Push Ups

[Easy_Lee]

So I just took a look through the rules and noticed push doesn't specify directions. You're capable of pushing a target in any direction by RAW, including straight up.

Why that matters: I'm AFB but I don't think repelling blast or open hand monk flurry limits direction either. Not sure that any DM would allow it, but that would mean monks and warlocks can toss their opponents straight up in the air.

Falling from a great height deals 1D6 per 10' and the target lands prone. It doesn't provoke OA's, but that's a lot of extra power for these two abilities assuming 20 feet or more yeilds falling damage.

Ultimate power: a warlock holds an action to cast EB after his warlock-sorcerer companion casts it. WS uses quicken to cast two, pushing his target 80 feet in the air. W casts it and now the target is 120 feet high. Target takes 12D10 + up to 60, then falls prone and takes 12D6. 168 damage average plus prone, at will. Quite the combo.

Sorry but this was too funny not to post. Have fun talking your DM into allowing it.

[badintel]

I don't think repelling blast or open hand monk flurry limits direction either.

I'm like, 82.5% sure that repelling blast has language in the description that is something along the lines of "the blast pushes the opponent 10' in a straight line away from the caster" or something like that which would preclude choosing the direction of travel for the victim.

[Ferrin33]

"-push the creature up to 10 feet away from you in a straight line."

No sorry, won't work.

[Easy_Lee]

"-push the creature up to 10 feet away from you in a straight line."

No sorry, won't work.

Gotcha, guess the trick is to do it from underneath the target as a lightfoot halfling.

[Ferrin33]

Gotcha, guess the trick is to do it from underneath the target as a lightfoot halfling.

Disadvantage on rolls, but.. yes? That'd work!

More efficient diagonally though, or pushing people off walls/cliffs.

[Mr.Moron]

For some reason these threads always make me thing of this:
"THE RAW!!!!!!!!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glUf4PQ-vuU)

Well, close enough anyway.

[Eslin]

Personally, my favourite idea is a monk grappling and flying with someone, then releasing them and punching them further up in the air. Then the warlock aims a blast at them to get them higher, while the battlemaster fighter fires pushing arrows at them.

Anyone else play super smash bros?

[IAmTehDave]

Personally, my favourite idea is a monk grappling and flying with someone, then releasing them and punching them further up in the air. Then the warlock aims a blast at them to get them higher, while the battlemaster fighter fires pushing arrows at them.

Anyone else play super smash bros?

Or it's the Bahamut scene from FF7:AC


side note: That's almost as good as a 3.5 Duskblade air-juggler.

[Sartharina]

Anyone else play super smash bros?... dammit, now I need to figure out a conversion.

[Eslin]

Ok, distance per turn:

Battlemaster fighter dual wielding hand crossbows can get up to 7 pushbacks at 15 feet each, but this relies on the creature failing strength saves and hitting with 7 of your 9 attacks (action surge, hand crossbow). 105 feet maximum, bonus points for doing it with bolts. Can only be done once a combat.

Warlock (with some sorcerer levels) eldritch blasting, up to 8 blasts at 10 feet each, no save. 80 feet maximum, can be repeated until you run out of sorcery points.

Monk (with maxed strength and dex, some multiclass into battlemaster and thief rogue, plus a feat or class that gives the Jump spell) grapples target, dashes for extra reach, jumps 78 feet into the air (3+str+dex)x2x3, holding target above your head (85 feet), attacks and pushes target once (100 feet). Come to think of it, eldritch blast would probably would better here, giving us up to 140 feet. Most multiclass and stat intensive, but most effective - you're doing an eldritch blast's worth of damage +14d6. You will take 7d8 damage yourself unless you manage to land on them (which should deal an extra 7d8 damage to them, too), but 6 monk levels should about cover removing any damage taken.

Or an elements monk can grapple and fly, which has no real limit, but it halves your speed so your fly speed is only 30 feet. Grapple target with first attack, dash with bonus action, move 60 feet into air, use other attack to knock prone to make the rest easier. Next turn, fly 30 feet, release him, now your movement is 60 feet again, use the next 30 feet to follow him and hit him 3 times further into the air, total of 165/2=82.5 feet per turn average and you get to pretend you're a super saiyan, for bonus points hit him with a fireball when he hits the ground and shout kamehameha.

