Preventing True Resurrection/Wish.

[Yael]

Is there any way to prevent a being from being brought back to life from a spell like True Resurrection or a Wish spell (mimicking a True Resurrection), or any variant?

[Zanos]

You could hit them with age curses and/or stick them in a fast time demiplane until they die from old age.

I believe the soul has to be free, even for true Resurrection, so trap the soul/soul bind/turning them into an undead should still do it.

[Yael]

You could hit them with age curses and/or stick them in a fast time demiplane until they die from old age.

I believe the soul has to be free, even for true Resurrection, so trap the soul/soul bind/turning them into an undead should still do it.

Why turning it into an undead should stop it?
Maybe the body is awoke, but is the soul binded into it? Also, True Resurrection doesn't need a body part, right?

[dethkruzer]

Aging them to death would be a permanent solution, but not necessarily time efficient.

Imprisoning the soul can be undone, but is much quicker to do.

You could try to destroy the soul, although that is some really evil shiz.

[Andion Isurand]

barghest's feast (SpC 24)

consumes the touched corpse of a dead creature, with a 50% chance that mortal magic cannot bring that creature back to life

[Zanos]

Why turning it into an undead should stop it?
Maybe the body is awoke, but is the soul binded into it? Also, True Resurrection doesn't need a body part, right?
True Resurrection can only resurrect creatures that have been turned into an undead and then destroyed. I don't know why.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Flesh to Stone/Salt and Imprisonment also prevents resurrection since the target isn't technically dead.

[Garktz]

Flesh to Stone/Salt and Imprisonment also prevents resurrection since the target isn't technically dead.

Even better is Flesh to Salt, pick salt up, throw salt in river/ocean/sea

Is not dead, just has become salt and, how do you target "salt from ocean" with a spell?

[Alleran]

Necrotic Termination permanently destroys the soul of the target if they fail their saving throw.

"If the subject fails her saving throw, the cyst expands beyond control, killing the subject and digesting her soul. Raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish, and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested—she is gone forever."

It is, of course, classed as an evil act.

[sideswipe]

my favourite spell in the whole game

unname (http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-of-magic--89/unname--3448/)

your permanently delete the creatures coding from existence and they are gone until they have a big ritual to re-write the code so they can exist again.
thats how i have always thought of it.

[The Insanity]

The dead guy doesn't want to come back.

[Oracle_of_Void]

Stab the person casting it to interrupt the casting.

Can you counter-spell wish/resurrection? I think so....

Throw a field of anti-magic of the caster before they finish the spell.

[Brookshw]

Voidstone/Sphere of Annihilation, if you port in the negative energy plane properties from planescape anything that dies from the plane's draining traits can't be brought back by anything (which would include direct deity intervention though they could make a new copy).

[The Viscount]

You could always have them be eaten by an actual barghest to save you the xp, then have a caster attempt to raise them. If it succeeds, try again to ensure it fails.

For the sake of completeness, if you can somehow get them killed by a death giant, then store the death giant safely away, that will also do it.

[deuxhero]

Flesh to Stone, Rock to Mud and Purify Food and Drink doesn't kill the target, but they are really gone. Wish is open ended it COULD bring back the statue, but that's not on the RAW effects.

The only RAW effects I know of that 100% stop resurrection are mentioned above: Old age death and not wanting to come back.


The dead guy doesn't want to come back.

Can that spell from BoVD can make them not want to come back?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Flesh to Stone, Rock to Mud and Purify Food and Drink doesn't kill the target, but they are really gone. Wish is open ended it COULD bring back the statue, but that's not on the RAW effects.

The only RAW effects I know of that 100% stop resurrection are mentioned above: Old age death and not wanting to come back.
You should be able to get around Wish by casting Mind Blank on the statue and then Imprisoning it.

Wish can't free someone from Imprisonment. Mind Blank prevents Wish or Discern Location from revealing the location of the imprisoned. Imprisonment works like Temporal Stasis, meaning the Mind Blank won't run out.
The only way around this is a psion with Metafaculty who has seen the creature before you disposed of it. There can't be too many of those, so if there are just do the same thing to them.


Can that spell from BoVD can make them not want to come back?
It should be able to, yes. You can undo the effect with a Wish though, so it's not entirely foolproof if someone goes through the trouble of finding the soul and undoing it (or just mindraping them into wanting to come back, depending on alignment).

