Items that grant no-save area damage?

[Oddman80]

I know i can fill a bag with Fire Stones, or fill a bag with prepped Molotov cocktails or flasks of acid...
But are their any weapons, or items that give continuous area damage... preferably without saves?

We are 20th level. I can one shot anything, if i wanted. My AC is through the roof (84), and my Saves are nearing those possessed by characters in the Deities & Demigod's splatbook. That said - if I had to face myself - I could not kill me. I would need to crit and then crit the confirmation roll, just to successfully deal damage to myself normally...
I am a mundane/melee focused build. However I have enough UMD to use scrolls or wands of pretty much anything... and (if you saw a previous post of mine) money is not a limiting factor right now.

My list of Immunities are as follows:
Grapples (Freedom of Movement)
Invisibile Attackers
Mind Affecting Effects
Non-Leathal Damage
Charm effects
Compulsion Effects
Death Effects
Energy Drain
Negative Energy
Fear
Confusion
Dazed
Exhausted
Fatigued
Nauseated
Sickeneds
Staggered
Stunned
Suffication/Drowning


Also: Energy Resistance 30/attack of all energy types.

So other than just pulling out no-save, damage dealing spell scrolls, from an infinite scroll case...
Any ideas of how to make sure I could defeat an opponent as maxed out as me?

I know i can start sundering things on an opponent - but that will just mean the DM will start sundering my goodies :(

Thoughts?

[Fouredged Sword]

I think you would fall to a mailman build, as near unlimited raw HP damage will kill anything, and a mailman doesn't miss.

[Odessa333]

Nice AC! My own 'absurd' level 20 character only has 65 AC, so maybe I should be taking notes here...



Anyone, as far as I know, items that deal damage and don't give saves tend to be weak like the vial of acid you mentioned. For myself? When dealing with heavily powered foes like this, I find ways to get around the AC and such.

For AC, consider things like carrying a spare Brilliant Energy weapon which ignores an opponents armor and shield bonus'. Not enough? Get your foe flat footed and/or deny them their dex as well (there are a lot of ways to do this, though I am fond of confounding tumble deed as it gives your foe the illusion of having a way to stop you) and now your opponent is losing it's armor, shield, and dex bonus. That tends to weaken even the highest of AC's, and allow you to do your damage, which as you said makes things dead. Just a suggestion!

[Fouredged Sword]

Also, a staff with Surge of Fortune and a Vaporal weapon could kill you, no save and three rounds of actions. Mix in a scroll of timestop and you are dead in a round. Double Surge of fortune auto activates Vaporal, and I don't see immunity to crits in your build.

[Vogonjeltz]

So other than just pulling out no-save, damage dealing spell scrolls, from an infinite scroll case...
Any ideas of how to make sure I could defeat an opponent as maxed out as me?

I know i can start sundering things on an opponent - but that will just mean the DM will start sundering my goodies :(

You could also get immunity to crits and precision damage via Fortification.

But how to go about taking a mirror image of you down? It would seem you're still vulnerable to dispelling (of freedom of movement for example) or Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Disarming of weaponry/shield (or grabbing of things like rings/amulets, loosely secured items).

Those all seem like plausible starting points. Do you have a ranged attack? If not, that's problematic. Falling damage is conceivably a problem.

A rust monster/various oozes could plausibly destroy all your gear. Anyone using touch attacks (I believe brilliant energy weapon + feint was mentioned).

[Oddman80]

Also, a staff with Surge of Fortune and a Vaporal weapon could kill you, no save and three rounds of actions. Mix in a scroll of timestop and you are dead in a round. Double Surge of fortune auto activates Vaporal, and I don't see immunity to crits in your build.

whoops... yeah, heavy fortification... plus, the campaign has been filled with undead - and other-crit-immune creatures...

That said, how would this work? How would you get the second spell off?

Do you cast timestop, then two castings of Surge of Fortune, and then Roll to attack with a vorpal weapon? since the 1d4+1 rounds of action within timestop all occur within 1 actual round of play - i see how you could do the double spell of Surge of Fortune... but you can't attack with the weapon until the round after which Timestop has ceased (since you cannot make any attacks while in timestop, lest your targets be invulnerable tot he attacks).

So is it: Cast Time Stop, Cast Surge of Fortune x2. Wait for Timestop to cease. On following Round, Attack with Vorpal Weapon - Auto Crit & Auto Confirm.

