Argument about Entangling Ectoplasm Power...Whats your opinion?

[zarreff]

I was playing a new game last night and upon the use of my first power, Entangling Ectoplasm, I was met with argument. Another player stated it was like the spell entangle. I of course argued it is not. The argument was that a creature can break out of my entangling ectoplasm with a DC strength check of 20, or an Escape Artist Check of 20. This is what the Entangling spell has in its description for how to break out of the magical entanglements of the plant growth of its spell. I argued that my Power does not allow for such checks, because it is not in the power description. The power states that they are entangled and the duration is 5 rounds. There is no save and power resistance does not apply. In no way does the power even mention the entangle spell. To further my argument I pointed out that other powers mention if it is similar to a spell. Psionic grease is a good example, it has it written "this is just like the spell grease in the players handbook".
We finally came to a head after another player pointed out that being entangled is situational and that the DC are stated on the situation if it allows one. The DM, who is new at this, finally agreed with me and the player who called it situational. However I am curious to what others think of the power Entangling Ectoplasm.

[Thiyr]

No question, you're entirely right on this one. Power does what power says. (If the other person starts to complain that it's too good compared to entangle, remind them that it's not an area thing, needs an attack roll, and has a notable size limit. If they question why it works for one but not the other, point out that one is things grabbing you, while the other is something covering you. There's nothing to break or slip out of really, just goo that's causing you to be stuck.)

[Psyren]

Are you playing 3.5 or Pathfinder? The PF Entangling Ectoplasm does let the target break free.

[Necroticplague]

Why does the title of this thread say "opinion"? This is a fairly plain matter of a right and a wrong side. In this case, you're right. Spells, powers, maneuvers, ect. do exactly what their description says, not a single thing more or less. If it doesn't say you get to make a check to break out, you don't get it. Breaking off the entanglements is something specific to the Entangle spell (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Entangle), not the Entangled status condition (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Entangled). To further hammer this point in, their are some spells that use the Entangled condition to indicate being partially frozen. Does he think that you can break out of, or slip out of, that? Of course not.

[SiuiS]

I was playing a new game last night and upon the use of my first power, Entangling Ectoplasm, I was met with argument. Another player stated it was like the spell entangle. I of course argued it is not. The argument was that a creature can break out of my entangling ectoplasm with a DC strength check of 20, or an Escape Artist Check of 20. This is what the Entangling spell has in its description for how to break out of the magical entanglements of the plant growth of its spell. I argued that my Power does not allow for such checks, because it is not in the power description. The power states that they are entangled and the duration is 5 rounds. There is no save and power resistance does not apply. In no way does the power even mention the entangle spell. To further my argument I pointed out that other powers mention if it is similar to a spell. Psionic grease is a good example, it has it written "this is just like the spell grease in the players handbook".
We finally came to a head after another player pointed out that being entangled is situational and that the DC are stated on the situation if it allows one. The DM, who is new at this, finally agreed with me and the player who called it situational. However I am curious to what others think of the power Entangling Ectoplasm.


Why does the title of this thread say "opinion"? This is a fairly plain matter of a right and a wrong side. In this case, you're right. Spells, powers, maneuvers, ect. do exactly what their description says, not a single thing more or less. If it doesn't say you get to make a check to break out, you don't get it. Breaking off the entanglements is something specific to the Entangle spell (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Entangle), not the Entangled status condition (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Entangled). To further hammer this point in, their are some spells that use the Entangled condition to indicate being partially frozen. Does he think that you can break out of, or slip out of, that? Of course not.

To complicate matters,the D&D wiki is very unreliable and just last night the Entangled condition came up. The rules compendium lists escape from it with a strength check as a thing.

Or, wait, shoot. I don't know if it was the Druid who did it (usig entangle and complicating my point) or the other guy. And top of that, rules compendium isn't quite accepted.

[torrasque666]

To complicate matters,the D&D wiki is very unreliable and just last night the Entangled condition came up.
I seriously don't get why people keep saying this. Literally all you have to do is check and see if it has SRD in front of the page title. If it doesn't, DON'T USE IT! If it does, it is 99.999999% of the time taken verbatim from the SRD.


The rules compendium lists escape from it with a strength check as a thing. Or, wait, shoot. I don't know if it was the Druid who did it (usig entangle and complicating my point) or the other guy. And top of that, rules compendium isn't quite accepted.

Where are you seeing that? Because the statement for Entangled(the condition) says no such thing.

Entangled: An entangled creature is ensnared. Being
entangled impedes movement, but doesn’t entirely prevent it
unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered
by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half
speed, can’t run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls
and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. Casting a spell while entangled
requires a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level).


The escape artist section has this:

Entangling SpellEntangling spells include animate rope and entangle, among
others. A spell’s descriptive text always takes precedence over
the DC described here.

but doesn't mention strength anywhere. Were you referring to Escape Artist instead?

[Necroticplague]

To complicate matters,the D&D wiki is very unreliable and just last night the Entangled condition came up. The rules compendium lists escape from it with a strength check as a thing.

Or, wait, shoot. I don't know if it was the Druid who did it (usig entangle and complicating my point) or the other guy. And top of that, rules compendium isn't quite accepted.
If the dndwiki link isn't acceptable, how about the d20 srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm) and the Glossary (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_entangled&alpha=) link? That good enough?

[zarreff]

We are playing a 3.5 game, not Pathfinder.

Thanks guys. I didnt feel there was room for argument on the subject either...but i was more than willing to argue lol, it seemed like he believed that the entangle spell set some kind of precedence over how you can get out of any type of entangle condition.

Im hoping this argument doesnt come up again, its just lame that the very first power I get and use starts an argument.

btw Im playing a psychic rogue :)

[Divide by Zero]

Specific trumps general only in that specific case. Why would you need to reference a spell description for something that doesn't have anything to do with that spell? It doesn't even make sense.

[zarreff]

Specific trumps general only in that specific case. