Cantrip damage, a comparison by class

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Various casters get features to add bonuses to their at-will spells, which I will attempt to summarize here.

Bard
No directly applicable features. A Valor bard gains features which add to other PC's atk or dmg rolls (lvl 3), and can cast and still attack once (lvl 14).

Cleric
Knowledge and Light domains gain Potent Spellcasting at lvl 8, adding their WIS mod to cleric cantrip dmg.

Druid
No applicable features. Land druids do gain a bonus cantrip.

Sorcerer
Draconic Sorcerers gain Elemental Affinity at lvl 6, adding their CHA mod to the damage of spells of their chosen element, including cantrips.
Wild Magic Sorcerers don't get any directly applicable features.

Warlock
Gets access to Eldritch Blast, and at lvl 2 can choose Invocations to add CHA mod to its dmg, increase the range, and add a push effect. While the features are limited to a single cantrip, they are notably better and come online much sooner than other classes.
Additionally, has a number of Invocations which turn specific lvl 1 spells into at-will spells.

Wizard
Evocation Wizards gain Potent Cantrip at lvl 6, where save-based cantrips deal half-damage on a save instead of none, at 10th lvl Empowered Evocation allows them to add their INT mod to any evocation-school spell, including cantrips, and at lvl 14 Overchannel allows them to maximize the damage on a spell of 5th lvl or less.

I was thinking about this today and decided to just write it out. Not sure how much of a conclusion will come of this.

[hymer]

Some more thoughts: The actual cantrips available and chosen is also an important factor. Bards' attack cantrip is Vicious Mockery, which deals notably poor damage (but also has a debuff attached to it, as well as dealing rare psychic damage). Bards may invest in a stronger attack cantrip from another list, but that's missing out on an opportunity of getting a much stronger spell.
Druids have poor attack cantrips, only able to deal good damage with Poison Spray (at 10', which sucks, and with poison damage, which is often subject to immunity and resistances). Their second choice is Produce Flame, which deals mediocre d8s at a mere 30' with at best semi-reliable fire damage (but it also has some utility in producing light and setting things aflame).

[Shadow]

Overchannel was not intended to be used with cantrips, as confirmed via Twitter. While the RAW allows free maximizing of every cantrip cast, the RAI does not agree. That this wasn't actually stated as a prohibition was an oversight.
The suggestion was to increase the necrotic damage by 1d12 for each use (essentially treating it as a 1st level spell) if the DM allowed it to be used with cantrips.

This will be DM fiat, and may change the effectiveness of the ability for this comparison.

[Shining Wrath]

I second hymer: you need to also compare the cantrips available.

As a further note, at 20th level a sorcerer will have access to 6 cantrips, a wizard 5, a bard or cleric 4. I forget warlock and druid offhand but I think the warlock gets a small number; but since one of them is eldritch blast, they don't need many. Variety of attack spells will matter for non-warlocks because of resistances. Some things are resistant to force magic, and those foes point and laugh at warlocks.

IIRC the only D12 cantrip is a Wizard only fire spell.
My favorite for side effects (other than eldritch blast) is the Sorc/Wiz Chill Touch, which does D8 necromatic and as a side effect prevents any sort of hit point recovery for one round. Auras, Cures, regeneration, you name it - shut down.

[MaxWilson]

Some things are resistant to force magic, and those foes point and laugh at warlocks.

Really only applies to immunity, not resistance. Helmed Horrors for example.


IIRC the only D12 cantrip is a Wizard only fire spell.

Fire Bolt is only D10. You may be thinking of Poison Spray, which is also available to Druids but is meh because of the damage type and short range (10').

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Clerics would rely on Sacred Flame I assume, 1 to 4d8 with 60' range, radiant damage which is nice, and relies on a Dex save with no cover. The save lets you pick between attacking vs Dex or using normal attacks vs AC.

Sorcs & Wizards get Firebolt and Acid Splash. F.B. gives 1 to 4d10, 120' and can start fires. A.S. gives 1 to 4d6 on 2 targets, 60' and is also a Dex save; An acid-focused Sorc would be very rare, and acid splash is also a conjuration spell so the wiz gets less out of it.

