PDA

View Full Version : Optimization Davion, the Dragon Knight OR Optimizing Draconic Resilience



Aron Times
2014-10-18, 01:28 PM
Davion, the Dragon Knight

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/Joseph_Silver/Dungeons%20and%20Dragons/Cosmetic_icon_Dragons_Ascension_zps44e96afe.png
Armor not included. Batteries sold separately.


The thread I started regarding multiclass cutoff points got me thinking about good multiclass gish builds, specifically those involving the sorcerer. Of particular interest are the dragon sorcerer's permanent "Mage Armor," which I really want to use for a gish, and the various ways of getting Extra Attack, so my character will be at least halfway decent in physical combat. Here's what I came up with.

Oh, before I begin, I'd like to note that the only optional rule that this guide assumes to be in use is multiclassing. If your DM doesn't allow multiclassing in this game, then obviously these builds can't be used. Other than multiclassing, no other assumptions are used; the guide doesn't assume that feats and the variant human race are allowed, and provides stat spreads for both racial options. Ask your DM first before using any build you find online.


The Builds

I recommend two ways of building this character, both of which follow the Warrior 5/Mage X build. I write "Mage X" because this build comes online with only a single sorcerer level. The key feature is the permanent Mage Armor, which enters the battlefield comes into play at level 1.

1. Fighter (Eldritch Knight) 5/ Dragon Sorcerer X

Highlights:


Draconic Resilience - You get a permanent Mage Armor that can't be dispelled. This saves you money on armor, and encourages you to boost dexterity. No armor + high dexterity means you can hide with the best of them. From a roleplaying perspective, you can have the protection of armor even in places where you aren't allowed to wear armor, e.g. when you're captured and stripped naked. At level 1, you have AC 18 with a shield or AC 16 with a bow (you can't use a shield with a bow). At level 9, you get up to AC 20 without armor, magic, or magic armor.
Extra Attack - Can attack twice per attack action, which is the same as non-fighter martial classes.
Caster Level 16 - Has the same number of spell slots as a single-class caster except for the 9th-level spell slot. Which isn't that big of a deal, considering you can only cast up to 8th-level spells anyway.
8th-Level Spells - Or rather, a single 8th-level spell known.
Increased Low-Level Spells Known - Two extra cantrips and four extra 1st-level spells. Be sure to pick spells that sorcerers can't already cast!
Action Surge - 1/rest, get a second action. This is a powerful enough ability to justify even a 2-level dip into fighter. In fact, during the open playtest, the best mage (wizards were called mages then) was a fighter 2/mage 18.
Weapon Bond - You cannot be disarmed! Leave your rapier with the guards, and when there's trouble, summon it to your hand.
Haste - One of the most powerful combat buffs in 5e, this gives you an extra attack per turn, starting with the turn you cast it. Quite useful with Twinned Spell.


Variant Human Starting Stats (27 Point-Buy):


Strength 10 (Dump stat, but lets you lift 15 lbs. per point.)
Dexterity 15 + 1 = 16 (The 5e god stat.)
Constitution 14 (HPs are always welcome.)
Intelligence 8 (Be sure to pick Eldritch Knight spells that don't require a saving throw or an attack roll.)
Wisdom 8
Charisma 15 + 1 = 16 (Your casting stat.)


For your bonus feat, pick War Caster. This allows you to cast spells while your hands are full, and also lets you use Shocking Grasp as an attack of opportunity. Fun times.

Standard Human Starting Stats (27 Point-Buy):



Strength 10 + 1 = 11 (We add our last point to strength because it is the only stat that has a mechanical benefit for odd values - carrying capacity. Each point of strength allows your character to carry 15 lbs., whereas adding the last point to intelligence or wisdom doesn't really do anything.)
Dexterity 15 + 1 = 16
Constitution 13 + 1 = 14
Intelligence 9 + 1 = 10 (See above.)
Wisdom 9 + 1 = 10
Charisma 15 + 1 = 16


The odd starting stats take advantage of the standard human's +1 to all stats.

