal-champion-CR-1) can be created with Create Undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead) if the spellcaster also casts enervation or energy drain of CL 11th or higher, as long as your CL is higher than the HD of the result.

The Skeletal Champion does not drop HD or abilities from class levels as far as I can tell, gets some nice defenses and stat bumps, and for some reason has a CR based on the skeleton template + 1.

Did I miss something that stops me from adding a bunch of stuff I fight with class levels to my personal army?

Hm? How are you getting around not being able to control undead you make using Create Undead and its Greater version? :smallconfused:

IIRC, it's balanced around the idea that it's difficult/impossible to diplomance the kinds of personalities these undead have without being a BBEG or the cost of filling up Rebuking HD to Command them using that mechanic.

[meschlum]

There is a very simple reason for which Skeletal Champions are not used (which you can observe in more detail here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?352704-Templates-and-you): the Juju Zombie (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/zombie-juju-cr-1).

The CR calculations are indeed very odd, and hopefully wrong. Otherwise, your GM will toss around CR 9 Cleric 18 Skeletal Champions (20 Hit Dice, so Skeleton CR is 8, +1 from Champion) and essentially destroy the game setting. Especially since by the rules it's possible to play monsters as if they had your CR as a level...

A more reasonable reading would be that the template adds the CR from the extra skeleton hit dice to the base CR of the creature. In this case, you're paying at least 2 CR for two skeleton racial hit dice, and the Juju Zombie is much preferable (you have better uses for two hit dice than Undead dice, and better bonuses overall). As a +2 or more CR template (more when applid to bigger creatures), the Skeletal Champion is not that useful. The real issue is that the Skeleton template assigns a CR based on hit dice independently of the underlying creature, which is open to lots of abuse - Skeletons have fewer hit points and worse AC, but higher initiative and a CR that is 2-3 lower means they can pull off a massive alpha strike.

[Aldrakan]

The Skeletal Champion does not drop HD or abilities from class levels as far as I can tell, gets some nice defenses and stat bumps, and for some reason has a CR based on the skeleton template + 1.

Did I miss something that stops me from adding a bunch of stuff I fight with class levels to my personal army?

I'm dealing with a similar question in my game atm. I don't see how the CR is important you're speaking as a PC (and any sensible interpretation would include the class levels), but I believe the answer is no, you didn't.

As was said, the Juju zombie is just better. It doesn't add two racial hd like skeletal champion does, so you can use it on people a mere one level lower than you, while the skeletal champion requires you to be three levels higher. Personally I actually intend to use the champion anyway, at least to start, partially because I think the chance of my GM house-ruling this as illegal is lower that way. I don't know the situation or GM so I don't know if that's a concern for you.

The main issue is how you maintain control of multiple sentient powerful undead with class levels. I'm playing a white necromancer, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/white-necromancer, which means that I don't need direct control over undead I create, they start as friendly towards me, share my alignment, and I can make diplomacy checks to get them to help me (and even if they refuse are unlikely to try to kill me).
Command Undead is of course awesome (the identically named but differently functioning feat and the spell both), but depending on how many of them you're creating you might need to spend an awful lot of spell slots or spend a ton of money on scrolls, especially if they've got class levels of something with a good will save. I've seen a claim that you can order an already commanded undead to fail its will save deliberately when you need to recast the spell, but you'd need a permissive DM to allow that.
Still, having just a couple would still be very good.