What does a monk's belt do?

[Laesin]

I was playing in a game recently as a wiz(nec)/rog gestalt with absurd scores in all three stats and was told by my DM that the monks belt would only give me the +1 AC of a fifth level monk (no wis). Whilst accepting this as my DM's house rule I would like to ask people on this board to say how they adjudicate this item.

[Jasdoif]

Well, the item description specifically says the AC bonus works just like the monk's AC bonus, and both the +1 per five levels and Wisdom modifier are listed in the monk's AC bonus ability...so you would get the Wisdom modifier and +1 to AC, just like a level 5 monk.

[Bears With Lasers]

What Jas said. I'm pretty sure this ruling is in the FAQ, too.

[Ranis]

It also gives you the unarmed attack of a monk of 5th level. Normally, you can't do lethal damage with unarmed attacks, but with a monk's belt, you can. The +1 AC would still take into effect, but you wouldn't get your Wisdom modifier to your AC anyway because the Monk's Belt doesn't do that.

[Dhavaer]

It also gives you the unarmed attack of a monk of 5th level. Normally, you can't do lethal damage with unarmed attacks, but with a monk's belt, you can. The +1 AC would still take into effect, but you wouldn't get your Wisdom modifier to your AC anyway because the Monk's Belt doesn't do that.

You can with a -4 penalty, just like all nonlethal weapons.

[Bears With Lasers]

The +1 AC would still take into effect, but you wouldn't get your Wisdom modifier to your AC anyway because the Monk's Belt doesn't do that.

No, it does. Read the Monk class again. Check the "AC bonus" special ability.

[Laesin]

Could you clarify that Ranis as a fifth level monk does gain their Wis modifier.

[Ranis]

You got me. The -4 penalty is correct, I forgot about that.

Now with the actual question, it doesn't actually explicitly state that you get a Wisdom modifier to AC, it's only strongly suggested that it's the column under the Monk's 'Unarmored AC Bonus." It's a DM call here due to the bad wording. Personally, I'd say no. But if you guys want to read between the lines, that's cool too.

[greenknight]

Now with the actual question, it doesn't actually explicitly state that you get a Wisdom modifier to AC

It does in the official FAQ (p44, from the 12/20/06 update)

[Laesin]

Cool. Thanks greenknight I can have fun with that with my Wiz/Rog with wis and dex in the high twenties thanks to manuals, tomes, periapts and gloves. Not to mention bracers of armor with absurd costs. Think I'm capable of ACs in the high 50s now.

P.S. Can you link that as I have trouble finding anything online.

[Ramza00]

What does a monk's belt do?
It reduces the number of levels you have in Monk by 5. Which is a good thing for Monk may be a cool character concept but as an actual mechanical class it is kinda lacking. Multiclass/Prestige out.

And yes you do get the wis to ac with the monk belt, its in the FAQ.

[kamikasei]

You got me. The -4 penalty is correct, I forgot about that.

Now with the actual question, it doesn't actually explicitly state that you get a Wisdom modifier to AC, it's only strongly suggested that it's the column under the Monk's 'Unarmored AC Bonus." It's a DM call here due to the bad wording. Personally, I'd say no. But if you guys want to read between the lines, that's cool too.

Bad wording?


Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks): If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.


AC Bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm) (Ex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#extraordinaryAbilities)) When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).



An AC bonus that functions just like the AC bonus of a 5th-level monk is one that adds your wisdom bonus +1 to your AC. What's the confusion? In particular, how troublesome can it possibly be for a character who's not a monk to get a Wis bonus to AC for forgoing armor?

[Bears With Lasers]

There are much better uses of your cash than pumping WIS and DEX. You're a wizard; if you need AC badly, you're doing something wrong... not to mention that you could get a lot more AC by investing in enchanted mithral shields and armor with ASF reducers if you were really inclined to do so.

[Ramza00]

I don't have my books with me, but can't you take cardemine monk and get Int to AC (instead of Wis to AC) even if you don't have a lvl of monk(using a monk belt instead)? If I recall the answer is yes, or is that Kung Fu Genius that works like that due to its wording.

[Bears With Lasers]

With Carmendine Monk, no, it specifies monk. Kung-Fu Genius could work that way.

[Ranis]

It does in the official FAQ (p44, from the 12/20/06 update)

Alright, I hadn't seen this. You guys are right, I was wrong. Sorry.

[Bears With Lasers]

Plus, FAQ or not, there is absolutely no ambiguity in the wording. Even if you're inclined to look at the table rather than reading the monk's AC bonus entry, text trumps table is a rule.

