General Anime/Manga Discussion 13.5: Recap Episode

[Sallera]

Previous threads:
General Anime Discussion (née The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11932)
General Anime Discussion A's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82391)
General Anime Discussion StrikerS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94218)
∀ General Anime Discussion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100448)
G General Anime Discussion - Typing FINGER! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112197)
Anime/General Discussion: Paradox Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122049)
Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129473)
General Anime Discussion: The 08th GAD Team (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138873)
General Anime Discussion: Not An Anime!/⑨ is the strongest! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149190)
General Anime Discussion: After War GADam X (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161385)
General Anime Discussion: Area 11 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200541)
General Anime/Manga Discussion: Twelve Thread-doms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277941)
General Anime/Manga Discussion: Where Are We Golgoing 13? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?321686-General-Anime-Manga-Discussion-Where-Are-We-Golgoing-13)

[Duck999]

I believe I was just thread ninja'd (in a way. I posted when the new thread was created).
Well, I have a question that I forgot to ask previously, but I guess I'll ask it here now. How often do arcs between anime and manga match up. Could you read the first arc in the manga and watch the second in the anime? How often can you do that successfully?
(I realize it would be skipping episode 14, but the title might be better as 14.5, not 13.5.)
Edit: Read your post in the other thread, but wouldn't having episode 14 next set the thread number back one? I guess it could work out...

[mallorean_thug]

Cont. from the last thread:

Yes.
So they are adopted siblings. I'm still amazed it isn't revealed in the original fate/stay night. You also (kind of) learn that shirou is kiritsugu's adopted son at the end of fate zero.

. . .
It is revealed in the Fate/stay night VN. It is not mentioned in DEEN's adaption because DEEN's adaption only adapts the first 1/3 of the VN, and that fact is a major twist/spoiler used in the later 2/3s of the VN . . . The later 2/3s of the VN that are getting adapted right now by ufotable

Its stuff like this this that makes statements like

I watched fate zero before watching (what I believe is) the original fate/stay night. It did spoil some twists, but not as many as fate/stay night spoils for fate zero.
completely ridiculous. You have no idea just how badly Fate/Zero spoils things for F/SN because more than half of F/SN doesn't currently have a good adaption.


EDIT: Adding this from the end of the last thread so it doesn't get missed:
Also, IMO, F/SN can't "spoil" things for Fate/Zero anymore than the main OotS comics can spoil Start of Darkness or On the Origin of PCs. Prequels are designed to be read at the point they're published, not before the main work in some kind of screwy chronological order.

[Sallera]

I believe I was just thread ninja'd (in a way. I posted when the new thread was created).
Well, I have a question that I forgot to ask previously, but I guess I'll ask it here now. How often do arcs between anime and manga match up. Could you read the first arc in the manga and watch the second in the anime? How often can you do that successfully?
(I realize it would be skipping episode 14, but the title might be better as 14.5, not 13.5.)
Edit: Read your post in the other thread, but wouldn't having episode 14 next set the thread number back one? I guess it could work out...

Nah, it just depends on whether you consider the first thread episode 1 or episode 0. :smalltongue:

It depends mostly on how faithful the adaptation is, but if the manga is plotted tightly enough to have well-defined story arcs, I'd say chances are good the adaptation will include the same arcs. If there's a lot of filler in the anime, or alternately the manga was a bit sparse on content to begin with and the adaptation expanded on it naturally, switching back and forth might be a bit jarring.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, I don't think a reliable rule of thumb exists for adaptations, it's a per-work decision. For instance, FMA: Brotherhood is a very tight, precise adaptation of the manga. You could most definitely go between the two with ease. Bleach is...not so much.

[Mx.Silver]

On the FSN/FZ viewing order: just pick whichever you'd rather. According the talk before it launched, the current series was at least in part made with the (not unreasonable) assumption that it would be following on from Zero for a good chunk of its audience in mind.



Pretty sure Recap Episode had more votes, so I went with 13.5 for the number in order to allow us Second Cour next time. Compromise! :3
That's a dangerously reasonably attitude to take on the internet :smalltongue:

At this rate, I'll have to expand on what I disliked about Madoka's ending just to get things back to normal.
Or just post the 'worst' list of the 'stuff I saw in the last six months'*.




*I'm not going to do this.

[HamHam]

So Gundam G-Reco is weird. Like... really really weird. Everyone acting completely nonsensically, the plot is incomprehensible, and it doesn't help that the character designs are a weird hybrid of Eureka 7 and Gundam's 80s original designs.

[Drascin]

So Gundam G-Reco is weird. Like... really really weird. Everyone acting completely nonsensically, the plot is incomprehensible, and it doesn't help that the character designs are a weird hybrid of Eureka 7 and Gundam's 80s original designs.

I'm told this is one of Tomino's most consistent traits as an author.

[Tengu_temp]

Tomino has a very specific storytelling style, where the plot and the setting are often shown by things happening in the background, or in blink-and-you-miss-it moments, and rarely spelled out aloud. Also, his characters rarely explain their motivations, and often preach one thing and practice another, or otherwise act in ways inconsistent with their beliefs, but consistent with their personalities - like real people. He also likes to build stuff long-term, both in terms of setting and characters - you only get scraps of information in every episode, and only amassing enough scraps lets you see the bigger picture.

Combine all of the above with the fact that Tomino seems to be an alien who's very good at noticing how people act but very bad at understanding why they act that way, and you get an extremely weird writing style that can be hard to pierce by people not used to it. But you get used to it eventually.

As for the characters designs, I suggest the G-Reco drinking game: each time you see a widely open, irregularily-shaped mouth, take a shot.

[StabbityRabbit]

Recently I finished Deadman Wonderland (the anime).
I don't think I've ever been so mad at an ending in my life. Ganta kills elite goon Genkaku, and season ends. What? I get that killing Genkaku needed to be a thing, but it's not like he runs Deadman Wonderland. Killing him doesn't really change a whole lot.

Not to mention the ending scene where Shiro and Ganta are on a roof. I'm not sure if that scene meant they were free or not. Then he draws a connection between Shiro and the Wretched Egg, and nothing happens. It almost felt like the scene was just reminding you that his new best friend killed his old ones. I wouldn't have minded if they had done something with it, but the creators just sort of said "Hey that was a thing!"

The entire ending left me feeling like I had three quarters of a jigsaw puzzle. So netflix said "Hey want to watch episode 13?" and my brain said back "Yeah they should answer some unresolved questions". NOPE! It was an entire pointless episode of backstory on a side character.

Suffice it to say that I did not like episode 12 or 13.

So any good anime that someone could recommend to me?

[Duck999]

I recommend Code Geass if you haven't seen it.
Also, i am currently watching Irregular at Magic Highschool, which is good.
I am also watching Akame Ga Kill which is very good.
I recommend any of those if you haven't seen them.

[Mx.Silver]

Deadman Wonderland is rather infamous for 'ending' at around the halfway point (the manga carried on for another two years), then never got another season as it wasn't deemed successful enough.
Same thing happened to its contemporary Kamisama Dolls, but no one really cared because it's Kamisama Dolls.



So any good anime that someone could recommend to me?
Time to dust-off the 'less-popular good stuff on crunchyroll' list...
Blast of Tempest (http://www.crunchyroll.com/blast-of-tempest)
Erin (http://www.crunchyroll.com/erin)
The Eccentric Family (http://www.crunchyroll.com/the-eccentric-family)
From the New World (http://www.crunchyroll.com/shin-sekai-yori-from-the-new-world)
Kids on the Slope (http://www.crunchyroll.com/kids-on-the-slope)
Natsume Yujin-cho (http://www.crunchyroll.com/natsume-yujin-cho)

Also since the new series starts in February, now might be a good time to watch Durarara (http://www.crunchyroll.com/durarara) if you haven't already seen it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also since the new series starts in February, now might be a good time to watch Durara (http://www.crunchyroll.com/durarara) if you haven't already seen it.
Also, Baccano!, which is not explicitly tied to Durarara!! for the most part, but is by the same author, has exactly one exclamation point less, and has some shoutouts in Durarara!!.

[Duck999]

Ah yes. I am also watching from the new world. Pretty good. Durarara is good.

Does anyone know when the fourth season of durarara ends? I assume it is late next year. And there is going to be a fifth in 2016, right?

Edit: Here (http://www.anime-planet.com/users/Duck999/anime) is a list of animes I watched/watch. The site also has some other cool features. It is pretty useful if you want to keep track of animes.

[Tengu_temp]

I suggest watching Baccano before Durarara, because that makes the scene where
Isaac and Miria show up
several times better.

And after those two, watch Samurai Flamenco from the same director.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I suggest watching Baccano before Durarara, because that makes the scene where
Isaac and Miria show up
several times better.

And after those two, watch Samurai Flamenco from the same director.
Agreed on both points.

Also, as bonus easter eggs (beyond the major one mentioned), they show a certain climactic scene from Baccano! in the background on various screens in Durarara!!

[mallorean_thug]

Does anyone know when the fourth season of durarara ends? I assume it is late next year. And there is going to be a fifth in 2016, right?


Durarara's second season is going to be a 3 split-cour show. The first cour will air Winter season, the second in Summer season, and the 3rd in winter season of 2016. Source (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2014-10-04/durarara-2-casts-m.a.o-kappei-yamaguchi-hiro-shimono-yuuki-ono/.79552) We currently don't have air dates or episode counts, so its impossible to say any more than that. (though obviously each cour will be 12-13 episodes)


Edit: Here is a list of animes I watched/watch. The site also has some other cool features. It is pretty useful if you want to keep track of animes.

I personally find the feature set of MyAnimeList to be much much better.

[Duck999]

The thing I like about anime-planet is that it also has character ratings and total time.
I am not sure about myanimelist. What features does it have?

[HamHam]

You know, in Battletech the fact that mechs are secured with password and biometrics comes up fairly often.

No one in any Gundam continuity has ever had this idea.

[Prime32]

You know, in Battletech the fact that mechs are secured with password and biometrics comes up fairly often.

No one in any Gundam continuity has ever had this idea.No one designing tanks has ever had that idea either. Mainly because it's pretty hard to steal a tank in the first place.

[StabbityRabbit]

Thanks for the suggestions! I just watched the first episode of Baccano! and I really like it.

Anyway I'm kind of new to watching anime so what sites do you guys usually use. I'm used to netflix, but its selection is rather lacking so I need a new one. I seem to be asking for lots of suggestions today.

[Duck999]

Crunchyroll! Crunchyroll is a great site, though there is no lack of adds. The quality is good, and it has a large selection. Though there are some shows it does not have, I use it when I can.

[HamHam]

No one designing tanks has ever had that idea either. Mainly because it's pretty hard to steal a tank in the first place.

Stealing mobile suits on the other hand is super easy.

[Terraoblivion]

Crunchyroll! Crunchyroll is a great site, though there is no lack of adds. The quality is good, and it has a large selection. Though there are some shows it does not have, I use it when I can.

Unless you pay. Then they remove the ads.

[Duck999]

Unless you pay. Then they remove the ads.

And you can watch episodes sooner. Usually there isn't a large delay, but slme things like Akame Ga Kill have a 1 week delay.

[Mx.Silver]

Thanks for the suggestions! I just watched the first episode of Baccano! and I really like it.

Anyway I'm kind of new to watching anime so what sites do you guys usually use. I'm used to netflix, but its selection is rather lacking so I need a new one. I seem to be asking for lots of suggestions today.

Crunchyroll is usually my go-to site (as links to the shows I mentioned before would suggest). Good streaming quality, wide selection of series, legal, and able to be used free of charge (with ads). If you're in North America then I believe Funimation also have a similar streaming service for their licensed shows (of which they have a fair amount), but that's not available to those of us in the rest of the world.
Animax have a fairly international online (paid) VOD service. Their library of series isn't very large though, at least not in Europe anyway.

[Terraoblivion]

And you can watch episodes sooner. Usually there isn't a large delay, but slme things like Akame Ga Kill have a 1 week delay.

I'm pretty sure it's a fixed one-week delay.

Also, the site is essentially the only source of legal streaming outside the US, though its utility for that drops markedly if you aren't in the British Isles, the Benelux or Scandinavia from what I've heard. I only have real experience with Scandinavia and an Irish friend. It seems to be improving in this regard, though.

[Duck999]

It's fixed? mAre there shows that are available tomeveryone immdiately, because I think the SAO episode was available immediately for me.

Also, is the Crunchyroll app glitchy for anyone else? A lot, if not all of the ads make the app crash.

[Cobalt]

I run into trouble with the Crunchyroll app usually just because my phone is crud, but it's never crashed because of an ad. At least not yet.


So just the other week I finished Nisekoi. The total lack of resolution for literally any plot points that were introduced was more than a little frustrating. I'm told that the next season shouldn't be expected to do any differently. The show makes me happy, sad, and angry at the same time, which I guess can be the hallmark of a good anime, if we want it to be.

Love Live! season 1 on the other hand just makes me happy, and is universally accepted as average at best, so so far the measurement's consistent. Apparently a lot of people really hate the CGI scenes; I admit, they're weird and somewhat out of place. But they're hardly a deal-breaker, and as the first idol show I've watched it's not bad. I've seen the first half of the first episode of Idol Master (I was interrupted) and it was more jarring for me than Love Live!'s CGI that apparently the guy doesn't get a voice actor.

I'm bad at keeping up with shows every week, so I'm behind on some of this season's stuff. But I'm tracking Terra Formars and When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace, and saw the first two episodes of both (and the first OVA of Terra Formars). I might just put off Terra Formars until the uncensored version comes out, because this is literally ridiculous and impossible to see what's going on. Reminds me of what I've seen of Pupa. When Supernatural Battles Became Commonplace is good, but I got my fill of chuunibyou when I watched Chuunibyou. Although here the powers are real, so it's different and I'm getting over it. Good show.

[Terraoblivion]

Given that Love Live has averaged sales above 40k per volume, has a massive peripheral demographic and might actually outproduce Touhou for yuri doujins at the moment, I feel pretty safe in saying that a lot of people really like it.

That said, I couldn't get into it when I tried watching it last week. It's like K-On with flatter characters, lower budget, less interesting cinematography and more generic music...And if I wanted K-On, I'd just watch K-On. So, um, yeah, not sure I see why this specific show took off like that. Totally inoffensive though, I just found it really dull, especially when getting flashbacks to a show that did most of these things and did them better.

[Winthur]

Stealing mobile suits on the other hand is super easy.

The first two episodes of Gundam Zeta feel like a GTA game gone bad right, to be honest.

It starts off with punching a guy for a slight, then getting a wanted level, escaping, stealing a car, crashing it somewhere by bad driving, and then waltzing into a military base and stealing a mobile suit, then heading to the big [QB] blink on the map and voila, Kamille is now a member of the mafia AEUG.

Pretty sure Bright's bitchslap was the way to tell Amuro "You're a busta, straight busta" all those years earlier.

Now, with all the Ubisoft open-world drivel GTA clones out there, why isn't there one such franchise with mechs?

Also, finished Trigun. It was a good anime, but felt a tad bit unfinished in places.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, finished Trigun. It was a good anime, but felt a tad bit unfinished in places.
Yeah, I'd agree with this assessment. In a few ways, it's rough around the edges but has good heart. (I definitely like the Trigun Maximum storyline, and have a futile hope that Trigun Maximum will one day be animated.)

[Duck999]

My rating on Irregular at Magic Highschool just went up. It is one of the animes that made me go:
Yes! YES! Oh my god! Yes! Finally! yay! Yes!

Edit: Though the squealing that followed did not sound nice.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So I finally started checking out HaNaYaMaTa. Two episodes in; the first one hooked me, the second one double-hooked me. I'm in this one for the (12-episode) long haul.

Hana* gives me life. :smallbiggrin:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/HanaTsundere.png

Hana, you weeaboo. :smalltongue:

Also, the opening is already starting to earworm its way into my head.

*it's subtitled as "Hana", but it feels like, since she's American, it's probably "Hannah", and it sounds like they're saying "Hanna".

[Terraoblivion]

Hana and Yaya's interactions are quite glorious in general. Also, I look forward to hearing your thoughts after finishing it.

Also, Tami-oneesan is best girl. Everybody who says otherwise are objectively wrong. :smallbiggrin:

More seriously, though, I love all five girls along with Sally-sensei.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Also, finished Trigun. It was a good anime, but felt a tad bit unfinished in places.

Oh yeah, that's something I still haven't watched. I was kinda stuck for something after finishing Accel World.

Also Samurai Champloo.

I'm playing Cave Story+ right now though, and anime demand that I look at the screen, but it'll be good between instances of getting teeth pulled attempting to get through Blood-Stained Sanctuary.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, Tami-oneesan is best girl. Everybody who says otherwise are objectively wrong. :smallbiggrin:

In fairness, I've technically not really met her. :smallwink: (I like how they're gradually rolling the characters in. It's much easier to keep them straight. Double easy because the anime's title is an acronym/mnemonic, but.)

So, one thing I really like about Hana's character is that she's persistent but at the same time respectful. It went from playing her pursuit of Naru for laughs to her apologizing for being so pushy, which was what started overcoming Naru's reluctance. I thought that was pretty neat.

Hana's boundless (well, apparently so) enthusiasm and pouncing is wonderful. I loved her standing out in the middle of everything, with the sign for the yosakoi club. Also, SHE'S A FREERUNNER. That made me so happy and also explained how she was able to do ninja things in the episode. Also, I thought it was cool how she brought superheroes into it ("Superheroes all battle loneliness"--remarkably keen insight) and into her passion for yosakoi.

It was cool (and heartwarming) to see the second episode focusing on Yaya and Naru's relationship. Naru's just an absolute sweetheart. And yes, Yaya is a total tsundere.

The other thing I really liked was that they didn't get overly caught up in Naru's initial "I'm just a 100% average person" mindset. They mentioned it, but really didn't harp on it. I think that was just enough.

And it's wonderful to see a show about people (well, Hana, at least) who are devoting themselves to a passion. I love seeing people get excited about things that matter to them, and it makes me want to check out those things too.

Plus, COLORS EVERYWHERE. I love the color palette of this show.

EDIT: Just started Episode 3. Dying from the amazingness of that parody.

[Grinner]

I'm starting Paprika now.

'Prepare to enter the realm of fantasy and imagination - where reality and dreams collide in a kaleidoscopic mindscape of sheer visual genius. The magical tale centers on a revolutionary machine that allows scientists to enter and record a subject's dream. After it is stolen, a fearless detective and brilliant therapist join forces to recover the device before it falls into the hands of a "dream terrorist" in this gripping anime thriller from acclaimed director Satoshi Kon.'

This should be fun. :smallbiggrin:

Edit:
Is this reality, or are we still dreaming?

That's a great question. It's one I've spent the last hour trying to figure out.

Overall, I'd say it's a pretty good film. Not as great as the expectations I had developed for it, but I suppose that's a result of the film's plot. See, it loses a lot of coherency towards the end, when reality and dream meld together. It's actually very disorienting, since we see that dream-induced suicide is a favored method of assassination, giving rise to a continuous concern for the characters' physical well-being.

In spite of that, there's a very subtle humor throughout the movie. Explaining the jokes might ruin them, though. Essentially, the entire film seems like an exercise in dramatic irony and wordplay, made apparent only after the film's conclusion.

There's a strong theme of duality throughout the movie, too. It's kinda hard to explain, but it's typified by the relationships between many of the characters. There's a pattern there. It's most apparent in Chiba and Paprika, but it's definitely present in the Chairman and Osanai too. Those two pairings in and of themselves form another duality. There's more to it than that, though...It's kinda hard to put a finger on.

While they don't really share a whole lot in common, I'm reminded of Serial Experiments Lain, what with all the warped reality and everything. It's a superficial resemblance, though. Honestly, the movie seems a lot more like Akira. It begins fairly coherently, and by the end, you're left wondering what you just spent the last thirty minutes watching.

Also, we never find out what happens to the Chairman. Presumably, he's left comatose after his spat with Chiba/Paprika, but they don't spend any screen time on it. Guess it wasn't that important after all.

Never did find out where that parade was heading, either. Oblivion?

[mallorean_thug]

Also, Tami-oneesan is best girl. Everybody who says otherwise are objectively wrong. :smallbiggrin:

Imo, Na>Ha>Ma>Ta>Ya.

[Sith_Happens]

Also, i am currently watching Irregular at Magic Highschool, which is good.


My rating on Irregular at Magic Highschool just went up. It is one of the animes that made me go:
Yes! YES! Oh my god! Yes! Finally! yay! Yes!

Edit: Though the squealing that followed did not sound nice.

Between this and the show's apparent popularity I have to ask: Do things ever actually start happening in it? Because watching the first five episodes at a convention is a strong contender for Most Boring Two Hours of My Life.

[mallorean_thug]

Between this and the show's apparent popularity I have to ask: Do things ever actually start happening in it? Because watching the first five episodes at a convention is a strong contender for Most Boring Two Hours of My Life.

I was just going to let those posts pass because I dropped the show several episodes in, people have different tastes, and I'd much rather talk about stuff I like than stuff I don't like . . but since you asked: NO (http://thecartdriver.com/mahouka-is-terrible-on-every-level-a-final-review/).

[Ibrinar]

I was just going to let those posts pass because I dropped the show several episodes in, people have different tastes, and I'd much rather talk about stuff I like than stuff I don't like . . but since you asked: NO (http://thecartdriver.com/mahouka-is-terrible-on-every-level-a-final-review/).

After the first anime episode I think I actually had hope that it might be entertaining. Then I read a bit ahead in the manga and dropped it a few episodes in. I mostly agree with the posts on thecartdriver.com

[Sallera]

I liked a lot of the side characters, but I cringed every time the two leads were alone on screen together. Even if the show suits your tastes, it probably won't rate much better than 'thoroughly mediocre.' Given its length, probably best avoided.

[Terraoblivion]

Imo, Na>Ha>Ma>Ta>Ya.

Mine goes Ta>Ma>Ya>Na>Ha, but I really love all of them, so it's really minor distinctions overall. And all of them are made greater from their interactions with the others.