Not a bad thing to have in my back pocket if that works... In combat, it would really just look like I had cast something with no effect. then the following round KILL SHOT. cool.

[Fax Celestis]

You're not immune to being flat-footed. So if someone surprises you, or gets you to fail the save against something like distract assailant, that should take some out of your AC. Using a brilliant energy weapon, wraithstrike, or Emerald Razor should equally bypass a lot of your AC. Using both would basically make you AC 10 (plus or minus your size and deflection adjustments).

[ShurikVch]

Dorje of fully augmented Celestial Conduit
50 charges
120 ft. line
13d6 (+16 vs. undead) positive energy damage
Reflex halt, PR

[Oddman80]

You could also get immunity to crits and precision damage via Fortification.

But how to go about taking a mirror image of you down? It would seem you're still vulnerable to dispelling (of freedom of movement for example) or Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Disarming of weaponry/shield (or grabbing of things like rings/amulets, loosely secured items).

Those all seem like plausible starting points. Do you have a ranged attack? If not, that's problematic. Falling damage is conceivably a problem.

A rust monster/various oozes could plausibly destroy all your gear. Anyone using touch attacks (I believe brilliant energy weapon + feint was mentioned).

I am currently protected against up to 20 targeted dipels or greater dispels, via a necklace made of slotless rings of counterspells filled with those spells. I tried to do a similar thing with Disjunction, but since its an area of affect, i doubt it will work. I have only 10' tactical immediate teleport - that will only be good so long as I am on the edge of the disjunction, though.

I have a chain contingency spell on me for Raise Dead, Heal, and Heal se to go off if i ever die - should bring me back up to 300 HP.

hmmm... not sure how Falling damage is a danger... i should be able to easily save vs anything falling on me.
and if its a danger of getting grabbed and flown up in the air and dropped... wouldn't that take two rounds to complete? the first round would end establishing the grapple, no? If that's the case, wouldn't i be able to escape the grapple via freedom before getting lifted?

I do have a ranged attack. I have a modified hank's energy bow with splitting, seeking, holy and collision properties on it.

I also modified my last weapon to have Brilliant Energy property on it. Thanks everyone for the ideas, so far. Any more, and i'd love to hear them.

[Oddman80]

Dorje of fully augmented Celestial Conduit
50 charges
120 ft. line
13d6 (+16 vs. undead) positive energy damage
Reflex halt, PR

happy my DM doesn't know Psionics :)

[Fouredged Sword]

whoops... yeah, heavy fortification... plus, the campaign has been filled with undead - and other-crit-immune creatures...

That said, how would this work? How would you get the second spell off?

Do you cast timestop, then two castings of Surge of Fortune, and then Roll to attack with a vorpal weapon? since the 1d4+1 rounds of action within timestop all occur within 1 actual round of play - i see how you could do the double spell of Surge of Fortune... but you can't attack with the weapon until the round after which Timestop has ceased (since you cannot make any attacks while in timestop, lest your targets be invulnerable tot he attacks).

So is it: Cast Time Stop, Cast Surge of Fortune x2. Wait for Timestop to cease. On following Round, Attack with Vorpal Weapon - Auto Crit & Auto Confirm.

Not a bad thing to have in my back pocket if that works... In combat, it would really just look like I had cast something with no effect. then the following round KILL SHOT. cool.

Close, I am assuming 3 rounds of time stop, the average roll for timestop. 2 rounds to cast surge of fortune twice, then on the third round you use your move action to move into position and your standard to ready an attack to strike as the timestop ends. You attack before anything can act as the timestop ends. You draw a scroll and read it, then teleport behind your target and cut their head off with a single swing.

Worse still, celerity will let you spam this in one round. Get daze immunity (or not, but you loose efficiency) and you can use a staff with both spells to start the timestop if your opponent's fortification stops your attack. Duck back into timestrop and try again.

I did this with a cleric at high levels once, though he used more native casting and snuck in a inquisition domain supercharged quicken greater dispell magic to deal with fortification armor right before his readied action (you can use a swift action anytime you can use a standard action, so readying an attack allows you to also cast a swift action spell). His caster level check was something like +30, so he cut through most things. There is also a spell that makes undead weak to crits.

His main thing was to pull this trick off 3-4 times per day. Domain spontaneity and the celerity and inquisition domains to make things interesting.