Edit: You have to balance your actions carefully for the monk technique, since you're using your bonus action to dash and your action to attack. This works fine on your first try of the combat (dash for double movement and double jump distance, use your other attack on pushing attack, action surge and throw out a blast), but past that you'll need haste cast on you and you'll lose 15 feet from not getting that pushing attack. Though you can probably regularly do another 7d6 by landing on him, you'll need some form of aerodynamic clothing to let you glide considering he'll be twice as far in the air as you, you'll need to slow your falling by half (or get a reusable parachute sort of deal and dive bomb him once he drops past you)


Or it's the Bahamut scene from FF7:AC


side note: That's almost as good as a 3.5 Duskblade air-juggler.

Nah, for AC we'll need the PCs all tossing each other up in the air too =P


... dammit, now I need to figure out a conversion.

The conversion exists, it is the monk and fighter and warlock =P

[Person_Man]

Eslin's on the right track with Grapple + Fly or levitate or whatever. Also, when you Grapple an enemy, their relative position to you when you "drag or carry" them is at the discretion of the DM.

Maybe a Warlock/Eldridge Knight? Use your attack to Grapple, then move strait up while holding enemy above you, then Eldritch Blast (with Disadvantage, sadly) to push the enemy 10-40 feet further up, and/or have an ally Ready an action to cast something that pushes them further, using Action Surge to cast Eldritch Blast a second time if you want to push another 10-40 feet further. Between that and your movement, you should be able to clear 20-100 feet, dealing 1d10 + Cha (per Eldritch Blast) + 1d6 for every 10 feet.

It's actually a really cool combo, albeit one that has implausibly insane MAD requirements, and something you can basically only do outdoors.

[Natael]

Eslin's on the right track with Grapple + Fly or levitate or whatever. Also, when you Grapple an enemy, their relative position to you when you "drag or carry" them is at the discretion of the DM.

Maybe a Warlock/Eldridge Knight? Use your attack to Grapple, then move strait up while holding enemy above you, then Eldritch Blast (with Disadvantage, sadly) to push the enemy 10-40 feet further up, and/or have an ally Ready an action to cast something that pushes them further, using Action Surge to cast Eldritch Blast a second time if you want to push another 10-40 feet further. Between that and your movement, you should be able to clear 20-100 feet, dealing 1d10 + Cha (per Eldritch Blast) + 1d6 for every 10 feet.

It's actually a really cool combo, albeit one that has implausibly insane MAD requirements, and something you can basically only do outdoors.

Just gotta make it a team effort:
Monk grabs, makes huge ki + athletics high jump + lets go
Warlock hits ready action with eldrich blast pushing him up more
Fighter fires readied action bow hitting him more

Huge falling damage.

[Yagyujubei]

WotS monk could cheese this also in any dark conditions (night etc.) by grabbing an enemy, jumping at full run, shadow stepping straight up into the air, and suplexing the enemy to great effect.

unless the shadow step doesnt include someone you're grappling when you use it....im AFB so I dont know how the wording is.

[MaxWilson]

Is it weird to anyone but me that you can gain altitude faster by jumping than by flying?

In general 4E speeds are weirdly slow. Horses that Dash can manage speeds of up to 12 mph (120 feet per 6 seconds), which is a jog or slow canter in real life. (Cantering is 12 to 15 mph, galloping is 25 to 30 mph (http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/horse).) Owls are about 5 times as fast in real life as in D&D 5E.

Humans can sprint at least 50% faster than 5E says they can.

[Easy_Lee]

WotS monk could cheese this also in any dark conditions (night etc.) by grabbing an enemy, jumping at full run, shadow stepping straight up into the air, and suplexing the enemy to great effect.

unless the shadow step doesnt include someone you're grappling when you use it....im AFB so I dont know how the wording is.

Oh man, that'd be awesome.

[Person_Man]

WotS monk could cheese this also in any dark conditions (night etc.) by grabbing an enemy, jumping at full run, shadow stepping straight up into the air, and suplexing the enemy to great effect.

