How can I get advantage easily?

[tcrudisi]

I'm DMing a game. They are getting tore up in the module I'm running. I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen. We've had two characters almost die in the first session (two failed death saves each) and today should have been a TPK. I worked with them to let one player escape, finagled some things, and it ended up that 3 characters just ended up getting looted by the Kobolds.

But I've noticed something: The Kobolds always have advantage. The players ... never.

They are currently level 1. What ways are there for them to get Advantage? I really feel like I'm missing something. I couldn't even find in the book where something like flanking would give advantage. I've read threads on here where people are talking about mid-high level PCs always having it and I'm just not seeing it. Maybe this is a case where I'm being a bad DM because I can't find any ways in the rules for the players to get advantage so I'm not giving it to them when they should probably have it. I run strictly by RAW - so if I discover that I'm making a mistake, I'll fix it.

[1of3]

Do you use Inspiration?

[emeraldstreak]

I'm DMing a game. They are getting tore up in the module I'm running. I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen. We've had two characters almost die in the first session (two failed death saves each) and today should have been a TPK. I worked with them to let one player escape, finagled some things, and it ended up that 3 characters just ended up getting looted by the Kobolds.

But I've noticed something: The Kobolds always have advantage. The players ... never.

They are currently level 1. What ways are there for them to get Advantage? I really feel like I'm missing something. I couldn't even find in the book where something like flanking would give advantage. I've read threads on here where people are talking about mid-high level PCs always having it and I'm just not seeing it. Maybe this is a case where I'm being a bad DM because I can't find any ways in the rules for the players to get advantage so I'm not giving it to them when they should probably have it. I run strictly by RAW - so if I discover that I'm making a mistake, I'll fix it.

TPKing against Kobolds is completely normal for parties that don't properly tank 5e.

There are many ways to gain Advantage, but the coolest is to ride the party Moon Druid into battle with Mounted Combatant.

[tcrudisi]

Do you use Inspiration?

Hah. Well, we're supposed to use it. I told them about it in the first session and ... no one has used it so far. I completely forgot about it this session, too, so I couldn't even remind them.

But considering episode 1 in this module is just combat, combat, combat, combat, and a few more combats ... there's no real way for them to gain their inspiration back.

[Sartharina]

Hah. Well, we're supposed to use it. I told them about it in the first session and ... no one has used it so far. I completely forgot about it this session, too, so I couldn't even remind them.

But considering episode 1 in this module is just combat, combat, combat, combat, and a few more combats ... there's no real way for them to gain their inspiration back.

Inspiration is gained through roleplaying. Roleplaying doesn't strictly require social interaction. You can gain inspiration through roleplaying in combat.

[Strill]

Melee attackers have advantage against prone enemies. Barbarians have advantage when they use Reckless Attack. Wolf-totem barbarians just straight-up give all nearby melee attackers Advantage, no strings attached. Characters with Familiars can have their Familiar use the Help action to provide advantage. Being hidden gives advantage. Being a Trickster cleric with an active illusion gives advantage. Battlemaster's Distracting Strike and Feinting Strike give advantage.

What classes are your characters? I imagine there's probably something else at play beyond the lack of advantage. For example, if your sneaky party is not getting surprise rounds for catching the enemy unaware, that's probably a big deal.

[Rallicus]

Advantage isn't the problem. The Adventure Path is.

Don't be discouraged. I'd go as far as to say that HOTDQ is literally impossible without the aid of DM fudging and fiat. The path was released prior to the current encounter building rules (meaning that they thought that 6 kobolds would be a "Medium" encounter; not a "Hard" one, for example.)

Yes, 5e is difficult at low levels. But not properly building encounters, and basing them off CR instead of XP makes it even more ridiculously difficult.

Keep this in mind when running HOTDQ.

[Spacehamster]

I'm doing lost mines for a group of friends and was wondering what level party hoard is for cause should get that book in a couple of days. :)

[BW022]

I'm DMing a game. They are getting tore up in the module I'm running. I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen. We've had two characters almost die in the first session (two failed death saves each) and today should have been a TPK. I worked with them to let one player escape, finagled some things, and it ended up that 3 characters just ended up getting looted by the Kobolds.


Yes... HotDQ is an extremely tough module. Most campaigns/modules would allow players to slowly ease into combat with lots of easy combats, safe places to rest, etc. HotDQ starts with literally waves of creatures. As a DM... you should alter the difficulty of encounters as necessary.



