[PF] Synthesist Dip

[Yomega]

Hey all,

Can anyone explain how the synthesist taking the quadruped base form work as a dip class for a fighter centered around multi-weapon fighting?

Basically my issue is with 'The eidolon must have limbs for the synthesist to cast spells with somatic components.', now I assume that means arms but regardless if my player takes the extra limbs (arms) evolution would he end up with 4 or 6 arms (he already has 4)

He is just hitting level 5 if that has any effect and the feature he is trying to grab is pounce.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hm. First, this is a weird way to get pounce, but pounce is really hard to get in PF so I guess it sorta makes sense. However, you'd be using the eidolon's physical ability scores, which is enough of a disadvantage (in this case) that I don't think it's even worth it. If you want pounce, dip vanilla Summoner for 1 level, make the eidolon a quadruped, and ride the eidolon. Delay your or its initiative so that you act 1 lower than the eidolon. Make its action be movement (or charge), and your actions be a full attack.

Better, though, would be to just play Summoner 20 and stomach the BAB loss. Synthesist looks nice but cuts the number of actions per round in half. A vanilla summoner can buff his eidolon and let his eidolon get in a full attack, while a synthesist cannot.

TL;DR multiclassing with summoner is dumb because the eidolon will be ultra-weaksauce

[Forrestfire]

When you're in Eidolon form, you use its BAB, not yours. A Synthesist dip would be horrible, on account of permanently setting your BAB to 1.

[Yomega]

I figured the using the eldions BAB was like how monks use there level during flurry but all the same.

And summoner 20 is definably out he wants to be the fighter and is trying to get pounce (or something to that effect) its a very low op game, believe me I tried to get them to be more epic but after 8 character deaths in five levels and they keep making mundians I have come to accept it.

As for multi classing the eldions strengths is irrelevant since its hp is just some extra temp hp.

So I guess the only real issue Im still having is if he would end up with 4 or 6 arms if he takes Extra limbs (arms)?

Also we have (as a group) decided that they want a lower challenge with more lenient rules so Im inclined to make this work.

[Extra Anchovies]

I figured the using the eldions BAB was like how monks use there level during flurry but all the same.

And summoner 20 is definably out he wants to be the fighter and is trying to get pounce (or something to that effect) its a very low op game, believe me I tried to get them to be more epic but after 8 character deaths in five levels and they keep making mundians I have come to accept it.

As for multi classing the eldions strengths is irrelevant since its hp is just some extra temp hp.

So I guess the only real issue Im still having is if he would end up with 4 or 6 arms if he takes Extra limbs (arms)?

Also we have (as a group) decided that they want a lower challenge with more lenient rules so Im inclined to make this work.

The issue is that:

You can't make your own attacks when fused;
You only have pounce when fused;
When the eidolon runs out of temporary HP you stop being fused;
A summoner's eidolon at level 1 has BAB +1 and its Strength (assuming Quadruped form) can't go above 16, or 14 if you want arms.

With all four of these, you either can't fight for crap, but have pounce (fused), or you can fight well, but don't have pounce (unfused).

To answer your question, though, you would only have 2 arms if you took Limbs (Arms) once.

[Yomega]

Cool that clarifies a few things, it will either bes some heavy handed hand waiving or pinting him back to mobile fighter.

[Abd al-Azrad]

One of my buddies was considering a Synthesist dip for his melee class, similar reasoning. What we determined was that the Eidolon's combat abilities overlap (do not stack with) yours, it's nigh useless as a combat buff.

He did see the Eidolon bodysuit as a couple neat things, however:

- Temp HP buffer (tank an early hit while closing to melee range)
- Mobility Boost (1 point evolution for Climb or Swim speed, 1 point evolution for Water Breathing, although you must be a 5th-level Summoner to gain a Fly speed)
- Sensory Boost (Low-light vision, Scent)
- Skills (+8 Racial boost to a skill for 1 evolution point)

My friend was seeing the Eidolon as kind of an Armoured Personnel Carrier, identifying and bypassing hazards and getting him close to the fray. He didn't end up going with this option (hard thing to sacrifice a level for such a weird set of abilities) but at least it seemed like a neat idea in theory.

[ninjamaster1991]

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, it'd be a decent idea. Like the Monk's Flurry of Blows, the Eidolon only replaces the Synthesist's BAB. The hit points aren't a problen either; Fused Link lets attacks hurt you instead of popping your Eidolon-suit.

That's not to say it's always good, as your stats are completely replaced - if you have a stat higher than that of your Eidolon, you still take the suit's stat. Additionally, there's the fluff aspect, as you still look monstrous.

[grarrrg]

Short version: Dipping Synthesist on a Melee build is nigh worthless. Dipping Synthesist on a Caster build has potential.


Eidolon Bab _only_ replaces the Summoner's Bab, same as the "Monk>Flurry" thing.


if my player takes the extra limbs (arms) evolution would he end up with 4 or 6 arms (he already has 4)

The Eidolon completely replaces your physical self.
A Quadruped has 2 sets of Limbs(Legs), meaning you would have 0 arms to start.
Taking the Limbs(Arms) would get you 2 hands.

The Eidolon STR overrides your own, and a Quad only starts with 14 STR, likely lower than what your Fighter has.
Since you're already spending 2 Evo to grow Arms, this doesn't leave enough for the 2-point +2 STR Evolution.

While "first round Pounce" could be handy, you then either need to take a hit large enough to "remove" the Eidolon-suit, or spend a Standard action to dismiss it.

He's really better off not dipping Synthesist.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

When the eidolon runs out of temporary HP you stop being fused;


You're right about everything else, but the Fused Link ability allows you to choose whether each individual hp of damage goes to the Eiidolon or yourself. So you shouldn't lose your Eidolon until unconsciosness.

This is important to both Synthesist 20 and casters dipping Synhesist 1.