Level Progression


Level
Class
Abilities
Caster Level
Spell Level
Notes


1
Sorcerer 1
Draconic Ancestor, Draconic Resilience
1
1st
Choose a fire dragon as your ancestor.


2
Fighter 1
Fighting Style, Second Wind
1
1st
Choose Dueling or Archery as your Fighting Style.


3
Fighter 2
Action Surge
1
1st



4
Fighter 3
Eldritch Knight, Weapon Bond
2
1st



5
Fighter 4
Stat Bump/Feat
2
1st
+2 Dex (Dexterity 18)


6
Fighter 5
Extra Attack
2
2nd



7
Sorcerer 2
Font of Magic
3
2nd



8
Sorcerer 3
Metamagic
4
2nd
Twinned Spell + Quickened Spell


9
Sorcerer 4
Stat Bump/Feat
5
2nd
+2 Dex (Dexterity 20)


10
Sorcerer 5
Haste

6
3rd



11
Sorcerer 6
Elemental Affinity
7
3rd



12
Sorcerer 7


8
4th



13
Sorcerer 8
Stat Bump/Feat
9
4th
+2 Cha (Charisma 18) or a feat of your choice.


14
Sorcerer 9

10
5th



15
Sorcerer 10
Extra Metamagic
11
5th
Heightened Spell or Empowered Spell (pick one)


16
Sorcerer 11

12
6th



17
Sorcerer 12
Stat Bump/Feat
13
6th
+2 Cha (Charisma 20) or a feat of your choice.


18
Sorcerer 13

14
7th



19
Sorcerer 14
"WENDY, I CAN FLY!"
15
7th
Remember to wear clothing with a hole in the back.


20
Sorcerer 15

16
8th




2. Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 5/Dragon Sorcerer X

Highlights:



Draconic Resilience - See above.
Extra Attack - Ditto.
Caster Level 17 - Has the same number of spell slots as a single-class caster. Single-class casters stop gaining spell slots at level 17, when they get their 9th-level and final spell slot.
8th-Level Spells - Or rather, a single 8th-level spell known.
Increased Low-Level Spells Known - Paladins know all of the spells in their spell list, and the addition of 5 paladin levels gives this class the ability to cast all 1st and 2nd-level paladin spells, and adds 7 prepared spells to your daily repertoire once you reach charisma 20.
Arcane Strike Divine Smite - Expend spell slots to deal extra damage in melee.
Immunity to disease - No more runny noses! No Ebola, AIDS, cancer, flu, etc.
Lay on Hands - Not only are you perfectly healthy, you can also make other people healthy, too!
Hunter's Quarry Mark + Oath Vow of Enmity - The striker features of the 4e ranger and the 4e avenger. Oh my!
Find Steed - You get the choice between a celestial/fey/fiend paladin mount. Cast the spell again to resummon your mount with full HP! Pretty much solves the problem with high-level characters with non-scaling mounts, since your mount will always have max HP by spending a lowly 2nd-level spell slot.
Haste - One of the most powerful combat buffs in 5e, this gives you an extra attack per turn, starting with the turn you cast it. With Twinned Spell, you can affect up to three targets: yourself, your paladin mount, and another ally.
Magic Weapon - Less devastating than Haste, this lets you fight monsters immune to nonmagical weapons, of which there are plenty. Note that you can't have both Haste and Magic Weapon up since they both require Concentration. Not a valid target for Twinned Spell, though, since it doesn't target a creature but rather a weapon.


Variant Human Starting Stats (27 Point-Buy):



Strength 13 (Required to multiclass into or out of paladin.)
Dexterity 15 + 1 = 16 (Initiative, attack rolls, damage rolls, dex saves, dex checks, etc. The god stat of 5e.)
Constitution 12 (You always need moar HP.)
Intelligence 8
Wisdom 8
Charisma 15 + 1 = 16 (Casting stat for paladin and sorcerer spells.)


As with the first build, pick War Caster as your bonus feat.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee136/Joseph_Silver/Dungeons%20and%20Dragons/StephenColbertPaladin_zps9fe5cecf.jpg

Standard Human Starting Stats (27 Point-Buy):



Strength 12 + 1 = 13
Dexterity 15 + 1 = 16
Constitution 11 + 1 = 12
Intelligence 9 + 1 = 10 (Dump stat, along with wisdom.)
Wisdom 9 + 1 = 10
Charisma 15 + 1 = 16


The odd starting stats take advantage of the standard human's +1 to all stats.