All the casters but bard get Poison spray, 1 to 4d12 poison damage, but as mentioned it has a very short 10' range.

Eldritch Blast is 1 to 4d10 force damage with the option to split to 1-4 target, 120' range.

Druids get Thorn Whip, 1 to 4d6 piercing damage, 30' range but considered melee, and pulls 10'

And for completeness the Bard has Vicious Mockery, a verbal-only spell which deals 1 to 4d4 psychic damage, 60' range, uses a WIS save and gives disadvantage. Weak in terms of damage but has a rare damage type and attacks a different save from the other cantrips. A unique spell.

[Tenmujiin]

Warlock...add CHA mod to its damage


...option to split to 1-4 target...

Note that RAI the charisma mod is added once per target rather than per blast (this applies to similar abilities like the wizard's int mod to damage when used with scorching ray). RAW is somewhat ambiguious I believe although I'm afb right now so I can't check it.

[Eslin]

Overchannel was not intended to be used with cantrips, as confirmed via Twitter. While the RAW allows free maximizing of every cantrip cast, the RAI does not agree. That this wasn't actually stated as a prohibition was an oversight.
The suggestion was to increase the necrotic damage by 1d12 for each use (essentially treating it as a 1st level spell) if the DM allowed it to be used with cantrips.

This will be DM fiat, and may change the effectiveness of the ability for this comparison.

I'm allowing it - it's their level 14 feature, they've specialised in evocation, I might as well let them be powerful. It increases their most powerful spell, fire bolt (at 3d10), from an average of 21.5 to 35 which is still behind the average damage of a martial class at that level.


Note that RAI the charisma mod is added once per target rather than per blast (this applies to similar abilities like the wizard's int mod to damage when used with scorching ray). RAW is somewhat ambiguious I believe although I'm afb right now so I can't check it.

I don't know anyone who treats it like that. Where are you getting that as RAI? There are four seperate attacks so you add your charisma mod to each one, that seems entirely logical. Eldritch blast was designed different from the other cantrips in order to allow warlocks to do competitive sustained damage - unlike the other casters, eldritch blast is supposed to be their main source of damage.

[Glarnog]

As of now the 6th lvl Evoker ability potent cantrip can only apply to 2 catrips. The only 2 that qualify are Acid Spash and Posion Spray.

[Shadow]

Note that RAI the charisma mod is added once per target rather than per blast (this applies to similar abilities like the wizard's int mod to damage when used with scorching ray). RAW is somewhat ambiguious I believe although I'm afb right now so I can't check it.

Nope. The RAI is not what you thiknk it is.
Agonizing Blast adds Cha mod to damage of each blast.
Effects which fire simultaneously only add mod once per target. EB blasts don't fire simultaneously. Each separate attack role is a different blast, and the mod to damage applies to each of them.

Look it up on sageadvice if you want to. The question has been posed and answered.

[numerek]

Magic secrets, domain spells, invocation, land spells, denoted by (*)

bestow curse bard, cleric, warlock(once a day), wizard which can add a d8 to cantrip damage and can give disadvantage to the appropriate saving throw for saving throw based cantrips, also if cast with a 5th level spell or above doesn't require concentration.

bless bard(*), cleric, gives an extra d4 to hit with attack cantrips.

blindness bard, cleric, sorcerer, wizard, advantage on attack cantrips.

contagion bard(*), cleric and druid which has a number of nasty effects and last for a least 3 rounds, blinding sickness applies blinded condition giving advantage to attack rolls, flesh rot makes the creature take double damage, slimy doom (may end up being nerfed at some point) gives disadvantage of the saving throw needed to stop contagion and when you hit it with your cantrips it is stunned, and you can chose the right one again for saving throw based cantrips.

Any summon creature spell which I think all full casters can do can use the help action to give advantage on attack cantrips.

entangle bard(*), druid can apply restrained condition give advantage on attack cantrips, disadvantage dex saving throw.

Evard's black tentacles bard(*), warlock can apply restrained condition give advantage on attack cantrips, disadvantage dex saving throw.

