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Powerslave44
2007-03-18, 03:07 PM
Hi folks,
I'm a relatively new player to D&D, only played a couple games here and there over the past year or so... but here recently some friends of mine and I have decided that we're going to start playing consistantly with a small tight-knit group, since the last few games we've played in have died out due to games swelling to north of seven or eight players with one DM.

So, we've played three games or so by now and I'm having a blast. Basically got a group of all melee damage, and then the DM is playing a cleric to guide / support the group since noone really wanted to play a healer. I'm running with a human lawful neutral fighter, doing the sword and board bit for now since I figured we'd have the monk and rogue doing enough damage as is while I try to keep everything busy hitting my shield. I've been trying to figure out where to take my character from here, looking through lists of prestige classes from a ton of different books... I'd like to start picking feats out now that'll be useful for wherever I wind up since I've already gotten alot of basics out of the way like power attack, dodge, etc.

After looking at the Frenzied Berserker from the Complete Warrior, I now realize I probably should have picked a barbarian to start with since that's basically what I'd like to end up doing later, killing lots of people with a really big sword. But, since I didn't pick a barbarian, and I'm lawful, I was wondering if any of you could give me advice as to which direction to take my character as far as feats or leading into a prestige class. I'd like to do the big 2h'er bit if at all possible, and if it can be done, deal comparable damage to a barbarian. I'd appreciate any input anyone has, this is my first time really trying to develop a character from the ground up, and I'm hoping I haven't already botched it enough by going with a fighter instead of barbarian.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-18, 03:17 PM
Don't rely on stats so much for right now- you're new to this, and it sounds like you've found yourself a great DM. You're going to do just fine as a pure fighter for now. They can emulate a lot of what you like most about the barbarian anyway.

You might want to think about looking into the knight class to bolster your abilities a little. They're a lawful melee-type that has some neat combat tricks you might like. The paladin class can also net you some cool stuff, and it's core. If you take that route, consider the kensai prestige class.

All in all, have fun with it!

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-18, 03:20 PM
If you want a lot more damage, get a great sword to power attack, plus shock trooper. You will end up doing more damage than the Monk or Rogue if you do that.

For Sword and Board, however, the only PrC that does it(to my knowledge) is the Dwarven deffender. A better way might be the Tactical feat from PH2 that specializes in Sword and Board

Powerslave44
2007-03-18, 04:15 PM
If you want a lot more damage, get a great sword to power attack, plus shock trooper. You will end up doing more damage than the Monk or Rogue if you do that.

Pardon my ignorance, please, but what exactly are you saying here? I thought when power attacking it didn't matter what kind of weapon you were using since how much you could spend on it was based on base attack bonus. And what exactly is a shock trooper?

Thanks for the advice by the way, and I am trying to just let it roll and have fun with it... but the type of person I am, I tend to have just as much fun planning and plotting about what to do with a character in an RPG as I do actually playing the game. It's not that I'm worried about winding up with a weak character or anything like that, I just have alot of fun playing with numbers and tossing ideas around for character possibilities.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-03-18, 04:23 PM
Power attack does work like that- but whenever you use a two-handed weapon, it's effects are doubled. So, if you sacrifice 2 BAB with a two-hander, you get a +4 to damage. Very nifty.

Shock trooper is used in most high-level fighter builds these days, I find. You can find it listed somewhere on here- http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf

daggaz
2007-03-18, 05:47 PM
Not to mention you get 1.5x your str modifier with a two hander as well.

If you want to be a raging berserker, then just start taking levels of barbarian (preferably when you have an even number of fighter levels already, so you at least nab the bonus feat). There really is no point to taking fighter except for getting extra feats and for personally RP reasons. Of course you are lawful, so you should talk to your DM about it and then RP a break away from order... you get sick of the regiment, the rules, the regulations, and your character just wants to break away from everything and pursue his own life and destiny, screw everything else. You should be able to get to at least a neutral alignment without much trouble.

In the end, your character will be better of mechanics wise as well as providing more personal enjoyment for you as well.

One last note, you might try running a martial cleric sometime as well, they are surprisingly effective. Heavy armor, 3/4 Base attack progression, and full spellcasting with some of the best personal melee buffs in the game. I have a dwarf with travel domain (for awesome magey movement spells) and war domain (needed so I could create a quick improved trip build) who is very effective with a halberd. I do far more damage than anybody else in my group, and I'm also the best tank. Best thing is, when I get wounded on the front lines, the healer is always RIGHT there.

greenknight
2007-03-18, 06:23 PM
Sir Giacomo posted a fairly effective Fighter here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2144171&postcount=130). The character shows just 20th level stats, but it should give you a few ideas on how to make your character work long term.

If you can do it without an XP penalty, you might want to consider multiclassing to Paladin after 4th level. Since you have access to Complete Warrior, check out the Cavalier (it's easier to qualify for if you have some Paladin levels, but they aren't essential). If you want to take it, you should talk to your DM about getting a special mount which can fly - a pegasus is probably the best mount, but a griffon is good too. Note that these creatures have very fast movement rates while flying (120' for the Pegasus, 80' for the Griffon), which should help with getting into melee (often a problem for Fighters). But be aware that with both mounts you might have to keep the weight down.

Power Attack is what gives a Fighter their edge, so make good use of it with a two handed weapon. Also be aware that some foes are immune or highly resistant to certain damage types, so carry a few different weapons. If you go the Cavalier route, your main weapons should probably be a Lance and Greatsword, but it would be wise to carry a warhammer and composite longbow as backup weapons. Some foes need to be hit by a weapon made of a certain metal, so it's a good idea to have items made of Alchemical Silver, Cold Iron and Adamantine when you can afford them. The cheapest way is to just have arrows made from those metals, but later on you should try to have a magical Greatsword made of Alchemical Silver and another made of Adamantine (which should probably be your main battle sword).

martyboy74
2007-03-18, 06:36 PM
The other popular method is to pick up Spiked Chain (His Lord the Cheesy's favored weapon) Proficiency, and Combat Reflexes. Stand Still makes this more fun.

Arbitrarity
2007-03-18, 08:04 PM
The other popular method is to pick up Spiked Chain (His Lord the Cheesy's favored weapon) Proficiency, and Combat Reflexes. Stand Still makes this more fun.

I prefer the drow scorpion chain, for Races of Eberron, if you can get it. Same effects, minorly lower damage, larger threat range.

But it's slashing, and so, you can sunder with it. Combat reflexes, stand still, shock trooper, combat brute, leap attack, knockdown, improved trip et voila. 4x damage on a very nasty sunder. Your opponent's weapon goes, you get a free attack. You hit him, you get a trip attempt. You knock him down, you get a free attack. You hit.

Throw in 4 levels of psywar for psionic lion's charge, for more full power attacking fun :)

RandomNPC
2007-03-18, 09:06 PM
someone had to mention the spiked chain.... just know that it is one of the more... strange things you can do to a good DM. If you're going spiked chain don't forget to but potions of enlarge person.

you mention just trying to get things to hit your shield, if you really are the party sword sponge you might just want to take a few cleric levels. then you don't need to wait for healing, and you can buff yourself.

its funny, in tabletop RP sword and board is kind of neglected, in live action combat (im one of THOSE nerds) sword and board rule the day.

Jannex
2007-03-19, 02:39 AM
its funny, in tabletop RP sword and board is kind of neglected, in live action combat (im one of THOSE nerds) sword and board rule the day.

I tend to find that there are a lot of differences in play between tabletop and LARP. In D&D, I don't think I could ever stand to play a cleric, but in LARP? Give me my spellbook and holy symbol and let me hide behind the shield wall! :smallbiggrin:

But yeah, while I don't do much of the combat in LARP, I have observed that sword-and-board is massively effective in combat. Archery, too; I think a lot of the time the bow is undervalued in D&D, but in live action, a couple of archers can win or lose you a battle.

serow
2007-03-19, 03:51 AM
You can also consider using an exotic weapon and going into Exotic Weapon Master for Uncanny Blow.
And since you have Complete Warrior, do make use of it!
Tactical feats can be very useful =)

Rigeld2
2007-03-19, 05:56 AM
Just Shock Trooper (CW), Leap Attack (CA) will get your damage nice and high... after that, try and get an item of Lion's Charge made by a Ranger (anyone can have the crafting feats, as long as the Ranger casts the spell. You could have a Druid cast it, but the base cost will be higher) and it shouldnt cost you an arm and a leg. Yes, its a higher level goal.


