Death by Divination

[Stormthorn]

Ok, so i looked at the pair of damaging spells that Rich wrote up in the gaming section and i though "im sure their are secrets out their even more terrible than these." And so i ad-hocked my own epic spell. Let me know what you think.

Unknowable Truth
Divination
Spellcraft DC: 50
Components: V, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (see below)
Spell Resistance: No
Upon completion of this spell a terrible burst of knowledge, in the form of a terrible and mind shattering secret the likes of which is beyond the ability of the mortal (and in some cases divine) mind to grasp, manifests instantly in the mind of the target.
Knowledge of the secret inflicts 30d6 points of damage to the target if it is fully understood if it fully understood. Additionally the target is permanently insane as though struck by an insanity spell. The target can attempt to shut out knowledge with a successful Will save, which reduces the damage by half but does not prevent insanity. The more intelligent the target, however, the more difficult it is to resist the urge to understand the secret. The target ads his Intelligence modifier to the Will saving throw DC, so that the secret is less effective on the blissfully ignorant. Creatures without an Intelligence score ignore this spell entirely, and deific beings are unaffected by the insanity and suffer only half damage on a failed save or no damage on a successful save.
The secret is such that the mind cannot grasp it for long, and it completly fades from the target's memory after being revealed unless the target is a diety, in which case it remains for a short time and grants a +4 bonus to saves against the spell for the remainder of the encounter should it be cast again.
Focus: The preserved brain of an outsider with an Intelligence score of 25 or higher. And a phial of blood belonging to any creature with an intelligence score of 31 or higher.

[Fizban]

Looks good, but why don't you tell us the factors you used to create it?

[Arbitrarity]

Don't think he can... no seeds actually do anything like that. It looks like a combination of the Terrible Secret spell by the Giant, and a no-save insanity...

[Stormthorn]

Yup. And i based the Spellcraft DC off of the destroy seed and some similarly powerful divination epic spells (albiet, all of them had different affects)

[Jack_Simth]

No save, no SR Insanity? Isn't that broken even for Epic?

[Fizban]

Well of course there's no seeds that do that as a base, you're supposed to combine them, describe the spell effect, and throw around some ad hoc adjustments where needed. It's all fine and dandy to just make a spell and give it a spellcraft DC, but without using the rules it's just arbitrary.

So, let's see, I'd say it's a combination of destroy, forsee, and inflict. Factors include increase damage to 30d6, change from ray to target, make target insane instead of morale or ability penalty(ad hoc +), target forgets the secret (ad hoc +or-), increase DC for intellegent creatures (ad hoc+). The creator has also chosen for the spell to be of the divination school, and that it should use a will save.

Now, if you can produce the DC of 50 from that mess, then I'll start critiquing it.

[Stormthorn]

No save, no SR Insanity? Isn't that broken even for Epic?

You might have a point. I will look into it.


So, let's see, I'd say it's a combination of destroy, forsee, and inflict. Factors include increase damage to 30d6, change from ray to target, make target insane instead of morale or ability penalty(ad hoc +), target forgets the secret (ad hoc +or-), increase DC for intellegent creatures (ad hoc+). The creator has also chosen for the spell to be of the divination school, and that it should use a will save.

Now, if you can produce the DC of 50 from that mess, then I'll start critiquing it.

If you care so much about the method that i used to get the DC that you wont comment on the spells content until i have adjusted the DC to suit your personal needs than why are even here, dude. You made your objections to my method known, now either offer something constructive or design your own spell. Look, when it comes down to it, the DC for every ad-hoc bit is what the DM says he wants it to be and almost my entire spell is ad-hoc.

[Fizban]

Actually most of your spell isn't ad hoc. It deals damage, and it causes insanity. Damage already exists, so insanity is the only thing that really needs to be guessed. Afflict makes the most sense to start with, and the difference between the base DC of afflict and the base DC the insanity spell if it were a seed is around 12 IIRC.

I care so much about the method because there's a method to use. If you're making an epic spell, then it should use the epic spell rules, even if much of it is made up. Most of the example epic spells have made up stuff, yours is a lot more standard than those.

As for the spells actual content, well what is there to say? It's a more powerful version of a non epic spell. Comparing it directly with Greater Ruin, it needs a higher spellcraft DC. Greater Ruin costs 2,000xp and only deals 5 dice more damage, whereas your spell also inflicts insanity, a whole different effect that should increase the DC by another 20 past that at least. So the spell needs at least 30 more DC, for a total of 80.

I should have phrased my origianl sentance better, but my point stands: if you're making an epic spell, than it should follow the epic spell rules, including those regarding seeds, factors, and so on.

Maybe I'll stat it up myself tomorrow, but I'm going to bed now.