Create Food as an Arcane Spell - Which Level?

[Orderic]

I recently had a talk with one of my players about a wizard researching an arcane variant of Create Food and Water. What I wonder is, if a wizard researches such a spell, what level would it have?

I would say something from three to five. It is not a spell that is normally on the wizard list, creating food in general is something that is more difficult for them and the one spell that can create something edible (that I know of) is Minor Creation, a level 4 spell that could only create temporary food.


Of course, there is also the possibility that the gods, when making the rules for magic decided, that the creation of food should not be something that arcane magic should be capable of. But I am not working under that assumption.

[Belkarseviltwin]

It can currently be done with a Level 5 spell, Wall of Stone, followed by a Level 6 spell, Stone to Flesh. There is nothing in the rules stating that the flesh created by a Stone to Flesh spell isn't edible.

In fact, if amorphous flesh isn't your cup of tea, RAW using Fabricate to create a statue of a pig then using Stone to Flesh on it would give you a dead pig.

I would say research would certainly give a wizard a Level 5 spell capable of creating food from non-living matter- Sand to Grain, perhaps- as it lacks the other, more important uses of Stone to Flesh. It might even be able to create food out of thin air.

[Xelbiuj]

Summon monster I (chicken) + grease + burning hands = KFC

[sleepyphoenixx]

Minor Creation lets you create nonliving vegetable matter. RAW there are no consequences for eating something that only exists for a limited duration so you can live off the stuff with no problems.

Alternatively you can use Lesser Planar Binding for a Janni and it's Create Food and Water 1/day SLA.


Summon monster I (chicken) + grease + burning hands = KFC
Summoned creatures go away when killed so this wouldn't work even if you could actually use SM1 to summon chickens.

[Jeff the Green]

Alternatively you can use Lesser Planar Binding for a Janni and it's Create Food and Water 1/day SLA.

Or lesser planar binding for a half-celestial cow. The steak that results will be heavenly.

[Cruiser1]

Summoned creatures go away when killed so this wouldn't work even if you could actually use SM1 to summon chickens.
Cast Halaster's Fetch I (Sor/Wiz 4) instead, which is like Summon Monster I but the monster is called so stays forever. Bring in an allowed animal, and then proceed to KFC it for food. :smallwink: Since Create Food and Water is a divine 3rd level spell, I'd expect a arcane version of it to be at least 4th level, which makes sense given the above reproduction with arcane spells.

[malonkey1]

Or lesser planar binding for a half-celestial cow. The steak that results will be heavenly.

We need to breed this heaven-cow to get templates to maximize size, of course, so we can get as much meat out of it as we can. EDIT: An enlargement spell won't work here, he says pre-emptively, because we want it to be passed on to later cows.

[nyjastul69]

I think making it a 4th level arcane spell is fair.

[Fax Celestis]

Arcane Disciple (Gluttony, Creation, or Feast) doesn't do it for you?

[Orderic]

Tanks for all the answers! Yes, level 4 sounds good. And maybe some transmutations to create food from somethin else, like Sand to Grain.


We need to breed this heaven-cow to get templates to maximize size, of course, so we can get as much meat out of it as we can. EDIT: An enlargement spell won't work here, he says pre-emptively, because we want it to be passed on to later cows.

Maybe if we make it a titanic cow, increasing the size to gargantuan.


Arcane Disciple (Gluttony, Creation, or Feast) doesn't do it for you?

The problem with that is, that it can only be used an even more limited number of times per day. And you need a good Wisdom score.



And now I have the idea of a fast-food chain with traps of Halasters Fetch I, providing meat from the planes.

[bekeleven]

The problem with that is, that it can only be used an even more limited number of times per day. And you need a good Wisdom score.

Realistically, if you need more than one or two castings of these per day, you should be buying one or more field provisions boxes (MIC), which feed 15 people/day for every 2000 GP you invest.

Or one of Tippy's self-resetting traps, I suppose.

[Fax Celestis]

Realistically, if you need more than one or two castings of these per day, you should be buying one or more field provisions boxes (MIC), which feed 15 people/day for every 2000 GP you invest.

Or one of Tippy's self-resetting traps, I suppose.

Or everlasting rations, 200 gp.