[Divide by Zero]

Trap their soul, then use it as a spell component. Bonus evil points for spending it on something trivial, like using mage hand to do your laundry.

[dethkruzer]

indeed, by high levels you can have a number of creative ways to keep someone from being brought back to life. The real question is just how evil you are willing to go with the solution.

[Yael]

indeed, by high levels you can have a number of creative ways to keep someone from being brought back to life. The real question is just how evil you are willing to go with the solution.

We serve the Elder Gods, refering to Nyarlathotep as our recurring little imp with the tuxedo, so evilness is just no excuse.

[Dalebert]

You kill the allies who care about them and have the resources to bring them back, or else take away their resources.

[Aliek]

On the ELH there's an assassin's guild called the Garrote, that carries a poison, Mortu, which when applied to the target's eyes after they're dead, prevents raise dead, resurrection and true resurrection. Only 50% of preventing wish/miracle tough.

[Agent 451]

Would killing them with a weapon made of thinaun work? The description says that "raise dead, resurrection, and similar spells" can't return a creature to life, unless you have the weapon. Says nothing about using wish though.

[ezkajii]

Frost Dragons and Shadow Wights, from the Bestiary of Krynn, have an ability called 'Oblivion'. When successfully reduced to Charisma 0 (by the creatures' accompanying Charisma damage), the character vanishes, leaving clothes and possessions behind. In addition, all memory of his existence is erased from all people, and it explicitly states no effect, not even a wish can bring the character back.

That's about as dead as you can get.

[Yael]

Frost Dragons and Shadow Wights, from the Bestiary of Krynn, have an ability called 'Oblivion'. When successfully reduced to Charisma 0 (by the creatures' accompanying Charisma damage), the character vanishes, leaving clothes and possessions behind. In addition, all memory of his existence is erased from all people, and it explicitly states no effect, not even a wish can bring the character back.

That's about as dead as you can get.

Unname comes to mind, but this comes with no solution it seems :O

[Phelix-Mu]

While we are listing options, I came across the souleater in the back of Magic of Incarnum today. It has a note about the creature that it has eaten the soul of being unable to be raised while it is inside it. After it digests it, a few options come back online, but it seems to me if you used imprisonment or some form of stasis on the souleater before it digests the soul that might be a pretty good solution. Didn't give it a terribly close reading, though, so perhaps there are some holes to be poked in it yet.

Included for completeness, though.:smallsmile:

[Astralia123]

The quickest solution might be Soul Bind, if you killed the creature and have time to deal with it; or Imprison/Temporal Stasis/Trap the Soul, if you have alternative options.

In worst situation, that you face this creature in combat and his friend/minion/copy has a True Resurrection/Wish at hand whenever you manage to kill him, then trap the soul or soul bind would be best choice. At least his helper(s) need to break the gem first to resurrect him.

There is also an option to have an undead or aberration or any such sort of creature that have the ability to prevent him from resurrection to land last blow to him.


EDIT: But what I wonder is that why you wish to prevent such a creature from being resurrected...Are you trying to wipe out some good archmage or something to further your Gods' courses, or are you trying to deal with some extremely nasty types of recurring villains?

[sleepyphoenixx]

EDIT: But what I wonder is that why you wish to prevent such a creature from being resurrected...Are you trying to wipe out some good archmage or something to further your Gods' courses, or are you trying to deal with some extremely nasty types of recurring villains?

Death is usually just a minor inconvenience in D&D, at least for anything with access to the magical resources. Killing the Big Bad evil wizard doesn't help much if he's back a day or two later, only this time he knows your tactics and abilities and can plan to counter them.
You can't really count any serious enemy as defeated if you don't make sure they're not resurrected.

Which neatly explains the abundance of bound/imprisoned big bads in most fantasy settings. Most good people either can't or won't resort to soul destruction, so they have to store their dangerous enemies somewhere. Stuff accumulates and makes for good plot hooks a few centuries/millenia later. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Necrotic Termination permanently destroys the soul of the target if they fail their saving throw.

"If the subject fails her saving throw, the cyst expands beyond control, killing the subject and digesting her soul. Raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish, and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested—she is gone forever."