[Sith_Happens]

I was just going to let those posts pass because I dropped the show several episodes in, people have different tastes, and I'd much rather talk about stuff I like than stuff I don't like . . but since you asked: NO (http://thecartdriver.com/mahouka-is-terrible-on-every-level-a-final-review/).

Good to know. Seriously, the last 5-10 minutes of episode five was the school being attacked by terrorists, and the show still managed to make it boring. Mind-numbingly so. How do you even do that?:smallconfused:

[Terraoblivion]

Good to know. Seriously, the last 5-10 minutes of episode five was the school being attacked by terrorists, and the show still managed to make it boring. Mind-numbingly so. How do you even do that?:smallconfused:

Talking everything to death?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Halfway through HaNaYaMaTa! So it's recap time! But first...

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/YayaGlare.png

This show just keeps bringing reasons for me to like it. Maybe I'm a born sap, but I loved the ending of Episode 6, where they performed their yosakoi routine for the class. To me, that's emblematic of the entire show, the fact that yosakoi (or any art, for that matter!) has something that stirs the human soul. I love that what sells each character on yosakoi is the performance itself. They want to do it because it's beautiful. That's so cool!

Oh, Hana. I had plenty of facepalms during YaYa and Hana's Afternoon Out. You really should try to be a little more sensitive. :smalltongue: In general, I'm really enjoying how the characters are fleshing out: they're all showing foibles and strengths. Hana is probably the most obvious example, where she's...actually...very American. :smallbiggrin: In good and in bad. (I do enjoy that aspect of the show, portraying an American in Japan.)

ANIKI IN A BUNNY COSTUME. That was the best. :smallcool: (And apparently "aniki" is also Yakuza slang, which is all sorts of funny given that Hana was calling him a gangster before.) I love that he's just an unabashed fanboy of yosakoi; he's like the girls, but all grown up. Oh, and the bit with the massive middle-school yosakoi group was really cool. I'm not seeing them quite set up as rivals, more as "this is you, if you keep working at it"...but I don't think it's story-irrelevant that they showed up. Also, what's a "sea monk"?

Tami-oneechan is great. :smallbiggrin: First of all, her character-centric episode was really good. I also am happy that her father told her about the smaller yosakoi festival. I'm thinking that maybe he's either had a change of heart, or else Tami-oneechan is changing her own interests and hobbies according to her idea of what her father wants (which is not always something she's in touch with). That's just a suspicion, however, and there could be a change-of-heart arc for her father in store. Finally, I adore how caring she is, especially for Naru.

I'm really eager to see what's up with Machi. We've seen almost nothing so far, and it's halfway through! Clearly she's been fighting hard behind the scenes so that Naru doesn't make a contract to become a magical girl. :smallwink: She's close to Tami, and I liked how she laid things out clearly for Tami during her episode, but we don't know why she's friends with Tami yet...

Yaya-chan has amazing hair.

Total aside: does anyone have recommendations of other anime OPs that are as perfectly-choreographed as HaNaYaMaTa's? (As in, they actually weave the animation of the OP around the song, and even worked the music into it. Plus the fact that they're performing their dance in the OP.)

[Sallera]

All I can really think of off the top of my head is the first Hyouka OP (may or may not be quite what you're looking for, but I just rewatched it and I think it's pretty good in that regard; I especially like the bit around :56).

Oh, and Lucky Star, of course, but you probably know that one already. :smalltongue:

[Terraoblivion]

Not sure about ops, but the first Free ending and at least the last two K-On endings do. Also, the K-On endings are just all around amazing and worth watching.

[Duck999]

I liked a lot of the side characters, but I cringed every time the two leads were alone on screen together. Even if the show suits your tastes, it probably won't rate much better than 'thoroughly mediocre.' Given its length, probably best avoided.

That is true. It's not the best anime, but it has its moments, depending on your taste.

[Ibrinar]

Tried the first two Hanayamata epis because someone here posted about it. I think I might watch it, seems nice. But the show really makes it easy to interpret everything from a shipping perspective.^^

[mallorean_thug]

Total aside: does anyone have recommendations of other anime OPs that are as perfectly-choreographed as HaNaYaMaTa's? (As in, they actually weave the animation of the OP around the song, and even worked the music into it. Plus the fact that they're performing their dance in the OP.)

So, are you looking for choreographed dance OP/EDs, character song OP/EDs (as in sung by members of the voice cast), or just really nicely animated OP/EDs? I think there are basically none of the first option, and too many to list of the last option, so maybe the second option is a good discussion topic?

When I think of character song OP/EDs, I pretty much immediately think of all of the *Monogatari openings. Other than that that's good . . . umm the Ano Hana ED I guess. Nana Mizuki stuff?

[Terraoblivion]

Lots of OP/EDs are sung by the major members of the show's cast. Often they have nothing to do with the show, but still. Bouken Desho Desho from Haruhi was sung by Aya Hirano, while Hare Hare Yukai was sung by her, Yuko Goto and Minori Chihara and that's the voices of Haruhi, Mikuru and Yuki respectively. In general, KyoAni loves making their female vocal staff supply OPs and EDs, K-On stands out in this regard as well. And, yes, anything that casts Nana Mizuki will use her for them since she's one of the most successful Japanese musicians and has been for something like a decade. Yukari Tamura, probably most known outside her musical career for voicing Nanoha Takamachi, is much the same, just not quite as successful as a musician.

But, really, there are a lot of these. These are just the examples that spring to mind.

Coordinated dance numbers or just visuals closely coordinated with the music are somewhat rare as it's very expensive to make, so most shows don't bother. Which suggests to me that you'd be most likely to find them looking to studios that tend to have all of the budget like KyoAni, MAPPA, later SHAFT or P. A. Works when they're not fooling around.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, are you looking for choreographed dance OP/EDs, character song OP/EDs (as in sung by members of the voice cast), or just really nicely animated OP/EDs? I think there are basically none of the first option, and too many to list of the last option, so maybe the second option is a good discussion topic?

Well, I'm mainly thinking of how the OP's visuals and the OP song go hand-in-hand. Like, the obvious moment is Tami's piano keystroke in the middle of the OP that syncs with the music, but everyone also moves perfectly to the beat of the song, and the fact that it's the dance from the show just makes the integration perfect. I see OPs where the music more or less matches the feel of the visuals, but I've seldom seen it put together that exactly.

[Terraoblivion]

I'd like to help more, but I have no sense of rhythm and I can't for the life of me tell what the beat is and whether or not something happens on it. I mean, most of the time I can guess based on what's going on, a dance number is likely to be choreographed for example, but I can't actually tell if it succeeds or not.

I do love Tami hitting the key, though. Even I can hear that it's perfectly timed to key off the music changing.

[Poison_Fish]

I liked some of the ideas in Mahouka, but it generally is not good.

[Alent]

I also liked Hanayamata. It was really a good mood brightener. I didn't really have a favorite, tho'. The whole cast had their moments. Hana was always amusing, and I can't tell you how amusing it was for me to watch Sally and Machi's plot unfold opposite opposite of the Death Gun unveil. :smalltongue:

About "Sea monk" - I thought that was the Shop owner's name literally translated? That's how he's saved in sally's phone.


Good to know. Seriously, the last 5-10 minutes of episode five was the school being attacked by terrorists, and the show still managed to make it boring. Mind-numbingly so. How do you even do that?:smallconfused:

There is a very nice plot to be had in the light novels, it had pacing problems and the author leaned too heavily on otaku tropes as crutches, but it was pretty interesting. The anime faithfully replicated all of the problems, somehow managed to throw out most of what made it good while actually being one of the most accurate adaptations I've seen, and then embellished the nauseating brocon and siscon show parts. :smallannoyed:

I can explain what was neat about it if you'd like, but it would get heavily into spoilers since you really don't get a chance to understand what the main character actually is until around book 8 or 9. (By pacing problems I mean "This was never meant to be anything less than a 500+ page full sized novel, and all the reveals are spaced accordingly")

[Winthur]

Good to know. Seriously, the last 5-10 minutes of episode five was the school being attacked by terrorists, and the show still managed to make it boring. Mind-numbingly so. How do you even do that?:smallconfused:

This reminds me of my general impression with Attack on Titan. Trying to build tension and a foreboding atmosphere through cuts to shocked faces and prolonged internal dialogue doesn't work that well.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

About "Sea monk" - I thought that was the Shop owner's name literally translated? That's how he's saved in sally's phone.

No, I think it's her nickname for him. When she first sees him, she internally thinks that he looks like a "sea monk". Which...I'm not sure what that's alluding to.

[Closet_Skeleton]

No, I think it's her nickname for him. When she first sees him, she internally thinks that he looks like a "sea monk". Which...I'm not sure what that's alluding to.

Umibozu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umib%C5%8Dzu)

Traditional folklore beastie.

[mallorean_thug]

Well, I'm mainly thinking of how the OP's visuals and the OP song go hand-in-hand. Like, the obvious moment is Tami's piano keystroke in the middle of the OP that syncs with the music, but everyone also moves perfectly to the beat of the song, and the fact that it's the dance from the show just makes the integration perfect. I see OPs where the music more or less matches the feel of the visuals, but I've seldom seen it put together that exactly.

Ok, so like Platinum Disco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ0ymYGQNa8). I'll try to think of more that match that and link them in this post.

[Sith_Happens]

I can explain what was neat about it if you'd like, but it would get heavily into spoilers since you really don't get a chance to understand what the main character actually is until around book 8 or 9. (By pacing problems I mean "This was never meant to be anything less than a 500+ page full sized novel, and all the reveals are spaced accordingly")

Probably already read most or all of what you're alluding to on TV Tropes, so fire away.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Umibozu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umib%C5%8Dzu)

Traditional folklore beastie.
Hee hee hee.

:smallbiggrin:

I can see it.

Ok, so like Platinum Disco (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ0ymYGQNa8). I'll try to think of more that match that and link them in this post.
Neat! It does make me curious--I'm sure practices for anime OPs vary from show to show, since some shows probably just get the rights to a J-Rock song and animate around that, but is there a "typical" process for making an OP?

[Alent]

Oh, interesting, I'd heard "umibouzu" but I thought I was hearing "Sea brat". Thanks for the mythology link.


Probably already read most or all of what you're alluding to on TV Tropes, so fire away.

Ah, they probably got the most of it in, they're pretty good about it. I just didn't want to do a colossal infodump with no warning. The basic Gist of Mahouka overall is that it's an exploration of "What it would mean to society to have magic". The overall "society level" issues of the story are fairly easy to overlook for the details of how the kids' every day life plays out.

A few things first:

An important central part of Mahouka is that the magic system conforms to consistent ideas. (These are explained in a short encyclopedia at the start of each book) The entire deal with flight in the second arc was an attempt to "Show" the limitations of how much a single magician can influence an object instead of just coming out and saying it outright. the story is very obsessed with being a Sci-fi with magic, and so it ends up being closer to a Fate style "concept beats concept" fantasy than the usual "magic does anything" fantasy. Somewhere early on Tatsuya points out that magic can reject physics, but you typically use physics to make magic easier.

The primary two forces that magic consists of are Psions and Pushions. One is "The idea of the spell" and the other is "the force to power it". Magicians who are able to handle complicated psion bodies and power them with sustained high volumes of pushions are favored by national programs. These are both genetic traits and a magician's life is completely decided by them, and they don't really get a say in the matter because as soon as it's discovered that they're magicians, they're state property.

So, on to the story:

The first arc is basically to reveal that the inequalities in the system are real, and that the perception of the situation makes them worse. Magicians are basically always going to serve as Military reserves, and this is the life style all of the kids have ahead of them. The less skilled ones are better off in many ways, because once they go above a certain performance level, they're effectively required to go on the front lines of every single war and conflict.

This arc also highlights one huge issue in that because Magicians are so important to a sovereign nation's survival, magicians are blessed with money. There isn't a second generation Magician that's lived a life of less than upper class living. This makes the non-magicians extremely jealous, and it's a viewpoint alluded to but not seen firsthand in Mahouka since the cast is exclusively magicians, except through the manipulated tools of Blanche. The fact Magicians are state property also causes non-magicians to see Magicians as a resource for their benefit. Again, another viewpoint alluded to but not witnessed.

The Terrorists in this arc are just a disguised moral imperative: Anyone who wants to deprive a country of magic wants to deprive it of it's sovereignty. Since national conflicts are battles of magicians, taking magicians away from the battlefield is the same as sabotaging its weapons.

The Second arc, the nine schools arc, showcases the potential of every magician for military purposes. There's very little that the kids do that isn't somehow applicable to the battlefield, and so the events give the government a good way to pick out who they're going to recruit as frontline combatants. This is the reason that the entire high military command come to watch kids shoot flying targets- most of those spells they're using are strictly wide are antipersonnel magic "toned down" for sports.

On the side, we have the Criminal underground of China running betting games on it. We also learn that by using mental class magic to destroy the brains of magicians, you can make very powerful and very effective weapons out of them. Tatsuya and Miyuki already know this for a reason.

The third arc, we see the kids try to demonstrate that Magicians are useful for peacetime things, but that gets interrupted as they're forced to prove why Magicians are important in battle. The Anime glossed over all the details of the military technology for the visuals, which are cool to watch but the gun-porn is actually important to the story. Defensive magic can turn an unarmored car into the ultimate fortress. Combat mecha are actually engine and actuatorless because they're Shikigami animated by magicians. The only reason the mundane infantry can stand on the battlefield at all is because they're needed to keep enemy magicians in check or serve as tiebreakers if two magicians are equal.

From here, the story turns dark when Tatsuya reveal to the world that his information magic can function as a nuclear bomb. This breaks things for magicians everywhere. That one review actually had the right of it when he said "I prefer to think of Tatsuya as the villain". He really is.

Sidestories happen around here, and they really only serve to reveal that Tatsuya was a non-magician baby born into a numbered magician household, who's own mother cast Mindrape on him as a toddler, to make him the perfect bodyguard for his infant sister who the family believed to be the single most valuable mage in their family history. Those living weapon magicians from the Chinese crime circuit are not very different than Tatsuya, the difference being Tatsuya had his own will left and manipulated to love his little sister and only his little sister, so that he would obey her orders without question and still have enough individuality to act independent of her. Because of the mindrape spell cast on him, most of his brain was turned into a crude approximation of a magician's magical center, leaving him able to use the most basic of magics, but cast them as if he was using a casting assistance device. So... Effectively, Tatsuya's an experimental AI magician in a human body manufactured to protect Miyuki.

After that, things get messy when the American Government, in an experiment to replicate Tatsuya's Material Burst spell, accidentally creates Living Spell Quantum Vampires. This arc has several things in it, from showing how the Americans regulate magic to showing that there's underground crime organizations in America, to showing how little anyone cares about anyone else's borders when military secrets are on the line.

The Quantum Vampires, which the series identifies as "parasites", jump the border into Japan thinking that America won't risk having Material Burst deployed against them. This ends up being a mistake as strange alliances happen and all but two of the Parasites are killed. One of the survivors is taken by Miyuki's family spies, the other by the Patriarch of the Japanese Military Magic Establishment himself.

The plot from here is going kind of weird, but the Japanese have figured out that they can put the parasites in Androids and use the android programming to control them, effectively letting them create artificial magician robots. Up to where I've read, they're about to field test these, and I'm not sure where the public opinion battle is going. Also unrevealed at present is what Miyuki's aunt wanted with the Parasites, since Miyuki's aunt is the spymaster of Japan, assume nothing good.

I've omitted things here and there for brevity (Family's sitting down to watch a show I want to watch) The overall, high level political game being played with magic is fascinating to me, I really like how despite the Kids' antics, there's a very coherent long term plot about the morality and ethics of magic going on. If the current arc finishes the way I think it will, it's going to lead into a moral debate of "Do we let magicians be people and use robots to kill people?" and all hell's going to break loose.

So yeah, probably nothing you didn't already see on TV tropes, but that was the part about the story I found interesting. It is buried in a bunch of teenage drama since the teenagers are there to serve as viewpoint characters to the overall crisis, and that's not everyone's cup of tea.

[BWR]

Well, I'm mainly thinking of how the OP's visuals and the OP song go hand-in-hand. Like, the obvious moment is Tami's piano keystroke in the middle of the OP that syncs with the music, but everyone also moves perfectly to the beat of the song, and the fact that it's the dance from the show just makes the integration perfect. I see OPs where the music more or less matches the feel of the visuals, but I've seldom seen it put together that exactly.

This might count.
Dokuro-chan s. 2 ed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6lM4Y_z_gE)

not perfect, but some elements.
Kaerimichi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2il4kkT3qg), also from the Monogatari series.
Shiawase no Iro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqvo0HpBzyk), Ah! My Goddess s. 2

I'm sure there are others.

[Rodin]

Umibozu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umib%C5%8Dzu)

Traditional folklore beastie.

And suddenly, the "Sea Monk" monster from Saga 3 makes sense to me.

That series had SO many references to Japanese folklore that I didn't get at the time, and I still probably only recognize about half of them...

It is fun every time that lightbulb goes on, though.

[Prime32]

And suddenly, the "Sea Monk" monster from Saga 3 makes sense to me.

That series had SO many references to Japanese folklore that I didn't get at the time, and I still probably only recognize about half of them...

It is fun every time that lightbulb goes on, though.That feeling when you look back at season 3 of Mighty Morphing Power Rangers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmbGp3ucKTs) and realise that it was originally about fighting a gashadokuro (http://powerrangers.wikia.com/wiki/Gashadokuro) and his army of classical youkai. One of the rangers having a frog-based zord, which even MMPR itself called lame, makes a lot more sense when you learn that NinjaBlack's name was Jiraiya...

[HMS Invincible]

Any thoughts on psycho pass 2? It feels like it's recycling the tirst season even though it's somewhat intentional. I don't like it as much. I expecter them to build on season 1, not a variant or retread. The violence against women is as gratuitous as ever.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Any thoughts on psycho pass 2? It feels like it's recycling the tirst season even though it's somewhat intentional. I don't like it as much. I expecter them to build on season 1, not a variant or retread. The violence against women is as gratuitous as ever.
From what I heard, they were rebroadcasting the original PsychoPass and making a few small changes to set up for an actual Season 2. I may try and find out about the changes, and then jump on the show when Season 2 hits, idk.

(Also, I've decided that Tokiwa Machi is going to grow up, move to Akihabara, and learn how to text with blazing Shining speed. Obviously. The visual resemblance is too uncanny. :smallwink: )

[mallorean_thug]

From what I heard, they were rebroadcasting the original PsychoPass and making a few small changes to set up for an actual Season 2. I may try and find out about the changes, and then jump on the show when Season 2 hits, idk.

Actual Season 2 is airing right now. The rebroadcast was during summer season. There weren't really any changes, just the touched up visuals from the BD release, and a couple short extra scenes.

I haven't seen last night's episode yet, but I'll post my thoughts up when I have. Based on the first two episodes, I thought it was going in a solid direction. Remember though, that this season only gets 11 episodes, and then there's going to be a movie that Gen and Production IG are actually working on. So I would honestly expect any resolution to come in the movie, sadly . . .

[Terraoblivion]

(Also, I've decided that Tokiwa Machi is going to grow up, move to Akihabara, and learn how to text with blazing Shining speed. Obviously. The visual resemblance is too uncanny. :smallwink: )

She's too sane for that. :smalltongue:

[HamHam]

and then embellished the nauseating brocon and siscon show parts. :smallannoyed:

That was literally the only genuinely interesting part though. Mainly because everyone else actually reacted to it.

But seriously that show was super boring and I dropped it.

----------------

Nothing in the new season has really caught my interest, I have to say. Some continuing shows are great (Log Horizon and Akame Ga Kill) but none of the new stuff has been all that memorable except for CROSS ANGE Rondo of Angel and Dragon which was not in a good way. Although I could tell that from the synopsis.

[VariSami]

Nothing in the new season has really caught my interest, I have to say. Some continuing shows are great (Log Horizon and Akame Ga Kill) but none of the new stuff has been all that memorable except for CROSS ANGE Rondo of Angel and Dragon which was not in a good way. Although I could tell that from the synopsis.

I do not know whether it will be your cup of tea or not but I find Garo to be the best series this season (at least thus far). It tackles some damn sensitive topics (well, mostly shows instead of resolving) and the fact that the main characters cannot fight against mundane people actually makes the social dynamics very interesting. It seems that more often than not, they are faced with a danger in the form of a bigoted or superstitious mob instead of a demon because they can actually fight the latter but not the former.

[Winthur]

The violence against women is as gratuitous as ever.

I don't know about that, but the "Miss Akane Tsunemori is being unprofessional again wah wah wahhhh" woman deserves a slap already. Every single piece of her screentime is her being against absolutely everything going on. Even when setting up action.

Seriously, her entire role seems to have been a replacement for Inspector Ginoza, except Ginoza was established as the position of authority - a flawed one, being quite judgmental and also paranoid over his Huehuehue, but still fair, and an alright foil to Akane. Ginoza's used to his way but we're clearly supposed to like the "throw the book at them", non-lethal approach.

Now all that happens is that Akane does the Lawful Good thing which is immediately met with a derisive remark slashing through that girl's pout. We already know Akane's way is always right, the viewer is deliberately set up to think this since season 1 - why does the newbie girl have to contest that, and not even in a meaningful way? Unless Akane gets moved into some supersadistic situation which would have been resolved easily had it not been for her, you know, acting like our 21st century standard of a cop, I don't have a clue what's the newbie's purpose as a character. Her lines could be easily be just "You're in my way, sir", "You're standing in my spot", "That's my spot you're at" ad infinitum. And name changed to Reynolds.

Dunno, I try to be sympathetic and understanding - I believe Rossiu did nothing wrong and that Kamille is a man's name, for instance - but man, I'm annoyed with that girl already.


It's literally the only thing I don't like so far. I'm all up for season 2, even if it's just more of the same since it would be still entertaining with just the base premise.

[Prime32]

So Unlimited Blade Works ep3 added quite a bit that wasn't in the VN
Most notably Saber reacting to the name Einzbern, Illya using a version of Irisviel's bird familiars, and Saber managing to land a kill on Berserker by briefly unsheathing Excalibur. Which is kind of weird since Excalibur has never been used that quickly or casually anywhere else, and it takes away the reason for Illya's "I'm not interested in Saber but I am in Archer" line.

