[PoW] How to better integrate Warder and Intelligence?

[Larkas]

So, one thing that has been bothering me somewhat is how almost everything about the Warder screams "CHARISMA!" to me. As I was reading it, I thought "alright, I'll house rule it to use Chatisma and the Warlord will be Intelligence based, a la Crusader-Warblade in ToB". But when I finally got to the Warlord, I noticed how well integrated is Charisma to its design.

So now I turn to the collective knowledge of the Playground: is there a way to better integrate Intelligence to the Warder design, fluff-wise? Should it be Charisma based, one-class-per-mental-stat be damned? Am I blowing the problem out of proportion?

[Greenish]

I don't see why warden should be Cha-based, but if you really want that, I'd make it an archetype.

[Lord_Gareth]

So, one thing that has been bothering me somewhat is how almost everything about the Warder screams "CHARISMA!" to me. As I was reading it, I thought "alright, I'll house rule it to use Chatisma and the Warlord will be Intelligence based, a la Crusader-Warblade in ToB". But when I finally got to the Warlord, I noticed how well integrated is Charisma to its design.

So now I turn to the collective knowledge of the Playground: is there a way to better integrate Intelligence to the Warder design, fluff-wise? Should it be Charisma based, one-class-per-mental-stat be damned? Am I blowing the problem out of proportion?

Can you expand on why you feel the Warder is Charisma-based?

[Jigawatts]

Personally, I see Lan and the Wheel of Time whenever I look at the Warder class, so I have no problem with Int, he was one smart dude.

I think the biggest disconnect with the PoW mental stats comes from the Harbinger. It either needs to be changed to Charisma based, or have its fluff changed to reflect the cold, calculated Dexter type. Right now whenever I look at it I see the ghost kid from season 1 of American Horror Story. I would be fine with a simple fluff change, but as it stands right now just screams EMO. Highly intelligent people are less prone to be emotional, not moreso.

[malonkey1]

Highly intelligent people are less prone to be emotional, not moreso.

I would be inclined to disagree. Every intelligent person I know gets worked up just as easily as anyone else.

[Lord_Gareth]

Harbinger's stuff belongs elsewhere, folks. There's an Expanded thread for that :p

[Jigawatts]

My bad. :smallbiggrin:

[Ellowryn]

I do agree that compared to the other 2 base classes their mental stat isn't all that integrated into the mechanics of the class. Stalkers get to use their Wis mod for Ki, bonuses to saves and abilities, and to fuel their deadly strike, while Warlords get to add their Cha mod to to hit and damage, bonus to saves for certain effects, and even temporary HP for everyone in the group. For a Warder it really only adds to the number of AoO's, a couple of saves and abilities, and their mark. Now the mark ability is good but i feel it could be better mechanically. Overall though you could drop an 18 in Int to start and never really feel the need to get more as the gains from it scale very poorly.

[Larkas]

Can you expand on why you feel the Warder is Charisma-based?

Sure. Aegis says this:


Allies who are within 10 ft. of the warder’s position gain a +1 morale bonus to Armor Class and to Will saves under the warder’s defensive aegis, her presence bolstering and shepherding the defenses of her allies.

This screams "charismatic leader" to me. Furthermore, Armiger's Mark says this:


At 2nd level, a warder is trained in how best to control her enemies and how they behave in battle, urging them to throw their all against the warder’s indomitable armor and unyielding shield. With a sharp blade, a clever taunt, or something that otherwise attracts her foe, the warder can direct the attention of enemies towards himself.

This seems like a off-putting fellow, a guy that can leave you enraged with words alone. Again, this is best modeled by Charisma.

Other than that, all the other abilities are "ability neutral", save for Tactical Acumen (and even then it's mainly due to the name, it wouldn't be so hard to twist that to Cha) and Adaptive Tactics. Even so, I feel that I can explain much more easily Adaptive Tactics on a Cha hero than Aegis and Armiger's Mark on a Int one!

[TheIronGolem]

I don't know, the Warder already feels pretty INT-based to me. I view most of its abilities as expressions of tactical thinking. Even the "taunt" aspect of Armiger's Mark strikes me as being more about being carefully calculated to elicit a desired emotional response than just raw force of personality, not to mention that it can just as easily be a function of tactical positioning and movement rather than a literal taunt.

I do think there's conceptual room for some sort of CHA-based archetype, though.