It is, of course, classed as an evil act.

Reality Revision :smalltongue:

[sleepyphoenixx]

Reality Revision :smalltongue:

The "bring back to life" function of Reality Revision explicitly duplicates Resurrection.

[Phelix-Mu]

The "bring back to life" function of Reality Revision explicitly duplicates Resurrection.

Interesting, hadn't noticed that distinction.

[atemu1234]

Mind rape them into not wanting to come back to life and then kill them.

[Psyren]

The "bring back to life" function of Reality Revision explicitly duplicates Resurrection.

Good point. However, the "more powerful effects" clause, while dangerous, can still potentially work.

Another option is to use Miracle, not to bring them back, but to make it so the Necrotic Termination never happened (paying 5000 XP for this "powerful request.") Once that is done, TR them normally.


Mind rape them into not wanting to come back to life and then kill them.

As that acts on their mind, it's unclear how far that will extend to their soul. (The only one that explicitly affects the soul is Sanctify the Wicked.)

[sleepyphoenixx]

Good point. However, the "more powerful effects" clause, while dangerous, can still potentially work.

Another option is to use Miracle, not to bring them back, but to make it so the Necrotic Termination never happened (paying 5000 XP for this "powerful request.") Once that is done, TR them normally.

The "more powerful effects" clause can potentially do anything, so i don't think it should really count. Especially considering that Miracle explicitly can't bring the victim back i'd be very hesitant to basically allow it to do just that anyway just because of smart wording.


As that acts on their mind, it's unclear how far that will extend to their soul. (The only one that explicitly affects the soul is Sanctify the Wicked.)
Afaik D&D doesn't really make a distinction here. You still have your mind even when dead, so it's not part of your body. Since it's instantaneous i'd say it works, but then the effect can be removed to make resurrection possible again so it's not foolproof anyway.

[Psyren]

The "more powerful effects" clause can potentially do anything, so i don't think it should really count.

Indeed - it's a way for a DM to insert all kinds of plothooks and caveats if you really want that guy revived. Wish would be similar.


Especially considering that Miracle explicitly can't bring the victim back i'd be very hesitant to basically allow it to do just that anyway just because of smart wording.

But I'm not using it to "bring them back." I'm "undoing a spell." Then using something else to bring them back. :smallsmile:

Basically, gods should be able to trump mortal magic, even 9th-level mortal magic.



Afaik D&D doesn't really make a distinction here. You still have your mind even when dead, so it's not part of your body. Since it's instantaneous i'd say it works, but then the effect can be removed to make resurrection possible again so it's not foolproof anyway.

Ah, but do even instantaneous effects remain active on you when dead? If a fireball reduces you to -50 HP, do you still have -50 HP as a petitioner?

[Vogonjeltz]

Frost Dragons and Shadow Wights, from the Bestiary of Krynn, have an ability called 'Oblivion'. When successfully reduced to Charisma 0 (by the creatures' accompanying Charisma damage), the character vanishes, leaving clothes and possessions behind. In addition, all memory of his existence is erased from all people, and it explicitly states no effect, not even a wish can bring the character back.

That's about as dead as you can get.

Technically Wish and Reality Revision can indirectly revive someone by changing history (The Undo misfortune option).
Or if you have a Nomad Handy, they could always reverse time (Time Regression) far enough to undo whatever killed the person and then save them.


Ah, but do even instantaneous effects remain active on you when dead? If a fireball reduces you to -50 HP, do you still have -50 HP as a petitioner?

No as the Petitioner is a new creature on another plane. Any effect that targeted the formerly alive character when they lived would end unless it specified otherwise. That is how I read it. Of course, many methods of bringing characters back to life also specify that some conditions do or don't end.

Another way to stop them getting revived would be to hide them. Imprisonment comes to mind. Perhaps some Binding spell.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Technically Wish and Reality Revision can indirectly revive someone by changing history (The Undo misfortune option).
Or if you have a Nomad Handy, they could always reverse time (Time Regression) far enough to undo whatever killed the person and then save them.
Both of those only work for the last round. Keeping someone from casting/manifesting for 1 round isn't much of a problem, if someone allied with your target and capable of those things is even around.


No as the Petitioner is a new creature on another plane. Any effect that targeted the formerly alive character when they lived would end unless it specified otherwise. That is how I read it. Of course, many methods of bringing characters back to life also specify that some conditions do or don't end.
It's never clearly spelled out afaik. I'd say it stays because it's not an ongoing effect and it affects the mind, but you could easily argue for a different interpretation.


Another way to stop them getting revived would be to hide them. Imprisonment comes to mind. Perhaps some Binding spell.
You'd need to Mind Blank them too, as i mentioned on the last page. Still not 100% secure but probably as close as you'll get if you don't want to resort to [Evil] methods like soul destruction.

[Psyren]

Both of those only work for the last round. Keeping someone from casting/manifesting for 1 round isn't much of a problem, if someone allied with your target and capable of those things is even around.

Well, both psionics and magic can go back waaaaaaay further than one round (FD/TTT) so you can land right after the NT and undo it then, or just keep it from happening in the first place.

[EisenKreutzer]

Theres always the RP solution of contacting the subjects deity and trying to prevent any resurrection that way. IIRC a deity can decide whether it's subjects are allowed to be resurrected.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

There is no way to truly prevent someone from being brought back. Even when all of the above are used, someone might use Time Regression with an infinite PP/xp trick and undo them via time travel. :smallbiggrin:

[Heliomance]

Step 1: Flesh to Stone
Step 2: Soften Earth and Stone
Step 3: Mix with some water to qualify the clay as wet earth
Step 4: Soften Earth and Stone
Step 5: Purify Food and Drink
Step 6: Either drink the resulting water, or go pour it into a river.

They're not dead, so no resurrection effect will work, but good luck collecting that water to try and reverse the process!

[Lord Vukodlak]

Mind Blank prevents Wish or Discern Location from revealing the location of the imprisoned.
I wish he wasn't mind blanked followed by a divination to find his location.

[Psyren]

Step 1: Flesh to Stone
Step 2: Soften Earth and Stone

I see this trick a lot but I can't see how a magically-transmuted statue could be considered "natural, undressed earth or stone."

[Heliomance]

I see this trick a lot but I can't see how a magically-transmuted statue could be considered "natural, undressed earth or stone."

Take a sledgehammer to it first, then.

Alternatively, strip the victim naked before turning them into a statue.

[Divide by Zero]

There is no way to truly prevent someone from being brought back. Even when all of the above are used, someone might use Time Regression with an infinite PP/xp trick and undo them via time travel. :smallbiggrin:

Good point. So what ways are there to prevent time travel?

[Psyren]

Take a sledgehammer to it first, then.

In addition to killing them, this makes the stone no less natural.


Alternatively, strip the victim naked before turning them into a statue.

Good luck doing that in a fight :smalltongue:

(So all I have to do is wear a piercing some place you can't see to be totally safe? Have fun with that search check!)

[Heliomance]

In addition to killing them, this makes the stone no less natural.
Doesn't kill them until they get turned back to flesh. And if that's really an issue, get a cockatrice to petrify them for you. Cockatrices are natural.




Good luck doing that in a fight :smalltongue:

(So all I have to do is wear a piercing some place you can't see to be totally safe? Have fun with that search check!)

Well yes, obviously you'd have to render them helpless first. Are you willing to put in the effort to make sure they can never come back, or not?

I intend to :smallamused:

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The correct steps are;

1) Flesh-to-Stone.
2) Disintegrate.
3) Dissolve dust into acid.
4) Pour the acid into the ocean.



However, as mentioned before, people with Time Regression or similar can counter you in the past before you do all that. There is no way to prevent this, no matter what you do. You'd have to prevent everyone in the entirety of Creation from being able to manifest Time Regression, which isn't possible IMHO.

[Psyren]

Doesn't kill them until they get turned back to flesh. And if that's really an issue, get a cockatrice to petrify them for you. Cockatrices are natural.

Nope. Gaze attacks are supernatural.

I'm also not sure I buy the first one but I'll cede it for now.

[EisenKreutzer]

Would turining them into an undead work? Apart from time-travel shennanigans?

[Psyren]

Would turining them into an undead work? Apart from time-travel shennanigans?

Sure, but they could always find that undead and destroy it. Vision would reveal one of two significant events - them being turned into an undead, or you doing it.