What's the wording on Shadow Jump? If its something like 'you step into and move between any two shadows...' I could see DMs allowing it. If its 'you teleport between areas of darkness' or something then I'd say your Grappled enemy drops out of your hands when you teleport.

Balancing the damage output with the rule of cool would be difficult here. On one hand, I want to allow my players to do awesome fun stuff like this. On the other hand, I don't want them dealing 20d6 extra damage at mid levels in every night time out door combat.

[INDYSTAR188]

Gotcha, guess the trick is to do it from underneath the target as a lightfoot halfling.

Then the target is landing on your furry little feet!

[Ferrin33]

What's the wording on Shadow Jump? If its something like 'you step into and move between any two shadows...' I could see DMs allowing it. If its 'you teleport between areas of darkness' or something then I'd say your Grappled enemy drops out of your hands when you teleport.

Balancing the damage output with the rule of cool would be difficult here. On one hand, I want to allow my players to do awesome fun stuff like this. On the other hand, I don't want them dealing 20d6 extra damage at mid levels in every night time out door combat.

It's only a 60 feet range on the Shadow Jump and does cost your bonus action in addition to needing to have someone grappled. As for the wording; "-you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another-", "-you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness."

Just the relevant wording, cut the rest.

[Yagyujubei]

It's only a 60 feet range on the Shadow Jump and does cost your bonus action in addition to needing to have someone grappled. As for the wording; "-you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another-", "-you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness."

Just the relevant wording, cut the rest.

so it says both of them...well I would argue that anything you're holding would travel with you, otherwise you would come out of every shadow step naked. and even if your DM rules that only inanimate objects travel with you, or willing targets, you could just teleport up with a 20/50/100lb object and drop it on them. OR drop yourself on them which would still increase your dmg significantly.

[Easy_Lee]

Now we just need a reliable way to ensure darkness where we want it and this character will be a beast.

[Yagyujubei]

well, you could use the darkness cheese, grab rock > cast Darkness > throw rock up > shadow step to rock and profit. that would require some pretty tough checks though I imagine to get the throw and timing right, but it's one way.

[Easy_Lee]

well, you could use the darkness cheese, grab rock > cast Darkness > throw rock up > shadow step to rock and profit. that would require some pretty tough checks though I imagine to get the throw and timing right, but it's one way.

Would probably want a warlock dip for devil's sight for that build. Could also go further and use a warlock familiar.

[Geoff]

Humans can sprint at least 50% faster than 5E says they can. Clearly, those humans can use their bonus action to Dash.

[Yuki Akuma]

Clearly, those humans can use their bonus action to Dash.

This just in: all professional athletes are either Rogues or Monks.

[Yagyujubei]

Would probably want a warlock dip for devil's sight for that build. Could also go further and use a warlock familiar.

oh man didn't even think of that, that removes the difficult checks. darkness your imp, have him fly above target, bonus action shadow step to him while holding a huge rock, body slam the rock on target or just 60ft drop kick his face.

it would pretty much mean 100% hit chance too. at the very least you would get advantage, and I would argue that it should be an auto hit since you cant really mess up when you're letting gravity do all the work.

and dipping warlock is (imho) obvious for any WotS monk build. the synergy is just too good to ignore.

[MaxWilson]

Clearly, those humans can use their bonus action to Dash.

I'm already counting Dash, otherwise I'd be telling you that 5E humans were 3x slower than real life.

[Easy_Lee]

I'm already counting Dash, otherwise I'd be telling you that 5E humans were 3x slower than real life.

I think the real issue is combat rounds are longer than they ought to be. Should be more like 2-3 seconds IMO. I mean anyone can swing a stick more than once every six seconds.

[Eslin]

This isn't really a simulationist game. The monk jumper mentioned before can, before spells, clear 26 feet off the ground.

[MaxWilson]

I think the real issue is combat rounds are longer than they ought to be. Should be more like 2-3 seconds IMO. I mean anyone can swing a stick more than once every six seconds.

Yeah. I've thought about houseruling one- or two-second rounds; that would make 1-minute buffs last for 30 rounds instead of 10, but I'm not sure that's really a drawback. It fixes much of the speed issue and also explains why you can't have two-way conversation as a Flourish. I'd probably also wind up doubling flight speeds for birds on top of this.