[Vogonjeltz]

I am currently protected against up to 20 targeted dipels or greater dispels, via a necklace made of slotless rings of counterspells filled with those spells. I tried to do a similar thing with Disjunction, but since its an area of affect, i doubt it will work. I have only 10' tactical immediate teleport - that will only be good so long as I am on the edge of the disjunction, though.

I have a chain contingency spell on me for Raise Dead, Heal, and Heal se to go off if i ever die - should bring me back up to 300 HP.

hmmm... not sure how Falling damage is a danger... i should be able to easily save vs anything falling on me.
and if its a danger of getting grabbed and flown up in the air and dropped... wouldn't that take two rounds to complete? the first round would end establishing the grapple, no? If that's the case, wouldn't i be able to escape the grapple via freedom before getting lifted?

I do have a ranged attack. I have a modified hank's energy bow with splitting, seeking, holy and collision properties on it.

I also modified my last weapon to have Brilliant Energy property on it. Thanks everyone for the ideas, so far. Any more, and i'd love to hear them.

I meant if they used a method of making you fall x feet to suffer falling damage.

For example, opponent casts Time Stop and disintegrates the ground for 5 stories below you, making you fall. Bonus points if they do this on some kind of cloud city.

You could take massive damage and fail your save instantly killing you (unless I have forgotten some means of not dying to that).

I'd still say disjunction followed up by an actual offense, that will remove any contingencies. (I'm impressed you DM let you put rings on a loop and call it a necklace, that's fairly unusual.)

Opponent could also imprison you in a Forcecage and then completely surround that with something impenetrable, permanent walls of force I suppose.

[Oddman80]

I meant if they used a method of making you fall x feet to suffer falling damage...
...Opponent could also imprison you in a Forcecage and then completely surround that with something impenetrable, permanent walls of force I suppose.
....I'd still say disjunction followed up by an actual offense, that will remove any contingencies...
...I'm impressed you DM let you put rings on a loop and call it a necklace, that's fairly unusual...

Fall damage is limited to a max of 20d6.
Wouldn't kill me. And I have a phoenix cloak. So, perfect fly maneuverability. Shouldn't be affected by fall.

Couldn't I just teleport out of a force cage? I have teleport scrolls, the cloak of mysterious emergence, as well as the 10' ddoor trinket... Baring a force cage surrounding an AMF, I should be okay there.

I have no clue how to counter disjunction.... Other than through a contingency spell (time stop?)... I guess I can switch to that, since it is a bigger single threat, than anything else mentioned...

As far as DM "letting me"... The DM dropped a Diamond the size of a human head on our party. Never told us the value. For fun I figured it out, assuming he would rule 0, and assign a value. The DM did not... Instead he granted us the wealth per my math... It came out to approx 82 million gold pieces per PC.

We've been allowed to buy anything. There are a ton of things the DM should not have allowed... But we've reached the final chapter, and now we're playing optimization rocket tag. He's modding the encounters... We just took out 15 Cr 17 wendigo's (600 hp each)... We were playing with them like a cat with a mouse... Only damage taken was by a rangers animal companion (unconscious due to charisma damage) and my Intelligent, VOP Dire Tiger Wild Cohort... But that was like, one hit for 20 hp damage...

The game is probably broke beyond repair due to the ridiculous wealth... But we all are just trying to survive whatever the worst is that he can throw at us

[XionUnborn01]

As far as DM "letting me"... The DM dropped a Diamond the size of a human head on our party. Never told us the value. For fun I figured it out, assuming he would rule 0, and assign a value. The DM did not... Instead he granted us the wealth per my math... It came out to approx 82 million gold pieces per PC.


He's not saying it's impressive because it's expensive. It's impressive because there's no example or it being in the rules to throw rings on a chain and let it count as a necklace.

Basically your DM is letting you do something way off base of normal because that's certainly not something that usually is allowed.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Close, I am assuming 3 rounds of time stop, the average roll for timestop. 2 rounds to cast surge of fortune twice, then on the third round you use your move action to move into position and your standard to ready an attack to strike as the timestop ends. You attack before anything can act as the timestop ends. You draw a scroll and read it, then teleport behind your target and cut their head off with a single swing.

Worse still, celerity will let you spam this in one round. Get daze immunity (or not, but you loose efficiency) and you can use a staff with both spells to start the timestop if your opponent's fortification stops your attack. Duck back into timestrop and try again.