[EisenKreutzer]

Sure, but they could always find that undead and destroy it. Vision would reveal one of two significant events - them being turned into an undead, or you doing it.

So in addition to turning them into a zombie and encasing them in a lead sarcofagus dropped into the sea you'd have to somehow prevent anyone from scrying on yourself and the zombie, then?

[sleepyphoenixx]

However, as mentioned before, people with Time Regression or similar can counter you in the past before you do all that. There is no way to prevent this, no matter what you do. You'd have to prevent everyone in the entirety of Creation from being able to manifest Time Regression, which isn't possible IMHO.

Am i missing some errata here? Because according to the SRD Time Regression is limited to a single round, with no augmentation option. Even without that getting more than a minute or two would probably be pretty much impossible because of the max PP = ML restriction.

[Psyren]

So in addition to turning them into a zombie and encasing them in a lead sarcofagus dropped into the sea you'd have to somehow prevent anyone from scrying on yourself and the zombie, then?

Vision isn't stopped by lead. It's not a scrying effect - it literally reads reality/history itself. It's basically Legend Lore with instant replay.

[EisenKreutzer]

Vision isn't stopped by lead. It's not a scrying effect - it literally reads reality/history itself. It's basically Legend Lore with instant replay.

The lead was to stop the zombie from getting out. Ok so stopping Vision is right out the window, unless Wish or Miracle can somehow prevent anyone from using it on this specific event somehow?

[Psyren]

The lead was to stop the zombie from getting out. Ok so stopping Vision is right out the window, unless Wish or Miracle can somehow prevent anyone from using it on this specific event somehow?

Well, Wish and Miracle can theoretically do anything. Just like a second Wish or Miracle can undo it.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Am i missing some errata here? Because according to the SRD Time Regression is limited to a single round, with no augmentation option. Even without that getting more than a minute or two would probably be pretty much impossible because of the max PP = ML restriction.
XP and PP costs can be avoided in multiple ways. The simplest would be a dorje of Time Regression, crafted in any of the ways that get around crafting costs. Even without avoiding the costs, you can regress up to 50 consequetive rounds (i.e. 5 minutes), for a cost of 3.000 gp/round.

[ezkajii]

Technically Wish and Reality Revision can indirectly revive someone by changing history (The Undo misfortune option).
Or if you have a Nomad Handy, they could always reverse time (Time Regression) far enough to undo whatever killed the person and then save them.

True enough. But if your memory's been wiped of the character, you'd have no reason to be attempting to bring them back. It not only makes it extremely difficult to bring them back, it removes your entire reason for trying.

[Psyren]

True enough. But if your memory's been wiped of the character, you'd have no reason to be attempting to bring them back. It not only makes it extremely difficult to bring them back, it removes your entire reason for trying.

Right up until you (or anyone else) analyzes your life for significant events, and having your mind wiped stands out.

[EisenKreutzer]

You know what we need?

Balefire from Wheel of Time. A spell that erases you from history and fate. Did they ever stat it up in the old 3.0 WoT campaign setting?

[Psyren]

You know what we need?

Balefire from Wheel of Time. A spell that erases you from history and fate. Did they ever stat it up in the old 3.0 WoT campaign setting?

The issue is - balefire is a hard stop in that setting because none of the deities can control time itself. (In fact, this is Shai'tan's main goal, breaking the Wheel so he can step outside of time's shackles.)

This is not the case in D&D - there are deities, overdeities and other entities that do govern time. In addition, there is nothing like Wish or Miracle in WoT.

[Alleran]

Balefire from Wheel of Time. A spell that erases you from history and fate. Did they ever stat it up in the old 3.0 WoT campaign setting?
They did.

Instantaneous effect beam (range depends on casting level, starting at 25 feet with the final table entry at 1200 feet), Reflex negates. Nothing stops it except for cuendillar. And I do mean nothing - it'll go straight through anything and everything until it hits a living creature, at which point the erasure effect kicks in. When the creature fails the Reflex save it's deleted from reality along with everything it did in the last five seconds (basically the last round in WoT terms).

"Balefire doesn't just destroy its target instantly - it actually destroys it back through time, as the creature's thread is literally burned out of the Pattern. The 'backburn' given on the table below indicates how far back in time the creature is destroyed. Everything the creature did over that period, and everything that resulted from that creature's actions, is undone, leaving only the memories of those who witnessed the target's actions."