[Laesin]

There are much better uses of your cash than pumping WIS and DEX. You're a wizard; if you need AC badly, you're doing something wrong... not to mention that you could get a lot more AC by investing in enchanted mithral shields and armor with ASF reducers if you were really inclined to do so.

Maybe but when you add together a monks belt, a +6 periapt of wis, +6 gloves of dex, a +5 manual, a +5 tome, +8 bracers, a +5 ring of protection, a +5 scholars outfit (houseruled in with priests vestment as precedent) and numerous other stuff its worth it especially with the price of the belt being so low. (yes this is a high wealth campaign but only because the DM couldn't find a way to stop us using an absurd moneymaker without breaking verisimilitude)

[Bears With Lasers]

Maybe but when you add together a monks belt, a +6 periapt of wis, +6 gloves of dex, a +5 manual, a +5 tome, +8 bracers, a +5 ring of protection, a +5 scholars outfit (houseruled in with priests vestment as precedent) and numerous other stuff its worth it especially with the price of the belt being so low. (yes this is a high wealth campaign but only because the DM couldn't find a way to stop us using an absurd moneymaker without breaking verisimilitude)

First of all, you would benefit from all the dex, ring, etc. stuff without the Monk's Belt.

Second of all, you're buying the Periapt and the Tome, too, so you're not spending 13k, you're spending 13k+36k+135k. If your WIS is, let's say, 19, you're adding 11, and getting a WIS of 30, which is +15 AC. +16, with the extra +1 from the monk's belt.
But you've just spent 184,000 gp. You could buy a Greater Rod of Quicken Spell with that. Again: you're a wizard, you have tons of other ways to keep yourself seafe.

And, oh, yeah--the +5 clothes won't stack with the Bracers of Armor, because they're both armor bonuses.

And, oh, yeah, if you're not core only, just use Greater Luminous Armor (get the cleric a wand of restoration) or Greater Mage Armor instead of buying the 64k bracers.

[TheOOB]

Wizards should use a amulet of natural armor or an amulet of heath in their neck slot, not a periapt of wisdom. The natural armor can give more AC then the wisdom, and the amulet of health gives more hp and better fort saves, both of which wizards lack.

Besides, a +5 mithral buckler gives you +6 AC for pretty cheep with no ASF and no need for proficiencies. Heck if your DM allows it a +5 twilight mithral chain shirt can give you +9 AC on top of that, once again with no ASF.

Monks belt works best for multiclasses monks or druids who put it on after they wild shape(Making unarmed attacks and attacks with natural weapons at the same time is nice).

[Jack_Simth]

That and, in general, the thing is more expensive than what you'd get from an equivalent cost in armor and shield.

The Monk's Belt costs 13,000 gp, and grants you 1 + Wis to AC, with no cap to your Dex bonus.

A suit of fullplate costs 1,650 gp, and grants you +8 armor bonus to AC. A +1 Animated Heavy Steel Shield costs 9,170 gp, and grants a +3 Shield bonus to AC... but between the two, caps your Dex bonus to +1. Between the two, that's +11 to your AC, at a cost of 10,820 gp.

In order to make the Monk's Belt give you a higher AC than the Fullplate + Animated Shield, you need a Wis bonus + Dex Bonus of +12 or better (which is doable). And your friendly neighborhood Cleric can cast Magic Vestments on both Fullplate and Animated Shield, compared to just the clothing for the one with the Monk's Belt.

For most of a character's career, armor is going to be better for non-touch attacks. The cost of Bracers of Armor scale - exactly - with +'s to the Fullplate, and can thus be ignored (until they hit +6.... but that just reduces the Dex + Wis requirement by 1 per point over +5).

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Cool. Thanks greenknight I can have fun with that with my Wiz/Rog with wis and dex in the high twenties thanks to manuals, tomes, periapts and gloves. Not to mention bracers of armor with absurd costs. Think I'm capable of ACs in the high 50s now.

P.S. Can you link that as I have trouble finding anything online.

FAQs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a)


Does a monk’s belt (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 248) grant
a non-monk wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC?

Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus
only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly
states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC
bonus.”

(There is nothing else to say)

[Greendevilman]

And, oh, yeah--the +5 clothes won't stack with the Bracers of Armor, because they're both armor bonuses.