But I've noticed something: The Kobolds always have advantage. The players ... never.


Kobolds get advantage through 'Pact Tactics'. They gain advantage provided that one other kobold is within 5' of the creature. This is not an ability which players could get... unless they are playing as kobolds.

As a DM you can mitigate this by:
* Don't have the kobolds all gang up on the same PC. Spread them out.
* Have them start 50' back or so, such that the PCs get a round or two of missile weapons, spells, or move into better positions.
* Have some of them stay back an use missile weapons against those not in melee.
* Have the kobolds run when they get down to half... rather than fighting to the dead.
* Secretly, don't use the advantage.
* Include less kobolds.

Players can mitigate these by:
* Not bunching up.
* Moving (provided they have initiative) and using missile weapons.
* Using area spells/abilities against the kobolds. Thunderwave, dragonborn breath, sleep, etc. They only have 5hp.
* Concentrate attacks on those kobolds where there are two or more near a PC.
* Talk to, confuse, or stall to allow PCs to move into better positions.
* If you are at the tank... try getting as many kobolds on you and then go defensive. That negates advantage. Let the other PCs do the damage.
* Toss up a spell such as fog cloud. You'll end up with disadvantage, but it negates all their advantage.
* Shove attacks to get a kobold away from you. (However, with only 5hp, its often easier to just damage/kill them)



They are currently level 1. What ways are there for them to get Advantage? I really feel like I'm missing something. I couldn't even find in the book where something like flanking would give advantage. I've read threads on here where people are talking about mid-high level PCs always having it and I'm just not seeing it. Maybe this is a case where I'm being a bad DM because I can't find any ways in the rules for the players to get advantage so I'm not giving it to them when they should probably have it. I run strictly by RAW - so if I discover that I'm making a mistake, I'll fix it

There are ways to get advantage. They just aren't typically highly situational.
* Sleep spell and then attack them while asleep.
* Trip and then have another PC attack them from within 5' while prone.
* Attack while hiding, invisible, etc.
* Spells which blind your limit vision (darkness and a drow or warlock with eldritch sight).
* Spells which incapacitate someone. Such as hold person, webs, etc.
* Using your inspiration point.
* Assassin rogue with initiative.

Most of these don't apply to 1st-level (or most low-level) PCs. The typically don't apply in the early fights of HotDQ simply because the start doesn't really allow hiding, ambushes, etc.

[Ramshack]

Advantage isn't the problem. The Adventure Path is.

Don't be discouraged. I'd go as far as to say that HOTDQ is literally impossible without the aid of DM fudging and fiat. The path was released prior to the current encounter building rules (meaning that they thought that 6 kobolds would be a "Medium" encounter; not a "Hard" one, for example.)

Yes, 5e is difficult at low levels. But not properly building encounters, and basing them off CR instead of XP makes it even more ridiculously difficult.

Keep this in mind when running HOTDQ.

It's funny but my group literally had no problems running this. Our DM even gave us a ton of encounters. At least 4 patrols on the way to the keep, another 4 or 5 at the keep, another 2 or 3 on the way to the mill. It was insane. Yet we cleared it relatively easily. By XP standards we should have been almost level 4 by the end of it. We had a Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Cleric. The ranger was a Dual Crossbow build, Paladin and cleric were sword and board and barbarian was using a maul. With 3 front line fighers we were able to spread out the kobold swarm and the ranger would try to pick off kobolds when they started grouping on one person and always tried to make sure there was never more than 1 kobold per character so they rarely got pack tactics against us. The paladin was also a dragon born and made 1 group of 6 kobolods just disappear.

[Rallicus]

It's funny but my group literally had no problems running this. Our DM even gave us a ton of encounters.

Still have a hard time believing this. Barring some consistently amazing rolls by the players and terrible, terrible rolls by the DM, I just can't see the Adventure Path being completed RAW.

This is all theoretical, of course. I could be completely off-base. I've only read the module, never personally ran it (not a huge fan of running Adventure Paths; always preferred creating my own campaigns), so I probably shouldn't even be giving my opinion. It just seems unlikely that anyone can survive the onslaught that is the first chapter of HOTDQ, given the little time to rest and the completely imbalanced encounters they throw at you.

Did your DM roll out in the open?

[Ramshack]

Still have a hard time believing this. Barring some consistently amazing rolls by the players and terrible, terrible rolls by the DM, I just can't see the Adventure Path being completed RAW.