Faerie Fire bard, cleric(*), druid, warlock(*) advantage on attack cantrips.

Foresight bard, druid, warlock, wizard advantage on attack cantrips.

Greater Invisibility bard, druid(*), advantage on attack cantrips

Hex bard(ms), warlock, extra d6 damage

Hold monster/person bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard, advantage on attack cantrips, auto fail dex saving throw.

Otto's Irresistible Dance bard, wizard - advantage on attack cantrips, disadvantage on dex saving throw.

Slow bard(*), sorcerer, wizard, -2 to ac and dex save

Wish bard(*), sorcerer, wizard, for more powerful cantrips

I may have missed some and I purposely left off one that would only last for one attack or one round.

Tempest cleric can channel divinity to have shocking grasp deal max damage, and can push a large or smaller creature with shocking grasp. The cleric can get this spell thru magic initiate or multiclassing.

Druid cast cantrips while being a rat(any wildshapeable beast).

Eldritch Knight can cast a cantrip(or two action surge) and bonus action attack.

Arcane trickster gets an improved mage hand.

Sorcerer cast up to 3 cantrips a turn, one cantrip twinned another cantrip quickened and then can reroll the damage dice.

Warlock can get invocations that allow casting up to 5th level spells at-will

Wizard gets to pick 1st and 2nd level spells to cast at will.

Spell sniper - ignore cover double range

war caster - cantrip for attack of opportunity

lucky - reroll cantrip attacks

magic initiate - gain cantrips from other classes, cast first level spell wouldn't normally have access to that could help cantrips.

[Ashrym]

Various casters get features to add bonuses to their at-will spells, which I will attempt to summarize here.

Bard
No directly applicable features. A Valor bard gains features which add to other PC's atk or dmg rolls (lvl 3), and can cast and still attack once (lvl 14).

Cleric
Knowledge and Light domains gain Potent Spellcasting at lvl 8, adding their WIS mod to cleric cantrip dmg.

Druid
No applicable features. Land druids do gain a bonus cantrip.

Sorcerer
Draconic Sorcerers gain Elemental Affinity at lvl 6, adding their CHA mod to the damage of spells of their chosen element, including cantrips.
Wild Magic Sorcerers don't get any directly applicable features.

Warlock
Gets access to Eldritch Blast, and at lvl 2 can choose Invocations to add CHA mod to its dmg, increase the range, and add a push effect. While the features are limited to a single cantrip, they are notably better and come online much sooner than other classes.
Additionally, has a number of Invocations which turn specific lvl 1 spells into at-will spells.

Wizard
Evocation Wizards gain Potent Cantrip at lvl 6, where save-based cantrips deal half-damage on a save instead of none, at 10th lvl Empowered Evocation allows them to add their INT mod to any evocation-school spell, including cantrips, and at lvl 14 Overchannel allows them to maximize the damage on a spell of 5th lvl or less.

I was thinking about this today and decided to just write it out. Not sure how much of a conclusion will come of this.

Expertise or jack-of-all-trades can apply to the social check on the friends cantrip. It's not damage, but it's a definite bonus over other spellcasters. Message can be used for covert persuasion or deception checks, similarly. Arcane tricksters have similar benefits in taking those cantrips and also have special features for mage hand. Eldritch knights have can take a bonus attack after casting a cantrip at 7th level, and at 10th level attacks by the eldritch knight can grant disadvantage on the saving throw. 9th level arcane tricksters also have disadvantage on saves versus spells or cantrips used from stealth.

[MarkTriumphant]

Nope. The RAI is not what you thiknk it is.
Agonizing Blast adds Cha mod to damage of each blast.
Effects which fire simultaneously only add mod once per target. EB blasts don't fire simultaneously. Each separate attack role is a different blast, and the mod to damage applies to each of them.

Look it up on sageadvice if you want to. The question has been posed and answered.

Further to that - as each blast is a separate attack, can each target be chosen after the previous blast, or must all targets be chosen at the start?

[Shadow]

Further to that - as each blast is a separate attack, can each target be chosen after the previous blast, or must all targets be chosen at the start?