Why not? Bracers give an armor bonus while that +5 shirt is presumably an enhancement bonus to armor if it is at all similar to other magic armor. Totally different things. Bracers of Armor +8 are basically super duper expensive magic-based fullplate with no ASF or Dex penalties.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Why not? Bracers give an armor bonus while that +5 shirt is presumably an enhancement bonus to armor if it is at all similar to other magic armor. Totally different things. Bracers of Armor +8 are basically super duper expensive magic-based fullplate with no ASF or Dex penalties.

No, they are not.


I have a bard in my game who has a bit of money to spend. She buys a set of bracers of armor +3 and a suit of +3 leather armor. If the bard wears both at the same time, the armor bonus from the bracers (+3) overrides the armor bonus from the leather armor (+1). Our question is, does the +3 enhancement bonus from the armor still get applied for a total of +6, is it subsumed by the magic of the bracers, or is it just ignored completely? Since the enhancement
bonus and armor bonus are different types of bonuses, the bard thinks her total Armor Class bonus should be +6.

The magic leather armor’s +3 enhancement bonus applies to make the armor’s armor bonus bigger (+4 in this case). The example character uses only the larger armor bonus (+4) when wearing both the armor and the bracers.
The overlapping +3 bonus from the bracers is still there, however. (It is just irrelevant most of the time.) If something bypasses the +4 bonus from the magic armor, the bracers might still prove effective. For example, an incorporeal touch attack bypasses the whole armor bonus from the magic armor. Since the bracers provide a force effect, they protect the bard against the incorporeal touch attack. The example character still has a
+3 armor bonus against the incorporeal touch attack.

[Clementx]

As the FAQ states, the monk's belt only works when you are in no armor and carrying a light load. So besides monks, it only helps clerics that forgo heavy armor (expensive trade-off for lesser AC and better mobility, so it's ok) and druids who do the same (potentially better AC if there is a lack of dragon hide, but no way to get Wild/Beastskin on it). And maybe a strange arcane type with good Wis, but that impact is much less.

[Jack_Simth]

As the FAQ states, the monk's belt only works when you are in no armor and carrying a light load. So besides monks, it only helps clerics that forgo heavy armor (expensive trade-off for lesser AC and better mobility, so it's ok) and druids who do the same (potentially better AC if there is a lack of dragon hide, but no way to get Wild/Beastskin on it). And maybe a strange arcane type with good Wis, but that impact is much less.
If it stacks with Mage Armor / Bracers of Armor and the Shield Spell, it's useful to any arcane type with a non-negative Wisdom modifier (who can't really wear much in the way of armor/shield anyway). If it doesn't, it is considerably less useful.

[Clementx]

If it stacks with Mage Armor / Bracers of Armor and the Shield Spell, it's useful to any arcane type with a non-negative Wisdom modifier (who can't really wear much in the way of armor/shield anyway). If it doesn't, it is considerably less useful.

It does. Are you going to spend 13,000gp and your belt slot for +1 or 2 Wis to AC? I doubt it.

[Jack_Simth]

It does. Are you going to spend 13,000gp and your belt slot for +1 or 2 Wis to AC? I doubt it.As a min-maxer, once I'm out of less expensive AC increasing items, yes, I will.
If I've already got the +6 Bracers of Armor (transition to +7 costs 13,000), the Dust Rose Prism Ioun Stone, the +2 Amulet of Natural Armor (transition to +3 costs 14,000), +4 Gauntlets of Dexterity (transition to +6 costs 20,000), the +2 Ring of Protection (transition to +3 costs 14,000), and so forth, it's worth it at a Wisdom score of 10. With a Wisdom score of 12 or better, it's worthwhile even over a +5 Mithral Buckler, provided I can find a way to maintain a Shield spell all day.

[Thrawn183]

We got one in treasure after fighting some npc's and I hopped my cleric all over that. I made a complete transition from full plate + animated shield to monk's belt + bracers of armor + gloves of dex + greater luminous armor (I know it doesn't stack, the bracers were a precaution, no one else in the party wanted them). The funny thing was this turned out to be a turning point for my character from being melee to ranged. It even involved me changing the deity I worshipped. A major transition in equipment/fighting style can be a huge amount of fun if done properly.

[Ramza00]

Why not? Bracers give an armor bonus while that +5 shirt is presumably an enhancement bonus to armor if it is at all similar to other magic armor. Totally different things. Bracers of Armor +8 are basically super duper expensive magic-based fullplate with no ASF or Dex penalties.
As stated above it doesn't stack. You can though stack enchantments similar to how with an archer you cast GMW on the bow, have a +9 bow after enchantments (only +1 really) and then maybe have +3 or +4 arrows (but are really +1 or +2) (It is alot easier to stack arrow enchantments with the quiver of eloha)