PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Stalker Build Advice; Questions Regarding Path of War



Alagos
2014-10-20, 03:35 AM
Hello Playground.

Basic guidelines:
20 point buy
All start level 1
No idea what the campaign setting will be like, but I'm hoping to be prepared for anything our DM throws at us.
Paizo only materials, but 3rd party exceptions can be made if the DM agrees (questions regarding this at the end).
2 starting traits, no flaws.
Any race allowed (though subject to change, based on what kind of campaign he has in mind)
Anything but the race and Soul Hunter archetype are subject to change, including feats, multiclassing, and maneuvers/stances.
Note: The game we ran in the past had several non-optimized characters. We were all relatively new to D&D/Pathfinders, but I love theorycrafting.

The original version of this character was a TWF scout archetype rogue with an emphasis on mobility and high sneak attack damage. But once I found the Path of War, I instantly fell in love with the concept of the stalker, and the soul hunter even more so. At the expense of pure optimization, I went with the following build. Use of the class and maneuver system hasn't been officially allowed by the DM, but it's such a cool concept that I think I could win him over.
My goal is to be a highly mobile striker capable of attacking with both fists and blades, dishing out damage even while moving (Panther Style) while remaining as untouchable as possible through high AC and class features. I went with the Soul Hunter archetype because the Soul Claiming mechanic feels a hellova lot less convoluted than the Deadly Strike mechanic that the normal Stalker gets. It also avoids relying on crit-fishing/flatfooted attacks. And its just really frickin cool! Going to be acting as the party scout, trap disarmer, and hunter through the use of soul claiming. Going to initially be using a finessed rapier/shortsword combo, with spiked gauntlets to be upgraded to spiked armor for Broken Blade maneuvers. IUS at lvl 2 from Monk.

Firstly, huge thank you to Elricaltovilla for his inspiring guide on the Stalker. I wonder what his take on the Soul Hunter archetype is.

Chase's purpose in the world is the hunt. But he is no ranger, nor is he a tracker of any ordinary kind. He hunts in a different manner. The ordeals of his past granted to him a very unique ability: he preys on souls. He possesses a strange vision that can pierce into any soul, man or otherwise, and claim it for his own. Through this capture, he can find this claimed soul, no matter where it hides or how far it flees. And with every blow he lands, it sends ripples of agony through his prey's very existence. Few pains come close to the torment that consumes them. With this deadly ability, he seeks to maintain balance between the forces of life and death. He is an agent of a secretive order, tasked by the gods of death and subterfuge to ensure that no other deities or beings of power gain a significant influence over the Material Plane. This order has a strict code, one that he adheres to unless reason and circumstances demand otherwise.

His greed and ambitions go as far as strengthening himself and his odds of succeeding. If he deems it necessary, he will not hesitate to kill anyone to further his agenda, though he will avoid the killing of innocents as much as he can. The Code demands certain standards, and should he break them, the gods who reign over him would be most displeased. The laws of cities and nations mean little to him, save as barriers between him and his objectives, and tools to be used against his prey. He knows his strengths lie in deception and secrecy. None know of his true purpose, and that element of surprise works to his advantage. He is very secretive about his past, and will only reveal enough to intimidate or fool others. He is rarely one to joke, and often only finds amusement in the misfortune of others. He is otherwise soft spoken, and willing to lend his wisdom when the task demands it. He carries a deep sympathy for those like him, discriminated for nothing more than circumstance of birth. Bravery is respected, and proficiency in battle even more so. He is a student of the arts of death, and is wise enough to heed any lesson, no matter the source. For every soul he reaps, a cold whisper escapes his lips, in a language unknown to all but a few. The words are brief, but a sense of dread drips off of each of them like the blood off his blade. His actions are often direct and swift, no matter the circumstances. An aura of silent competence surrounds him, and is defined with every step he takes. He is fluid in combat, able to weave through bodies and blades with equal ease. When he so chooses, he becomes a whisper in the dark. One could guess he was raised by feral cats by the way he prowls in the shadows. Only the briefest glimmer of his golden red eyes betray his presence.