High Strength, the Valorous enchantment, and a couple others I cant think of at the moment...

Telonius
2007-03-19, 10:45 AM
Hi folks,
I'm running with a human lawful neutral fighter, doing the sword and board bit for now since I figured we'd have the monk and rogue doing enough damage as is while I try to keep everything busy hitting my shield.


I believe there's a "Goad" feat that makes enemies attack only you. Not sure where it is or the specifications, though. The "Knight's Challenge" does a similar thing.

Rigeld2
2007-03-19, 12:20 PM
Goad isnt worth it - it only works on creatures you threaten, and even then, only makes them dedicate thier melee attacks on you. If they step back they can range attack/spell any of your allies they want.

Telonius
2007-03-19, 12:47 PM
Ugh, never mind then. Knight's Challenge and Test of Mettle is probably more of what you're looking for.

Matthew
2007-03-27, 05:48 PM
Pardon my ignorance, please, but what exactly are you saying here? I thought when power attacking it didn't matter what kind of weapon you were using since how much you could spend on it was based on base attack bonus. And what exactly is a shock trooper?

Thanks for the advice by the way, and I am trying to just let it roll and have fun with it... but the type of person I am, I tend to have just as much fun planning and plotting about what to do with a character in an RPG as I do actually playing the game. It's not that I'm worried about winding up with a weak character or anything like that, I just have alot of fun playing with numbers and tossing ideas around for character possibilities.

You might be playing the 3.0 version of Power Attack. Personally, I preferred it, but the new version heavily empowers the Two Handed Weapon Fighter.

Aramil Liadon
2007-03-27, 09:56 PM
If you intend to keep your role as the armoured sponge, I'd say multiclass to Knight. It's a really fun class, and gets some neat abilities. Further continuing the trend, go Dvarven Defender. If you're not a dwarf, die, get reincarnated, and fudge the roll. Works every time.
If, however, you want to go damage, I'd suggest a heroic sacrifice to hold back the incoming insurmountable kobold hordes/high-level encounter that you didn't do so well on, then having a barbarian meet your party in the next tavern. Or maybe your DM is less conductive to such things.

the_tick_rules
2007-03-27, 10:30 PM
i prefer the more mobile fighters. going dodge, mobility, spring attack is good. the weapon feats like focus, specialiaze and improved crit are always good. if you want a devastating ambush power. leap attack from complete adventurer i think. turns ya -1 attack +2 damage into -1 attack +3 damage as long as you do a jump.

its_all_ogre
2007-03-28, 03:53 AM
leap attack only works on a charge though

Rigeld2
2007-03-28, 05:54 AM
if you do enough damage, you can charge every round.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-28, 06:49 AM
if you do enough damage, you can charge every round.
If you're doing that kind of damage, you should have cleave before leap attack. A whole extra attack is going to do a bit more than +1 damage.

The problem with charging every round is that you never get a full attack. At that point, an archer build is really going to make you look bad by comparison (unless you're doing the ride-by-spirited-charge-lance route). Full attacks are a fighter's friend.

Rigeld2
2007-03-28, 07:15 AM
If you're doing that kind of damage, you should have cleave before leap attack. A whole extra attack is going to do a bit more than +1 damage.
Its actually +1 per BAB you drop with Power Attack.


The problem with charging every round is that you never get a full attack. At that point, an archer build is really going to make you look bad by comparison (unless you're doing the ride-by-spirited-charge-lance route). Full attacks are a fighter's friend.
Theres lots of ways to get a charge+full attack.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-28, 07:24 AM
Its actually +1 per BAB you drop with Power Attack.
Oops. Okay, at higher levels, that is definitely better.


Theres lots of ways to get a charge+full attack.
I'll defer to your expertise on this one -- I'm only aware of the PsyWar method.