[deuterio12]

So Unlimited Blade Works ep3 added quite a bit that wasn't in the VN
Most notably Saber reacting to the name Einzbern, Illya using a version of Irisviel's bird familiars, and Saber managing to land a kill on Berserker by briefly unsheathing Excalibur. Which is kind of weird since Excalibur has never been used that quickly or casually anywhere else, and it takes away the reason for Illya's "I'm not interested in Saber but I am in Archer" line.

It's not only adding, it's changing

Invisible Air can now totally wound Berseker, when before direct blows wouldn't even scratch him.

Also Berseker now knows Kung-fu, where before he was supposed to be all raw-power, so fast and strong he didn't need any fancy styles. Shirou said something along the lines of "Techniques are something humans created to overcome their weaknesses. This monster has no weaknesess and thus has no need for such tricks"

But I guess going for the original above would mean a more boring fight.:smalltongue:

And Einzinbern vs Rin seemed like a Touhou duel, using bombs for temporary invulnerability, basic danmaku spam, enemy spell slaves change after taking enough damage and everything.:smallbiggrin:

[Prime32]

It's not only adding, it's changing

Invisible Air can now totally wound Berseker, when before direct blows wouldn't even scratch him.

Also Berseker now knows Kung-fu, where before he was supposed to be all raw-power, so fast and strong he didn't need any fancy styles. Shirou said something along the lines of "Techniques are something humans created to overcome their weaknesses. This monster has no weaknesess and thus has no need for such tricks"

But I guess going for the original above would mean a more boring fight.:smalltongue:

And Einzinbern vs Rin seemed like a Touhou duel, using bombs for temporary invulnerability, basic danmaku spam, enemy spell slaves change after taking enough damage and everything.:smallbiggrin:
Well that and
In the VN Berserker ignores Archer's arrow because it seems just like his other attacks so far, then at the last second senses danger and tries to block it. After the explosion Illya is shocked that someone would have an attack that strong, and decides to retreat.

In the anime the arrow looks extremely different from the others, Berserker ignores it without taking damage, then Illya says Archer is special for seemingly no reason.

Actually, why don't I just link the scene from the VN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1_oj136JsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHHWDUHvtA
The second vid ends with an OP for the route that contains minor spoilers for people who've only watched F/Z.

[Terraoblivion]

On the other hand, they made the scene actually work.

Rin and Ilya did stuff, Shirou's role came off as something somebody would actually do instead of totally hamfisted writing of the one character trait he's supposed to have and, honestly, I'm not sure I see the problem with Ilya's proclamation. Didn't you see what the arrow looked like and why that might interest her? Even if it didn't have much of an effect right then and there.

[Prime32]

On the other hand, they made the scene actually work.

Rin and Ilya did stuff, Shirou's role came off as something somebody would actually do instead of totally hamfisted writing of the one character trait he's supposed to have and, honestly, I'm not sure I see the problem with Ilya's proclamation. Didn't you see what the arrow looked like and why that might interest her? Even if it didn't have much of an effect right then and there.I had no problems with the Rin vs. Illya scene - heck, I thought it was pretty cool. I was just surprised to see it.

Shirou's behaviour here isn't any different from how he acted in the VN; in fact in the VN you have the option of just calling out to Saber instead of running in and dragging her away.

The problem is that Archer's display of power in this scene left a big impact on Shirou and is why he started taking notice of him, but here he's been overshadowed by Saber. Berserker no longer having his invulnerable skin also makes him less threatening, which in turn reduces the impact of his later scenes.
I mean yes the arrow was flashy, but since Saber was way more effective Illya's line just feels like awkward Archer shilling.

[Terraoblivion]

I mean yes the arrow was flashy, but since Saber was way more effective Illya's line just feels like awkward Archer shilling.

The arrow looked like Excalibur and if there's one master likely to know what Excalibur is supposed to look like it's Ilya. She's also likely to have been told that King Arthur is a woman, given who Kiritsugu was working for. So she knows that there's something up when somebody else uses an Excalibur arrow.

[Prime32]

The arrow looked like Excalibur and if there's one master likely to know what Excalibur is supposed to look like it's Ilya. She's also likely to have been told that King Arthur is a woman, given who Kiritsugu was working for. So she knows that there's something up when somebody else uses an Excalibur arrow.
Bear in mind that Saber's connection to the Einzberns comes entirely from Fate/Zero - in the original Saber doesn't even recognise the name. There is never any indication that Illya knows who Saber is. Also, if it was an Excalibur arrow you'd think Saber would be the first to notice.
The arrow doesn't actually have any direct connection to Excalibur - its resemblance is due to their myths being related (which we've already seen cases of), and is never commented on. Archer calls its name the next time he uses it.

Plus even if she thought Archer's arrow was interesting, it seems odd to have no interest in Saber after she revealed she was capable of killing the Servant that was supposed to be invincible.

[HMS Invincible]

Bear in mind that Saber's connection to the Einzberns comes entirely from Fate/Zero - in the original Saber doesn't even recognise the name. There is never any indication that Illya knows who Saber is. Also, if it was an Excalibur arrow you'd think Saber would be the first to notice.
The arrow doesn't actually have any direct connection to Excalibur - its resemblance is due to their myths being related (which we've already seen cases of), and is never commented on. Archer calls its name the next time he uses it.

Plus even if she thought Archer's arrow was interesting, it seems odd to have no interest in Saber after she revealed she was capable of killing the Servant that was supposed to be invincible.

I thought the berserker's Noble Phantasm made him immune to the thing that kills him, so you need x different ways to kill him equal to his stock of lives. That's why Gilgamesh and Archer are so dangerous to Berserker. They have too many weapons to use against him. Someone like Lancer or Rider would be really weak against berserker since Rider can only stab or use her NP. Lancer has like 3-4 ways since he also has secret rune magic that he never uses cuz fighting is more fun.

[Pronounceable]

I like UBW anime. It's shiny and cool. And the new scene is almost the exact thing I'd have written in my giant FSN fanfiction if I was the type who'd write giant FSN fanfiction. They must be stealing my thoughts with some secret new Japanese invention!

Well I'd have probably written a much crappier magic battle because I'm not Nasu assisted. But original scene was seriously lacking with all masters just standing around twiddling thumbs, so this is an immense improvement. Not to mention the increased sense of servants' power and believability in the setting by moving the battle into not the middle of the city. Original scenes were quite unbelievable with bigass servant battles happening right in the main streets but nobody noticing.
However it would've been better if Shirou wasn't an idiot and ran into the incoming explosion. And especially the following little bit seemed like a Saber flag and is triggering my spider senses. I'm gonna rage so ****ing hard if they go for UBW silly ending. I'm almost sure it's just there to mislead people though, so I'm not too worried.

Also cappoeira Berserker was not a thing I was expecting. Still cool though.
Another thing I wasn't expecting was Rin mashing Shirou's face into a tree in a sudden explosion of tsundere. While it's not an unpleasant thing by itself (in fact it's awesome), adding in the dumb butt wiggle from last episode makes me suspect they're mucking about with Rin for extra otaku pandering.

The lesson UBW is teaching me is that getting pumped about good things is bad. You start looking for potential faults and problems, creating needless worry for yourself.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Well that and
In the VN Berserker ignores Archer's arrow because it seems just like his other attacks so far, then at the last second senses danger and tries to block it. After the explosion Illya is shocked that someone would have an attack that strong, and decides to retreat.

In the anime the arrow looks extremely different from the others, Berserker ignores it without taking damage, then Illya says Archer is special for seemingly no reason.

Actually, why don't I just link the scene from the VN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1_oj136JsM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHHWDUHvtA
The second vid ends with an OP for the route that contains minor spoilers for people who've only watched F/Z.

Umm actually the final battle scene matches up very well to me on further review, within valid artistic license and medium switching... that last attack was always different in both.

Up to that point not so much. One thing nobody has noted yet

Saber right now can't use Excalibur without "riding the mana transfer dragon" afterward to fill back up and is almost completely incapacitated in the interim. I personally don't buy that Excali-pistol there can run at A rank and not take more prana then Saber can spend and not show clear problems from using it.

Also seriously just crap all over the Fate route UBW anime, because if Saber had a safe way to fire Excalibur she would have done it in that route. Nevermind it undermines say the Assassin fight at the end where the whole problem was she couldn't just wipe him out at range because even with RIN as a Master, Saber can't spam her sword.

Finally a pew pew laser just so doesn't fit the Sword of Promised Victory

[kamikasei]

On the other hand, they made the scene actually work.
I was struck, around the point where Archer sniped Berserker for (I think) the second time, that they'd just had an entire episode talking about the fact that it's sensible to target the Masters rather than the Servants, but then didn't attempt to use their super-long-range magical artillery to take out the tiny girl instead of the giant invulnerable monster. So the Rin/Ilya fight was a welcome addition, for me.

I was less annoyed by Saber vs Berserker than it seems others were. For one thing, I took her final attack to be a use of the air sheath, not an actual firing of Excalibur (for one thing, she doesn't say it). For another, Berserker doesn't need to be both invulnerable and auto-rezzing, that's just dumb.

And especially the following little bit seemed like a Saber flag and is triggering my spider senses. I'm gonna rage so ****ing hard if they go for UBW silly ending. I'm almost sure it's just there to mislead people though, so I'm not too worried.
Come on, everyone knows Rin/Saber is the true pairing of UBW and therefore the "silly" ending is the real one.

[Prime32]

I was struck, around the point where Archer sniped Berserker for (I think) the second time, that they'd just had an entire episode talking about the fact that it's sensible to target the Masters rather than the Servants, but then didn't attempt to use their super-long-range magical artillery to take out the tiny girl instead of the giant invulnerable monster. So the Rin/Ilya fight was a welcome addition, for me.Well there's another reason...

"What is that, Archer...!?"
"We can talk later. Run, kid. You took Ilya's hand, so protect her until the very end."

Archer slows down a bit and goes behind us.
...At that instant.
Right before he leaves, he gives Illya a look heavy with regret.
There's a handful of scenes like this throughout the VN which imply that Archer cares deeply for Ilya and doesn't want her to get hurt; even the DEEN anime left one in. It's not out of character for Archer to lie about being able to see her.



I was less annoyed by Saber vs Berserker than it seems others were. For one thing, I took her final attack to be a use of the air sheath, not an actual firing of Excalibur (for one thing, she doesn't say it). For another, Berserker doesn't need to be both invulnerable and auto-rezzing, that's just dumb.It looked at first like she was releasing her sheath so she could stab him with Excalibur, but going back yeah it looks like a close-range variant of her wind blast technique... which isn't supposed to be that powerful.

Berserker is invulnerable to everything except top-class weapons - "A-rank" ones. In the VN Rin identifies Archer's arrow as an "A-rank attack" - it's implied that he succeeded in killing Berserker, but Rin didn't know about his resurrection power and couldn't see him using it through all the smoke, so she just assumed he didn't take damage.
In the anime it's still called A-rank but it clearly doesn't kill him, establishing that you need an attack stronger than A-rank to hurt Berserker... except that Saber was drawing blood from him with just her wind-sheath earlier, which Rin can tell is not A-rank, and thus she has no reason to say "even A-rank attacks don't work".

[HMS Invincible]

Well there's another reason...

There's a handful of scenes like this throughout the VN which imply that Archer cares deeply for Ilya and doesn't want her to get hurt; even the DEEN anime left one in. It's not out of character for Archer to lie about being able to see her.


It looked at first like she was releasing her sheath so she could stab him with Excalibur, but going back yeah it looks like a close-range variant of her wind blast technique... which isn't supposed to be that powerful.

Berserker is invulnerable to everything except top-class weapons - "A-rank" ones. In the VN Rin identifies Archer's arrow as an "A-rank attack" - it's implied that he succeeded in killing Berserker, but Rin didn't know about his resurrection power and couldn't see him using it through all the smoke, so she just assumed he didn't take damage.
In the anime it's still called A-rank but it clearly doesn't kill him, establishing that you need an attack stronger than A-rank to hurt Berserker... except that Saber was drawing blood from him with just her wind-sheath earlier, which Rin can tell is not A-rank, and thus she has no reason to say "even A-rank attacks don't work".


It says here that God hand protects against B-rank and lower attacks. Definitely odd that a C-rank attack (wind sheath shotgun) would hurt him. Maybe because it's was activated inside him?
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Heracles#

[Soras Teva Gee]

It looked at first like she was releasing her sheath so she could stab him with Excalibur, but going back yeah it looks like a close-range variant of her wind blast technique... which isn't supposed to be that powerful.

Berserker is invulnerable to everything except top-class weapons - "A-rank" ones. In the VN Rin identifies Archer's arrow as an "A-rank attack" - it's implied that he succeeded in killing Berserker, but Rin didn't know about his resurrection power and couldn't see him using it through all the smoke, so she just assumed he didn't take damage.
In the anime it's still called A-rank but it clearly doesn't kill him, establishing that you need an attack stronger than A-rank to hurt Berserker... except that Saber was drawing blood from him with just her wind-sheath earlier, which Rin can tell is not A-rank, and thus she has no reason to say "even A-rank attacks don't work".


Nope it happened the same in both anime and VN we just weren't treated to a filler demonstration this time. AKA done properly

Its the still exact same implication that Berserker lost a life to Archer's arrow to those of us that know what's going on. It could tell us more explicitly yes but it is not actually in conflict with the VN here.

He just presumably additionally lost one to Saber a little earlier. Which is an anime addition that she shouldn't be capable of exactly without coming out much worse, but mighty Herakles loose all his other lives to Gil in this route so its at least limiting the damage. I can only speculate that this addition is to attempt to explain how Berserker works which so help me I'm not sure if UBW does in the VN at any point.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, this weekend: all teh animes. A friend of mine (who's seen 200-some shows in the past eight years) came up for a visit, and we did a lot of marathoning.

First, we marathoned Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit in two chunks: the first 20 episodes, then the last 6 episodes on the following day. Glorious. He was able to point out a few subtle things I might've otherwise missed (like the song in the first episode), and the entire thing was a fantastic treat. Also, the climactic sequence was filled with a massive "OH #!%!$!" moment when things came to a head.

Also, I'm 95% certain that Balsa was the inspiration for Kyoko's character design (aka Kyoko from Madoka Magica). Maybe just coincidence, but it seemed rather similar to me.

Balsa (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ac/GuardianoftheSacredSpiritDVD.jpg)

Kyoko (http://mcpictures.wikispaces.com/file/view/KyokoMc.jpg/289596413/KyokoMc.jpg)

We also wound up watching the first 10 episodes of Magi, which was pretty fun. I dig that it's a shounen set in the Arabian Nights. The atypical setting makes it enjoyable for me.

And then Unlimited Bladeworks. Fun episode. Also, hello again, Blondie. It's been a while. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Finally, I just finished HaNaYaMaTa. :smallsmile: No time to post longer thoughts now, but the ending was totally what I expected...and I wouldn't change it one bit. Maybe I just have a soft spot. :smallwink:

ADDENDUM: Speaking of slice-of-life, I wonder if there's any slice-of-life shows about a roleplaying group.

[Illogictree]

I decided a few weeks ago to start watching Legend of the Galactic Heroes. I've been watching it in two-episode chunks so that I don't get confused about where I left off. So far I've been enjoying it, and I appreciate both the slow pace so I can keep track of what's going on, and the fact that they helpfully label the secondary characters whenever they become relevant to the story rather than leave the viewer to try to remember who everyone is.

Anyway, we'll see how long I stick with it; I've tried watching long-running series in the past - including Robotech and Captain Harlock - but I've given up on them partway through.

[Soras Teva Gee]

We also wound up watching the first 10 episodes of Magi, which was pretty fun. I dig that it's a shounen set in the Arabian Nights. The atypical setting makes it enjoyable for me.

Great series, needs more attention, read the manga too.

[Duck999]

What is up with eyes in anime? Even in cases where it isn't anything special, people will get patterns in their eyes.
Akame ga Kill: at least one person's eyes have strange patterns
No Game No Life: They also have magic eyes
Code Geass: Well... yeah

[Soras Teva Gee]

What is up with eyes in anime? Even in cases where it isn't anything special, people will get patterns in their eyes.
Akame ga Kill: at least one person's eyes have strange patterns
No Game No Life: They also have magic eyes
Code Geass: Well... yeah

Like just about every visual oddity in anime I would ascribe it to a combination of the following:

1) Certain theatrical and cultural traditions that from a Western perspective are rather bombastic and colorful.
2) Being visually interesting while working from an inherently simple art style likewise requires you go big and obvious.
3) A couple of decades of striving to remain interesting in light of points 1 and 2 encouraging one-up-manship to remain distinctive.

[Terraoblivion]

EDIT: Finally, I just finished HaNaYaMaTa. :smallsmile: No time to post longer thoughts now, but the ending was totally what I expected...and I wouldn't change it one bit. Maybe I just have a soft spot. :smallwink:

Eh, sometimes the expected ending is also the right one. Execution is what matters, not being surprising or original. And Hanayamata had pretty amazing execution in every way.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Eh, sometimes the expected ending is also the right one. Execution is what matters, not being surprising or original. And Hanayamata had pretty amazing execution in every way.
Concurred. (Which is a boring answer, I suppose, but yeah.) Definitely the right one.

[Duck999]

Argh! Dang Anime! You aren't supposed to have giant reveals about characters identity in the 3rd or 4th to last episode! And if you do, it should be dramatic! Not, I know who you are, ____. Yeah, that's how I react when anime gets me mad. Really though, there are just some kinds of reveals you don't have in the end. It's like saying that Lelouch is the prince of Brittania in the 46th episode.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hey, don't blame the show if it wasn't blindingly obvious that Lelouch was Kira. They were, like, foreshadowing that the entire time.

:smalltongue:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hey, don't blame the show if it wasn't blindingly obvious that Lelouch was . They were, like, foreshadowing that the entire time.

:smalltongue:

I thought Suzaku was Kira. He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

i thought suzaku was kira. He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...
or were they both kira????

[Winthur]

He's got all the same character traits - angst, plot armor, even more plot armor...

That sounds more like Kira Yamato.

[Sith_Happens]

A few things first:

An important central part of Mahouka is that the magic system conforms to consistent ideas. (These are explained in a short encyclopedia at the start of each book) The entire deal with flight in the second arc was an attempt to "Show" the limitations of how much a single magician can influence an object instead of just coming out and saying it outright. the story is very obsessed with being a Sci-fi with magic, and so it ends up being closer to a Fate style "concept beats concept" fantasy than the usual "magic does anything" fantasy. Somewhere early on Tatsuya points out that magic can reject physics, but you typically use physics to make magic easier.

The primary two forces that magic consists of are Psions and Pushions. One is "The idea of the spell" and the other is "the force to power it". Magicians who are able to handle complicated psion bodies and power them with sustained high volumes of pushions are favored by national programs. These are both genetic traits and a magician's life is completely decided by them, and they don't really get a say in the matter because as soon as it's discovered that they're magicians, they're state property.

So, on to the story:

The first arc is basically to reveal that the inequalities in the system are real, and that the perception of the situation makes them worse. Magicians are basically always going to serve as Military reserves, and this is the life style all of the kids have ahead of them. The less skilled ones are better off in many ways, because once they go above a certain performance level, they're effectively required to go on the front lines of every single war and conflict.

This arc also highlights one huge issue in that because Magicians are so important to a sovereign nation's survival, magicians are blessed with money. There isn't a second generation Magician that's lived a life of less than upper class living. This makes the non-magicians extremely jealous, and it's a viewpoint alluded to but not seen firsthand in Mahouka since the cast is exclusively magicians, except through the manipulated tools of Blanche. The fact Magicians are state property also causes non-magicians to see Magicians as a resource for their benefit. Again, another viewpoint alluded to but not witnessed.

The Terrorists in this arc are just a disguised moral imperative: Anyone who wants to deprive a country of magic wants to deprive it of it's sovereignty. Since national conflicts are battles of magicians, taking magicians away from the battlefield is the same as sabotaging its weapons.

The Second arc, the nine schools arc, showcases the potential of every magician for military purposes. There's very little that the kids do that isn't somehow applicable to the battlefield, and so the events give the government a good way to pick out who they're going to recruit as frontline combatants. This is the reason that the entire high military command come to watch kids shoot flying targets- most of those spells they're using are strictly wide are antipersonnel magic "toned down" for sports.

On the side, we have the Criminal underground of China running betting games on it. We also learn that by using mental class magic to destroy the brains of magicians, you can make very powerful and very effective weapons out of them. Tatsuya and Miyuki already know this for a reason.

The third arc, we see the kids try to demonstrate that Magicians are useful for peacetime things, but that gets interrupted as they're forced to prove why Magicians are important in battle. The Anime glossed over all the details of the military technology for the visuals, which are cool to watch but the gun-porn is actually important to the story. Defensive magic can turn an unarmored car into the ultimate fortress. Combat mecha are actually engine and actuatorless because they're Shikigami animated by magicians. The only reason the mundane infantry can stand on the battlefield at all is because they're needed to keep enemy magicians in check or serve as tiebreakers if two magicians are equal.

From here, the story turns dark when Tatsuya reveal to the world that his information magic can function as a nuclear bomb. This breaks things for magicians everywhere. That one review actually had the right of it when he said "I prefer to think of Tatsuya as the villain". He really is.

Sidestories happen around here, and they really only serve to reveal that Tatsuya was a non-magician baby born into a numbered magician household, who's own mother cast Mindrape on him as a toddler, to make him the perfect bodyguard for his infant sister who the family believed to be the single most valuable mage in their family history. Those living weapon magicians from the Chinese crime circuit are not very different than Tatsuya, the difference being Tatsuya had his own will left and manipulated to love his little sister and only his little sister, so that he would obey her orders without question and still have enough individuality to act independent of her. Because of the mindrape spell cast on him, most of his brain was turned into a crude approximation of a magician's magical center, leaving him able to use the most basic of magics, but cast them as if he was using a casting assistance device. So... Effectively, Tatsuya's an experimental AI magician in a human body manufactured to protect Miyuki.