Level Progression


Level
Class
Abilities
Caster Level
Spell Level
Notes


1
Sorcerer 1
Draconic Ancestor, Draconic Resilience
1
1st
Choose a fire dragon as your ancestor.


2

Paladin 1
Divine Sense, Lay on Hands
1
1st



3
Paladin 2
Fighting Style, Divine Smite
2
1st
Choose Dueling as your Fighting Style.


4
Paladin 3
Divine Health, Oath of Vengeance
2
1st



5
Paladin 4
Stat Bump/Feat
3
1st
+2 Dex (Dexterity 18)


6
Paladin 5
Extra Attack, Find Steed, Magic Weapon +1

3
2nd



7

Sorcerer 2
Font of Magic
4
2nd



8
Sorcerer 3
Metamagic

5
2nd
Twinned Spell + Quickened Spell


9
Sorcerer 4
Stat Bump/Feat
6
2nd
+2 Dex (Dexterity 20)


10
Sorcerer 5
Haste

7
3rd



11
Sorcerer 6
Elemental Affinity
8
3rd



12
Sorcerer 7
Magic Weapon +2

9
4th



13
Sorcerer 8
Stat Bump/Feat
10
4th
+2 Cha (Charisma 18) or a feat of your choice.


14
Sorcerer 9

11
5th



15
Sorcerer 10
Extra Metamagic
12
5th
Heightened Spell or Empowered Spell (pick one)


16
Sorcerer 11
Magic Weapon +3

13
6th



17
Sorcerer 12
Stat Bump/Feat
14
6th
+2 Cha (Charisma 20) or a feat of your choice.


18

Sorcerer 13

15
7th



19
Sorcerer 14
"WENDY, I CAN FLY!"
16
7th
Remember to wear clothing with a hole in the back.


20
Sorcerer 15

17 (max)
8th





The Gear
For either build:



Rapier - 1d8+Dex+2 damage per hit, twice per turn. Three times per turn with Haste.
Shield - +2 AC, works with Dueling Fighting Style according to the developers.


For an Eldritch Knight archer:



Longbow - +2 bonus to attack rolls, 1d8+Dex damage per hit, twice per turn. Three times per turn with Haste.
Arrows - Duh.


For a Paladin:



Holy Symbol - Lets you use your Channel Divinity abilities. The developers have ruled that you can have your holy symbol emblazoned on your shield, so you don't need a free hand for it.


And that's all you need. The rest is up to you.

Changelog and FAQs
This space reserved for any questions, clarifications, and other additions to the original post.

10/18/2014 - Added information about key spells like Find Steed, Haste, and Magic Weapon.

Rfkannen
2014-10-19, 09:41 AM
Both seem to be pretty good builds. Although I must say that haveing a 9th level spell from the paladin build puts it a fair bit ahead of the other build. If my current character ever dies I may run something inspired by the second build. Seems like being a drow would also be a good varient of either build (as much as I do hate drow)

MaxWilson
2014-10-19, 10:32 AM
The tank in my current party is aiming for Paladin 6/Dragon Sorc 14 eventually, somewhat similar to your Paladin 5/Sorc X. Unlike you I don't see the dragon scales as a significant benefit since it doesn't even combo with Defensive Fighting Style, but it is still nice to have blasting/control options available on a SAD chassis. Paladin 6 is a really nice level because you get +CHA to all saves and all your nearby allies' saves; this is more important to us than 8th level spells from a secondary caster.

So anyway, I'm sorry I don't have anything interesting to say about your build, but I do at least agree that Paladin/Sorc is a good combo, FWIW.

Draken
2014-10-19, 11:09 AM
Quite honestly, if you are going Sorcerer/Paladin or Fighter I would prefer Sorc 14/Other class 6, over 15/5.

The 8th level spells available to the sorcerer are... Nice, but by no means a must have. In exchange for ditching one more blasting option, that spread gives you Access to a 9th level slot to blast with your lower level spells (quite good) and either another Ability Score Increase/Feat (fighter) or the rather amazing Aura of Protection (paladin), both of which I would personally value quite a bit above... Let me see what the options are...