His appearance is as distinctive as his purpose. He is of average stature for a tiefling. His skin is a light almond color, similar to elven races found in the south. But any other similarities end there. His head is shaved bald, but for a single braid of dark silver hair running down the back of his neck, and ending between his shoulder blades. It is studded with tiny beads of polished obsidian too numerous to count, hinting at some occult meaning. A ring of short, scaly horns obtrude from above his brow, circling his entire head, below which is a lean, severe countenance. His ears have hardened tips, but are otherwise elf-like in shape. His entire body is honed and strengthened by the practice of his deadly arts. His skin has a rigidity akin to scales, though they still possess the likeness of flesh. His torso and arms are tattooed with strange symbols, and although much of their meaning is unclear, it grants him an aura of menace and lethality. A single, small tattoo adorns his forehead, just above his eyebrows. It is an eye, the lids half closed, with three crimson lightning bolts piercing the iris, the middle longer than the others. They slash through the edges of both eye lids. His own eyes are a piercing golden red, passed down through his fiendish ancestry. They are eyes that miss nothing, scrutinizing the world through a lens of deep wisdom and hard lessons. He wears a tunic and pants of a fine black leather which seems to consume the light. A hood of similar quality covers his braided head, casting shadows down to his grimacing lips. His sleeves almost reach to his wrist. The small gap displays the tails of tattoos coiling up his shoulders. His hands are bare, the knuckles armored in rough scaled thorns. The right hand is adorned by a single large ring of strange design, flaunting neither wealth nor affection. Its function is as mysterious as the rest of him. Supple leather boots cover his feet. He wears a traveler's backpack of distinctive quality which leans to the right, and he bears a pouch at his waist. A quiver of arrows and other bits of gear cling tightly to straps or hooks on his pack. A rapier of elegant, magnificent craftsmanship hangs from his left hip, twinned by a shortsword of brutal design on his right. Their razor's edges gleam in the light. A shortbow of simple design hangs on the left side, ready to be grasped in an instant. Other armaments can be seen strapped to his belt, each with their own purpose.


The Build:
Soul Hunter Stalker 1 / Master of Many Styles Monk 2 / Soul Hunter X
Links for reference:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker/stalker-archetypes/soul-hunter-stalker-archetype


Stats: Asura-Blooded Tiefling
10 STR
18 DEX
14 CON
10 INT
16 WIS
8 CHA

Notable racial traits: +1 natural armor, +5 fire resistance, at-will Deathwatch as an SLA (for flavor and functional purposes), Darkvision 60ft, +4 Bluff when lying (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deathwatch)
Other traits: Reactionary +2 initiative, Dangerously Curious +1 UMD and UMD is a class skill (for added utility and self-buffing later on, and more flavor)
Feats:
(1)Weapon Finesse
(1)Two-Weapon Fighting
(2-Monk) Panther Style
(3-Monk) Panther Claw
(3) Deadly Agility
(5) Extra Stalker Art
(7) Extra Reading Maneuver
(9) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting


Now, I was really unsure of feats beyond level 3, so I just picked things that seemed to improve the concept. Really not sure what to do with these. Should I go more towards Weapon Focus to get that to-hit higher? Doing multiple two-weapon attacks hurts my BAB quite a lot, though there are stances later on that overcome that. Or focus more on the unarmed aspect of my character? Maybe take Combat Reflexes and then Panther Parry?