After that, things get messy when the American Government, in an experiment to replicate Tatsuya's Material Burst spell, accidentally creates Living Spell Quantum Vampires. This arc has several things in it, from showing how the Americans regulate magic to showing that there's underground crime organizations in America, to showing how little anyone cares about anyone else's borders when military secrets are on the line.

The Quantum Vampires, which the series identifies as "parasites", jump the border into Japan thinking that America won't risk having Material Burst deployed against them. This ends up being a mistake as strange alliances happen and all but two of the Parasites are killed. One of the survivors is taken by Miyuki's family spies, the other by the Patriarch of the Japanese Military Magic Establishment himself.

The plot from here is going kind of weird, but the Japanese have figured out that they can put the parasites in Androids and use the android programming to control them, effectively letting them create artificial magician robots. Up to where I've read, they're about to field test these, and I'm not sure where the public opinion battle is going. Also unrevealed at present is what Miyuki's aunt wanted with the Parasites, since Miyuki's aunt is the spymaster of Japan, assume nothing good.

I've omitted things here and there for brevity (Family's sitting down to watch a show I want to watch) The overall, high level political game being played with magic is fascinating to me, I really like how despite the Kids' antics, there's a very coherent long term plot about the morality and ethics of magic going on. If the current arc finishes the way I think it will, it's going to lead into a moral debate of "Do we let magicians be people and use robots to kill people?" and all hell's going to break loose.

That definitely sounds like it would make a great Silmarillion/World War Z style book. As a personal-level story with a protagonist, though? I'm sure plenty of people could still make a good book out of that, but Tsutomu Sato doesn't seem to be one of them.

[DoctorFaust]

Hey, sorry, but I have a quick question. I marathoned Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica a few days ago, and I was wondering if any of you know of magical girl shows that are as good as it is. Preferably with less soul-crushing sadness?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm not familiar with other mahou shoujo shows, but I did want to compliment you on your fantastically main character-ish avatar. :smallbiggrin:

[Sallera]

Nanoha is essentially what happens when a magical girl show is written as though it were a mecha anime. The first season is alright; the second (A's) is much better. It's heavy on the friendship through superior firepower themes, and not depressing in the least.

Card Captor Sakura is softer and more relationship focused, and also much longer. It's a more traditional show, but also highly recommended.

[mallorean_thug]

I would personally highly recommend Card Captor Sakura and Princess Tutu.

Other than those, I would expect the thread to also recommend a mix of Nanoha, Heartcatch Precure, and Sailor Moon.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The problem with recommending Magical Girl shows to people who've just watched Madoka is that most of the genre has a lot of filler.

If you're going to limit yourself to 'as good' then your only option may be Princess Tutu, which I actually like more.

I won't go into why I don't like Nanoha much again here, but it isn't as good as Madoka Magica by any stretch. What it is on the otherhand, is the same length (per season for the first two seasons, in total its 4x the length) and only the first season has any filler and then not much (an onsen episode, monster of the week episodes stop about half way through).

If you want a good representative kid's show I'd recommend Pretty Cure Splash Star, but that's mainly because I don't like Card Captor Sakura much. Probably not as good as Madoka, but it does have several good things Madoka lacks, like little girls punching jerks in the face. Has some of the best villains in a children's anime, but you have to actually enjoy that level of stupidity to get much out of it. Pity the main heroine has one of the worst super hero costumes in an anime. Heatcatch Pretty Cure has a better plot but worse villains and music and Futari Wa Pretty Cure has more hand to hand combat but more annoying pets.

If you just want Yuki Kajiura music and dark but not too dark I'd recommend Mai Hime, despite it not being her best soundtrack and not being a typical magical girl series (high school characters, lots of fanservice). It's definitely not as good as Madoka by far, it does some things very well but tends to undermine that with the other stuff.

[Alent]

That definitely sounds like it would make a great Silmarillion/World War Z style book. As a personal-level story with a protagonist, though? I'm sure plenty of people could still make a good book out of that, but Tsutomu Sato doesn't seem to be one of them.

Yeah, it works in places, and doesn't in others. In my head I group it with other stories where the idea has more potential than the author's skill to execute, and that's okay since it is hobby/amateur work. It has been getting better in terms of quality the farther along the story moves, but there's plenty of issues from the author's nationalism and politics seeping into the writing, to bad otaku trope use.

With works like this I try to pick out the good things and just push the rest aside, and the moral, ethical, and economic exploration of what is basically just a teleportation circle away from being a tippyverse has been worth the read to my mind. An arguably less realistic version of the same thing was Magi's Magnostadt/Kingdom of Magic arc. (Although less realistic, it was executed leagues better since the Magi mangaka is just that. damn. good.)

But yeah, the show isn't for everyone. Especially with how it managed to be slower than Mouretsu Space Pirates. (Which I also liked.)

[DoctorFaust]

I'm not familiar with other mahou shoujo shows, but I did want to compliment you on your fantastically main character-ish avatar. :smallbiggrin:

Danke danke. The art style in yours looks familiar. Is it from The Count of Monte Cristo?


I would personally highly recommend Card Captor Sakura and Princess Tutu.

Other than those, I would expect the thread to also recommend a mix of Nanoha, Heartcatch Precure, and Sailor Moon.

Based on the recommendations, it seems I should probably watch Nanoha and Princess Tutu. Thanks!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Danke danke. The art style in yours looks familiar. Is it from The Count of Monte Cristo?

The Count himself. :smallbiggrin:

[Terraoblivion]

Not a lot of shows as good as Madoka in general, much less in any specific genre. Most of the good magical girl shows have been mentioned already, so there's no need for me to mention those, but I'll toss in a few more.

Heartcatch Precure. Both Mallorean Thug and Closet Skeleton mentioned it, but neither got into what it is. It's a magical girl show actually aimed at little girls, but a really good one at that and one that's not afraid to let children look at heavy issues like dead, grief, depression or gender roles and while it does do it in a child appropriate manner, it's not patronizing nor does it ignore the severity of them. It also has pretty direct, physical action compared to the stereotype of the genre with Cure Moonlight especially displaying rather strong kung-fu, including one of the best choreographed beatdowns in anime. It's a good show with strong characterization of the leads and some bits of cool action and the occasional example of how to maturely handle heavy topics around children. So as long as you're fine with it being a kid's show and that it tends towards monster of the week in the first half, I can recommend it.

Revolutionary Girl Utena. Stretching the definition a bit, but it's generally listed as one and I can see why. It has several classic elements, such as stock footage transformation sequences and being a coming of age story for girls, as well as a lot of visual ties to Sailor Moon thanks to Ikuhara having directed both. It's weird, it's artsy and the sheer complexity and elaborate symbology takes a lot of work to sort out. However, it has an incredible sense of style in both music and visuals, so even though it's rather dated and didn't have a very high budget to begin with it looks great. It also keeps all its assorted symbols, metaphors and motifs straight to a degree that I've never seen anything this artsy doing. It even manages to make stock footage an integral, symbolic element in a way that it wouldn't be if it didn't do the full stock sequence.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Based on the recommendations, it seems I should probably watch Nanoha and Princess Tutu. Thanks!

Probably. Despite not liking Nanoha much its not so terrible that I'd warn you off it to spare you the pain. I'd recommend that you watch it to make your own decision.


It also has pretty direct, physical action compared to the stereotype of the genre with Cure Moonlight especially displaying rather strong kung-fu, including one of the best choreographed beatdowns in anime. It's a good show with strong characterization of the leads

Its pretty low on martial arts compared to Futari Wa Pretty Cure. The ending battle is really good but that's true of most series.

I didn't like the characterisation as much as in the other series, but I can't really say why at this point. On the other hand you did specify the leads while the main problem I had was the weak villain characterisation, made even worse by how few of them there are. If you're going to have stupid one note villains they should at least be amusing and while not all the villains in Splash Star and Futari Wa are that great at least they only last 7 episodes before being ditched for someone who might be more fun, while in Heartcatch they just alternate the same three bores until past episode 40 (minor structural spoiler). I didn't much like how Futari Wa Pretty Cure had a girl in the Lacross club and a girl in the science club, Pretty Cure Splash Star has a art club girl and a softball girl while Heartcatch Pretty Cure has two fashion club girls.

and the sporty girl immediately swaps from Karate to fashion the moment she becomes a super heroine. In theory Tsubome is a gardening club member and Eirika is the fashion one, but the way Eirika drags everyone into her club makes them all kind of samey while the girls in the first series are happy to not cross over all their social circles.

This isn't really a criticism, since I don't think that keeping the tomboy and girly girl thing for the entire franchise would have been a good idea, I just prefer the other set up.

I didn't like the music that much either. I didn't use to skip the opening theme of the older series and the background just isn't that impressive or memorable.


So as long as you're fine with it being a kid's show and that it tends towards monster of the week in the first half, I can recommend it.

Its monster of the week almost all the way through, I don't count a 4 episode end of series arc as an entire half. Its a tiny bit more monster of the week than the other two Pretty Cure series I've watched due to only having 3 general characters and stuffing all the boss fights in at the end (same minor structural spoiler).

[HamHam]

I'm not sure I'd really claim Nanoha is better than Madoka on a technical or artistic level, but I will say I like it a lot more. Or at least I am way more fascinated by it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Does somebody need a Pretty Cure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HumweRRMTeI)?

[HamHam]

Yona of the Dawn is a pretty meh show, but the opening is freaking amazing.

[Aotrs Commander]

So I just watched Bennet the Sage review MD Geist, and I feel I had to just go and comment SOMEWHERE...

I know anime of the period sometimes had some despicable protagonists, but wow. I think Geist takes the cake. Not content with initiating literally genocide, the guy goes out and kills probably the only other person out there that actually might be able to stop the massecre and have a chance at a normal life (and frankly, was 100% in the right trying to kill him - freaking GENOCIDE, man), letting people be slaughtered in the meantime... all because he just wants an enemy to fight? And he doesn't even seem to enjoy it! (You sort of half get the impression Geist went after the guy more because he blew up some of the robot and Geist didn't want anyone kill-stealing rather than any other reason.) And this is sort of shown as a good thing?

Wow.

Just... wow.

I don't even know where to begin.

I would say I'd love to see what happens when all the robots and all the people are dead and what Geist would do for an encore, but I suspect he'd just wander around expressionlessly until some othe people arrived and repeat the thing on other worlds.

[kamikasei]

I would say I'd love to see what happens when all the robots and all the people are dead and what Geist would do for an encore, but I suspect he'd just wander around expressionlessly until some othe people arrived and repeat the thing on other worlds.
Well, you have to understand that he can't, in fact, actually stop. He is, after all, just a soldier.

It's tragic, really.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, you have to understand that he can't, in fact, actually stop. He is, after all, just a soldier.

It's tragic, really.

Yeah... not really, or rather he isn't. He's caused one, but he isn't one himself. Not only did he appear to not even try to stop (or even to try to do anything that might alleviate the urge, e.g. engaging with other human beings), he actually went out and unleashed a thing that killed (thousands? Millions?) He deserves exactly as much sympathy as the robots he unleashed, beause THEY at least, don't have the choice, being sentient/sapient beings. He did have a choice, cealry, though he decided it was too hard... Or, of course, if he really is physicially unable to stop because programming (since the OTHER chap seemed to have done so, it does not, however apper to be impossible) - then he basically IS just a machine: a Thing, not a Being (the fact it the Thing might have a soul stuck in it along for the ride matters nothing at this point, because one guy is not > entire population...)

I mean, I can't even appreciate him on a villainous or Evil level. He's wasteful, uninteresting and he doesn't even seem to be enjoying it. I've only seen him in scattered scenes, and he's managed to somehow suck all the fun out genocide of humans: something that on a bad day, I'm 100% behind. That takes some doing, I tell you.

[Tengu_temp]

That was a joke, a reference to the "can't stop, he's just a soldier" line. The only people who like MD Geist's character are a few tryhards on /m/.

[Nerd-o-rama]

That sounds more like Kira Yamato.

*Rainier Wolfcastle standing in front of a brick wall for an hour und a half*

[Aotrs Commander]

That was a joke, a reference to the "can't stop, he's just a soldier" line. The only people who like MD Geist's character are a few tryhards on /m/.

...

*skullpalm*

*skulldesk*

Well.

Now I fell silly.

Sorry guys, missed that entirely!

That post was a bit incoherent for me as well, come to that. Apparently I was more weary than I thought last night...

I'll get my cloak...

[HMS Invincible]

Psycho Pass S2-4
Sigh, why are your women so stupid? If you have a cellphone, why don't you use it to call for backup? On top of that, it was incredibly frustrating watching 4 enforcers and an inspector make up increasingly tortured excuses as why they shouldn't help/move in as the minutes ticked by.

[Ibrinar]

I only tried it for the sake of completeness but I kinda like Ore Twintail Ni Narimasu. It's just so silly.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Good episode, built a lot of stuff. I continue to love Fuji-nee. And I think some of the foreshadowing this episode reminded me that I've been spoiled on Archer's identity, I just didn't put it together until now. Assuming that he is who I think I remember he is. Assuming they were talking about Unlimited Blade Works. Or, to clear things up--I remembered something very particular about the identity of a Servant that strongly deviated from the norm for Servants, but don't know if it was from this iteration of Fate. The foreshadowing is making me think so, however.

Gotta love the continued dramatic irony. Shirou fibbing that Saber was coming to visit Kiritsugu.

Cryptic introduction of Caster...does every Caster just build up a lair or something? I mean, I guess that's what the appropriate Caster tactic would be...

Fight next episode! Fight next episode! That's what the previews seem to indicate, anyhow.

[Prime32]

Cryptic introduction of Caster...does every Caster just build up a lair or something? I mean, I guess that's what the appropriate Caster tactic would be...Caster's class skills are Item Construction and Territory Creation, the latter of which is... basically "build a lair", yeah.

Saber's are Magic Resistance (works on everything that D&D spell resistance would work on) and Riding
Rider's are Riding and Magic Resistance
Lancer's are Battle Continuation (reduce penalties from wounds) and Magic Resistance
Berserker's is Mad Enhancement (increase stats at the cost of sanity)
Assassin's is Presence Concealment
Archer's is Independent Action (increase the amount of time they can survive without mana)

Exactly how strong the skill is varies from Servant to Servant, and it's possible for members of other classes to have these skills as personal skills, so in theory you could have a Caster who doesn't create lairs because their benefits are too minor, or alternatively a Lancer who can create lairs due to some aspect of their legend.

[Pronounceable]

UBW continues to be not bad. But it's not exactly like how I'd have done it therefore I'm gonna mark them down for not reading my mind: ufotable sucks, worst episode ever, 8.8

New Ilya scene could've used a different setting, that was unnecessary at best. Then again, unfortunately Prisma Ilya exists and even more unfortunately, so does its fans. I do enjoy the apparent whiplash they suffered from seeing real Ilya in last episode though, that doesn't get old.
They finally cleared something that's been unclear since the beginning, so good job Nasu.

While we didn't really need even more explanations of the war, Shirou did. And they're doing a generally stellar job of trimming unnecessary bloat and the dumber scenes, I could let them get away with more exposition. Except they cut Rin's best line, which is unforgivable and ufotable sucks: 8.8

Side characters are being done really well. And we finally got ourselves some actual Unlimited Food Porn. They also threw in a whole bunch of foreshadowing that seems overkill to me, while it's probably barely even noticable for newcomers.

Unexpected mooks were unexpected but not unwelcome. This bodes well for future action scenes. CG effects aren't flawless though, presumably they'll fix it on boxes.
..
Good episode overall, they're going slow and steady, letting the narrative (and more likely their budget) breathe. Next one should have at least two battles though, unless they massively bloat the first one to push second into a cliffhanger.

vvv Well it's more of a general state of surprisedness than a teary soul rending whiplash. I saw similar comments on a bunch of random blogs I looked at and projected a whiplash on general Prisma Ilya audience because I like to imagine their distress (because screw em).

[deuterio12]

New Ilya scene could've used a different setting, that was unnecessary at best. Then again, unfortunately Prisma Ilya exists and even more unfortunately, so does its fans. I do enjoy the apparent whiplash they suffered from seeing real Ilya in last episode though, that doesn't get old.

Could you point me to where you saw such "whiplash" from Prism Ilya fans?

Mind you, the "real" Ilya only shows her true face on the original game's bad ends. Aka the Ilya that orders Berseker to chop Shirou into pieces while casting a spell to make him unable to die/traps his soul in a plush toy/etc.

Shame the anime can't really show those up (or all the other bad ends for the matter). All the different ways Shirou could die/worst in each route was actually quite entertaining.

Also food porn without lengthy smell/taste narrations just isn't the same thing.:smallfrown:

But overall nice episode, Caster seems to also have received an upgrade with her new summons.:smallbiggrin:

[Sallera]

Except they cut Rin's best line, which is unforgivable

I'm a bit behind, and it's been a while since I read the VN; which line is that?

[Pronounceable]

I'm a bit behind, and it's been a while since I read the VN; which line is that?
http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20130/12-UBW04-01-17.jpg

[Mando Knight]

I only tried it for the sake of completeness but I kinda like Ore Twintail Ni Narimasu. It's just so silly.

I watched the first episode last night. "Silly" is the most accurate word for it, I think. The premise is utterly stupid (on par with "clothes were invented by aliens to shape humanity into something that they could feed on"), but they just take it and run with it. The execution is highly energetic and tongue-in-cheek, and I don't really fault it for being entertaining nonsense.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Oh, and RE: UBW...I now understand what was so fundamentally weird about Prisma Ilya, of which I saw the first episode. They basically ran all the character relationships through a blender and added strangeness.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Aw dangit. I hit a feels bomb in Magi.

Literally started tearing up at that last scene in Episode 17. It was just sad and wonderful and after all that intense pain coming out from Cassim's past, it...yeah. Wow. I was enjoying the show, and then that happened. If they can do that consistently in the show, I'm gonna be hooked.

[Sith_Happens]

That awkward moment when you suddenly realize that

Mami might have had a half-decent chance of surviving if her soul gem was literally anything other than a hairpin.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That awkward moment when you suddenly realize that

Mami might have had a half-decent chance of surviving if her soul gem was literally anything other than a hairpin.
Eyup. Them's the breaks.

[HMS Invincible]

That awkward moment when you suddenly realize that

Mami might have had a half-decent chance of surviving if her soul gem was literally anything other than a hairpin.

You have some precedent for this(Homura took her gun and blew her own brains out), but it's not the best strategy. IIRC, she took several seconds to heal. You would too if you just splattered half your brain. In that similar space of time, Mami was decapitated, and then consumed.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Presumably witches like soul gems as much as Mahou Shoujo like Grief Seeds and know to aim for those.

[Pronounceable]

Today I've discovered a miraculous thing on the internet it's certainly the best thing ever, namely a set of Umineko fanart videos. They have slain me and I am now dead. There are major spoilers for episodes 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ob4pdCkOaM&list=UUGRqUTTM2ymlIIb6K_4I4QQ), 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDcTuZ6i84&list=UUGRqUTTM2ymlIIb6K_4I4QQ), 6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDo3mmdvxsc&list=UUGRqUTTM2ymlIIb6K_4I4QQ) and 7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDyFpOVitMg&list=UUGRqUTTM2ymlIIb6K_4I4QQ) but only if you can see past the crushing kawaii and not die of acute poisoning. This is the first time Japan's obsession with cuteness is remotely understandable and justifiable to me because damn.

[mallorean_thug]

Hmm, with how old those are, I'm amazed I've never seen them before. The Erica one was perfect. Thanks for the link!

[Hazzardevil]

I haven't [verb]ed the VNs, are they worth [verb]ing?
I don't know what's the word for experiencing them.

And has anyone watched Berserk? Because I've finished and I can't really describe it other than I don't think I've ever felt sick after watching something.

[Pronounceable]

I haven't [verb]ed the VNs, are they worth [verb]ing?
I don't know what's the word for experiencing them.
Which ones? A vast majority of all VNs suck, exactly like every other kind of art, but there's some great stuff. They're exactly as verbable as books and just as variably qualitified.

And Japan produces a lot of sick ****, sometimes even with artistic merit. It's by no means a rare phenomenon to be disturbed, horrified and/or disgusted with some anime or manga.

edit: In case you were asking about Umineko specifically, it's the best thing I've ever read and I've read a moderate number of things.

[Prime32]

And has anyone watched Berserk? Because I've finished and I can't really describe it other than I don't think I've ever felt sick after watching something.Berserk is an extremely dark story, and the anime ends at the single darkest, most <beep>ed-up part of the entire narrative. That is, your reaction is perfectly normal. Things do get better after the Eclipse (it even starts to shift from Low Fantasy to Heroic Fantasy), but Guts is severely traumatised by the experience and never really gets over it.
The manga plotline goes much further if you're interested, though I'd recommend starting from the beginning since the anime leaves out some important characters and plot points.

[Terraoblivion]

VNs tend towards absolutely awful, clunky prose though, so be warned.

To be perfectly honest, the best VNs I've read haven't even been Japanese, they're Katawa Shoujo which is a product of 4chan of all places and also free and the pair of Analogue: A Hate Story and its sequel Hate Plus.

Katawa Shoujo follows a more classic format with dateable girls who each get a route where you also learn more about them. However, despite that it is neither porn, nor allowing the player to put himself in the shoes of the guy who picks his favorite girl. Instead the choice is made depending on the player portraying the kind of character who'd end up hanging out with that girl and in one case, it even makes some meta-commentary of what that kind of person is. Mostly, though, it's a carefully written story that's clearly a product of passion and truly tries to present all the characters as well-rounded people, with complex, realistic problems and in all the routes the dating is clearly secondary to the character exploration. Also, everyone is physically disabled in some way and the story neither ignores that or defines the characters by it. And it has the best price which is free, just download it from the website (http://www.katawa-shoujo.com/). The promotional line pretty much sums up the primary theme: "You are not alone and you're not broken. You are you and everyone has damage. Be the better person."