Dominate Monster, Earthquake, Incendiary Cloud, Power Word Stun or Sunburst.

Some great spells, sure, but nothing you can't go without, I think.

Aron Times
2014-10-19, 12:08 PM
Both seem to be pretty good builds. Although I must say that haveing a 9th level spell from the paladin build puts it a fair bit ahead of the other build. If my current character ever dies I may run something inspired by the second build. Seems like being a drow would also be a good varient of either build (as much as I do hate drow)

Drow also works. Any race with a bonus to Dex and Cha works for this build.


The tank in my current party is aiming for Paladin 6/Dragon Sorc 14 eventually, somewhat similar to your Paladin 5/Sorc X. Unlike you I don't see the dragon scales as a significant benefit since it doesn't even combo with Defensive Fighting Style, but it is still nice to have blasting/control options available on a SAD chassis. Paladin 6 is a really nice level because you get +CHA to all saves and all your nearby allies' saves; this is more important to us than 8th level spells from a secondary caster.

So anyway, I'm sorry I don't have anything interesting to say about your build, but I do at least agree that Paladin/Sorc is a good combo, FWIW.

Hm... I'll look into Paladin 6/Sorcerer 14. +Cha to all saves sounds nice. Less magical ability, more survivability. However, if I'm not going to be using the free Mage Armor, I might try building him as a wild mage instead of as a dragon sorcerer. Heavy Armor + Paladin Mount + Wild Magic? Sounds like Nessaj, the Chaos Knight from the same game (DotA). Coincidentally, the Chaos Knight is one of my favorite heroes, along with the Dragon Knight (I love gishes).

As for your parting comment, what areyou talking about? You did have something interesting to say about my build, in that you posted an alternate version that your party member is using!


Quite honestly, if you are going Sorcerer/Paladin or Fighter I would prefer Sorc 14/Other class 6, over 15/5.

The 8th level spells available to the sorcerer are... Nice, but by no means a must have. In exchange for ditching one more blasting option, that spread gives you Access to a 9th level slot to blast with your lower level spells (quite good) and either another Ability Score Increase/Feat (fighter) or the rather amazing Aura of Protection (paladin), both of which I would personally value quite a bit above... Let me see what the options are...

Dominate Monster, Earthquake, Incendiary Cloud, Power Word Stun or Sunburst.

Some great spells, sure, but nothing you can't go without, I think.

Already mentioned in the above post, but thanks for the info. I'll post a few more builds with more paladin levels in a bit.

Abithrios
2014-10-19, 12:42 PM
If you are choosing dexterity over strength for your weapon attacks, is there some particular reason you're keeping a higher strength than wisdom? My impression is that wisdom saves are more common and worse to fail than strength based things that cannot be be replaced with dexterity.

Aron Times
2014-10-19, 12:54 PM
You need a minimum of 13 strength and Charisma to be able to multiclassing indoor out of paladin. Basically, in 5e, you need to meet some minimum stats for both your starting class and your second class. A paladin that doesn't have both 13 strength and charisma can't multiclass at all.

edge2054
2014-10-19, 01:21 PM
I think I'd like a strength version of the paladin/sorc build the best. Doesn't really optimize for draconic resilience but it does mean I can make a character that looks like that awesome picture!

Seriously though I think there's more synergy with the strength build since you already need 13 for multiclassing. At 20 Dex the Dex build hits the AC of Platemail, which is nice, but I'm assuming that magical armor will be a thing this edition. Meaning that the heavy armor paladin will eventually end up with more AC then the Dex paladin. Granted, you may be able to pick up Bracers of Defense or something along those lines, but DnD is a group game and frankly I'd be pretty pissed if a character that could wear platemail took Bracers of Defense (19) or something from a squishy.

That aside, I love the layout of this guide. I find the typical guide layouts on this and other DnD sites really hard to read. Not just from an organization standpoint but also because of all the colors. Causes a lot of eye strain for me.

I also liked how you left a lot to the reader when it comes to fine tuning.

So I hope you write more guides!