Hexes

[Extra Anchovies]

Building a Witch for an upcoming game, not sure what my Grand Hexes should be. So far I have:

1st: Slumber
2nd: Evil Eye
4th: Cackle
6th: Flight
8th: Fortune (or Misfortune, depending on how well the fellow PCs utilize buffs)
10th: Ice Tomb
12th: Retribution
14th: Beast Eye
16th: Tongues
18th: ???
19th (via Extra Hex): ???
20th: ???

For my last three, I'm stuck between the following:

Dire Prophecy: save-or-suck, but the main draw is I can lay down a save-or-die and give them a penalty equal to my caster level, which means it's more of a no-save death effect (what with their having -20 and all)
Death Curse: save-or-suck, plus save-or-die on another failed save
Curse of Nonviolence: can remove BBEG from the fight while his buffs wear off/while we crush his minions; could be circumvented via summons
Eternal Slumber: save-or-die, requires touch range
Forced Reincarnation: remove permanent/instantaneous debuffs from allies; give 2 negative levels to enemies (and kill some of their unused spell slots); also an anti-dragon nuke (reverting to young adult is very bad news for that Great Wyrm)

Which three should I pick? I'm leaning towards Dire Prophecy, then Forced Reincarnation, then Eternal Slumber, but I'm not sure. Any feedback on my lower-level hex selections is also welcome.

[legionof1]

I would exercise caution on the use of forced reincarnation. Party members with racial dependent build components will hate it. In addition one can experience as much as 6 point stat shift in a primary stat if your unlucky. Same applies to foes. It also can be a major hangup in gameplay. The pause as both player and/or dm recalculate everything effected by the stat shift and negative levels. worst case 2 saves, HP, to hit, skills and some abilities all require adjustment. And lets just coin flip every spell/slot. average number at that level is what 20-30?

As to the question of what to take i would say dire prophecy, death, nonviolence.

[Abd al-Azrad]

In terms of combat ability, Eternal Slumber is frankly weaker than Slumber - same DC, touch range, no benefit if the enemy makes their save. Yes, the standard Slumber can be negated after the fact by vigorous shaking, but you can also Split and Accursed Hex your regular Slumber.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately passing it over, but Summon Spirit can be phenomenally powerful. Calling an 18HD, reasonably friendly ghost at the cost of a negative level can be... frankly ridiculous (18th-level sorcerers!) or flavourful (the ghost of the Paladin King Soon) and is pretty much as powerful as you and the DM can bargain for it to be.

From how it looks, you already have a Will save-or-lose, a Will save-or-suck, and a Fort save-or-lose. I'd really recommend, playing my own high-level Witch and having some struggles with it, that you invest in a hex that covers some of your existing weaknesses (such as undead, anything immune to sleep or cold damage, etc.)

Dire Prophecy is cool, but it's a Will Negates attack that targets saves on a single creature. If you can make it stick, you could have saved the action and used a regular Will save-or-lose. Same, really, with Death Curse - Will negates the full effect, doesn't target anything immune to death attacks.

If I had to pick one (after Summon Spirit), perhaps Curse of Nonviolence. It's also Will negates, but it's not a Mind-effecting affect, and it'll work not just on BBEGs, but also pretty much any high-CR monster, with their considerable HD. You can basically use that to shut down almost anything - undead, constructs, whatever.

[Psyren]

The only two decent ones are Summon Spirit (already mentioned, gives you a ghost) and Life Giver, which is one of the game's few battle-rez abilities without a timer and free to boot. The other grand hexes unfortunately suck, or at least don't do anything that a lower hex would do more cheaply and several levels prior.

Extra Hex is a waste that high up, get Spell Perfection and some metamagic if you don't have them yet.

[Barstro]

Fortune is nowhere near as good as Misfortune. Fortune is once per round, chosen before the first roll, and (barring cheese) only for one fight. Misfortune is every roll, up to every enemy, and effects the world instead of the target, so there aren't any immunities (unless I've misread something).

Psyren is correct about Grand Hexes. It probably isn't worth a Feat to pick up a third.

[Gemini476]

Fortune is nowhere near as good as Misfortune. Fortune is once per round, chosen before the first roll, and (barring cheese) only for one fight. Misfortune is every roll, up to every enemy, and effects the world instead of the target, so there aren't any immunities (unless I've misread something).

Psyren is correct about Grand Hexes. It probably isn't worth a Feat to pick up a third.

Fortune can be alright, but that's if you spend most of your time cackling like mad. Not everyone approves of that, but it's a thing that works. Misfortune is still great if you're more focused on debuffs than buffs, though!

(The stay-at-home Witch is a really fascinating build, to be honest. I don't know of many characters that can actively contribute while never even entering the dungeon!)

[Barstro]

I saw a post a while ago suggesting that Misfortune was a better choice at early levels (provided you have Cackle too) than Slumber. The extra rolling is almost as good as being knocked out and Misfortune can affect more things. I'm afraid I don't remember all the figures that backed it up, but it seemed sound at the time I read it.

To be honest, I'm not sure of the last time I even used Slumber (currently level 15). Not that it isn't useful; but I'm a fan of drawn out fights where my allies get to feel important too. I stick with Evil Eye-Saves and Misfortune (using Split Hex) and Ice Tomb when things start to go downhill.

One caveat; Misfortune is of little use against spellcasters, since they can just use spells that do not require rolls. But you'll have Ice Tomb before they really become a problem.

[Psyren]

(The stay-at-home Witch is a really fascinating build, to be honest. I don't know of many characters that can actively contribute while never even entering the dungeon!)

Vitalist can contribute from their living room... on another plane :smallsmile:

Fortune works well with summons - every one you make is a new creature and so becomes eligible again. Ward also. It's a neat tactic for Witches trying to conserve ammo.



One caveat; Misfortune is of little use against spellcasters, since they can just use spells that do not require rolls. But you'll have Ice Tomb before they really become a problem.

It's still useful against casters actually because it applies to their saves and can remove them from a fight much faster. Target their weak save + force a reroll will generally do the trick.

However, given that most casters will make the will save to begin with, you're generally better off with Evil Eye.

[Barstro]

Fortune can be alright, but that's if you spend most of your time cackling like mad. Not everyone approves of that, but it's a thing that works. Misfortune is still great if you're more focused on debuffs than buffs, though!

Cheese. :) And it's still good only if your ally needs to make just one roll per round or is very lucky at guessing which one will be failed.


(The stay-at-home Witch is a really fascinating build, to be honest. I don't know of many characters that can actively contribute while never even entering the dungeon!)
I would never do the above except for story reasons, so I'm not too certain of how it works.
If it's based on being safe, using Scar Hex and Split Hex, it still doesn't really work because Cackle has no effect.

SCAR

The witch can use her hexes on the scarred target at a range of up to 1 mile

CACKLE

Effect: A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet

Cackle is not a targeted effect, so it isn't "used on a target". Cackle simply radiates from the Witch for 30 feet.

[Barstro]

Fortune works well with summons - every one you make is a new creature and so becomes eligible again. Ward also. It's a neat tactic for Witches trying to conserve ammo.

I always forget that because we have a Summoner in the party and it's a waste of my Witch's resources bring out a creature for just a few seconds. But that is an excellent point. Had we no Summoner, I would have considered specializing in summons with the Witch.