On a more personal level, it speaks greatly to me. I'm not disabled, but I do belong to a minority that has to live life closely tied to the medical system and who others have a horrible time truly understanding or relating to even when they're well-meaning, so the portrayal of physical disability hit close to home and saw my own experiences mirrored in them. I don't want to elaborate on what exactly, I'm simply bringing this up to say that it is truly respectful and empathetic towards its characters. Doing my first route of it, I couldn't concentrate on anything else for a week after and just thinking about the feelings it created makes me tear up. It's not a conventional story, especially not for VNs, and it does have some rough spots where the art or the exact phrasing could be better, but the core of the story is amazing as a collection of character studies.

Analogue: A Hate Story and Hate Plus have you take the role of a salvager investigating a derelict colony ship to find out why it never reached its destiny and how its people died. From that cheery start, it moves on to a somewhat unusual format where you don't talk to characters to advance a plot as much as reading through the old documents of the crew while it was still alive and discuss the meaning of them with the ship's two AIs. Both have agendas, both are likely to end up liking you and both are very likable despite major flaws as people, one is in your face about those flaws, the other isn't. And the story that unfolds is grim, made all the more grimmer by being based on actual, real world scholarship giving it weight, the VN even lists its sources. I don't want to spoil too much, but it's a very powerful and surprisingly complex story that I can't recommend enough. Just keep in mind that you'll have to cheat to get the best ending of the first game and an entire route of the second. And, no, I'm not going to explain how.

[mallorean_thug]

I haven't [verb]ed the VNs, are they worth [verb]ing?
I don't know what's the word for experiencing them.

I guess I'm the only one who thought he was specifically responding to the two posts immediately before his talking about Umineko no naku koro ni and thus read his post as a question about that specific VN?

To answer that question, I would say that Umineko is my absolute favorite piece of media in any medium. I think that it is absolutely worth reading (the verb I would use, though "play" is fine too), but totally understand anybody not being able to get into it. Its long (Reading through it will probably take you ~80 hours at least), it has a pretty boring introduction, the original art was offputting, and it plainly isn't trying to appeal to a broad audience. But if you can get past all that, I honestly think that its the most fun and fulfilling experience I've ever had. Some people seem to think that it goes entirely downhill in the second half, and you might even join them, but I enjoyed it the entire way through and stand by the ending as perfect.


VNs tend towards absolutely awful, clunky prose though, so be warned.


I don't think that this statement is true. I think the better statement would be "Fan translations tend towards awful, clunky prose, especially when they attempt to be literal instead of localizing" This is especially true if the translator is an inexperienced non-native English speaker, like takajun was when he penned the Fate/Stay Night translation. Profession translations of pieces in that medium, like say Aksys's translations of 999 and Virtue's Last Reward or Capcom's translations for Phoenix Wright, are no more clunky then any other medium.

[Hazzardevil]

I guess I'm the only one who thought he was specifically responding to the two posts immediately before his talking about Umineko no naku koro ni and thus read his post as a question about that specific VN?

To answer that question, I would say that Umineko is my absolute favorite piece of media in any medium. I think that it is absolutely worth reading (the verb I would use, though "play" is fine too), but totally understand anybody not being able to get into it. Its long (Reading through it will probably take you ~80 hours at least), it has a pretty boring introduction, the original art was offputting, and it plainly isn't trying to appeal to a broad audience. But if you can get past all that, I honestly think that its the most fun and fulfilling experience I've ever had. Some people seem to think that it goes entirely downhill in the second half, and you might even join them, but I enjoyed it the entire way through and stand by the ending as perfect.

I was asking about that one in paticular, but it prompted an interesting discussion. I have read two visual novels and haven't finished either. These were Katawa Shoujo and Cross Channel. For some reason I don't like the reading. I enjoy reading books, but there's something about just reading the text off the screen that doesn't work for me.
I will probably get back to Katawa Shoujo, not so sure about Cross Channel.
Cross Channel is, according to a friend, about an academy where people are in various levels of sociopathy.
I just saw you play as a character who is either a kind friend or a filthy pervert depending on options, with decisions like "Help her clean" or "grab her chest."



I don't think that this statement is true. I think the better statement would be "Fan translations tend towards awful, clunky prose, especially when they attempt to be literal instead of localizing" This is especially true if the translator is an inexperienced non-native English speaker, like takajun was when he penned the Fate/Stay Night translation. Profession translations of pieces in that medium, like say Aksys's translations of 999 and Virtue's Last Reward or Capcom's translations for Phoenix Wright, are no more clunky then any other medium.

I think we are getting into problems of bad writing getting translations as well. A comparison I can think of is giving Twilight translated into a non-germanic or romance language and then having them read it. You can't make trash good with a simple translation. We're on the end where we don't know if the person translated it badly or the writing was awful to begin with.


Berserk is an extremely dark story, and the anime ends at the single darkest, most <beep>ed-up part of the entire narrative. That is, your reaction is perfectly normal. Things do get better after the Eclipse (it even starts to shift from Low Fantasy to Heroic Fantasy), but Guts is severely traumatised by the experience and never really gets over it.
The manga plotline goes much further if you're interested, though I'd recommend starting from the beginning since the anime leaves out some important characters and plot points.
Also, not so sure it was Berserk that made me ill, I'm not feeling better today either.
I made a start on the manga part way through me watching the series and on about Chapter 14. Also, are the films they made recently worth watching or should I avoid them?

[Terraoblivion]

I think we are getting into problems of bad writing getting translations as well. A comparison I can think of is giving Twilight translated into a non-germanic or romance language and then having them read it. You can't make trash good with a simple translation. We're on the end where we don't know if the person translated it badly or the writing was awful to begin with.

Some forms of awful get transmitted. Like endless repetition or exposition by way of a lecture about things that never end up mattering. Not to mention the cardinal sin of VNs...Showing an expression and then wasting time having the narrator tell us what it is. For some reason VN writers thinks that's a good idea. Don't ask me why. Writing is more than just the skill with which independent sentences are put together, it's also how the sentences are put together in relation and VNs have a tendency to overexplain that frequently drags the genre down. Fate/Stay Night is a particularly grave offender, which is probably the source of much of Shirou's sheer obnoxiousness, the overexplaining is often in his mouth after all.

[Prime32]

Some forms of awful get transmitted. Like endless repetition or exposition by way of a lecture about things that never end up mattering. Not to mention the cardinal sin of VNs...Showing an expression and then wasting time having the narrator tell us what it is. For some reason VN writers thinks that's a good idea. Don't ask me why. Writing is more than just the skill with which independent sentences are put together, it's also how the sentences are put together in relation and VNs have a tendency to overexplain that frequently drags the genre down. Fate/Stay Night is a particularly grave offender, which is probably the source of much of Shirou's sheer obnoxiousness, the overexplaining is often in his mouth after all.That's hardly limited to VNs; just about every (fan-translated) light novel I've read does that. And then of course there's the infamous "side characters comment on which attacks the shonen hero is using" trope.

For the specific case of showing an expression and then describing it, part of that is due to limited art assets - there might be a lot of subtle differences in expression or body language between scenes which the writers want to capture, but creating CGs for all of them would be incredibly expensive, particularly if movement is required, so the same sprite gets used in multiple situations.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

As another data point, the Steins;Gate anime is making me very impatient with the Visual Novel, because the story moves much slower. In exchange, you get a lot of substance (including more fun pseudoscience and more characterization, especially for Faris NyanNyan, who actually gets to wax a bit philosophical)...but the run time is much slower, correspondingly.

But maybe that's just having previously seen the same story in another, shorter format.

[Super Evil User]

Kaisar Lidford from Rage of Bahamut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_of_Bahamut:_Genesis) reminds us all, once again, why it sucks to be Lawful Good.

Kaisar falls from nobility after his father is executed for failing to protect the king from bandits. Out of honor, he is forced to take on the life of a bounty hunter and pursue the bandit leader's son - his best friend since childhood.

On his adventure to regain his honor, he falls into the clutches of a necromancer. She puts him under a powerful illusion and, when the illusion is broken, tries to kill him. This backfires when she gets caught in an accident and is brought to the brink of death. Rather than take revenge (or simply walk away), Kaisar is compelled by his Good alignment to save her from her fate. So he has to take revenge for his dad, but can't take revenge for himself?

And the worst part is that now she follows him around like a lost puppy. So as a direct result of his Good deed, he's cursed with a barnacle on his side!

It truly does suck to be Lawful Good, huh?

[HMS Invincible]

I was surprised they didn't explain why the girl who was zombified got "better" and follows him around as a convenient plot tool. What evidence shows he saved her? I thought he was unwilling to kill her? It even shows in the post credit scene him wondering why she can talk. Or did you not see any of the ending scenes?

[Super Evil User]

She's still a zombie, but is sentient for some reason.

[Terraoblivion]

Five episodes in, Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru continues to be very interesting and very good at keeping you guessing without coming off inconsistent or half-assed. I have some guesses at where it is going, but it seems way too clever about setting up expectations and then taking them in different directions while making it all make sense for me to truly say where it is going. I don't think it'll live up to my fears when I first started watching it, but I can't say for certain that it won't. It has also been quite good at getting me invested in the girls and what's going on with them and it's clearly saving something big for the second half of the series given what was in the latest episode.

Really, I'd probably say that it is the most interesting show of the season or possibly. It does some new and unusual things, mostly centering on Togo, and it is genuinely unpredictable where it is going. It can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but so far it is really good and keeps me engaged by trying to guess what is going to happen as well, which is very rare for me.

[Hiro Protagonest]

And it has the best price which is free, just download it from the website (http://www.katawa-shoujo.com/).

Really? Great. I was interested in it after watching the MetaDating episodes on it (which is a series on YouTube where three guys played various games about romance for a few hours a game then reviewed it based on that), since it was definitely the best game they played. One of the guys even played it a while between the weeks that they played it for the show, and noted that the path he took was quite different than the one they played for recording.

*adds to list of unfinished games*

[HMS Invincible]

Psychopass 5 continues to treat women badly but if the cast is majority women that somehow makes it ok. I did like a couple scenes where the characters were showing off cool poses and the angry birds reference.

[Prime32]

Five episodes in, Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru continues to be very interesting and very good at keeping you guessing without coming off inconsistent or half-assed. I have some guesses at where it is going, but it seems way too clever about setting up expectations and then taking them in different directions while making it all make sense for me to truly say where it is going. I don't think it'll live up to my fears when I first started watching it, but I can't say for certain that it won't. It has also been quite good at getting me invested in the girls and what's going on with them and it's clearly saving something big for the second half of the series given what was in the latest episode.

Really, I'd probably say that it is the most interesting show of the season or possibly. It does some new and unusual things, mostly centering on Togo, and it is genuinely unpredictable where it is going. It can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but so far it is really good and keeps me engaged by trying to guess what is going to happen as well, which is very rare for me.I'd say a big contributor to the unpredictability is just how they handle the OPs and EDs. :smalltongue: Nothing shows up in them before it shows up in the show itself, no matter how important.

[mallorean_thug]

Really, I'd probably say that it is the most interesting show of the season or possibly.

Hmm, I had completely dismissed it when I watched the trailer pre-season, which seems to have been a bad idea. I guess a recent episode was really good? Because I also hadn't seen any buzz about it since then until this week. Oh well, another show can't hurt, and I can't pass up something that has recs from both Terraoblivion and Prime32.

Personally, Shirobako is maybe my favorite thing airing right now. Its at least the best anime original thing this season. Its firmly established itself as a workplace drama instead of a CGDCT show, and Aoi has far more depth than I was going to give her credit for at first. It has just as much detail and reference oriented fanservice for anime industry otaku as Girls Und Panzer had for military otaku, but the show still works perfectly fine even if you don't immediately recognize Ichiro Itano. The director's plight is just as funny even if you don't remember that GUP did in fact, end its tv run with a recap episode. Honestly, I think that anybody whose at all interested in the medium, the industry, or in watching good shows should really pick this one up.

Parasyte is also in the running somewhere, with the most recent one finally managing overcome its only flaw, the ost.

I really don't know how I dismissed all the death flags in the first half of the episode. I mean, at the point the parasyte was thinking to itself that it needed to find a new female body, it was obvious where we were going, but the show overtly discussing the possibility of his parents dying to an attack should have told me something was up.

Either way, the plot for this show is definitely going somewhere and fast. If only if it could leave the inappropriate dubstep in its dust more often.

Garo is also pretty great, and with the amount of discussion Samurai Flamenco got around here, I'd have thought that there would be more discussion about it. Maybe I should have brought it up earlier? Sadly, I haven't gotten around to watching today's episode yet.

I was going to type that "Psycho pass 2 is really stupid compared to season 1" until I actually thought about season 1 with its Spooky Boogie and Hyper Oats. Either way, the last two episodes have come off as pretty hamfisted and silly to me.

The hacked killer drones was telegraphed from a mile away, and both making the police "culpable" and seeing how people's hue's react to finding out that they inadvertently murdered people is perfectly in line with how Kamui has been presented so far. That doesn't make the presentation any less silly.

Mika continues to be awful, and even worse (better?) the show acknowledges that fact. The scene in the chief's office had the show itself reacting in the same way the fans are, but being self aware about the problem doesn't make her a better character.

I did like that Kamui is apparently using old fashioned disguises in addition to holo wizardry, and the way that the fake representative was unmasked. And the reveal at the end of the episode was nicely done, but I wonder how much thought was put into the screenshots from s1 that were chosen. Because 1 of them was from a scene when Akane was in the brain room. Does he know that much, or was that just the staff choosing pretty pictures of her face while ignoring the context of where he'd get them in-universe?

[Terraoblivion]

I'm not necessarily saying that Yuuki Yuuna is the best show this season, though I do think it is very good. I'm saying that it's the most interesting. It does things that haven't really been done before with Togo and it keeps subverting expectations without making it seem like an asspull to keep you guessing and creating a unique experience that way. I mean, it has even subverted the expectations of how it is going to subvert expectations by this point. There just isn't anything quite like it because of this and just seeing where it is going and working out what it's trying to do makes it interesting. It wouldn't be if it just seemed like a broken narrative, but it doesn't, it's all very clearly deliberate.

And, yes, episode 5 was really, really good. Even if it seems like something that would normally be in an entirely different place in a show.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Episode 1 of Garo was so dire and pretentious I didn't bother with any more.

Yuki Yuna wa Yusha de aru just felt 'not terrible' in a really bland way from the first three episodes. I could happily never watch another one.

Shigatsu wa kimi no Uso is amazing so far but I can't shake the feeling I'll hate the plot once I know what it is.

Parasyte is enjoyable enough to want to keep watching.

Rage of Bahamut doesn't actually interest me enough to have watched past episode 3 yet but did continuously surprise me with how fun it is.

[mallorean_thug]

I'm not sure that "pretentious" is the right word for Garo. That implies intellectual ambitions that the show plainly doesn't have. I think the right words are maybe self-serious and Metal? Which is an aesthetic that you definitely have to buy into to enjoy. I don't think that the show would work if it didn't take itself seriously though. Sure its easy to snark at Power Rangers in a very dark medieval setting, but I think that the show is making it work. Its not like its humorless, its humor is just character based and not making fun of its own premise.

Shigatsu wa kimi no uso has definitely had some moments of brilliance so far, with major props to its direction, ost, and animation. Its brought down by its over-reliance on internal monologues, chibi scenes/exaggerated violence, and that our main girl hasn't been defined well enough to move out of Manic Pixie Dream Girl territory. Basically its painfully Shoujo to a fault. Though
I do like Shoujo's willingness to include failed relationships in their character arcs. Really, there's nothing worse than a show about romance ending without showing a single active relationship. I feel really bad for baseball team captain though. He's going to be crushed when this relationship ends, and then he'll probably just disappear from the show.

I'm also enjoying Bahamut, but I've been watching it with a friend, and we're several episodes behind, so I can't really say much.

[Kato]

I guess I need to get catch up to some more shows but I at least feel the need to spen a few words on the two recent Gundam shows...


Try is... okay? It doesn't have quite the charm of its predecessor, somehow. Maybe we need to get more involved in the battles for this to happen. I DO like the triple teams, instead of one-on-ones, it's a bit closer to the realite of a real Gundam fight which in the middle of war happened more rarily between only two suits. Also: Chance for more action.


G however... I just have a hard time getting hooked on. There are nice parts once in a while but most of it seems either really disconnected, boring, confused, or... weird. So the slur we've seen used once in a while is a term refering to people who were bred to commit cannibalism? a) What the eff happened during the end of UC? And b) what sick society uses people who were treated like that as an insult and it seems to be okay? Unless the message is the Capital people are way more eff-ed up then it seemed so far (well, they are a bit, but that really turns up the scale) Also, still not really happy with the animation... it's not AGE but it somehow seems... childish, in a way.

[Prime32]

I'm not sure that "pretentious" is the right word for Garo. That implies intellectual ambitions that the show plainly doesn't have. I think the right words are maybe self-serious and Metal? Which is an aesthetic that you definitely have to buy into to enjoy. I don't think that the show would work if it didn't take itself seriously though. Sure its easy to snark at Power Rangers in a very dark medieval setting, but I think that the show is making it work. Its not like its humorless, its humor is just character based and not making fun of its own premise.While I've never watched any incarnation of Garo myself, I hear that the writing goes downhill after the first series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuOrQko1c1w). I don't know if that applies to the anime.

[Tengu_temp]

I might like GBF Try more than GBF S1, actually. Sekai is a way better and more likable character than Reiji, and his martial arts are more interesting and flashy than just ending every fight with a freakin' Build Knuckle. Fumina is great and gets equal spotlight despite being a girl in a Gundam show. Also, Try seems to already operate on the same level of ridiculousness that S1 took a while to reach, which is good because that's the show's biggest strength.

As for G-Reco... The writing is pure Tomino, if you hate his writing then you'll hate this show too. I'll defend the animation though: the designs might be a strange Turn A Gundam/Eureka Seven mashup, and characters are off-model sometimes, but there's a huge amount of background details going on in almost every scene, details the show doesn't draw your attention to and leaves for you to discover. The animation itself feels very alive, with lots of unrelated things moving at once - this is rare in western animation, and even rarer in anime which usually has very low budget.

Overall, I like both shows, GBF Try more than G-Reco. To balance them out, Sunrise is also airing Cross Ange this season, which suuuuuuuucks.

[Prime32]

Sekai is a way better and more likable character than Reiji, and his martial arts are more interesting and flashy than just ending every fight with a freakin' Build Knuckle.Had Build Knuckle even been invented by this point in S1 though?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This week's Unlimited Blade Works in a nutshell:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/RinFreakout.png

SHIROU DID YOU JUST DO THAT WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU DIE

Wow, they give just enough of a fight to catch my interest, then cut it short because they're a massive tease like that. :smalltongue:

The dynamic between Rin and Shirou is absolutely hilarious now. Shirou's perfect stupidity has completely foiled Rin's savviness! It'd be a perfect strategy if it weren't so unintentional! I think I just enjoy watching Rin get utterly baffled by his gross incompetence. Not because I have anything against her, it's just hilarious to watch her beholding Shirou's lack of experience as it reaches new depths.

Though, I gotta hand it to him: he has a knack for whacking Servants with a magical stick and managing to not die immediately.

[Tengu_temp]

Had Build Knuckle even been invented by this point in S1 though?

They can't devolve from using varied attacks and tactics to just ending every battle with the same boring Shining Finger knockoff, right?

...I'll keep a gun near, just in case.

[HMS Invincible]

This week's Unlimited Blade Works in a nutshell:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/RinFreakout.png

SHIROU DID YOU JUST DO THAT WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU DIE

Wow, they give just enough of a fight to catch my interest, then cut it short because they're a massive tease like that. :smalltongue:

The dynamic between Rin and Shirou is absolutely hilarious now. Shirou's perfect stupidity has completely foiled Rin's savviness! It'd be a perfect strategy if it weren't so unintentional! I think I just enjoy watching Rin get utterly baffled by his gross incompetence. Not because I have anything against her, it's just hilarious to watch her beholding Shirou's lack of experience as it reaches new depths.

Though, I gotta hand it to him: he has a knack for whacking Servants with a magical stick and managing to not die immediately.

He's actually still terrible at fighting. Rider is just humoring him to force him to waste command spells. It's kinda odd though, cuz you could just kill him. Not that it would work, but you should try to kill him right away, not mess around. I can't think of a reason besides plot to not go for the kill right away (as when rider tried killing Rin).

[deuterio12]

He's actually still terrible at fighting. Rider is just humoring him to force him to waste command spells. It's kinda odd though, cuz you could just kill him. Not that it would work, but you should try to kill him right away, not mess around. I can't think of a reason besides plot to not go for the kill right away (as when rider tried killing Rin).

Thing is, Shirou is your typical shonen main character that may be dumb as a brick but has excellent natural reflexes, strength, and battle instinct. Blocking Rider's chain sneak attack and then shrugging off the pain of having a hole of that size in your arm, he's somebody you probably wouldn't want to directly brawl with.

Plus remember, Shirou probably has the highest victory count between the 3 game routes:

-Defeated the evil priest x2.
-Defeated Gilgamesh.
-Defeated Berseker in close combat with some help from Saber.
-Defeated corrupted Berseker in close combat by himself.
-Defeated Dark Limit Break Saber.

Also fought his servant version and the assassin monk master to standstills.


On the other hand

In the third route it's implied that Rider had a crush all along for Shirou, since her personality is quite similar to her actual master, Sakura, and that's why she prefers to "play" around with him instead of going straight for the kill.

[Pronounceable]

The things I did not expect in UBW ep5:
-...
You know, that went about exactly as I expected it would go. I'm a future psychic now. Also it's good but we already knew that.

Rider not killing them both here is as weird as it was in VN. Rider does kill Shirou in bad ends and started by trying to kill Rin, so she's clearly not ordered to spare them. The only reason I can find for her retreat is plot, which mildly pisses me off. If Rin only had brought Archer along, everything would've been dandy.

Yes I know, Sakura, but Shinji's calling the shots and Rider is demonstrably not considerate enough to spare them for Sakura's sake.


Also Shirou continues to get his face mashed into trees by girls. It's quality entertainment, hopefully Sakura and Taiga can also take their turns.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm not sure that "pretentious" is the right word for Garo. That implies intellectual ambitions that the show plainly doesn't have.

It was meaningless noise all the same. "Pretension" can be of anything, not just intellectual meaning.