This isn't really a simulationist game. The monk jumper mentioned before can, before spells, clear 26 feet off the ground.

I think you're misusing the word "simulationist," since simulationism is about exploring a consistent internal logic. The simulationist conflict is not in the fact that the monk jumps--but if the monk SLOWS DOWN by gaining a flight speed, that's a simulationism problem.

From a simulationist perspective, "what would you do if you could actually jump 26 feet straight up?" is actually kind of a neat thought.

[Eslin]

Yeah. I've thought about houseruling one- or two-second rounds; that would make 1-minute buffs last for 30 rounds instead of 10, but I'm not sure that's really a drawback. It fixes much of the speed issue and also explains why you can't have two-way conversation as a Flourish. I'd probably also wind up doubling flight speeds for birds on top of this.



I think you're misusing the word "simulationist," since simulationism is about exploring a consistent internal logic. The simulationist conflict is not in the fact that the monk jumps--but if the monk SLOWS DOWN by gaining a flight speed, that's a simulationism problem.

From a simulationist perspective, "what would you do if you could actually jump 26 feet straight up?" is actually kind of a neat thought.

I'd use jump to triple how far I went, then toss someone further up in the air at the apex of the jump =D

[Yagyujubei]

just throwing it out there. I challenge you people saying turns should be shorter time wise to draw a sword from a sheath, run 30 feet, and slash it twice in 6 seconds. I'd be willing to bet you cant do it.

also as far as speed goes. if a round is 6 seconds, that means you get 10 rounds in a minute, which means any one character will take 10 turns in that time.

I'm no good at mathcrafting, but seems to me that a wood elf monk at level 20 can move 65 feet normally, 130 feet at a dash, and 260 feet with Ki dash as your bonus, meaning you can move 2600 feet in a minute. pretty sure there's no human that can run that fast, considering that means they could run a mile in just over 2 minutes.

[Eslin]

just throwing it out there. I challenge you people saying turns should be shorter time wise to draw a sword from a sheath, run 30 feet, and slash it twice in 6 seconds. I'd be willing to bet you cant do it.

also as far as speed goes. if a round is 6 seconds, that means you get 10 rounds in a minute, which means any one character will take 10 turns in that time.

I'm no good at mathcrafting, but seems to me that a wood elf monk at level 20 can move 65 feet normally, 130 feet at a dash, and 260 feet with Ki dash as your bonus, meaning you can move 2600 feet in a minute. pretty sure there's no human that can run that fast, considering that means they could run a mile in just over 2 minutes.

I never really thought about getting 2 attacks a round as 'this expert paladin can swing his sword once every 3 seconds'. It's a skill thing, not a speed thing - it means you can find two opportunities to get a potentially successful swing in a combat round. You and your opponent are dodging, weaving, parrying and blocking, your attacks are a measure of your ability to get a hit that might actually work in, not physically the number of times you can swing a weapon.

[Yagyujubei]

I never really thought about getting 2 attacks a round as 'this expert paladin can swing his sword once every 3 seconds'. It's a skill thing, not a speed thing - it means you can find two opportunities to get a potentially successful swing in a combat round. You and your opponent are dodging, weaving, parrying and blocking, your attacks are a measure of your ability to get a hit that might actually work in, not physically the number of times you can swing a weapon.

ok then, draw a sword, run 30 feet, and strike and opponent who is fighting back twice in 6 seconds. that only makes it that much harder.

[Eslin]

ok then, draw a sword, run 30 feet, and strike and opponent who is fighting back twice in 6 seconds. that only makes it that much harder.

Uh... yes? Yes it does? That's pretty much my point.

[Yagyujubei]

Uh... yes? Yes it does? That's pretty much my point.

yeah, you were furthering my whole argument so I agreed with you. If people think doing all that in 6 seconds is easy (or normally possible even) they're out of their minds

[Sartharina]

Is it weird to anyone but me that you can gain altitude faster by jumping than by flying?Just you. Jumping provides explosive acceleration.

yeah, you were furthering my whole argument so I agreed with you. If people think doing all that in 6 seconds is easy (or normally possible even) they're out of their minds... you guys have problems doing this?