Plus, Arcane Disciple drops them onto your spell list, so...buy a wand?

[Divide by Zero]

Or lesser planar binding for a half-celestial cow. The steak that results will be heavenly.

Didn't Odysseus get in trouble for doing something like that?

[Orderic]

Or one of Tippy's self-resetting traps, I suppose.

While it would be awesome if my players started to turn the Dragonmech Setting into the Tippyverse, I don't think they would want to.

[Necroticplague]

Didn't Odysseus get in trouble for doing something like that?

His problem was that the owner of said sheep was nearby. When you Bind them, you have the benefit of being on an entirely different plane. Unfortunately, if said angel does decide to come after you, it probably has a better sense motive than that cyclops did.

[Jeff the Green]

His problem was that the owner of said sheep was nearby. When you Bind them, you have the benefit of being on an entirely different plane. Unfortunately, if said angel does decide to come after you, it probably has a better sense motive than that cyclops did.

Also, he's probably angrier. You're not eating his livestock; you're eating his son.

[Orderic]

Also, he's probably angrier. You're not eating his livestock; you're eating his son.

In that case a fiendish cow might be better. Not only does the evil improve its flavour, there is little chance of accidentally burning the meat. And the parents most likely care far less than an angel would.

Now, how to start a farm of titanic fiendish cows...

[Jeff the Green]

Now, how to start a farm of titanic fiendish cows...

Half-fiend. Fiendish cows are magical beasts and thus not a valid target for the planar binding line.

[Sith_Happens]

Cast Halaster's Fetch I (Sor/Wiz 4) instead, which is like Summon Monster I but the monster is called so stays forever.

Not quite:


The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible.

[Orderic]

Not quite:

Soo.... mindrape? Or some more sensible way of preventing it from returning, before it can do so.


As for the cow, I just realized that it is most likely large and thus too large for titanic creature... and it could not be planar bound, because titanic sets its HD to 25...


So, gate in some titanic half-fiendish* chickens and sheep and start selling meat and eggs that are "so good, you would go to hell for them".

Are there maybe some other templates that would increase the size? Some that would make starting all of this less expensive?


Also, how the hell did we go from a mage wanting to create some food to slaughtering angels and demons? :smalleek:



*Half-Fiend is actually a terrible idea when combined with titanic. Unless we want gargantuan chickens of doom who will summon even more demons.

[Sith_Happens]

Unless we want gargantuan chickens of doom who will summon even more demons.

Why wouldn't we want that?:smallconfused:

[Necroticplague]

If you're willing to compromise a bit on size, half-goristro would get you Huge sized chickens without any more HD. They do get all the stat boni from the size changes, plus the +8 to STR and CON from the template itself, so these are pretty strong chickens. Although I've always used them as mounts instead of food, though, because not much quite says "S*** just got real" than leading your army army of war-chickens into battle.

[Fax Celestis]

...chocobo?

[Jeff the Green]

not much quite says "S*** just got real" than leading your army army of war-chickens into battle.

:smallconfused: I thought that said "You should have consulted the wild mushroom identification guide more closely."

[Cruiser1]

Cast Halaster's Fetch I (Sor/Wiz 4) instead, which is like Summon Monster I but the monster is called so stays forever.

Not quite:

The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible.
The Halaster's Fetch line of spells limit the circumstances under which returning to their plane of origin is possible. The spell text says, "called creatures do not disappear at the end of the spell's duration. They do, however, become free-willed and outside the control of the caller after the spell expires." That suggests the creature can't return, or at least it can't do so until after the 1 round/level spell duration expires. Therefore, before the spell expires, kill your food animal. It definitely can't use an ability to leave if it's dead. :smallwink:

[Divide by Zero]

His problem was that the owner of said sheep was nearby. When you Bind them, you have the benefit of being on an entirely different plane. Unfortunately, if said angel does decide to come after you, it probably has a better sense motive than that cyclops did.

No, I was thinking of the Cattle of Helios. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cattle_of_Helios)

[Jeff the Green]

No, I was thinking of the Cattle of Helios. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cattle_of_Helios)

And I think Helios would be even less amused if you tried to eat his kids. Of course, the Greek gods turned into animals to seduce beautiful women rather than the other way around.