Stat the Pikemen!

[Olibarro]

5th level.
I'm assuming 14 Str and 14 Con. I'm also assuming they have weapon specialization in Longspear. (I'm assuming they are fighters, but they could also be warriors, which would change things.)

Add:

Potion of Heroism -- +2 to attack
Bull's Str -- +4 Strength
Bear's End -- +4 Constitution
Enlarge -- +2 Str; +1 Size categoryThus, 13 warriors with Strength of 20, Large size, attack bonus of +11, and damage of 2d6+7, not to mention the 20 ft reach.

The hobgoblins have an AC of 15 and very few HP. The pikemen will hit 80% of the time and will almost always deliver an instant kill. If anyone took the Cleave feat, they are totally mopping up.

The hobgoblins, on the other hand, look like they might not even be able to reach the pikemen over that wall, even if one or two do manage to slip past the spears.

So let's see how much damage 13 giant pikemen can do in 13 minutes.

[BisectedBrioche]

At what rate are the Hobbo's approaching?

[Khosan]

Assuming all of them decided to sacrifice the safety of the wall (since not all of them can fit in it at once), they all have Cleave, they don't die, that the hobbos are one-hit instant kills (6 HP versus 2d6+7, so unless one has DR), one attack per round per fighter (might be more), they're not dispelled and they hit exactly 80% of the time:

One in five attacks miss, so out of 130 rounds, they manage to hit (and thus kill) 104 hobbos. Those 104 hobbos cause a bonus Cleave, which hits 80% of the time, meaning 187.2 hobbos killed per soldier. Multiply thirteen because we have that many soldiers.

About 2434 hobgoblins.

EDIT: That's approximate, and only holds if the percentages are obeyed perfectly. Otherwise, I'd just say "A lot".

[grinner666]

It looks like several (well, most) of them do have Cleave, to judge by the many hobgoblin shish-kabobs they're making outta those longspears ... :smallbiggrin:

[Ramos]

Yeah, but their AC vs ranged attacks is lower now. One volley of arrows would be enough to seriously harm them if not take them out.

[BisectedBrioche]

If we assume each of Xykon's 88 legions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0197.html) have 300 HGs. That means a total of 26400 HGs. We then lose 341 to discipline problems (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html) leaving 26059.

2434/26400*100 = about 10% of Xykon's HG army gone.

[grinner666]

Yeah, but their AC vs ranged attacks is lower now. One volley of arrows would be enough to seriously harm them if not take them out.

Nope. Any AC penalty due to size is adjusted by the Cover bonus of the wall. They actually have a better AC now than they would at normal size ... as long as they stay behind that wall. AND they can attack over the wall now, something that wasn't gonna happen before.

Vaarsuvius is a tactical genius.

[grinner666]

If we assume each of Xykon's 88 legions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0197.html) have 300 HGs. That means a total of 26400 HGs. We then lose 341 to discipline problems (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html) leaving 26059.

2434/26400*100 = about 10% of Xykon's HG army gone.

Actually the quote was, "the rest of your 87 legions", not "your other 87 legions." You're one legion off. And he didn't lose those 341 hobgoblins, they were turned into ghouls after being killed ... which actually makes them more effective fighters. But I'm being nit-picky here. And if 13 men can kill 10% of Xykon's army, I have no worries for Azure City.

The world, on the other hand, is in big trouble ...

[BisectedBrioche]

Actually the quote was, "the rest of your 87 legions", not "your other 87 legions." You're one legion off. And he didn't lose those 341 hobgoblins, they were turned into ghouls after being killed ... which actually makes them more effective fighters. But I'm being nit-picky here. And if 13 men can kill 10% of Xykon's army, I have no worries for Azure City.

The world, on the other hand, is in big trouble ...

And to be nitpicky about your nitpickyness (my avatar gives me the right to use neologisms before anyone gets nitpicky about my being nitpicky about being nitpicky) I did specify that it was the hobgoblin element of his army that 10% of was destroyed.

[Kreistor]

Although Vaarsuvius' choice is an efficient method of killing lots of low levels creatures, V has wasted 2 6ths and a 5th to achieve this result. If your goal is to eliminate masses of enemies, then sure, that's a good decision.

But the OotS has to face Xykon, and that fight is going to need all of their power. What good is killing masses of enemies if all you have to face that Lich is masses of low level allies and no heavy hitting spells left.

It's important to keep the eye on the ball in war. You can win every battle but still lose the war. V may yet come to regret the expediture of so much of her power on holding a breach for 12 minutes.

[Snake-Aes]

they have a cover bonus, about half, that overcomes the large size penalty, and if you look at it, the hobbos MUST climb the wall to hit the pikemen
those 13 won't fight at the same time, about 5 per time, so you can safely say that without magic aid that whole hobbo division will fall

[Nightmarenny]

Although Vaarsuvius' choice is an efficient method of killing lots of low levels creatures, V has wasted 2 6ths and a 5th to achieve this result. If your goal is to eliminate masses of enemies, then sure, that's a good decision.