I did this with a cleric at high levels once, though he used more native casting and snuck in a inquisition domain supercharged quicken greater dispell magic to deal with fortification armor right before his readied action (you can use a swift action anytime you can use a standard action, so readying an attack allows you to also cast a swift action spell). His caster level check was something like +30, so he cut through most things. There is also a spell that makes undead weak to crits.

His main thing was to pull this trick off 3-4 times per day. Domain spontaneity and the celerity and inquisition domains to make things interesting.

Activating the "natural 20" effect of Surge of Fortune takes an immediate action, so you can't use it more than 1/round.

[Khedrac]

I am currently protected against up to 20 targeted dipels or greater dispels, via a necklace made of slotless rings of counterspells filled with those spells.There are lots of other dispel magic variants that you are vulnerable to then.


I have a chain contingency spell on me for Raise Dead, Heal, and Heal se to go off if i ever die - should bring me back up to 300 HP.Remember that Raise Dead will only work if you are killed by Hit Point damage - anything else and the spell fizzles.

How are you on Stat Drain/Damage? - It's not all negative energy or death effects.

[Taveena]

Hail of Stone is a fun little metamagic vehicle. No save. No SR. No attack roll. Mind, without immunity to Force damage or high enough spell resistance, you're going to take a loooot from a metamagicked up Wings of Flurry, even on a successful save. Sure, you're not dazed, but a Twinned Maximized Empowered Wings of Flurry from a caster at CL 20 is a painful 180 damage... on a successful save. (And there are ways to remove SR from this equation.)

[Oddman80]

He's not saying it's impressive because it's expensive. It's impressive because there's no example or it being in the rules to throw rings on a chain and let it count as a necklace.

Basically your DM is letting you do something way off base of normal because that's certainly not something that usually is allowed.

There are examples in the rules for making items slotless (2x cost). I bought a bunch of slotless rings, and had them fashioned into a necklace for convenience. The necklace does not, however take up the neck slot.


The campaign ended last night with an epic final battle. The DM selected some well designed supernatural abilities for his BBEG. It was by far the most tactical battle we had in the entire campaign. The counter dispel necklace worked quite well. After 3 attempts failed, the BBEG moved on to other tactics.... Such as convincing the evil necromancer in our party to join her side.

Before the night was over, I found myself single handedly taking on the BBEG, her Summoned Huge Dragon, the Party's Cleric 10/Bone knight 10, and all the undead that was under his control - including a grey Elf Mummy Rogue 20, the necromancer's fiery, skeletal nightmare steed, and my own Intelligent VOP Dire Tiger wild cohort (which had been slain in the previous battle, and resurrected as a Dire Skeleton Tiger under the necromancers control)...

Yeah... I was really kicking myself for spending a good chunk of my weekend helping the necromancer player gear up his mummy, steed, and self to a level nearing what I had done for myself.

The Brilliant Energy weapon came into play quite a bit (DM decreed it worked on undead to keep things fair.

Had to use scrolls of timestop a few times. Was able to drop an antimagic field on the Bone Knight (yay scrolls) and ready a Shck Trooper charge attack when the spell timestop ended.

Rogue was completely nullified due to heavy fortification.

The staff came out a few rounds later as I vorpal'd the dragon (thank you for the combo)

Was able to slowly take out the BBEG through opportunity attacks do to ridiculous reach and mage slayer feat. Otherwise she kept bouncing all over the map with immediate action dimension doors.

My dire tiger, I did not kill... I just kept tripping her, to keep her from attacking. When the Bone knight died, she was no longer driven by evil madness... We might not have the same tight relationship we has before... But we're going to give it a try....

Fin.

[Vogonjeltz]

I have no clue how to counter disjunction.... Other than through a contingency spell (time stop?)

There is no counter to Disjunction (other than to actively counterspell as it is being cast). Once cast, it is too late. It's not targeted, Contingencies would be destroyed and could never take effect.


There are examples in the rules for making items slotless (2x cost). I bought a bunch of slotless rings, and had them fashioned into a necklace for convenience. The necklace does not, however take up the neck slot.

I think this terminology is the source of the confusion. Magic Rings are strictly limited to 2. Technically, by being slotless items, those aren't actually Magic Rings per se (regardless of what they look like or what abilities they have).

Congratulations on the successful conclusion to your campaign! :)