Rigeld2
2007-03-28, 07:35 AM
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146

its_all_ogre
2007-03-28, 07:46 AM
you will not get to charge every round.
you win initiative and charge, surviving enemies all engage you in melee. you cannot charge
you lose initiative and enemies engage you. you cannot charge.
cleave first is still a good idea, at least that way you kill two enemies in one charge.
full attacks only pay off better than this tactic at much higher levels in my experience

Person_Man
2007-03-28, 09:02 AM
OK, here is a very strait forward Fighter build that uses nothing but the SRD and Complete Warrior.

Human Fighter 6

You get 8 feats (1 human+3 from levels+4 from Fighter levels)

Feats: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Knock-Down (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html), Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack.

Get any two handed reach weapon and some spiked gauntlets in case someone slips past your reach. Charge an enemy. Shift your full BAB to Leap Attack. Shift the to-hit penalty to AC using Shock Trooper. Hit your enemy for a very large pile of damage. Get a free Trip attempt from Knock-Down. Get a free follow up attack from Improved Trip, hitting your enemy for another large pile of damage. The reach weapon is important, because now your AC is in the crapper. But if anyone tries to move in on you, you get an Attack of Opportunity, hit them for a lot of damage, and get a free Trip attempt and follow up attack, stopping them in their tracks. This also helps ensure that you will have 10 feet of space between you and an enemy, so that you can charge almost every round. If possible, have a friend cast Enlarge Person on you as well, increasing your reach to 20 feet.

You should also note that Frenzied Berserker is a very bad prestige class. Any time you take damage, you have to make a Will Save or go into a Frenzy, thus wasting your most potent limited use per day power the first time you run into a trap or almost any encounter. And then you have a really hard time stopping your Frenzy, unless someone in your party is smart enough to memorize Calm Emotions and lucky enough not to be killed by you before they use it.

its_all_ogre
2007-03-28, 10:45 AM
leap attack is complete adventurer, but i like the build...
my players will meet it one day soon....probably with a halberd.

Person_Man
2007-03-28, 11:06 AM
leap attack is complete adventurer, but i like the build...
my players will meet it one day soon....probably with a halberd.

Whoops, since Leap Attack is pretty much as common as Power Attack, I'd forgotten which book it was in. Thanks.

The halberd isn't a reach weapon though. Without reach, this build fails utterly. I suggest a guisarme.

Or at higher levels, use a lance two handed from horseback/riding dog back with Spirited Charge. That will push your Leap Attack bonus to +9 damage per BAB (with a free follow up attack, with the same damage bonus). You should be able to kill any one enemy per round, provided you can get to them.

Another option is to combine it with Warmind for Sweeping Strike and Psychic Warrior powers (Hustle, Psionic Lion's Charge, etc).

Also, while I love using Trip builds against my PC's, I personally avoid using Leap Attack against them at low levels. Killing a PC in combat once in a while keeps them honest. But killing multiple PC's in combat isn't really fun for them.

Accolon
2007-03-28, 05:15 PM
Stay with a straight fighter and feat yourself to death. Great sword and the power attack feat tree, then move on to another feat tree. Fighters, to me, are one of the most underrated of core classes. Ability bumps to str and con and just wear things out. One of the coolest players in our group right now is a 7th level half/orc fighter going down the 2 weapon fighting tree, spring attack thing, fighting with 2 bastard swords and she's getting like 4 attacks a round on a full round action. Pretty cool stuff. Her player wasn't sure about it, but now she loves her character.

martyboy74
2007-03-28, 05:22 PM
One of the coolest players in our group right now is a 7th level half/orc fighter going down the 2 weapon fighting tree, spring attack thing, fighting with 2 bastard swords and she's getting like 4 attacks a round on a full round action.
Spring attack doesn't allow for a full attack. They only get 1 attack when using Spring attack.

Zincorium
2007-03-28, 05:29 PM
Spring attack doesn't allow for a full attack. They only get 1 attack when using Spring attack.

Tempest PrC or Bounding assault would help to fix this, however.


As far as my advice for a new fighter: Big weapon, power attack, plate mail, and a thorough reading of the rules for combat in the PHB.