Stalker 1:
Ki Pool: 1+WIS mod+2 bonus from Soul Hunter archetype (6 total at lvl 1)
Stalker Art, Combat Precognition: Spend 1 ki, 1+WIS rounds, every attacker rolls twice, takes worse roll. Immediate action to activate (this is insanely good)
Ki Power: +4 perception or sense motive, immediate on check
Soul Claiming/Burning: Swift action to claim soul of damaged target, future attacks deal 1d6 additional damage
Maneuver Recovery: No longer full-round action. Whenever a claimed target is reduced to 0 or lower hit points, gain back WIS modifier in maneuvers instantly.
Inner Sphere Stance: +2 AC and Will save when wielding two weapons (does not specify what kind of weapon, so includes IUS)
Note: Also considering Outer Sphere Stance (+1d6 per attack, -2 AC) to help out my damage at low levels, as my Dex-to-hit doesn't come online until lvl 3. Would like feedback on this. Leaves me a bit more vulnerable, but I'd be dealing consistent damage.
Offensive Roll: Acrobatic check vs AC, flatfooted on success, +1d6
Swift Claws: Standard action, hit both weapons
Shards of Iron Strike: Staggered on successful hit
Flurry Strike: Standard action, hit both weapons, can be different targets
Pommel Bash: +1d6 vs flatfooted AC
Disturbing Blow: On hit, -4 penalty on next d20 roll
Monk 1:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Stunning Fist
WIS to AC
Fuse Style (question regarding this at the end)
Monk 2:
Evasion
Stalker 2:
Scent ability, +4 to track soulclaimed targets (don't know why I'd have to track targets I can already sense the exact location of, but oh well. More flavor!)
+1 Dodge AC
Pugilist Stance: +1d6 with unarmed or other Broken Blade discipline weapon (extra damage on Panther Claw!)
Fading Strike: Teleport move speed, make single attack
Stalker 3:
Stalker Art, Critical Edge: +1 to crit range on ANY weapon wielded, even IUS
Stalker Art, Murderous Insight: Spend 1 ki, 1+WIS mod rounds, roll twice on every attack made, use better result. Swift action to activate(as amazing as Combat Precognition)
Bronze Knuckle: Swift action boost until end of round, +2d6 damage with IUS or close weapon, ignore damage resistance. (even more goodies for Panther Claw)
Stalker 4:
Uncanny Dodge
Ghostwalk: Swift action boost, incorporeal until end of round. 6 seconds of walking through walls, avoiding attacks, or reaching into someone's chest and pulling their heart out when it ends. Khamilaaaaaaaa...KHAMILAAAAA....
Altered Penumbra: Immediate counter, stealth vs perception roll, if success, teleport 10ft and cast Minor Image that lasts 1d4 rounds; can avoid spells using this


The following levels include much of the same. Heavy focus on Broken Blade, Thrashing Dragon and Veiled Moon disciplines; multiple TWF standard attacks with increasing damage, to-hit modifiers and iteratives, combined with extreme mobility through teleports and running through enemies to trigger Panther Claw attacks for even more damage. Utilizing stalker arts to maximize to-hit through Murderous Insight, and minimize damage taken through Combat Precognition. Leaning towards crit-fishing towards the end, with Improved Critical (unarmed possibly, or shortswords). By higher levels, I'll be the ultimate spy, using at-will teleportation and incorporeality to hunt anyone or anything. Nothing short of an anti-magic field can stop me, but I'll still have mundane stealth, disable device and high damage.

Build Questions:
Should I bother with Monk at all? Or just take IUS, forget the Panther Style tree and focus on other things?

If not monk, would any other multiclass help at all? Note that for initiator level stacking, it must come by 2 levels. (so 2 levels one class, or 1 level of two classes)

If I stick with Panther Style, is using standard action strikes combined with moving and triggering Panther Style a viable tactic? Or am I just asking for trouble?

Should I stack DEX for the improved to-hit and damage, or WIS for the extra ki points and added duration to those amazing ki powers? Or both??

Should I bother with IUS at all, or stick with using pairs of a single weapon type such as a shortsword for the weapon focus feat tree?

For the maneuvers that specifically say it uses an attack with both weapons at full BAB, do TWF penalties still apply? If not, is it worth taking the TWF feat chain?