The description notes that if a Trolloc was hit with it a few seconds after attacking an armsman, not only does the Trolloc die instantly, the armsman's wounds would disappear. The regression goes from one round to one minute, then ten, then two hours, then a day, then ten days. In theory it could go higher (based on the table pattern, I'd guess the next is two weeks, then one month, then ten months, and so on and so forth), but in the WoT system there's no way to get the casting level of the weave high enough to pull that off. Plus, the altered timeline you might need to determine at ten days is bad enough.

[StoneCipher]

Having a demilich trap the soul and run away for over 24 hours.

[Dalebert]

Balefire reminds me of an oldy. Does anyone remember that slim booklet that came out a while back with optional rules for spells up to 20th level? Was it the Tome of Mighty Magic? I think mortals could only cast up to level 15 or something (Darn!) without the help of a deity. Anyway, there was a level 20 spell. Forget the name. Maybe eradicate or something. It deleted a creature from ever having existed including everyone's memories of it. It was described as somewhat theoretical because no one could remember successfully casting it which makes sense because even the caster forgets the being ever existed.

It was a pretty ridiculous book but I did play in a munchkinny game where the DM implemented it. I remember researching a spell called Prismatic Storm, 11th level. It was a large area of ongoing prismatic effects in which glowing multi-colored lightning bolts and meteorites were constantly hitting anyone in the area.

[Heliomance]

If you're OK with 3rd party, there's always the Immortals Handbook. IIRC, I believe the Void Dragon has a breath weapon of save vs never having existed.

[Vogonjeltz]

Good point. So what ways are there to prevent time travel?

Well, Time Regression only does 1 round at a time. So anytime the Psionicist enters a location/zone that nullifies the ability to use Psionics (with no way to get around it on hand) they are setting a hard cut off for Time Regression. So you can prevent the use of Time Regression by a particular Psion by, sometime after the death of someone, forcing them into an Anti-Psionics Field. (AMF, assuming Transparency).

Actually this could STILL be gotten around in the following way:

Psion who wants to Time Travel (but can not owing to having entered an AMF sometime after the time they want to go to) goes on a quest and enlists the aid of another powerful Psion who themselves CAN use Time Regression prior to that point. Then that second Psion warns the first Psion to prevent their entering the AMF at all. Thus the first Psion can now use Time Regression themselves.

Whew, super complex, but it would be a fantastic storyline. Like a Psion is going after these guys and they can't figure out why, and the reason is that they would have done something to kill the Psion's loved one in the future, so the Psion is undergoing extreme Time Traveling to prevent it.

It could also be a quest where the PCs need to enlist the aid of a powerful Psion to undo a wrong and then have that same Psion warn them in advance that it's going to happen. This would of course require players who could parse player knowledge from character knowledge and do it well.


XP and PP costs can be avoided in multiple ways. The simplest would be a dorje of Time Regression, crafted in any of the ways that get around crafting costs. Even without avoiding the costs, you can regress up to 50 consequetive rounds (i.e. 5 minutes), for a cost of 3.000 gp/round.

I like it, but this would have to exist more than the duration the character intended to go into the past. If you used it right after making it, for example, you'd regress to before you made the device (and thus not have the device). So this definitely requires pre-planning because the 'time travel device' (time regression dorje) can't go to any time prior to it being made.


But if your memory's been wiped of the character, you'd have no reason to be attempting to bring them back. It not only makes it extremely difficult to bring them back, it removes your entire reason for trying.

Yes, there is that issue. Although...and this may be something the ability of these creatures addresses more...it wouldn't necessarily remove the knowledge that someone (whose identity is now unknown) had been killed, no? For example, our party is fighting a monster, it kills someone. Wouldn't the act of killing someone else still remain? (Otherwise our characters would remember something like this monster attacking...nothing... for many seconds, minutes, or what have you, completely ignoring the attacks of our PCs. I think that in and of itself would stand out.)

Hrm, I note it leaves behind clothes and effects. So there would still be hard evidence that someone had just died, even if no one could remember who it was.

[Brookshw]

I'm just going to go with time regression abilities are among the stupidest and should never have been introduced.