Going into melee with my wizard - ideas?

[Shin]

Hey everyone!

So basically since I started playing D&D 3.5 I pursued the concept of a rather well-rounded "roguish" char while playing different characters. I had a thread here about my group being hostile towards some of my ideas and eventually did start to play my unseen seer as a god wizard (bc/debuff/buff -> support in general but next to no damage dealing).

I have found a liking to the subtle yet sublime way of god, and so I scratched all ideas about sneak attacking and damage dealing from my ideas for a classic sword/dagger wielding (and probably as nonmagical as possible) rogue.

I am now looking for new ideas for such a char and do hope that I get to hear some opinions and ideas here. We plan to form a new group of characters soon, so now is the best time to finish the concept (in advance) and play it.

So basically these are the goals set for the build:
- god / support (little to no damage / leave dealing damage to other group members yet contribute to the group/combat) (done with wizard)
- skillmonkey (rogue skill set and high skill point gain) (done with unseen seer)
- Int and Dex for main attributes if possible (Dex should at least be useful) (done with wizard/using a finesse'd weapon)
- should be melee / make use of his melee weapons (and have a reason for it)
- pumped AC (especially Dex/dodge AC) preferred to invisibility (to express an athletic fighting style compared to being invisible) (and have reason for being visible)

Basically I still struggle to find reasons for why the char should go into melee, use a melee weapon and prefer to stay visible (prefer high ac to invisibility).
Maybe because storing spells in the weapon and casting them through the weapon gives some advantage?
Maybe being visible in front of the enemy (high ac to not die though) because the group needs a tank?
Allowed is basically any content (even BoeF), multiclassing xp penalty applied, able learner nerfed.

Thank you very much!

[thethird]

You know that being a god wizard without wizard is complicated? And being only mundane... I don't think that would be possible using the 3.5 system.

[Shin]

I know, that's why I seek the advice of the more experienced community. It doesn't have to be that omniversatile as a god wizard naturally is, but it shouldn't be a one trick pony either. One example: A warblade I think has potential for a good "support" with white raven tactics and other stuff - or a spiked chain trip factotum. Yet the latter I don't like because trip can be denied by quite a lot of enemies and isn't that useful later, as far as I know. I basically intend to be a support rather than a straight damage dealer.

[thethird]

How against bard are you?

A bardblade seems what you are looking for. Take X levels of Bard and Y levels of Warblade and white raven song then optimize inspire courage.

[Shin]

Ah, I had feared it would end in being a bard :smallsmile:
I'll take a closer look at that idea anyway, thank you so far for the response!

[OldTrees1]

Well debuff can be obtained with Intimidate ranks + Imperious Command feat + Fearsome[+5000gp] armor + Scarlet Corsair 5.
Alternative debuff can be obtained through Sneak Attack + Staggering Strike.

Battlefield control can be obtained through Barbarian(Wolf Totem) 2 + Spiked Chain + Large Size + Knockback feat. (halt/move enemies that try to move)

Buffing is harder. Bardic Music is the best I can think of. (Pick up White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge via Warblade 1 at 9th)

[Troacctid]

Ambush feats and Staggering Strike can help a Rogue or other sneak attacker to trade damage for debuffs as a melee fighter. Swordsages can do some melee battlefield control through Setting Sun maneuvers.

[Shin]

I decided to stay with wizard/metaphysical spellshaper/unseen seer, I think it is the best option without a doubt.
Going into melee with pumped ac and not staying far away and invisible is fine, but to take the weaker option needs an advantage to be worthwile, as well as fighting with a melee weapon as a wizard instead of just casting spells all the time.

I'm looking for reasons why to go melee/fight with a weapon/be visible now. What I came up with was that maybe there is some advantage in casting spells through a weapon (spell storing). A reason for being visible/melee could be to provide the group with a tank (illusion spells? mind affecting enchantment spells?). What do you think?

[Venger]

if you want to melee as a wizard, going into swiftblade and then later abjurant champion is a very popular choice.

[defiantdan]

How against cheese are you? if none just take incantatrix 3, a level of binder, metaphysical spellshaper and persistant spell. With Wraithstrike and Polymorph you can pretty much melee anything into oblivion. AC buffs include luminous armor, scintilating scales, shield, blur, invisilibility (improved versions), ect...