[DoctorFaust]

I've been watching a few episodes of Nanoha and Tutu, and I have to say, Tutu is by far my favorite of the pair. I feel like the animation has held up better than most, the characters and interesting, especially Ahiru, and I'm really liking the ballet theme/references so far. Nanoha is pretty decent, but the first few episodes were too saccharine for my tastes. Tried watching YuYuYu, which felt kinda bland, and Fate/KLPI, which I thought was a pretty good parody of the main Fate-verse.

Also, Ore Twintails is by far one of the funniest shows that I have ever seen, and is now beating out UBW for my favorite show this season. Genuinely surprised by how good it is.

Hanako is best girl, by the way. The last scene in her route almost had me in tears.

[BWR]

Hanako is best girl, by the way. The last scene in her route almost had me in tears.

I liked Emi best, but Rin struck as the one with the most trouble and the one who had the hardest time starting to heal. Hanako was obviously troubled but understandable. Rin just left me with the feeling that she would end up broken no matter what, with her difficulties communicating with people and knowing herself.

Oretwinail is my second favorite show this season, after Mushi-shi. I'd hardly say it's the funniest thing I've seen but it's amusing. Still, it doesn't have much competition among currently airing stuff.

[DoctorFaust]

I haven't watched a lot of comedy anime, which probably explains my opinion of it. But it still had my laughing more than anything since Baccano!.

[HMS Invincible]

Re nanoha. Try watching the movies, it'll give you the same summary with less fillery sweetness and more mecha class friending explosions.

[Tengu_temp]

Holy crap, why didn't anyone tell me there's more Mushi-shi this season? Time to catch up!

[deuterio12]

I've been watching a few episodes of Nanoha and Tutu, and I have to say, Tutu is by far my favorite of the pair. I feel like the animation has held up better than most, the characters and interesting, especially Ahiru, and I'm really liking the ballet theme/references so far. Nanoha is pretty decent, but the first few episodes were too saccharine for my tastes. Tried watching YuYuYu, which felt kinda bland, and Fate/KLPI, which I thought was a pretty good parody of the main Fate-verse.

Then I'm gonna give +1 for you to try watching Card Captor Sakura if you have the time. I just feel like you would enjoy it based on your reactions to those other animes.



Also, Ore Twintails is by far one of the funniest shows that I have ever seen, and is now beating out UBW for my favorite show this season. Genuinely surprised by how good it is.


I've also been positively impressed by this anime, quite refreshing and funny.

[Nerd-o-rama]

This week's Unlimited Blade Works in a nutshell:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/RinFreakout.png

SHIROU DID YOU JUST DO THAT WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU DIE

That's all of Fate/Stay Night in a nutshell. Unless you enjoy watching Shirou get ganked, which is a perfectly valid form of entertainment in and of itself.

The man's ignorance and utter lack of self-preservation instinct is the greatest source of comedy in the story, even in Unlimited Blade Works, where

Addressing the latter is played entirely for drama and is part of the fulcrum of his character development.

[Prime32]

That's all of Fate/Stay Night in a nutshell. Unless you enjoy watching Shirou get ganked, which is a perfectly valid form of entertainment in and of itself.And just think, the adaptations don't even include the bad ends. In the VN you're required to get all of them to unlock some bonus scenes, and each of them comes with a skit of Taiga and Ilya mocking Shirou for his incompetence. :smalltongue:
Tsukihime had one point where taking the wrong choice will get the protagonist eaten by a shark... on the third floor of an apartment building. Some of Shirou's deaths are almost as bizarre.

[deuterio12]

And just think, the adaptations don't even include the bad ends. In the VN you're required to get all of them to unlock some bonus scenes, and each of them comes with a skit of Taiga and Ilya mocking Shirou for his incompetence. :smalltongue:

Not exactly true, since at several times taking what looks like the competent option leads to a bad end, whereas choosing to recklessly charge into danger while screaming "Let's do this! SSSHHHHHIIIIRRRROOOOUUUU EEEEMMMYYIIIAAA!!!" is the only way to advance! This leads to the player always being on the edge of whetever he should do the sensible thing, or act as Shirou would.:smallbiggrin:

(and then for hilarity's sake there's the fake bad end where turns out Shirou was simply knocked out, and Taiga and Ilya mocking him being just a nightmare).

[Pronounceable]

bad ends
Bad ends are the best thing about FSN. Tsukihime might have really odd deaths but Ciel Sensei cannot prevail against Tiger Dojo. Maybe they'll do some Tiger Dojo extras later on. Zero had ECR skits, we still have some hope.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hanako is best girl, by the way. The last scene in her route almost had me in tears.

You should be more specific with the spoiler titles, Katawa Shoujo is like six different stories.

If you didn't consider that a spoiler, just off topic, the second sentence is vague but still kinda spoilery.

I just finished Hanako's story after Lilly's, and... wow. I don't think I realized something until now.
I think I got the bad ending for Lilly's story. The credits were rolling down the center and there were no images.

I got a/the bad ending for Hanako's too, but it seemed obviously bad and unfulfilled. The scene was titled "Misstep", and the act had a picture of her resting her hand on Hisao's surgery scar, while Hisao never showed her his scar in the bad ending.

On the other hand, Lilly's seemed bittersweet. Not a happy ending, but better, and looking to the future with hope. The choice she was given seemed like a catch-22. External forces were at work, and it felt like there was nothing that I could have done to change it. I don't think the game ever gave me a "press the issue" option whenever the foreshadowing of Lilly being troubled came up.

What's funny is that I got the kinda crazy idea that in Lilly's story, the relationship was destiny because of the amount of bumping into each other in Act 1. :smalltongue:

Now I'm going to have to go through the options that pop up in Lilly's story by trial and error. Good thing I decided to save all the choices, just in case.
The difference in pacing between the two stories is quite interesting. Lilly's story goes all the way through the school year, while Hanako's ends when Lilly's still away on her trip. It's not just that Hanako's story is more compact in terms of in-game time either, the overall structure is different too. Hisao does really seem to have some personality differences too; both are plausibly the guy from Act 1, but different.

The perfectionist in me wants to get rid of that scrap of paper on the title screen showing that I started Emi's story. Overwriting the save I made after her Act 2 cutscene didn't work. I originally planned to try Emi's story, but I'd just feel bad about not being a major presence in Hanako's life.

I never had any interest in dating the other girls. Rin is weird, and while as a weird character I prefer her to Kenji, I have no interest in trying to get her to talk about meaningful things in ways I understand. Misha... I feel like she has hidden depths, but I don't care. I'd have to get through a lot of time spent on Misha being Misha. Shizune kinda scares me, and while she does seem to be less abrasive and more caring when not arguing with Lilly, I don't really have any interest in her and her ambitions, except as a mental note to remember her and see where she goes after school. Even if I did have an interest in Misha or Shizune, I'd have to always be with both of them for quite a while before I could pry one away from the other.

Also, I'm adding a lot of the Katawa Shoujo soundtrack (uploaded by others) to my favorites playlist on YouTube, maybe I should just make a new playlist. Maybe.

[DoctorFaust]

You should be more specific with the spoiler titles, Katawa Shoujo is like six different stories.

If you didn't consider that a spoiler, just off topic, the second sentence is vague but still kinda spoilery.


Eh, yeah, I know. On a slightly more relevant note, I started watching Seitokai Yakuidomo on the recommendation of my brother. And, well, two and a half episodes in and I'm still not sure what to think of it. It's a pretty funny slice of life, but so far there's been about as much plot as K-on! or Azumanga had.

I actually had the same trouble with Rin's route. A little too weird, or strange, or out there, or something, for me to want to do anything meaningful with her. Lily's route seemed a bit like a gender-flip of Hanako's, with a few less emotional issues and a damn cool music box. I am probably going to get around to Emi's at some point, but my time has been severely limited as of late. She seems cute and less emotionally scarred than some of the other characters from the interactions you have with her in other routes, but I have heard dark things about her route.

Shizune's route seemed kinda bland to me, but I wanted to punch her goddamn father right in the egocentric face. As much as I hate to admit it, my first time playing it, I got the bad end with Misha. Felt even worse about that then I did in some of the bad ends of Hanako's.

[TheFallenOne]

This week's Unlimited Blade Works in a nutshell:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/RinFreakout.png

SHIROU DID YOU JUST DO THAT WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU DIE

Most glorious moment of the episode :smallbiggrin:

We're watching UBW in our university Anime Club, it's actually the first time we manage to keep up with a current production(we finished Zankyou no Terror last week).

Yesterday we started Girls und Panzer and NKH. The next weeks' meetings promise to get very surreal...
Girls und Panzer was my suggestion; Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun was my first pick, but watching Girls und Panzer with those subs as a group of German speakers is absolutely hilarious. The reactions of the others really add to the experience. As one said, "I don't think I'll retain my sanity if we watch two episodes of this every week".

[Terraoblivion]

Shizune isn't really hostile to people and of all the girls she's the most altruistic. She's just very determined, passionate and outspoken which can indeed drive people off. Still, she's easily the most admirable of them, even they all have understandable, sympathetic motivations. Not only is she ultimately quite altruistic, she's also the only one of them to not let fear or fatigue or personal issues hold her back from doing what she wants and who lives completely honestly with herself and even if she might be too demanding at times, it's hard not to respect that. And that's what makes her and Lilly fighting so sad, both have entirely reasonable positions and both utterly fail to communicate them to the other and instead treat it like the other is immoral.

Also, Hiro Protagonist, you've pretty much proven the point of Rin's route. It is entirely about how she doesn't know how to make others understand her or even make them try to. It's also the route that I can empathize with the most and which it took me a week to fully process. It's weird as hell, but it's also the most powerful of the routes and one that I imagine is about something a lot of nerds have felt at various times.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It's been forever since I played through, and the save file is long since gone from my computer (given that my computer has a habit of regenerating on an infrequent basis or being replaced by a new one), but Rin's route was the one I liked the best, out of the two I finished. (Yes, I never got around to the other routes, even Hanako's.)

I...really liked Rin's route. But maybe that's because I identify a huge bit with the artsy sector. I felt like...I got her. And that loneliness she felt was almost physically palpable at times. The scenes up in her flat were intense and filled with a very human melancholy. Really, that's the sort of stuff that I value with the Visual Novel style of storytelling: the ability to delve into a character and understand them, take or leave the romance and sex bits.

[Terraoblivion]

It's been forever since I played through, and the save file is long since gone from my computer (given that my computer has a habit of regenerating on an infrequent basis or being replaced by a new one), but Rin's route was the one I liked the best, out of the two I finished. (Yes, I never got around to the other routes, even Hanako's.)

I...really liked Rin's route. But maybe that's because I identify a huge bit with the artsy sector. I felt like...I got her. And that loneliness she felt was almost physically palpable at times. The scenes up in her flat were intense and filled with a very human melancholy. Really, that's the sort of stuff that I value with the Visual Novel style of storytelling: the ability to delve into a character and understand them, take or leave the romance and sex bits.

That was my experience as well. I might not be part of an artsy sector, but it hit really close to my experience with academia and my own experiences in it. I got Rin in ways I've never gotten a fictional character before and just as importantly, it was a work where I felt the creators got me in ways I rarely feel. And that made it the most powerful artistic experience I've ever had. It caught exactly the kind of loneliness and alienation I know in ways similar to how I know it.

It might not do it for everybody, but if you're like me, Rin's route is the one that will speak to you. That said I read somebody who once said that the best girl in Katawa Shoujo is whoever has the same issues as you and I think there's a lot of truth to that, so I'm not really saying it's the best route in general. Just that it was the best route for me.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

In other news, I watched Gargantia and should probably go hide because I actually liked it. :smalltongue:

It's not a show that I wound up super-hyped about by the end, but it was good enough for what I expected it to be. I wish that the rest of the show could've measured up to the quality of the first four episodes, but there was enough there to carry it through for me. (Watching it two episodes a day may have helped with that; I can imagine that it'd start to get disappointing if you had to wait an entire week for some of those episodes.)

I was anticipating the big worldbuilding twist before they revealed it, but that was just me being genre-savvy. I still liked how everything fit together to make the situation what it was.

And I perpetually love the world itself, but then again I was a sucker for Waterworld.

My biggest complaint was the heavy-handed philosophy-spouting at the end, because the philosophies were already being strongly implied anyhow. You could've conveyed the same meanings with 20% of the lines; when I say that, I mean that I could pick out the specific lines you'd keep, while cutting the rest and changing almost nothing.

But so it goes. I wasn't wowed, but I got an ending and the beginning was fantastic. Though I don't see the point to a Season 2 or OVAs. The story's done.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Lily's route seemed a bit like a gender-flip of Hanako's, with a few less emotional issues and a damn cool music box.

...Yeah, you're kinda right. Both stories are about people who try to help someone else, and end up having to realize they have their own problems too. But in Hanako's story, it requires an outside force, Lilly, to make you realize that, while in Lilly's story, you end up putting the pieces together yourself (if you do things right to get the proper ending) and deciding you can't just let her slip through your fingers.

I ended up starting a new game for Lilly's story again, skipped all the old text, and got the good ending. I know I picked one option differently, but I can't remember which one it was. I went back to an old save of the first playthrough, picked the "avoid the subject" option in A Brief History of Thyme since I figured maybe telling her how you admire her is what drove her away in the end, trying to be independent, but it didn't work. Maybe I also have to not talk about her influence on Hanako on the train ride? I'm going to go through from the start again to see if I can figure it out...

I think Lilly's story ends better though. Hanako's story ends with Hanako being happier and more confident, with a much better relationship with you, while there's still plenty of the school year left. And that's good. But from what I can tell, Lilly's still going to be this kind of distant figure, never quite letting you guys into her life as you let her into yours, and in the end, wedging half the world between herself and the happy couple.
Um, actual anime and manga. I watched Trigun. I think mood whiplash drove me to disconnect from it. But actually, I think it's less the actual mood whiplash in and of itself, and that I can't handle the
"there is no hope!"theme in general, and that's what it is at the darkest point of the story.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Huh. I actually got the opposite feeling from Trigun, where that was the theme that the antagonist was trying to push, and Vash was saying "#!#*!%(! YOU I REJECT THAT" in his own way.

(Though, the ending for Maximum is much better, in both its similarity and difference.)

[Mx.Silver]

I generally don't watch series as they're coming out, but I'm making an exception for Mushi-shi. As should everyone else.



Though I don't see the point to a Season 2 or OVAs. The story's done.

Those were my sentiments too.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I generally don't watch series as they're coming out, but I'm making an exception for Mushi-shi. As should everyone else.

I've kept more or less up-to-date with the second series, and I haven't even seen all of the original.

[Terraoblivion]

...Yeah, you're kinda right. Both stories are about people who try to help someone else, and end up having to realize they have their own problems too. But in Hanako's story, it requires an outside force, Lilly, to make you realize that, while in Lilly's story, you end up putting the pieces together yourself (if you do things right to get the proper ending) and deciding you can't just let her slip through your fingers.

I ended up starting a new game for Lilly's story again, skipped all the old text, and got the good ending. I know I picked one option differently, but I can't remember which one it was. I went back to an old save of the first playthrough, picked the "avoid the subject" option in A Brief History of Thyme since I figured maybe telling her how you admire her is what drove her away in the end, trying to be independent, but it didn't work. Maybe I also have to not talk about her influence on Hanako on the train ride? I'm going to go through from the start again to see if I can figure it out...

I think Lilly's story ends better though. Hanako's story ends with Hanako being happier and more confident, with a much better relationship with you, while there's still plenty of the school year left. And that's good. But from what I can tell, Lilly's still going to be this kind of distant figure, never quite letting you guys into her life as you let her into yours, and in the end, wedging half the world between herself and the happy couple.

Lilly's story has the best end for Lilly, Hanako and Shizune. Lilly finally lets someone in and starts making an effort at life, instead of hovering in distant rebellion against her family, she also ends up making up with Shizune. Hanako on the other hand breaks out of her shell on her own, makes friends and starts actually looking to the future, instead of stewing in bitterness at the bullying she suffered and the pity she receives. She also seems to have a far more normal, healthy friendship with Lilly and Hisao than she does in her own route.

[DoctorFaust]

So, mostly on a whim, I caught up on YuYuYu, and damn. Episode 5 and 6 changed my opinion of the show pretty damn hard.

I'm not entirely sure how to process this, but it's six episodes in and the latest episode feels like a season finale. All the Vertexes are dead, Karin is beginning to become friends with the Hero Club, and I'm super paranoid that someone is going to die next episode. Maybe its because the writer is the same as Akame ga Kiru!, but every single episode I expecting something terrible to happen, and nothing really does. Well, except for how everyone that went Mankai lost one of their senses. I feel like it'd be worst for Itsuki if the effects are permanent, since she wants to be a singer.

[Terraoblivion]

So, mostly on a whim, I caught up on YuYuYu, and damn. Episode 5 and 6 changed my opinion of the show pretty damn hard.

I'm not entirely sure how to process this, but it's six episodes in and the latest episode feels like a season finale. All the Vertexes are dead, Karin is beginning to become friends with the Hero Club, and I'm super paranoid that someone is going to die next episode. Maybe its because the writer is the same as Akame ga Kiru!, but every single episode I expecting something terrible to happen, and nothing really does. Well, except for how everyone that went Mankai lost one of their senses. I feel like it'd be worst for Itsuki if the effects are permanent, since she wants to be a singer.

Indeed. And even though nothing terrible has happened, it keeps seeming like it might. And the various injuries the girls suffered is ominous enough to suggest that maybe something terrible will still happen. And, really, this success at keeping me guessing is what fascinates me the most about the show, it feels like something where you genuinely have to watch it all to really get what they're trying to do. Also, the girls are really likable with little touches such as how Fu's silliness is clearly an attempt at putting the others at ease when there's nothing they can do anyway.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So... does Misha not actually have a path? Looking at the Extras section, there seems to be one less cinematic than needed for six paths, and her name isn't on the list of paths that you can look at your scene history for.

I also managed to replicate my result of properly finishing Lilly's path. I got a different idea in my head than the last time I tried, and it worked.

A Brief History of Thyme - talk to her. I got the idea that if I started addressing my thoughts about her strength, it would end up with me doing the necessary reflection later. Looks like that was right, and my first theory was wrong. Stupidly, this is also the only option on her path I didn't have a save state for.

I'm not sure if any other options are necessary, but it looks like, as one would expect, communication is the key to this relationship. So I placed my bets on options where you talk more about yourself or her.And yes I know I could've just looked up a flowchart. I don't care, it's not like it's an actual puzzle game.

[Terraoblivion]

So... does Misha not actually have a path? Looking at the Extras section, there seems to be one less cinematic than needed for six paths, and her name isn't on the list of paths that you can look at your scene history for.

I also managed to replicate my result of properly finishing Lilly's path. I got a different idea in my head than the last time I tried, and it worked.

A Brief History of Thyme - talk to her. I got the idea that if I started addressing my thoughts about her strength, it would end up with me doing the necessary reflection later. Looks like that was right, and my first theory was wrong. Stupidly, this is also the only option on her path I didn't have a save state for.

I'm not sure if any other options are necessary, but it looks like, as one would expect, communication is the key to this relationship. So I placed my bets on options where you talk more about yourself or her.And yes I know I could've just looked up a flowchart. I don't care, it's not like it's an actual puzzle game.

There is no Misha route. For reasons that get readily explained in Shizune's route. Also reasons that make it extra horrible to get the bad end of that route.

[Tengu_temp]

Damnit Hisao, this is not what consoling someone means!

I should probably replay Katawa Shoujo at some point. I only finished Hanako's route... but it affected me a lot. This game is very good at evoking feels.

In the meantime though, I decided to watch Amagi Brilliant Park. I don't think its comedy is as good as Nozaki-kun, but it's still a pretty good show. Also I'm a sucker for stories about taking a sucky business, running it, and trying to get it back on its feet.

[Mx.Silver]

I've kept more or less up-to-date with the second series, and I haven't even seen all of the original.

Funimation have uploaded the original season to youtube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELMvwzjNR4c5A) (which you don't need to be in the USA to watch), so that's pretty easy to fix :smallwink:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Funimation have uploaded the original season to youtube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELMvwzjNR4c5A) (which you don't need to be in the USA to watch), so that's pretty easy to fix :smallwink:
I did not know this! Huzzah!

(I know, I'm a stickler on this point, but I really do like to keep my sources legal, and for the longest time there wasn't a good source for Mushi-shi.)

[BWR]

I know, I'm a stickler on this point, but I really do like to keep my sources legal

You horrible, horrible person.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Damnit Hisao, this is not what consoling someone means!

I should probably replay Katawa Shoujo at some point. I only finished Hanako's route... but it affected me a lot. This game is very good at evoking feels.

Hanako's route definitely gets darker than Lilly's (which isn't really surprising), and the ending is not as good for some of the characters in the story, and yet... I prefer the end. Maybe it's just because by the time I figured out that I didn't get the good ending to Lilly's story, I had spent two days winding down from it and a third going through Hanako's story. Maybe it's because I can relate to Hanako and Hanako's version of Hisao that much more than Lilly and Lilly's version of Hisao. I do think Hanako's act 2 cinematic is more powerful than Lilly's.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Shirou says what we've all been thinking...

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e96/Curubethion/ShinjiMaster.png

I mean, I knew that the Matous were a mage family from Fate/Zero, so maybe that gave me a leg up, but I figured it was pretty obvious that Shinji was a Master. Though not, it would seem, Rider's master, unless I'm reading it wrong. He's Caster's master, yes? Because he was talking about his Servant causing comas unprovoked. Which means that Rider's master was hanging around the school as well.

Also, Rin is tsundere some more, and we finally get to meet Caster and Assassin! Caster's spiderweb trap was super, super-cool.

I really enjoyed Archer's discussion with Shirou about the nature of Heroic Servants, even if Archer attributes too little agency to Servants. 'cause Shirou has a point. Very, very interesting to hear about Archer's character, too. He died with no unfulfilled wish? Quite interesting indeed.

Having seen Fate/Zero...
I love that Shirou is getting swordsmanship lessons from King Arthuria. And has no idea.