[MaxWilson]

just throwing it out there. I challenge you people saying turns should be shorter time wise to draw a sword from a sheath, run 30 feet, and slash it twice in 6 seconds. I'd be willing to bet you cant do it.

also as far as speed goes. if a round is 6 seconds, that means you get 10 rounds in a minute, which means any one character will take 10 turns in that time.

I'm no good at mathcrafting, but seems to me that a wood elf monk at level 20 can move 65 feet normally, 130 feet at a dash, and 260 feet with Ki dash as your bonus, meaning you can move 2600 feet in a minute. pretty sure there's no human that can run that fast, considering that means they could run a mile in just over 2 minutes.

You'd be wrong about me not being able to draw/run 30 feet/slash twice in six seconds. I did it in five and I was even doing everything sequentially to make it harder. Six seconds is a looooong time in combat. It's not that uncommon in fencing to score a touch in less than two seconds, starting from 10' apart (ish).

Your Ki monk winds up running 29 mph. (I don't think you actually get 260' of movement from the Ki dash, I think it would be 195' or 22 mph, but for the sake of argument we'll go with your interpretation.) I certainly HOPE that stacking magical ki abilities and 20 levels of monk results in you running faster than real-life humans; it's just surprising that he's still slower than a school bus.


I never really thought about getting 2 attacks a round as 'this expert paladin can swing his sword once every 3 seconds'. It's a skill thing, not a speed thing - it means you can find two opportunities to get a potentially successful swing in a combat round. You and your opponent are dodging, weaving, parrying and blocking, your attacks are a measure of your ability to get a hit that might actually work in, not physically the number of times you can swing a weapon.

So, how many attacks per turn should you get against a paralyzed target? RAW you get one swing every six seconds (modulo extra attacks). Are you feinting at the air?

[MaxWilson]

Just you. Jumping provides explosive acceleration.

Explosive acceleration, sure, but it's velocity we're interested in. You start off moving 27 miles per hour straight up, gradually slowing to zero speed, for an average speed of 13 mph. A flying creature however is able to keep accelerating (explosively) for the whole flight time, so unless its leg muscles are freakishly overdeveloped compared to its wings (usually not the case) you'd expect the same "explosive" muscle power to result in a flight speed about equal to the maximum jump speed, which is twice as fast as the average jump speed.

[Easy_Lee]

Suffice it to say the D&D universe plays by its own rules, and sometimes those rules are silly.

[Eslin]

Suffice it to say the D&D universe plays by its own rules, and sometimes those rules are silly.

Like the fact that I can leap 78 feet in the air while holding a creature that weighs eight times what I do, then throw a dart at it and have that dart shove the opponent a further 15 feet in the air? (which should shove me down 120 feet in the same time according to real life physics)

[pwykersotz]

Like the fact that I can leap 78 feet in the air while holding a creature that weighs eight times what I do, then throw a dart at it and have that dart shove the opponent a further 15 feet in the air? (which should shove me down 120 feet in the same time according to real life physics)

Careful, I think there's some correlation to physics and catgirls, and Sartharina is in this very thread. :smalltongue:

[Icewraith]

Careful, I think there's some correlation to physics and catgirls, and Sartharina is in this very thread. :smalltongue:

If she doesn't die, we must not be talking about real physics. Someone figure out how to import string theory into D&D, if Sartharina keels over it'll be proof that the string theorists are on to something.

Too bad it will only work once. You could mine nobel prizes out of this catgirl-as-valid-physics-detector concept.

[IAmTehDave]

You could mine nobel prizes out of this catgirl-as-valid-physics-detector concept.

So I'm sigging this. Just thought I'd let you know.

In other news: Can we figure out how high a party, working together, can throw a melee character to hit a flying dragon? Preferably without dealing (too much) damage to said melee character in the process.

[Person_Man]

As an aside, I've always wanted to write two roleplaying games.

One is called "Killing Catgirls." It uses the standard generic fantasy setting and magic, but assumes real world physics. The electricity from a Lightning Bolt is conducted by water, you can't evade Fireball in an enclosed space and it fills a fixed volume instead of a radius, teleporting can have unfortunate implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Am7oKBD3PU), etc.