This is all theoretical, of course. I could be completely off-base. I've only read the module, never personally ran it (not a huge fan of running Adventure Paths; always preferred creating my own campaigns), so I probably shouldn't even be giving my opinion. It just seems unlikely that anyone can survive the onslaught that is the first chapter of HOTDQ, given the little time to rest and the completely imbalanced encounters they throw at you.

Did your DM roll out in the open?

I believe most rolls were out in the open, only the ranger dropped below 0 hit points once and got a heal the next turn. And our barbarian got owned by the Half Dragon at the end. But let's be honest, everyone gets owned by the half dragon at the end lol.

Our Human Barbarian had Great Weapon mastery and usually killed 2 kobolds a turn generating his bonus attacks, the human ranger would normally be able to kill 2 kobolds a turn with the crossbow feat. Dwarf Cleric was war domain and could get a few bonus attacks as well. The plan was always kill the kobolds, then ambush drakes then cultists. Most encounters were 4-6 Kobolds and didn't last more than 2 rounds. We took 1 short rest at the keep.

Maybe we just rolled well, but kobolds were 1 shot like 75% of the time.

[MaxWilson]

It's funny but my group literally had no problems running this. Our DM even gave us a ton of encounters. At least 4 patrols on the way to the keep, another 4 or 5 at the keep, another 2 or 3 on the way to the mill. It was insane. Yet we cleared it relatively easily. By XP standards we should have been almost level 4 by the end of it. We had a Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger, Cleric. The ranger was a Dual Crossbow build, Paladin and cleric were sword and board and barbarian was using a maul. With 3 front line fighers we were able to spread out the kobold swarm and the ranger would try to pick off kobolds when they started grouping on one person and always tried to make sure there was never more than 1 kobold per character so they rarely got pack tactics against us. The paladin was also a dragon born and made 1 group of 6 kobolods just disappear.

By "Dual Crossbow" do you mean something other than "two hand crossbows using Crossbow Expert", or did your group start out at level 4+ so the ranger could have a feat? Edit: my bad, I thought the ranger was the dragonborn but it was the paladin.

5E is so stat-dependent that it wouldn't surprise me at all either if 4d6 drop lowest/etc. variants make parties perform at above their "official" level. Plus, some players are just tactically smarter than others.

[emeraldstreak]

It's not about stats, it's about 5e tanking. We had no problems with Heavy armor master paladin, barbarian, and moon druid frontline. AC alone doesnt cut it in this edition.

[MaxWilson]

It's not about stats, it's about 5e tanking. We had no problems with Heavy armor master paladin, barbarian, and moon druid frontline. AC alone doesnt cut it in this edition.

What level is the module supposed to be run at? Somehow I had the impression that it was for first level but if you're using Moon Druids I'm guessing it's at least 2nd, right?

[emeraldstreak]

What level is the module supposed to be run at? Somehow I had the impression that it was for first level but if you're using Moon Druids I'm guessing it's at least 2nd, right?

obviously at 1st lvl the druid didnt do much apart from being knocked out by a flying kobold

we had the party pre-planned based on our playtest conclusions

[tcrudisi]

Inspiration is gained through roleplaying. Roleplaying doesn't strictly require social interaction. You can gain inspiration through roleplaying in combat.

Yeah, and I'm really struggling with this. I played my first session today, did more roleplaying than anyone else, and acted more in character overall than the other players. And I never once received my Inspiration back ... and another guy did 3 times, despite him barely participating. The DM doesn't enjoy my character (Halfling Rogue with the Noble background; I envision him similar to Tyrion Lannister in personality), so I'm not getting my Inspiration back. I really don't like the subjective nature of it; I want something more objective.

The advantage is still getting to me. In the game we started today, we have 2 rogues, a cleric, and a barbarian. Ignoring the once each we all used Inspiration, we never got advantage. It just seems so dang hard to get. Why doesn't flanking give it to you? Or simply outnumbering your enemies in a scrum? (So if there are 3 melees vs 2 enemies, we outnumber them, so we have advantage.) Or something? I'm just not digging this. We keep fighting monsters that have advantage built-in to their stat blocks via Pack Tactics. Its so easy for monsters to get advantage and so dang hard for us to get it. There's got to be something wrong here.

I realize we're playing at level 1 and we'll get more options as the game goes on; I'm just shocked that there's not some way for everyone to get it regardless of class.