It was also cool to see Shirou explaining his strengthening magic, and it's a good illustration of the Nasuverse's style of magic, which a friend explained to me at length while we were watching some of the Kara no Kyoukai movies.

Can't wait to see Assassin in action; nobody expects the honorable Assassin! And if his Noble Phantasm isn't Swallow Cut, I may be a bit disappointed.

[Mx.Silver]

I did not know this! Huzzah!

(I know, I'm a stickler on this point, but I really do like to keep my sources legal, and for the longest time there wasn't a good source for Mushi-shi.)
I try to stick to legal where possible, but in terms of options for Europeans we've got a somewhat reduced version of Crunchyroll's catalogue and that's about it. Physical is the only other option, but there's also a lot of stuff that's either out of print or was never officially released here as well. The slow death of the rental market also doesn't help much either.


On a brighter note, it turns out Funimation have some of their streamed shows available on Youtube and not region locked to the US, it's just difficult to find because their channel is horrible to navigate.


The (working) shows I can find on their youtube channel are:

Air Gear (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELEbRlUNNp-_U)

Aria: The Scarlet Ammo (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELZRYwrtPpz5U)

Baccano! (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELF0YXlfdQn1E)

Bamboo Blade (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELGwcQDx_xuOU)

Birdy the Mighty: Decode (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELky6Fazy5O5Y)

Black Blood Brothers (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELj5gzTSbD2r8)

Blue Gender (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL68EF37704B0E62F7)

C3 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD7D456888D898052)

Casshern Sins (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFD81FB6AAC779814)

Chobits (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELC74sLXZvI9I)

Corpse Princess (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD51657A91704E730)

Dance in the Vampire Bund (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELlcqI0OQJVJc)

Darker than Black (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAA99435F076D77A3) (and Season 2 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC3A546AE01C92B6D))

Devil May Cry (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELGzrGI6nZgJM)

Eden of the East (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELQMqvIPXP8ec)

El Cazador de la Bruja (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELYXNU57Jx15g)

Fafner: Dead Aggressor (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELP585hvWMaDI)

Freezing (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=EL0OBBTMhm4L8)

Fullmetal Alchemist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELzyM4ujU5frc) (the first one, not Brotherhood)

Glass Fleet (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwazKLaN7rLjOwe-7n8rhnBzN4_Q-xIjc)

Haganai (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELg2FmQpR76-Q)

Hero Tales (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA388F6362B6E207A)

Heroic Age (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELsiCcPl-eJLg)

Hetalia (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELcKv4x9LmD7A)

Initial D First Stage (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELLBPz0QR3ebI)

Jinki: Extend (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=EL65wUjxm2Iao)

Jyu-Oh-Sei (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELgb_lHmKFoow)

Mongolian Chop Squad (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDCDA207E13E6FF9F)

Mushi-shi (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELMvwzjNR4c5A)

Nabari no Ou (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1D0CB277CCF7C22)

Ouran High School Host Club (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELYCdjBARsaFM)

Phantom ~ Requiem for the Phantom (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1230D57AE67E07CD)

Rideback (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL73E66FC430470DAD)

Rumbling Hearts (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELNxdsJe5XPmI)

School Rumble (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELYHRMygPJsLc) (Season 2 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5D01B6DDF9999372))

Sekirei (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELpskKRLMCqMY)

Shigurui: Death Frenzy (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELg7Ko5ccJWvg)

Shuffle! (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL326E8FACC498C64F)

Spice and Wolf (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDAD7E90412AEF3DF)

Texhnolyze (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=ELrmUroR2hqNY)

xxxHolic (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFC154666D1716682)


(this was everything I was able to find that seemed to work on my end of things - I haven't gone through every episode)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Is Steins;Gate region-locked for you?

[Hiro Protagonest]

I probably should watch Baccano!...

[Mx.Silver]

Is Steins;Gate region-locked for you?

Yes. As are a substantial number of other series not on that list.

[Terraoblivion]

Crunchyroll doesn't have a European library. It has a number of different libraries for different parts of Europe. The British Isles, the low countries and Scandinavia get almost everything the US does with some exceptions that aren't always the same between the three regions. The rest of Europe supposedly gets a lot less and it seems like the more important the dominant non-English language of a place is, the less stuff they get on Crunchyroll.

[Pronounceable]

UBW still going strong. I'm displeased about all those Saber flags though. Ufotable, stop.

I liked those quick flashing images dream thing, that was another good addition. Ufotable, continue.

Is it next week yet?
...
How about now?
...
Damn, I hate following things as they come out.

[kamikasei]

On a brighter note, it turns out Funimation have some of their streamed shows available on Youtube and not region locked to the US, it's just difficult to find because their channel is horrible to navigate.
Oh hey, thanks. I mean, on the one hand I'm cursing you because now a bunch of shows I vaguely meant to get around to watching are immediately, legally available and I feel pressure to watch them before they possibly vanish; but on the other hand, that's a handy resource!

[DoctorFaust]

On a brighter note, it turns out Funimation have some of their streamed shows available on Youtube and not region locked to the US, it's just difficult to find because their channel is horrible to navigate.

Hell yeah! The only thing that could make this better would be if they actually had the full english dub of Baccano.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So the intermittent boob humor in Magi is grating when it shows up (but is thankfully not super-frequent), and WHY IS INSTRUCTOR MEIERS DRESSED LIKE A CHAINMAIL BIKINI DOMINATRIX, but otherwise Season 1 was just fantastic and Season 2 is shaping up to be really good so far. I can't wait to see where it goes.

Also, Alibaba, you idiot. (Speaking with reference to Episode 31.)

The world continues to be fantastically vibrant, which is the thing I keep loving about the series. Also, the Big Freaking Sword character is a hilarious pastiche of the trope taken to its logical conclusion.

[Sith_Happens]

So the intermittent boob humor in Magi is grating when it shows up (but is thankfully not super-frequent), and WHY IS INSTRUCTOR MEIERS DRESSED LIKE A CHAINMAIL BIKINI DOMINATRIX

That's nothing. You know that "bird's-eye view of anime character on white bed sheet looking up at you" art trend? Not long ago Fairy Tail did slow pan-ups of those as the ending titles animation for three episodes in a row. Including one of Wendy.:smallyuk:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Shirou says what we've all been thinking...

I mean, I knew that the Matous were a mage family from Fate/Zero, so maybe that gave me a leg up, but I figured it was pretty obvious that Shinji was a Master. Though not, it would seem, Rider's master, unless I'm reading it wrong. He's Caster's master, yes? Because he was talking about his Servant causing comas unprovoked. Which means that Rider's master was hanging around the school as well.

And if his Noble Phantasm isn't Swallow Cut, I may be a bit disappointed.

Caster is not the only Servant who knocks people out en masse while draining mana.

Although you are correct; both Caster's and Rider's Masters are at the school.

Assassin does not have the Tsubame Gaeshi as a Noble Phantasm...but it's still his signature move.

This one I may have to explain in detail, but I'll wait until the show's over.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ah, thanks for the clarifications.

Also, friend of mine came over and had HD versions *cough cough* of the episodes, so I finally got to see a lot of the fights at better quality than streaming--my word, they're amazing. Blindingly fast but you can make every move out. And Lancer's Phantasm looks incredible.

Now I'm hoping I can buy Blu-Rays of this series in the near future. Unfortunately, knowing how anime licensing in the US works...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Despite being far from the worst anime this season, Shirobako continues to have that odd kind of sexism in its writing where none of the female characters, including the supposed protagonist, are allowed to have flaws in the same way the male characters are.

The result is that pairing the competent young women with older, more well rounded male characters struggling with their work makes the attempt to respect the women feel more like disrespect. The competent heroine works okay as a foil to her useless male co-worker, but that basically just means that her own role as the mover of the plot has been stolen by the male character who in theory is inferior to her in every way except for the actual amount of depth the characters are given. The heroine is sympathetic, you can feel for her exasperation of having to deal with her useless male co-worker, but she's not really interesting in her own right. Having an ensemble cast that doesn't focus on the protagonist is a good thing but having the view point character as almost entirely detached in some episodes feels off when that comparatively flat character is the only woman. I don't think swapping any of the character's genders would improve things, the higher up staff all being male is part of the realism the show is going for and the ambitious younger female cast isn't a bad story to tell, but a lot of the time it isn't the story the show is telling and the young women just feel like a tacked on concept to appeal to moe fans.

In short, the women are allowed only to be role models and wish fulfilment characters while the men are allowed to be people. I wouldn't expect anything different from a moe anime but its annoying when the show is close to being more than just a moe anime. It has a female protagonist, but really its a show about men that uses a idealised female perspective, not a show about a woman.

On a more positive note, the way office sexism is portrayed as something that the men don't realise their doing but comes off as a bad thing to the viewer is actually quite good. The heroine is strong in that she isn't beholden to the world view of her male co-workers the way she is to her male audience. Its simplistic but it at least illustrates those basic concepts without ambiguities. The heroine is actually quite a good role model (though she could complain a bit more when she has a right to, but Japan and all that. This could in theory be a character flaw but it isn't presented that way so doesn't count as one to me) its just that role models aren't that interesting. The fact that she is such an idealised character while at the same time having traits that have been seen as negative in a women is at least something.

[mallorean_thug]

I just discovered one of the most amazingly comprehensive projects I've ever seen anyone in the english aniblogosphere attempt to take on. Seriously, everybody in this thread should go read through everything on this site (https://camonte.wordpress.com/), and then bookmark it to catch more stuff as he continues to add to it.

[Terraoblivion]

Eh, seems like a less insane exercise in being comprehensive than the project to translate every single Touhou doujin out there. Tens of thousands of them are made every year.

Also, quite honestly, that blog is incredibly dry. Sure, there is useful information about them there, but it's essentially encyclopedia entries which isn't exactly a genre known for being stimulating reading. It also seems to have a distinct sense of a mission to tell us that all of these people are great, more than really imparting understanding. I get a lot of facts and listings of elements of their style, but the single picture providing an example of their work is honestly more illuminating for me than all the words. So, sure, points for effort, but I can't say I find it either particularly interesting or useful.

[Pronounceable]

ufotable is great and all, but those sidemouths are so damn obnoxious. I am sad such a pointless thing can bother me.
http://s3.auengine.com/thumb/jYKHxPnV_b.png
What kind of face is that? If they weren't drawing everything else so well this wouldn't even be an issue.
Well, there's also Saber's hair rotor but I can't possibly object to that after Carnival Phantasm.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah it is kind of weird with how lovingly they animate everything else that they go with cheekmouth on the characters.

At least the faces overall look less weird than in Zero, but Zero had a lot less in terms of source images, I guess.

[Terraoblivion]

Zero was also an all-around lesser artistic effort, so it isn't really surprising anyway.

[Mx.Silver]

So, I'm beginning to think that this series of Mushi-shi might actually be better than the 2005 series. That is not a statement you get to make very often.

INO I've also been revisiting Fullmetal Alchemist, which I haven't seen since 2005. It's holding up very well, so far, as is my assessment back then that it hits its high-point towards slightly after the halfway mark. Since this is also the point where it left the manga behind, I can't help wondering what this might mean for Brotherhood, if I ever end-up watching it.


Hell yeah! The only thing that could make this better would be if they actually had the full english dub of Baccano.

I imagine they'd rather try and recoup the dubbing costs with DVD sales.

[Hiro Protagonest]

INO I've also been revisiting Fullmetal Alchemist, which I haven't seen since 2005. It's holding up very well, so far, as is my assessment back then that it hits its high-point towards slightly after the halfway mark. Since this is also the point where it left the manga behind, I can't help wondering what this might mean for Brotherhood, if I ever end-up watching it.

The 2003 series is widely considered either good all the way through, or good up until the last two episodes, so you should also find Brotherhood good since that's lauded by the same audience.

I won't get into the gothic vs shonen argument, but both series really start picking up when it gets to that point where the focus shifts to the grander picture.

[Hazzardevil]

I personally believe that Brotherhood has a better ending, making a lot more sense than the original FMA's ending.

[HMS Invincible]

I personally believe that Brotherhood has a better ending, making a lot more sense than the original FMA's ending.

YOu have it backwards. Brotherhood is the original ending, isn't it? The first FMA had to come up with an anime original because the manga wasn't done yet.

[Hiro Protagonest]

YOu have it backwards. Brotherhood is the original ending, isn't it? The first FMA had to come up with an anime original because the manga wasn't done yet.

He obviously meant the original anime, but that could have been worded more clearly.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Speaking of Fate/stay night, looks like the buildup phase is over--or at least, the buildup is happening aside of the normal action. I'm a fan of that.

[Terraoblivion]

Now if just Shirou would keep acting like Cirno (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cirno) all would be good. Having him act incredibly immature while Archer saved his life was amusing.

[DoctorFaust]

Having just recently re-watched Zero, it's kind of weird just how similar Archer's morals are to Kiritsugu's.

[Mx.Silver]

The 2003 series is widely considered either good all the way through, or good up until the last two episodes, so you should also find Brotherhood good since that's lauded by the same audience.

I won't get into the gothic vs shonen argument, but both series really start picking up when it gets to that point where the focus shifts to the grander picture.

I've found that 'the same audience' tends not to be too helpful when it comes to the individual, since no one fully conforms to generalisation. Certainly in regards to my own experience, anyway.
Consider that 'just after the midpoint' in the first series is also the point in the first series where it becomes clear where the series is going tonally and thematically. Which, as you 'gothic vs shonen' comment would indicate' is a different direction than the one taken in Brotherhood.

(Incidentally, this is one reason why I dislike the 'watch 1-2 seasons of the first series then jump to Brotherhood' recommendations. Not only is it missing the best parts of the first series, it also misses the aspects it has that Brotherhood doesn't - aspects that some one might find more interesting).



I personally believe that Brotherhood has a better ending, making a lot more sense than the original FMA's ending.

I don't actually remember finding the original ending confusing, nor bad. In fact it's never quite sat well with me that the original was cited as being one of the 'good series with bad endings' shows. Then again I seem to have an atypical metric for what constitutes confusing. We'll see when I get up to it again.


You have it backwards. Brotherhood is the original ending, isn't it? The first FMA had to come up with an anime original because the manga wasn't done yet.

One could argue that since Brotherhood's ending was simply an adaptation of the pre-existing manga ending then of the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist'd is 'the original' one. One could technically still get away with calling it the original ending even if you're including the manga, since it predates the manga's ending by about six years.

Isn't language fun? :smalltongue:


(not that it matters, since if someone is talking about 'the original FMA' in contrast to Brotherhood it should be pretty obvious that they're referring to the first anime series).

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've found that 'the same audience' tends not to be too helpful when it comes to the individual, since no one fully conforms to generalisation. Certainly in regards to my own experience, anyway.
Consider that 'just after the midpoint' in the first series is also the point in the first series where it becomes clear where the series is going tonally and thematically. Which, as you 'gothic vs shonen' comment would indicate' is a different direction than the one taken in Brotherhood.

Well it's not that it doesn't get darker, it's just that there is more fighting. There still isn't really any of the "power up by yelling" stuff or anything like that (this is why I didn't want to get into this argument :smallannoyed:). The conspiracy goes even deeper in Brotherhood, whereas in the original it was
to keep a constant state of civil unrest to occasionally create powerful enough philosopher's stones to extend the villain's lifespan indefinitely, which wasn't going to work forever as noted by Hohenheim., plus there's actually a key plot point of the original (manga) story that gets foreshadowed early on, but isn't used in the 2003 anime (I wasn't perceptive enough to notice it, but others were).

[Pronounceable]

Having just recently re-watched Zero, it's kind of weird just how similar Archer's morals are to Kiritsugu's.
Kiritsugu was a much bigger ******* about it. Then again we're only a quarter way in, maybe Aacha will prove to be even worse.

Also sneering at all the harebrained internet people who spout bull about how Kiritsugu was so much maturer and cynicaler and smarter and awesomer and darker and herpaderp than Shirou has become my favorite pastime since UBW started. His manchildhood was at least four times larger than Shirou's, did these duckbilled muppets grow up on 90s comicbooks?

[Sith_Happens]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: The Code Geass DVDs change all the Pizza Hut boxes to "Cheese-kun." This makes me sad.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Kiritsugu was a much bigger ******* about it. Then again we're only a quarter way in, maybe Aacha will prove to be even worse.

Also sneering at all the harebrained internet people who spout bull about how Kiritsugu was so much maturer and cynicaler and smarter and awesomer and darker and herpaderp than Shirou has become my favorite pastime since UBW started. His manchildhood was at least four times larger than Shirou's, did these duckbilled muppets grow up on 90s comicbooks?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: a lot of people assume that the measure of a man's worth, at least in fiction, is how many "bad guys" he kills, or in some cases how utterly indifferent he is to it. It's why brainless action movies and shows about crimes against humanity like 24 are so popular. The sad thing is that this is an even more moronically atavistic and childish outlook than Kiritsugu Emiya's.


AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: The Code Geass DVDs change all the Pizza Hut boxes to "Cheese-kun." This makes me sad.

No pay, no play. Pizza Hut probably wasn't willing to pay extra to continue the product placement deal, and Sunrise doesn't give handouts, no matter how funny they might be.

[Sith_Happens]

No pay, no play. Pizza Hut probably wasn't willing to pay extra to continue the product placement deal, and Sunrise doesn't give handouts, no matter how funny they might be.

You'd think that both of them would have wanted to work the video release into the first deal though.

[DoctorFaust]

Kiritsugu was a much bigger ******* about it. Then again we're only a quarter way in, maybe Aacha will prove to be even worse.

Also sneering at all the harebrained internet people who spout bull about how Kiritsugu was so much maturer and cynicaler and smarter and awesomer and darker and herpaderp than Shirou has become my favorite pastime since UBW started. His manchildhood was at least four times larger than Shirou's, did these duckbilled muppets grow up on 90s comicbooks?

To be fair to those people, Kiritsugu is in fact waaaaaayyyyyy more cynical than Shirou, and Shirou has done a more than a few things that almost end up killing him, or just seem kinda stupid or childish. For instance, running after Purple-hair, which I know he did with heroic intentions (and I'm well aware that's terribly phrased, but I can't think of any better way to put it), or quotes like this (http://i.imgur.com/djfwggA.jpg). Also, why sneering?

And I suppose I should qualify my previous statements by saying that as of now, I do prefer Kiritsugu to Shirou, despite all of Kiri's dickery. Maybe it's because I'm not a big fan of MC's with chronic hero syndrome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChronicHeroSyndrome), or because I generally enjoy more serious shows in the action genre, and so far, UBW seems to be significantly lighter than Zero, or because I enjoy the interactions between cynical people and idealists, or possibly even just because I like the Urobutcher's writing more than Nasu's.

[Terraoblivion]

Personally I can't really be bothered to try to rank who wins the awful character Olympics between Shirou and Kiritsugu. They're both absolutely awful characters who are as stimulating to watch as paint drying. Literally the best thing either of them did was Shirou's undignified whining in the latest episode of the UBW anime because it was funny and showed an awareness of just how pathetic he really is. The series would have worked considerably better if Fate/Zero had been about Saber and Irisviel, iethe two characters connected to the central narrative thrust who had good chemistry and clearly liked each other, and if F/SN had just had Rin summon Saber. Less narrative clutter too.

[Lateral]

Also sneering at all the harebrained internet people who spout bull about how Kiritsugu was so much maturer and cynicaler and smarter and awesomer and darker and herpaderp than Shirou has become my favorite pastime since UBW started. His manchildhood was at least four times larger than Shirou's, did these duckbilled muppets grow up on 90s comicbooks?
Yeah, and besides, Shirou's what, sixteen? Kiritsugu was a father.

Although I have to say, I still think Kiritsugu's moral ambiguity worked to Zero's advantage, even if his philosophy was pretty laughable. I mean, the only reason he was the protagonist was because everyone else was so much worse. (I mean, except Waver Velvet. And Kariya. And Tohsaka, come to think of it. So that actually puts Kiritsugu right in the middle. Still, he's way less evil than Kirei, not to mention friggin' Caster.) The problem I had with Shirou is just that he started out as such a bland shonen protagonist, although I think we've been getting enough character explication that that's not as much of an issue. Tohsaka's still way too tsundere for my taste, though.

Besides, Fate/Zero wasn't even really about Kiritsugu. This is all Shirou, all the time. Heck, based on the first episode I was hoping we'd get some of it from Tohsaka's point of view.

[Pronounceable]

^^^So long as you don't prefer Kerry because he was so much edgier and darker and maturer, you're in the clear.

Shirou is a very strange character as a VN dude who stars in three completely different mutually exclusive stories. He's awesomeness incarnate in total but that awesomeness doesn't exist within any one story. He starts out as just a silly highschool kid who wants to be a hero, whereas Kiritsugu at FZ is a giant manchild who spent all his life being a raging murderous **** to "make up" for one "mistake". There's no competition in that olympic.

Also Shirou is an actual protagonist, everything is about him and his character. Kerry was just one static card in a static deck. FSN and FZ don't really have all that much to do with each other. FZ is an ensemble affair with mostly shallow and usually cool characters, FSN is all about measuring the deepness of Shirou's character rabbit holes.

Also also FSN is better because Shirou is the best character ever in the history of Japanese porn.

The series would have worked considerably better if Fate/Zero had been about Saber and Irisviel, iethe two characters connected to the central narrative thrust who had good chemistry and clearly liked each other
But then there'd be two women as main characters and that just won't do.

[DoctorFaust]

Okay, question, how would you define manchild?

On a slightly less argumentative note, Railgun is pretty impressive so far. I'm liking Biribiri and Uihara quite a lot.

[Pronounceable]

Okay, question, how would you define manchild?
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gLlBv_SrZw) except an adult.

[DoctorFaust]

So, having a sense of entitlement, sort of? It might just be my interpretation of the character, but I don't feel like Kiritsugu was like that. If anything, Waver or Kayneth would be the ones I would call a manchild.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Kiritsugu is less a character and more an author avatar to point out the facile nature of "ideal heroism" who, thankfully, gets his own equally-immature and far more destructive philosophy thrown back in his face in the end, just to show you that as much as Gen Urobuchi loves the grimdark, he's aware that it's a bit dumb.