But the OotS has to face Xykon, and that fight is going to need all of their power. What good is killing masses of enemies if all you have to face that Lich is masses of low level allies and no heavy hitting spells left.

It's important to keep the eye on the ball in war. You can win every battle but still lose the war. V may yet come to regret the expediture of so much of her power on holding a breach for 12 minutes.
Yeah but getting Xykon wouldn't mean much if the Hobo's got through the wall and ravaged the city. In war you have to think of present aswell. I think V would be to busy blasting anyway. Durkon has plenty of buffs to deliver the team when the time comes.

[Olibarro]

The giant pikemen can hold the breach well IF this contingent of hobgoblins is merely a distraction (as I'm guessing it is). Thus, the hobbos will be mostly 6hp creatures and very few will have class levels.

However, if Redcloak committed any power to back up this division, they could have spellcasters of their own that would help drive back the pikemen.

But my guess is that they will do extremely well.

[grinner666]

Although Vaarsuvius' choice is an efficient method of killing lots of low levels creatures, V has wasted 2 6ths and a 5th to achieve this result. If your goal is to eliminate masses of enemies, then sure, that's a good decision.

But the OotS has to face Xykon, and that fight is going to need all of their power. What good is killing masses of enemies if all you have to face that Lich is masses of low level allies and no heavy hitting spells left.

It's important to keep the eye on the ball in war. You can win every battle but still lose the war. V may yet come to regret the expediture of so much of her power on holding a breach for 12 minutes.

Uhhhmmmm ... no. First, they beat Xykon handily several adventures ago. Without using any 5th or 6th level spells. Surely they've leveled up at least once since then. Second, even if they take out Xykon (it isn't gonna happen, not at this point) but Azure City's army is destroyed, they've hardly protected the gate, have they? Third, she's already memorized those spells. They're far better used on NPCs who might conceivably wipe out a tenth of Xykon's army that a PC party that really doesn't need them.

[Brettoe]

Lets just say that those pikemen are gonna wipe out a LOT of guys!
sorry Xykon!

[RobbyPants]

5th level.
I'm assuming 14 Str and 14 Con. I'm also assuming they have weapon specialization in Longspear. (I'm assuming they are fighters, but they could also be warriors, which would change things.)

Actually, I think they can squeek out an additional +1 to hit (nice!) and an extra +2 to damage (overkill at this point): I would think that a 5th level fighter (using the standard elite array from the 25-point-buy) would have a Strength of 16 (start at 15, +1 at level 4). This would make the modified Strength a 22 (+6 mod) instead of a 20 (+5 mod).

Assuming the math on everything else is correct, that bumps them up to hitting 85% of the time.

Althogh maybe they were just using the warrior array instead of the elite array... who knows...

[kialos]

All V needs is the Spell ‘Siphon’ from complete scoundrel. 5 charges from a wand will turn into a spell slot of the same level as the spell the wand is suppose to cast…

I’m sure he can commission as many wants as he wants…

I few fireball wand would work wonders on the battlefield as well…

and lets all keep in mind that the spell Enlarge person (I looked it up) Increases with the level of the caster...

[Halfling_Daniel]

Although Vaarsuvius' choice is an efficient method of killing lots of low levels creatures, V has wasted 2 6ths and a 5th to achieve this result. Trivial nitpick: Mass Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePersonMass.htm) is a level 4 spell, not a level 5 one. That means he hasn't cast any level 5 spells himself, seeing how the three Dismissal scrolls don't count at all.

[BardicLasher]

And all of V's best spells are level 3 anyway... Fireball. Fireball. Fireball.

[Snake-Aes]

Watch out for disintegrate then, just it's useless in a war scale
Of course, he could always use a widened fireball

[the_tick_rules]

well as the current thread indicates he's trying to sneak b toy the throne room and not do anything. he's one of the mages who believe combat is beneath him.

[Studoku]

Watch out for disintegrate then, just it's useless in a war scale

It's not useless when theres a zombie dragon flying around.

[Snake-Aes]

Re read my statement, what part of war scale didn't you understand?

(Xykon vs OOTS != war scale)

[brian c]

and lets all keep in mind that the spell Enlarge person (I looked it up) Increases with the level of the caster...

The only things that increase is the number of people affected and the range of the spell (how far away someone can be for you to still be able to enlarge them). That's why there's another thread that says the strip shows V is exactly level 13 because he enlarged 13 soldiers.

[Ronsian]

I seem to think this was a VERY good thing for Varsuvius. A few spells and some potions, she just took out a huge chunk of his troops. Plus, after the potions wear off the captain just sends in a couple dozen more troops. In fact, this might do horrors to goblin morale. Imagine if you saw ten or so titans walking around, I would run in the other direction. It'll be fun to see what Redcloak does.