The stalker art Murderous Insight is worded a bit strangely. It says: "By spending one point of ki as a swift action, the stalker makes an attack and rolls twice for that attack and uses the better of the two results due to the stalker's precognitive abilities. This art has a duration of 1 + the stalker's Wisdom modifier in rounds." It says "an attack roll", not "on any attack roll", which would hint at only a bonus to one attack. But it also has a duration of a minimum 4 rounds for my character with 16 WIS. What's your guys' interpretation of that?

I'm considering the Path of War prestige class Umbral Blade. It would fit my character concept pretty good, and has some very nifty stealth buffs including HiPS. Worth it? Link:http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/prestige-classes/umbral-blade

Broader Question:
The last campaign we played with my DM (and good friend), he said that there was zero 3rd party allowed. Zip. Unless there was a valid and fair reason for doing so. My question is, for a DM accustomed to the usual fighter/rogue/monk etc. mundanes, is the Path of War a bit too strong? Would it overshadow other people's classes? I could find other ways to make this character concept work, but it feels so perfect using Path of War that it just wouldn't be the same. Do you guys consider Path of War or other Dreamscarred Press products balanced enough? I don't want to steal anyone's spotlight, but the concept would be so fun to play.

If you do consider the class or specific features overpowered, which ones would they be and how would you alter them to make it playable at a normally Paizo-only table? I have a suspicion that certain Stalker arts like Combat Precognition might be a bit over the top powerful, but I'd love the Playground's opinion on all this.

Thank you all for reading this far. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Feint's End
2014-10-20, 05:48 AM
In order of your questions:
-panther style definitely has some nice synergy with standard action strikes and getting ius for free is nice too. Personally I wouldn't bother but it is pretty equal in power comparison (although getting maneuvers earlier is somewhat more important so there is that)

-if not monk just go straight stalker

-depending on the situation using panther strike with standard action strikes is a good idea

-You stack dex ...18+5 levels +5 inherent +6 item = 34. WIS is 16+4 inherent +6 item = 26.
DEX is more important overall

-well if you drop monk it's not necessary unless there are some US only maneuvers. The weapon focus tree is horrible though so never take those feats.

-by RAW it only applies to one attack which can be made at any point during those 4 rounds. By RAI I'm not sure. It would be extremely powerful if it applies to every attack. So maybe go with it only applying to 1. POW classes are already very powerful which I'll talk about a bit later.

-Umbral blade hmm. Well I'd just go with straight stalker to be honest but if you fancy it it's not really worse.

-now about Dreamscarred press and POW. Dreamscarred press products are very balanced ... much more than regular Paizo to be honest. Their classes are very close in power overall.
Now are the classes stronger than rogue/fighter etc? Yes they are ... and by a good amount. But the reason why they are stronger and more versatile is because paizo has extreme balancing issues. To say it in other words: while a stalker is much better than a rogue or fighter, he isn't better than a wizard or druid. In fact those classes are still heads and above the POW classes.

- like I said combat Precognition is too much with it applying to every attack .. so maybe rule it only applying to one. Other than that there are some problematic maneuvers for inexperienced dms so just watch out for things you feel are to powerful. Show your dm he can trust you.

Hope I helped.

Alagos
2014-10-20, 04:20 PM
Thank you, yes you helped quite a lot. I'll probably arrange to houserule some things with him in order to keep certain abilities a bit more tame. We've come to agreements in the past about certain things. I'll be sure to bring up your opinion on class balance with him. I've built other Paizo-only characters that I know are more powerful than this guy, namely a melee summoner with insane damage potential early levels, among other fun but effective builds.

If I were to drop monk and IUS altogether, and rely on spiked gauntlets/armor for my Broken Blade maneuvers, what would you advise I take for feats instead? Focus on combat maneuvers (trip, disarm?) or straight damage? Or just get as many maneuvers/stances known and readied as I can through Path of War's specific feats?

Another thought I've considered is mixing TWF and archery feats, and mixing in some Solar Wind maneuvers instead of Broken Blade. Feasible? I know both are very feat intensive.