Lich weirdness

[Laesin]

What would happen if a 15+ level wizard were to cast clone then go through the ritual to become a lich? Would this result in the clone failing, the lich ritual failing or both failing? On a related note what happens if a lich casts clone in advance to speed up the resurrection process?

[Jack Mann]

The lich ritual will fail. As soon as he dies, his soul is instantly transported to the living clone body.

[Caelestion]

Well, the Clone spell is ready for the wizard to die, which then grabs the soul if it's free to return and sticks it in the body. The whole point of the phylactery is catch the soul and keep it perenially free of the lich's body. Provided that the wizard doesn't die after he makes the phylactery and before he performs the ritual to transfer his soul, the phylactery should kick in first.

[Clementx]

Since the wizard is immediately turned into an undead creature (as far as the Lich template says), that renders the soul unable to return, and the clone remains inert. Clone doesn't say what resurrection spell it emulates, so it is up the DM to decide it if would ever be able to return the lich to life if he and his phylactery are destroyed (as resurrection) or not (as raise dead.

[Arbitrarity]

But if someone kills the lich, and his phylactry (SP), he still comes back in his clone!

[Clementx]

Arb, clone doesn't say which resurrection spell it replicates, and the stated effects are consistent with the two I stated already. One works on destroyed undead, turning them into the creatures they were in life. The other doesn't.

Reading comprehension FTW.

[Collin152]

to be fair, those parts of the spells, which you admit clone does not alude to, specify the condition of the body for the spell to function, and Clone creates a new one.

[Clementx]

to be fair, those parts of the spells, which you admit clone does not alude to, specify the condition of the body for the spell to function, and Clone creates a new one.
And the other part they differ in is their effect on destroyed undead. Last paragraph

Reading Comprehension FTOW.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'd houserule that the unspeakable (so evil the Monster Manual won't describe it; therefore unspeakable) evil of becoming a Lich corrupts the soul so that you can't be returned as a non-lich. If someone breaks your Phylactery then he just broke your soul! and you can't return ever.

Otherwise it depends on what ressurection spell it's closer to. Since both the Phylactery and the Clone trigger on death I think they'd both get triggered at the same time. Depends if the lich ritual kills you and then raises you or cuts death out of the equation. I suspect the poor lich's soul would either get torn in two (half going to the clone, half to the phylactery) or the Lich ritual (remember it involves inspeakable evil not just some flesh and 1000 gp worth of stuff) would be strong enough to collect the entire soul and not allow even a table scrap for the clone.

[Quietus]

I think it'd be pretty entertaining to try and make the clone into your phylactery. Then you could potentially have TWO of you running around, though that won't really help with keeping the phylactery in one peice.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I think it'd be pretty entertaining to try and make the clone into your phylactery. Then you could potentially have TWO of you running around, though that won't really help with keeping the phylactery in one peice.

If I was going to make a person into my Phylactery I'd turn the Paladin's girl friend into my Phylactery. If I did it to the Paladin he'd just try to kill himself but he'd never let someone kill his girlfriend. Then I'd be using good against itself which is great because good guys always win so I always win as well.

[EvilElitest]

I would be interesting if once the lich phywhatever (as Xycon would say) is destroyed, and the lich's body was destroyed, he'd come back as a living clone. NOt the real soul, but the clone thinking it is the real soul. Much like Manshoon in FR.
from,
EE

[kamikasei]

I would be interesting if once the lich phywhatever (as Xycon would say) is destroyed, and the lich's body was destroyed, he'd come back as a living clone. NOt the real soul, but the clone thinking it is the real soul. Much like Manshoon in FR.
from,
EE

The clone spell can only capture the soul of the caster. It can't create a facsimile of the caster if the caster's soul is unable to enter the body created. Therefore if you were to destroy a lich, and destroy its phylactery, and its clone show up, it would be because the lich's real, honest soul had gone from the phylactery to the clone. Whether that's possible is debatable, but it's the only way a clone of a lich could get up and lay claim to the lich's name.

[DaMullet]

I think it would be an interesting way to handle a recurring villain, and I'd allow it. Hell, even make it a quest to stop the Clone from becoming a lich again.

[jjpickar]

DaMullet's idea is one of the better ways to make a recurring villain I've heard in a long time. My complements to the Plot making chef.

[Ramza00]

I'd houserule that the unspeakable (so evil the Monster Manual won't describe it; therefore unspeakable) evil of becoming a Lich corrupts the soul so that you can't be returned as a non-lich. If someone breaks your Phylactery then he just broke your soul! and you can't return ever.


Not even by wish or miracle :smalleek:

[Stormthorn]

he just broke your soul!


Yes, but the shards are still around and can theoreticly be pulled into one or more new thingies.
As a side note: Can a demilich devour a normal liches soul with its soul sucking ability?