The second is called "Rule of Fun." It is set entirely in a fictional world created by an omnipotent god with the intellect of an 6 year old who just wants the world to be fun, like Anthony Fremon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29) if he played D&D. It completely ignores all simulationist notions, entirely.

[Icewraith]

As an aside, I've always wanted to write two roleplaying games.

One is called "Killing Catgirls." It uses the standard generic fantasy setting and magic, but assumes real world physics. The electricity from a Lightning Bolt is conducted by water, you can't evade Fireball in an enclosed space and it fills a fixed volume instead of a radius, teleporting can have unfortunate implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Am7oKBD3PU), etc.

The second is called "Rule of Fun." It is set entirely in a fictional world created by an omnipotent god with the intellect of an 6 year old who just wants the world to be fun, like Anthony Fremon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Good_Life_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29) if he played D&D. It completely ignores all simulationist notions, entirely.

"Rule of Fun" sounds like "Axe Cop: The RPG". Promising.

But, how do you make a completely non-simulationist ruleset?

(Woo someone liked what I said enough to sig it! Go ahead.)

[Yuki Akuma]

But, how do you make a completely non-simulationist ruleset?

Fate Core seems to manage it. So do a lot of Japanese RPGs like Tenra Bansho.

[Sartharina]

"Rule of Fun" sounds like "Axe Cop: The RPG". Promising.

But, how do you make a completely non-simulationist ruleset?
You use your "Make completely non-simulationist ruleset" secret move, of course!

[Maxilian]

Gotcha, guess the trick is to do it from underneath the target as a lightfoot halfling.

Well yeah that would work, but you will get Disadvantage on rolls and also have in mind that the character will also come down again, so they will take a 1d6 damage (1d6 for each 10 feets) but also... whoever you push will also land on top of you, so you will also take damage...

Note: There's no falling object damage rule in the 5th edition yet, so i use the 3.5 rule (1d6 for each 200lb), so... it will hurt a lot if you do that to a heavy enemy

[Easy_Lee]

Well yeah that would work, but you will get Disadvantage on rolls and also have in mind that the character will also come down again, so they will take a 1d6 damage (1d6 for each 10 feets) but also... whoever you push will also land on top of you, so you will also take damage...

Note: There's no falling object damage rule in the 5th edition yet, so i use the 3.5 rule (1d6 for each 200lb), so... it will hurt a lot if you do that to a heavy enemy

They only fall on you if you don't get out of the way before they land. There's plenty of time, by any stretch of the imagination, to move out of the way when something above you randomly jumps in the air, takes a second to start falling, then falls again. Especially when you're expecting it. And especially when you're so tiny anyway.

Also, you only take disadvantage if you don't have advantage. A simple trick would be for a halfling warlock to cast darkness first. Or just have your familiar use help.

[Eslin]

Or just grapple, jump and fling.

[Easy_Lee]

Or just grapple, jump and fling.

Or suplex. Zangief the enlarged dwarf is certainly doable this edition.

[Freelance GM]

Have fun talking your DM into allowing it.

As a DM, I will only allow Monks to push their enemies straight up if they shout "Shoryuken" first.

[charcoalninja]

How is a 45' angle straight line no longer a straight line? It still goes straight, as it's a line and means you can't move the guy around corners or anything, but there's nothing in the straight line clause that would eliminate moving them up...

[MaxWilson]

How is a 45' angle straight line no longer a straight line? It still goes straight, as it's a line and means you can't move the guy around corners or anything, but there's nothing in the straight line clause that would eliminate moving them up...

You just answered your own question. "45 degree angle straight line" is a contradiction in terms.

[Abithrios]

You just answered your own question. "45 degree angle straight line" is a contradiction in terms.

'45 degree angle' refers to direction of the line, not to a bend in the middle.

[charcoalninja]

Yeah but walking up a flight of stairs doesn't stop being 'straight ahead' just because it also goes up.

[charcoalninja]

You just answered your own question. "45 degree angle straight line" is a contradiction in terms.

Straight means it doesn't curve or turn. Regardless of the angle it goes out of, a line is straight by definition. My triangle's sides aren't any less straight than my Rectangle.