Shirou, meanwhile, actually gets a character arc, but only if you actually sit through all three routes of an extremely dense visual novel. One route to set up the situation, one to analyze it, and the final one to provide one possible answer (rejecting "ideal heroism" in favor of pursuit of individual happiness for one person).

Another point of difference is how Fate/Zero and F/SN are written: both have a lot to say on their subject matter, and they have two distinct strategies. Fate/Zero is fundamentally an ensemble show, spreading its POV and attention across several different people (although mostly angsty Japanese men and one white dude). This does mean that most of the characters have flat arcs, barring the one traditional protagonist, Waver Velvet, who's a fan favorite because he actually has some development. Fate/Stay Night, meanwhile, focuses on one protagonist in varying situations, and he does get a reasonable amount of character development...but again, only halfway through the whole shebang, at the earliest.

Basically, both of them are there to analyze the Ideal Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdealHero) archetype, from two different sides - Kiritsugu explicitly rejects it and fails, and Shirou is forced to question it throughout before rejecting it and eventually succeeding. Both of them are also tits. Shirou kind of gets better, though. A bit. In one route.

[Pronounceable]

So, having a sense of entitlement, sort of?
It's more throwing a bitchfit when things aren't as they want, but you could say it's caused by an underlying entitlement to being right. It's the bitchfit that fits Kerry: he spends all his life as a murderous jackass because he once failed kill when it would've done some real good. Then FZ closes with just saying he changed in the end guys. Waver also started out trying to show his teacher up but he got himself some development, he's loved because he's the only FZ character that actually gets an arc. Kayneth was some random smug, he wasn't really raging against anything (if he's disagreeable, it's because he's excessively neat: his whole situation fits too seamlessly into an almost exact rendition of Diarmuid's legend, apparently they were out of subtlety after Kariya-Berserker parallels).

Shirou is much more benign. He wants to be a hero and is acting as if he's a badass, but he can't walk the walk. Fate is bad because this works and narrative bends over backwards to enable his idiocy, not because DEEN was a terrible studio (DEEN did screw the pooch but most fault lies with author). UBW's been beating some sense into him, which is why it's the best route for animation. He's gonna start his arc one of these weeks.

[DoctorFaust]

It's more throwing a bitchfit when things aren't as they want, but you could say it's caused by an underlying entitlement to being right. It's the bitchfit that fits Kerry: he spends all his life as a murderous jackass because he once failed kill when it would've done some real good. Then FZ closes with just saying he changed in the end guys.

When does Kiritsugu throw a bitchfit? (I do agree about him being murderous for the most part, but I really can't help but like his interactions with his daughter and wife). And the entire point of his character is that he kills for the good of others, sacrificing the many to save the few. It really seems like every time that he is shown killing in the series, he does good, even if it is through an action many would consider to be evil.


His teacher: The plane she's on is full of Dead Apostates, I think is the term, and if it lands and even one gets loose, a lot of people would die. Him destroying the plane stops that possibility.
His dad: Stops the research, albeit way too late to save anyone on the island.
All his time spent as a mercenary: I'm pretty sure that there's actually a line to the affect that "he shows up where the fighting is worst, and fights to put an end to it"
KFC: Honestly, the best justification that I can come up with for this is that the Holy Grail War is one giant incident of collateral damage waiting to happen, and getting rid of the Masters is the quickest way of ending it.
Ryuunosuke: He's a ****ing serial killer that summoned a serial killer that wants to kill and eat all of Fuyuki. What excuse does he need for killing him?
The manifestations of his wife and child: If he doesn't escape from the Grail, it'll grant his wish. By killing everyone on the planet but him and Illya, and bring back Iri to be with them. He is not willing to sacrifice the many for the needs of the few.


I would really just say that he has very strong morals, and he is willing to go to extreme lengths for them. The changing of his ideals at the end was one of the most tragic parts of Zero to me, since it really does show how broken he was by the Holy Grail War, and what getting to the Grail cost him.


Kayneth was some random smug, he wasn't really raging against anything (if he's disagreeable, it's because he's excessively neat: his whole situation fits too seamlessly into an almost exact rendition of Diarmuid's legend.

Who's the Grainne to Kayneth's Diarmuid? Because while he might be married to the girl, he sure as hell doesn't get her like Diarmuid gets Grainne. Moreover, who's the Fionn? He has no leige to betray, no geas to break, nothing to run from, no dispute that ends up being mediated, and besides the fairly tenuous parallels you could draw between Diarmuid's final hunt and Kayneth's death, the only similarities between Kayneth and Diarmuid that I see are that they're both from Great Britain and are married.


Apparently they were out of subtlety after Kariya-Berserker parallels.

From either a thematic or a literal standpoint, Kariya has almost nothing in common with Lancelot. There is no equivalent Arthur, Galahad, Lionel, Bors, or Elaine, and the character that could be called his Guinevere has about as much in common as Maiya does with the boar in the Pursuit of Diarmuid and Grainne, and Kariya's story only ends the same as Lancelot's in that they both die. I suppose you could argue that Sakura is his Holy Grail, though it would be more appropriate to say that the Holy Grail is his Holy Grail, and the journey that Lancelot and Kariya take to get to their Holy Grail are very different ones.


He's gonna start his arc one of these weeks.

So, what, a third of the series is done and his character arc hasn't even started yet? Some would call that crappy writing.

[HMS Invincible]

That's the problem and greatness of exactingly animating a VN. The anime is matching the pace of the novel. So if you hate the pacing its the VN fault. I'm a fanboy so I ignore shirou and wait for rin and archer to show up.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So, what, a third of the series is done and his character arc hasn't even started yet? Some would call that crappy writing.

No one has ever accused a Type-Moon property of good writing. (For comparison, Fate/Zero went over a season without even presenting enough of Kiritsugu's personality to guess his motivations, let alone develop any character).

As for the problem with Kiritsugu, for me it's how very, very self-centered and ossified his "ideals" are. He's a Superhero, therefore anyone he kills is either a villain or a ~tragic casualty~ that only reinforces his worldview. He treats everyone around him like crap because of his Painful Duty. He is literally called out in-show as having absolutely no idea how to solve a problem with anything other than murder, and he is completely unable to change that - in the end, after destroying the Grail, he just gives up. He's a tragic character, alright, but the tragedy is in how he let his childhood trauma turn him into a one-dimensional killing machine instead of a human being. It's not a terribly compelling thing to watch.

Also, I was thinking last night about Terra's comments about a Rin/Saber team as the protagonists for Fate/Stay Night, leaving out Shirou's plot entirely. I have to wonder how the theme would work there; maybe contrasting Rin's attempt at absolute cynicism to Saber's attempt at absolute idealism, and showing how both of them struggle to suppress and eventually accept human emotions?


EDIT: and I think cnsvnc was referring to Diarmuid's situation as a Servant paralleling his legend, with Kayneth playing the role of Fionn and Sola-Ui playing the role of Grainne.

[Terraoblivion]

On a slightly less argumentative note, Railgun is pretty impressive so far. I'm liking Biribiri and Uihara quite a lot.

It is. Basically it's a show with only one significant problem, which is how Kuroko treats Misaka and even that isn't consistent as there are lots of scenes of her being a dedicated, understanding friend. Other than that it's a beautiful, beautifully directed show about interesting, likable characters that manages all three sides, slice of life, investigative thriller and action, well and balances them well against each other. Also, you still haven't met the character who I think is my favorite yet since they don't show up until the second season. Also, Saten is great, especially as time goes on to give her more focus and attention.

[DoctorFaust]

No one has ever accused a Type-Moon property of good writing.

I would. Hell, even going back as far as Angel Notes or Kara no Kyoukai, I think they tell pretty good stories. EDIT: I realized I was kind of making my point badly here. It seems that a lot of the criticisms against Zero have been that the characters are flat (or just bad), and fairly static throughout, and that Stay Night is better because the characters are more dynamic. Would that be fair to say?

Well, we're almost done with the first cour of Unlimited Blade Works, and there has been basically NO character development. At all. TWO, out of SEVEN, of the Servants have gotten screen time enough for them to actually have even the beginnings of a character, Shirou is still your basic idiotic hero protagonist, as far as I can tell, Rin's only defining character trait is that she's a tsundere, and all in all, the characters seem much less developed than they were at this point in Zero. Hell, even Gurren Lagann, which has a pretty weak plot if you really think about it, had better paced character development. And this is coming from someone who enjoys both Zero and UBW


Also, I was thinking last night about Terra's comments about a Rin/Saber team as the protagonists for Fate/Stay Night, leaving out Shirou's plot entirely. I have to wonder how the theme would work there; maybe contrasting Rin's attempt at absolute cynicism to Saber's attempt at absolute idealism, and showing how both of them struggle to suppress and eventually accept human emotions?

I have no idea what this comment is about, so I'm just going to assume it's spoilers and ignore it.


EDIT: and I think cnsvnc was referring to Diarmuid's situation as a Servant paralleling his legend, with Kayneth playing the role of Fionn and Sola-Ui playing the role of Grainne.

I suppose there are a few more parallels that could be drawn if you look at it like that, especially between his death and Episode 16, but I think Kayneth and Sola-Ui fit badly into either of those roles. Well, actually, on a very basic level, I suppose they do kind of, since Kayneth ends up betraying him to his death, and Sola-Ui's love is the cause of his downfall, but those are fairly common tropes in media. But then again, on a very basic level, every single story about star-crossed lovers is the same.


It is. Basically it's a show with only one significant problem, which is how Kuroko treats Misaka and even that isn't consistent as there are lots of scenes of her being a dedicated, understanding friend. Other than that it's a beautiful, beautifully directed show about interesting, likable characters that manages all three sides, slice of life, investigative thriller and action, well and balances them well against each other. Also, you still haven't met the character who I think is my favorite yet since they don't show up until the second season. Also, Saten is great, especially as time goes on to give her more focus and attention.

I'm assuming you're either talking about Accelerator or Last Order. Considering they're the reason that I started watching it, I too am looking forward to their appearance.

[deuterio12]

As for the problem with Kiritsugu, for me it's how very, very self-centered and ossified his "ideals" are. He's a Superhero, therefore anyone he kills is either a villain or a ~tragic casualty~ that only reinforces his worldview. He treats everyone around him like crap because of his Painful Duty. He is literally called out in-show as having absolutely no idea how to solve a problem with anything other than murder, and he is completely unable to change that - in the end, after destroying the Grail, he just gives up. He's a tragic character, alright, but the tragedy is in how he let his childhood trauma turn him into a one-dimensional killing machine instead of a human being. It's not a terribly compelling thing to watch.

Kiritsugu doesn't give up. He recovers his humanity by finding an orphan child in the mid of the destruction he unleashed, rescuing them, and raising them as his own child. Without killing anybody else. Settling down to start a family is probably the most human thing you can do.

And now I want to watch "Fate/Stay Night: Dad Kiritsugu".

Kiritsugu:Ok son, this is how you make Miso soup.
Shirou: Why are there five loaded machine guns in the middle of the ingredients, father?
Kiritsugu: Ah...Eerr... Well...
Shirou: Just put away those things and let me handle the cooking.


And that's how Shirou became such a good chef.:smallbiggrin:



Also, I was thinking last night about Terra's comments about a Rin/Saber team as the protagonists for Fate/Stay Night, leaving out Shirou's plot entirely. I have to wonder how the theme would work there; maybe contrasting Rin's attempt at absolute cynicism to Saber's attempt at absolute idealism, and showing how both of them struggle to suppress and eventually accept human emotions?


Or lesbian route. Saber was married to a woman after all back in her day. And considering Artur's legend, Saber somehow got another woman pregnant, leading to Mordred's birth.

We all know that Rin's cynism is mostly because while despite all her hard work, she got a cynic Archer who can't kill anything at range, Shiro the noob mage somehow got the hawt bimbo that's also the strongest hero as his personal servant. I'm sure Rin's personality would be a lot different if she got Saber as her partner. :smalltongue:

[Nerd-o-rama]

I would. Hell, even going back as far as Angel Notes or Kara no Kyoukai, I think they tell pretty good stories. EDIT: I realized I was kind of making my point badly here. It seems that a lot of the criticisms against Zero have been that the characters are flat (or just bad), and fairly static throughout, and that Stay Night is better because the characters are more dynamic. Would that be fair to say?

Well, we're almost done with the first cour of Unlimited Blade Works, and there has been basically NO character development. At all. TWO, out of SEVEN, of the Servants have gotten screen time enough for them to actually have even the beginnings of a character, Shirou is still your basic idiotic hero protagonist, as far as I can tell, Rin's only defining character trait is that she's a tsundere, and all in all, the characters seem much less developed than they were at this point in Zero. Hell, even Gurren Lagann, which has a pretty weak plot if you really think about it, had better paced character development. And this is coming from someone who enjoys both Zero and UBW


I honestly remember exactly two characters in Fate/Zero who grew or changed in any way before the last episode - Waver and Kirei - or three if you count the "how he got to be this way" backstory on Kiritsugu, which I don't, since I consider character exposition different from character development.

Also, a cour is 12-14 episodes, so we're only halfway through the first one. I will admit, it's pretty much all been character exposition (Shirou's demeanor and hints at reasons for it, Rin's conflicted attitude toward fighting to kill, Archer's...Archerness, etc.) and fights. I'm coming from the perspective that both shows are pretty terrible at characterization, though. My only point is that Shirou and Kiritsugu are developed at very different paces, not that one's a better character than the other, or one's a better story than the other.


Kiritsugu doesn't give up. He recovers his humanity by finding an orphan child in the mid of the destruction he unleashed, rescuing them, and raising them as his own child. Without killing anybody else. Settling down to start a family is probably the most human thing you can do.

And now I want to watch "Fate/Stay Night: Dad Kiritsugu".

Kiritsugu:Ok son, this is how you make Miso soup.
Shirou: Why are there five loaded machine guns in the middle of the ingredients, father?
Kiritsugu: Ah...Eerr... Well...
Shirou: Just put away those things and let me handle the cooking.


And that's how Shirou became such a good chef.:smallbiggrin:

The parts of Prisma Ilya that aren't disturbing loli fanservice or sparkly magical girl battles are apparently this. I wouldn't mind an interquel starring these two idiots though.

And you do have a point, I just mean that Kiritsugu abandons his ideals entirely and takes only the first small step in rectifying the horror his moral shortsightedness helped unleash. But at least it was a first step.


Or lesbian route. Saber was married to a woman after all back in her day. And considering Artur's legend, Saber somehow got another woman pregnant, leading to Mordred's birth.

We all know that Rin's cynism is mostly because while despite all her hard work, she got a cynic Archer who can't kill anything at range, Shiro the noob mage somehow got the hawt bimbo that's also the strongest hero as his personal servant. I'm sure Rin's personality would be a lot different if she got Saber as her partner. :smalltongue:

From what I've heard of supplementary material and Fate/Apocrypha, Saber was magically turned physically male for the duration of her kingship. Her relationship with Guinevere was mostly celibate, and Mordred was actually a homunculus/clone rather than a natural born child, which is why Saber of Red is female and has a huge complex about it, since he/she thinks he/she is a failed copy.

And Rin's entire deal (also addressing DoctorFaust here, since he dismissed Rin as a flat tsundere) is that she wants to be a perfectly cold-blooded ambitious mage like Daddy appears to have been, but she can't. She cares too much about "innocent" people, including people who are too dumb to not be innocent, to manage it. That's the core of her character conflict right there, and her arc in every route (UBW particularly) is her coming to grips with the fact that she's a human who cares about people. I could mark this spoilers, but really, it's pretty apparent from her conflicted actions toward Shirou already.

(There's also other motivations behind her wanting to protect the moron, but they're only hinted at in this particular adaptation so I'll leave them to the imagination for now.)

[Pronounceable]

Whee, wall of quotes:


When does Kiritsugu throw a bitchfit?
His whole life is a bitchfit. He spent all his life in that shed, killing that girl over and over. Except he was a grown ass dude out and about in the world and none of the people he killed could save the village. He only noticed he wasn't in the shed anymore when Grail mashed his stupidity right in his face.

Kayneth
Kayneth is the lord whose fiancee/wife was "seduced" by Diarmuid. Team Lancer played out a close adaptation of Diarmuid's legend. Sure it's not that exact but I' prone to exaggeration as everyone on the internet. Making parallels to original legends is a cool idea but it was done heavy handedly.

Kariya
Kariya is a worse version of the legend. He wanted another guy's wife too but unlike Berserker, he was a Nice Guy who never meant much for the woman in question, yet ruined her life with his whiteknight complex. It's inspired from legend, not mirroring it like Team Lancer, so I consider it subtlety.

No one has ever accused a Type-Moon property of good writing.
Typemoon (Nasu) is very good at writing though. He's not great and has some blind spots, such as his utter inability to refrain from vomiting pages upon pages of magicbabble, but Far Side routes of Tsukihime is objective proof that the dude can write. Fate franchise is his most incompetent work that somehow became the most famous.

As for the problem with Kiritsugu, for me it's how very, very self-centered and ossified his "ideals" are. He's a Superhero, therefore anyone he kills is either a villain or a ~tragic casualty~ that only reinforces his worldview.
There's that too. Kerry is working too hard to paint himself as "the hard man making the hard choices", despite just being a murderous jackass. It's pure 90s comicbook crap.

Also, I was thinking last night about Terra's comments about a Rin/Saber team as the protagonists for Fate/Stay Night, leaving out Shirou's plot entirely.
That could work. But Rin can't develop as dramatically as Shirou, she's not immature enough.

Well, we're almost done with the first cour of Unlimited Blade Works, and there has been basically NO character development. At all.
It just passed the quarter mark.

It seems that a lot of the criticisms against Zero have been that the characters are flat (or just bad), and fairly static throughout, and that Stay Night is better because the characters are more dynamic.
Yes. Also FZ is a derivative work written by another author, one who seems a bit too fond of grimderp, built from scratch to reach a predetermined ending. It's above average, far as prequels go.

And considering Artur's legend, Saber somehow got another woman pregnant, leading to Mordred's birth.
Let's not pay attention to that.

And now I want to watch "Fate/Stay Night: Dad Kiritsugu".
-No Shirou, you can't go see Avengers.
-But daaad, everyone is going.
-No means no.

The parts of Prisma Ilya that aren't disturbing loli fanservice or sparkly magical girl battles are apparently this. I wouldn't mind an interquel starring these two idiots though.
It had some awesome action scenes but they didn't justify the crap. Has best rendition of Emiya theme though, they got that going for them.

Saber's Backstory and Fate/Apocrypha spoilers
I said let's not pay attention to that.

And Rin's entire deal is that she wants to be a perfectly cold-blooded ambitious mage like Daddy appears to have been, but she can't.
That's not too clear without all the inner monologues so we can't blame the filthy casuals (too much).

[DoctorFaust]

'Nother wall of quotes, yaaay.


Also addressing DoctorFaust here, since he dismissed Rin as a flat tsundere.
I'm dismissing her as a flat tsundere because so far, she is a flat tsundere. Her actions thus far can be summed up as alternatively trying to kill Shirou and and denying that she likes him.


His whole life is a bitchfit. He spent all his life in that shed, killing that girl over and over. Except he was a grown ass dude out and about in the world and none of the people he killed could save the village. He only noticed he wasn't in the shed anymore when Grail mashed his stupidity right in his face.
Okay, it's very obvious that we have very different interpretations and opinions about him. I enjoyed his character because of many of the things you are citing as bad things about him, so let's just chalk it up to subjectivity, neh?


Kayneth is the lord whose fiancee/wife was "seduced" by Diarmuid. Team Lancer played out a close adaptation of Diarmuid's legend. Sure it's not that exact but I' prone to exaggeration as everyone on the internet. Making parallels to original legends is a cool idea but it was done heavy handedly.
By that reasoning, KFC's arc is also ripped from Romeo and Juliet almost exactly.


Kariya is a worse version of the legend. He wanted another guy's wife too but unlike Berserker, he was a Nice Guy who never meant much for the woman in question, yet ruined her life with his whiteknight complex. It's inspired from legend, not mirroring it like Team Lancer, so I consider it subtlety.
If you rip out every single thing about Lancelot and replace it with jackassery, yeah, Kariya is totally a worse version of Lancelot. Except for the not being deemed worthy of the Grail part. Or having reached the Grail. Or having "cheated" on his Guinevere. Or, well, everything that happens to Lanelot in the legends, besides going crazy when he was rejected.


It just passed the quarter mark.
A third of the whole anime is now over, and there are four, maybe five, episodes left in this cour, or season, or UBW. Regardless, I feel like correcting my math isn't a very good argument against Stay Night, or at least Unlimited Blade Works, having as **** of character development as you claim Zero does.


Yes. Also FZ is a derivative work written by another author, one who seems a bit too fond of grimderp, built from scratch to reach a predetermined ending. It's above average, far as prequels go.
Again, I like Urobuchi's writing, so let's just chalk this up to a difference of opinion.


Let's not pay attention to that.

I said let's not pay attention to that.
So because we don't like something, we get to pretend it's not part of canon anymore?


That's not too clear without all the inner monologues so we can't blame the filthy casuals (too much).
So because some people haven't gone out of their way to watch, read, and play every goddamn thing related to Fate, their opinions about this adaptation are invalid now?

And speaking of Fate, some hijo de puta on Reddit decided that it would be fun to spoil Archer's identity for me, and since I really am coming to dislike Shirou, I'm considering dropping UBW. Best girl be damned, I do not want to put up with Shirou's idiocy for another 16 episodes only for him to end up turning into Archer.

[Sallera]

Archer is (effectively) Fate Shirou, not UBW Shirou. While this isn't exactly a good thing for him, there are significant differences in what kind of people they end up as.



That's not too clear without all the inner monologues so we can't blame the filthy casuals (too much).
So because some people haven't gone out of their way to watch, read, and play every goddamn thing related to Fate, their opinions about this adaptation are invalid now?
I'm, uh, pretty sure that's the opposite of what cnsvnc was implying, i.e. no, the adaptations don't make it that clear, so one shouldn't assume it's apparent to first-time viewers.