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View Full Version : Negating See Invisibility (and arena build advice)



MilesTiden
2014-10-21, 12:30 AM
So, in an upcoming arena type game, I'm going to be playing a 1st level Pixie Warlock. Obviously, her go to style of fighting is going to be popping Greater Invisibility, and spamming various things while invisible. However, I am looking for ways to get around See Invisibility and other such abilities. (We're a bit low level for True Seeing right now, but I know at least one person uses Touchsight.) My first thought was Spellblade, but that only works on targeted abilities. Spell Immunity doesn't work, along the same lines. Oh, and I suppose I should get some general build advice, while I'm at it.

Pixie Warlock 1 (5th level character)

Stats (36 PB):
Str - 8
Dex - 22
Con - 16
Int - 18
Wis - 18
Cha - 22

Feats:
1st - Attune Magic Device (For magic missile spamming)
Flaw - Improved Flight (Because flight rules are enough of a headache that I want Perfect maneuverability)
Flaw - Flyby Attack (Because yes)
Race - Dodge
Race - Weapon Finesse

(Flaws are noncombatant and slow)

Invocation:
I've been waffling between See the Unseen and Darkness. Darkness technically solves the See Invisibility issue... but also gives a big 'I Am Somewhere In Here' marker. See the Unseen is generally useful, and keeps me from being stalled out through similar methods.

Equipment: (20,000 GP to spend)
CL 9 Wand of Magic Missile - 6750 GP
Tan Bag of Tricks - 6300 GP
Psionic Tattoo of Inertial Armor - 100 GP
Psionic Tattoo of Force Screen - 100 GP
Psionic Tattoo of Concealing Amorpha - 300 GP

So this gives me 6450 GP to work with. If there's nothing specific I need, I'll probably end up grabbing another Bag of Tricks. We get two prep rounds at the start of each match, so I can use that to bring out the two critters, and buff up afterwards. Then, I'll use my Wand of Magic Missile from out of reach. With my 9 HP, if I get hit once I'm down, so it's all about mitigating that one hit. Is there anything wrong mechanically? Tactically? Oh, and here's the list of allowed sources: Core, PHB2, Completes, MMs 1-4, EPH, Tome of Battle, Spell Compendium, Libris Mortis, and Unearthed Arcana.

MilesTiden
2014-10-21, 10:35 AM
Anyone? Or is there no real way around it. :smalleek:

RolandDeschain
2014-10-21, 11:00 AM
I feel like Invisible Spell shenanigans would probably work.

MilesTiden
2014-10-21, 12:15 PM
Invisible Spell is from a disallowed source, and also wouldn't work because I don't cast spells of any sort. My invisibility is supernatural, and everything else is spell-like. Thanks for the suggestion though, Invisible Spell is always great fun.

Thiyr
2014-10-21, 12:32 PM
Yea, unfortunately for you the typical solution I've seen is casting an invisible obscuring mist (or something similar. I seem to remember there being one that followed you around). Other than that, you're stuck with dispelling. You could also double up with mundane hiding for when you know it's coming, but that might not be quite what you're looking for.

Dalebert
2014-10-21, 02:03 PM
Given that Invisible Spell is pretty iffy as a mm feat. Also, it doesn't exist in PF. It still seems like there ought to be something like invisible Obscuring Mist. It's useful for a very specific thing but is it really that powerful? What level would you decree a spell researched to do just that?

Spore
2014-10-21, 02:33 PM
Isn't Nondetection typically used to counter such simple spells?

deuxhero
2014-10-21, 03:01 PM
Spell Immunity spell? I don't think it works for monsters that naturally see invisible though.

Mind Blank explicitly blocks it, but that's way beyond your level.

MilesTiden
2014-10-21, 03:04 PM
Spell Immunity only works on targeted spells, which means See Invisibility won't ping it. Along those same lines, I think nondetection might actually not work. I'll check with the GMs (I originally discounted it because I though it was 4th level, meaning not potion-able), but it's unclear if See Invisible is actually covered. However, I've done some brainstorming, and come up with a few things. First of all, I could use the Pixie's Permanent Image SLA to cover my hiding spot, which should not be defeated by See Invisibility. Secondly, if I really need it, Dust of Disappearance has a clause that makes it immune to See Invisibility and Invisibility Purge. It's a bit expensive though, and only lasts 2d6 rounds.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-10-21, 03:30 PM
There is no way i know of to negate Blindsight, Touchsight and Mindsight for Invisibility. Hide with Darkstalker works against Blindsight and most detection spells since it's not magical. Remember to use Magic Aura and Nondetection to mask any magical auras on your equipment and yourself.
To avoid Touchsight you'll need to actually be intangible. There is no actual RAW way to avoid Mindsight, though Mind Blank or the Ring of Mind Shielding should work - ask your DM.

Nondetection and Mind Blank can be interpreted to block all divinations with a generous reading, but most DMs i've played with don't play it that way (for good reason imo - uncounterable invisibility would be annoying).

Everything except See Invisibility has a limited range though and can be avoided by staying at a distance. See Invisibility can be countered by hide, dispelling or using something to block sight (darkness, fog/snow/sand/dust/whatever, some other spell or effects).

Also note that ANY invisible creature is noticed with a DC 20-40 spot check and pinpointed with a DC 40-60 check (depending on race and actions, not including modifiers), no matter what precautions you use. Depending on optimization level and opposition this may be a problem you have to take into account.
It is often overlooked but reaching DC 20 is nearly trivial for wisdom-based casters at least, with DC 40 reachable with a little bit of effort.

Werephilosopher
2014-10-21, 03:31 PM
There's cloak of khyber, which blocks even true seeing from piercing magical disguises. Unfortunately it's in one of the Eberron books, I think that's the only guaranteed way of doing it.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-10-21, 03:41 PM
There's cloak of khyber, which blocks even true seeing from piercing magical disguises. Unfortunately it's in one of the Eberron books, I think that's the only guaranteed way of doing it.

Cloak of Khyber needs the disguise to be maintained for 6 hours before it starts working. It also only blocks True Seeing and any way to read alignment. It has no effect on other divination spells.

And invisibility isn't a shapechanging or magical disguise effect imo, so it does absolutely nothing there by my reading. YMMV but the issues mentioned above make it unsuitable anyway, and those aren't really open to interpretation. (The source is City of Stormreach, p.60 btw).

emeraldstreak
2014-10-21, 04:01 PM
on a sidenote, do expect magic missile to be blocked by Shield