[MaxWilson]

'45 degree angle' refers to direction of the line, not to a bend in the middle.

1.) It was natural for the previous poster to describe repelling someone at a tangent as a "45 degree angle" because that is the angle of incidence between the warlock and the vector of the repelled creature.
2.) The most natural way to read the rule text for "Repelling Blast" is that it describes the same angle of incidence and restricts it to be 0 degrees.

The claim is made that "straight line" refers not to the angle of incidence between warlock vector and repelled-creature vector, but simply to the fact that the repelled creature is not allowed to be change directions in mid-air or be repelled around corners. Really? Anyone who argues this is essentially arguing that a Shove can shove opponents through right-angle turns in midair, simply because it fails to specify "a straight line". It's unnatural and implausible to use English this way, a fact which the previous poster unwittingly demonstrated in their own writing. That's why I said they "answered their own question."

[Abithrios]

1.) It was natural for the previous poster to describe repelling someone at a tangent as a "45 degree angle" because that is the angle of incidence between the warlock and the vector of the repelled creature.
2.) The most natural way to read the rule text for "Repelling Blast" is that it describes the same angle of incidence and restricts it to be 0 degrees.

The claim is made that "straight line" refers not to the angle of incidence between warlock vector and repelled-creature vector, but simply to the fact that the repelled creature is not allowed to be change directions in mid-air or be repelled around corners. Really? Anyone who argues this is essentially arguing that a Shove can shove opponents through right-angle turns in midair, simply because it fails to specify "a straight line". It's unnatural and implausible to use English this way, a fact which the previous poster unwittingly demonstrated in their own writing. That's why I said they "answered their own question."

A horizontal ray should not push something upward. Issues regarding balance and tone of the game should be taken into account before allowing a non flying enemies to be pushed upward by a non horizontal ray, regardless of physical sense. (keep in mind that the warlock is not getting pushed back, so momentum is not conserved)

[Ghost Nappa]

A horizontal ray should not push something upward. Issues regarding balance and tone of the game should be taken into account before allowing a non flying enemies to be pushed upward by a non horizontal ray, regardless of physical sense. (keep in mind that the warlock is not getting pushed back, so momentum is not conserved)

Actually, the only directions momentum is conserved are those that are purely vertical: straight up, or straight down. :smallcool:

[Eslin]

A horizontal ray should not push something upward. Issues regarding balance and tone of the game should be taken into account before allowing a non flying enemies to be pushed upward by a non horizontal ray, regardless of physical sense. (keep in mind that the warlock is not getting pushed back, so momentum is not conserved)

You're pushing for conservation of momentum in magic?

And I also can't see why the warlock thing wouldn't work. Get under the target, blast them, push them upwards. Makes sense.

[Easy_Lee]

I'm a bit confused here. Are we debating the meaning of the term "straight line", and whether it has to be horizontal directions? Seems to me that a straight line can be in any direction, particularly with theater of the mind. "Repelling" someone who's above and ahead of you should push them at an angle, I would think (approximately 45 degrees).

[Submortimer]

I'm a bit confused here. Are we debating the meaning of the term "straight line", and whether it has to be horizontal directions? Seems to me that a straight line can be in any direction, particularly with theater of the mind. "Repelling" someone who's above and ahead of you should push them at an angle, I would think (approximately 45 degrees).

I'm entirely inclined to believe you here, especially because this means that i could potentially dive beneath my enemy and blast him up into the air. Then he takes all that sweet, sweet falling damage.

[Person_Man]

I hope that when Atari's license expires next year, they make a 5E game using a good physics engine. It'd be hilarious to see how all the different class abilities and spells actually worked out.

[charcoalninja]

I'm a bit confused here. Are we debating the meaning of the term "straight line", and whether it has to be horizontal directions? Seems to me that a straight line can be in any direction, particularly with theater of the mind. "Repelling" someone who's above and ahead of you should push them at an angle, I would think (approximately 45 degrees).

Exactly.

It's straight alone the line of origin, so Straight up, or Straight down, or Straight to the front, or Straight along your upward angle. You can't shoot someone horizontally and knock them up for example, because that's not straight, that's perpendicular. But if you move next to and blast an ogre in the chest you bet RAW says he should go skyward.