Help with a "Gish" Please!!!!

[TheWong]

Hello everyone,

I need to make a character for our adventuring party. I play pathfinder rpg. In our party (everyone is 9th level) we have a bloodrager, a mystic theruge, and a warpriest. I used to be a Stygian slayer but I'm getting bored of it.... I've decided that because of my love of using the Slayer's spells I might rebuild into what you call a "Gish". But there is just one problem.... I'm not sure what classes I should choose.... I have two options in mind but I'm willing to listen to you guys :smallamused: :smallsmile:

Option 1: martial class 2/ wizard 8/ eldritch knight 10

Option 2: completely ignore eldritch knight and go
Martial class 3/ wizard 17

Any thoughts? Note: I want to have 9th level spells at endgame so my choices are limited :smallannoyed:

[Xerlith]

Any reasons you don't want to go Magus20?

Also, Martial3/Wizard17 is not a gish. It's a disaster.

Aasimar Fighter1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight10 works.

EDIT: Actually... I think I found a way to make use of the Bladecaster.

Peri-Blooded Aasimar Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) (Hawkguard) 1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight3/Bladecaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster)9/Eldritch Knight+6. Gets 9th level spells, +19BAB, ends up with some nice maneuvers and channeling-like abilities. All the caster level loss happens early, but you gish out from the very beginning.
Grab the Immortal Spark alternate racial feature to qualify.

Hawkguard Warder is bit suboptimal, but it sets your Initiating Ability to Intelligence which is nice.
If you're able to grab all martial proficiencies from somewhere (without losing levels) any other Warder archetype is better.

[Elricaltovilla]

Any reasons you don't want to go Magus20?

Also, Martial3/Wizard17 is not a gish. It's a disaster.

Aasimar Fighter1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight10 works.

EDIT: Actually... I think I found a way to make use of the Bladecaster.

Peri-Blooded Aasimar Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) (Hawkguard) 1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight3/Bladecaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster)9/Eldritch Knight+6. Gets 9th level spells, +19BAB, ends up with some nice maneuvers and channeling-like abilities. All the caster level loss happens early, but you gish out from the very beginning.
Grab the Immortal Spark alternate racial feature to qualify.

Hawkguard Warder is bit suboptimal, but it sets your Initiating Ability to Intelligence which is nice.
If you're able to grab all martial proficiencies from somewhere (without losing levels) any other Warder archetype is better.

All Warders use Intelligence as their initiating modifier.

[Xerlith]

I meant the Hawkguard archetype being suboptimal for a melee build, as opposed to the non-archetyped Warder.

But Hawkguard is needed because proficiencies.

And the alternative is Cha-centric Warlord.

That's why I said:

If you're able to grab all martial proficiencies from somewhere (without losing levels) any other Warder archetype is better.

[Elricaltovilla]

Ah, your original post didn't explain that it was the proficiencies you were trying to get from Hawkguard. I thought it was Int-focused initiating you were trying to get.

[Xerlith]

But... But you even cited the part where I remark on this... Well, doesn't matter. Let's see what OP thinks about this

[Elricaltovilla]

Hawkguard Warder is bit suboptimal, but it sets your Initiating Ability to Intelligence which is nice.
If you're able to grab all martial proficiencies from somewhere (without losing levels) any other Warder archetype is better.

Reads to me as "Hawkguard warder is suboptimal (compared to other warder archetypes), but is good because it sets your Initiating Modifier to Intelligence." Not "Hawkguard is the only Warder archetype which has proficiency with all martial weapons, and Warder is good because its Int based Initiating."

EDIT: As an attempt to get back on track with this the Bushi (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hHsiSKoL2nR4oWgzPKQwXfqYENuNkDmBiX323SlTPfc/edit) Class Template can be applied to a Warder to get martial weapon proficiency back, and access to the Mithral Current discipline.

[Xerlith]

EDIT: As an attempt to get back on track with this the Bushi (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hHsiSKoL2nR4oWgzPKQwXfqYENuNkDmBiX323SlTPfc/edit) Class Template can be applied to a Warder to get martial weapon proficiency back, and access to the Mithral Current discipline.

Ooh, shiny! I never noticed the proficeincy part. In that case, a Zweihander Bushi Warder is the best choice.

[TheWong]

Any reasons you don't want to go Magus20?

Also, Martial3/Wizard17 is not a gish. It's a disaster.

Aasimar Fighter1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight10 works.

EDIT: Actually... I think I found a way to make use of the Bladecaster.

Peri-Blooded Aasimar Warder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder) (Hawkguard) 1/Wizard1/Eldritch Knight3/Bladecaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/bladecaster)9/Eldritch Knight+6. Gets 9th level spells, +19BAB, ends up with some nice maneuvers and channeling-like abilities. All the caster level loss happens early, but you gish out from the very beginning.
Grab the Immortal Spark alternate racial feature to qualify.

Hawkguard Warder is bit suboptimal, but it sets your Initiating Ability to Intelligence which is nice.
If you're able to grab all martial proficiencies from somewhere (without losing levels) any other Warder archetype is better.


The thing is.... Magus hasn't exactly got the best spells has he...... And we are only using paizo published books. Thanks for suggesting the Aasmir build though :smallsmile:

[avr]

Hellknight Signifer is a full-casting, 3/4 BAB prestige class which might supplement or replace Eldritch Knight for your gish.

Depending on what exactly you want out of your 9th level spell casting you could possibly go with a divine class or even a (Synthesist) Summoner, which gets a number of normally 7th-9th level spells on its list.

[TheWong]

Hellknight Signifer is a full-casting, 3/4 BAB prestige class which might supplement or replace Eldritch Knight for your gish.

Depending on what exactly you want out of your 9th level spell casting you could possibly go with a divine class or even a (Synthesist) Summoner, which gets a number of normally 7th-9th level spells on its list.

That's a good idea :smallsmile: sorry bout this but I forgot to mention my character is neutral good? I strive to fight against the cheliax as well......

[Manly Man]

The thing is.... Magus hasn't exactly got the best spells has he...... And we are only using paizo published books. Thanks for suggesting the Aasmir build though :smallsmile:

In all seriousness, a Magus 20 is just about the perfect gish-in-a-can, tied with either the Inquisitor for a divine bent, or if you're allowed third-party and would rather buff yourself instead of debuff your enemies, Psychic Warrior. The PsyWar can fit pretty much any gish concept you can think of, honestly. With all the extra feats they can get, they are very much proof that high BAB is overrated.