They are completely separate attacks. Four bolts, four attacks, four different targets if you want.
It's the magical ranged force version of a fighter's attack sequence.

DM fiat - You could even move in between each attack if you had some reason to. I'd allow it in my game.

[Rezby]

They are completely separate attacks. Four bolts, four attacks, four different targets if you want.
It's the magical ranged force version of a fighter's attack sequence.

DM fiat - You could even move in between each attack if you had some reason to. I'd allow it in my game.

Since the phb explicitly allows the fighter to break up his up to 4 Attacks in his Attack action with movement allowed in between them, I think it'd be basically saying no to only warlocks to not allow them to move so between attacks as well.

In magic missile, which also launches several attacks at once, but it says they're all simultaneous, so you pick targets and then damage happens all at once. Eldritch blast does not say that, so you could, in fact, launch one blast at a time and decide on further targets depending on attack rolls.

Comparing to a 20th level fighter who can nock and shoot 4 arrows one at a time, with move between, a 17th level warlock (with 4 eldritch blasts) ought to be able to do the equivalent.

[Eslin]

They are completely separate attacks. Four bolts, four attacks, four different targets if you want.
It's the magical ranged force version of a fighter's attack sequence.

DM fiat - You could even move in between each attack if you had some reason to. I'd allow it in my game.

Be a pretty good way to blast someone around a corner. Blast, move, blast.

[Shining Wrath]

Be a pretty good way to blast someone around a corner. Blast, move, blast.

Or move, blast, move back.
I think technically any caster can do that, so it could be move, Meteor Swarm, move. Or a Sorcerer could do move, Quickened Meteor Swarm, Chill Touch so they can't heal, move back.

I must agree that the Warlock can split his Eldritch Blasts up among moves as desired. Which is sweet, and moves the Warlock up slightly on my personal cool-o-meter.

[odigity]

Expertise or jack-of-all-trades can apply to the social check on the friends cantrip. It's not damage, but it's a definite bonus over other spellcasters. Message can be used for covert persuasion or deception checks, similarly. Arcane tricksters have similar benefits in taking those cantrips and also have special features for mage hand. Eldritch knights have can take a bonus attack after casting a cantrip at 7th level, and at 10th level attacks by the eldritch knight can grant disadvantage on the saving throw. 9th level arcane tricksters also have disadvantage on saves versus spells or cantrips used from stealth.

Don't want to be a ****, but I feel the need to point out that you didn't need to quote the entire first post (which is a page long) to add your paragraph. In fact, you didn't need to quote any of it, since you were simply adding topical info, not responding to a particular point. (I'm a bit sensitive to this because I've seen a lot of this happening lately, sometimes 3+ page quotes at a time for no reason.)

[odigity]

Since the phb explicitly allows the fighter to break up his up to 4 Attacks in his Attack action with movement allowed in between them, I think it'd be basically saying no to only warlocks to not allow them to move so between attacks as well.

In magic missile, which also launches several attacks at once, but it says they're all simultaneous, so you pick targets and then damage happens all at once. Eldritch blast does not say that, so you could, in fact, launch one blast at a time and decide on further targets depending on attack rolls.

Comparing to a 20th level fighter who can nock and shoot 4 arrows one at a time, with move between, a 17th level warlock (with 4 eldritch blasts) ought to be able to do the equivalent.

Wow. I hadn't thought of that. That is awesome. And I just learned last night about Hex adding damage to each of the rays. EB just keeps getting better, which is great, because I was already planning on picking it up. :)

[Tenmujiin]

Nope. The RAI is not what you thiknk it is.
Agonizing Blast adds Cha mod to damage of each blast.
Effects which fire simultaneously only add mod once per target. EB blasts don't fire simultaneously. Each separate attack role is a different blast, and the mod to damage applies to each of them.

Look it up on sageadvice if you want to. The question has been posed and answered.

I must have miss-heard that somewhere then, probably with respect to magic missile and evocation wizards. I wasn't going to use that in my games anyway though since I thought it was a stupid ruling.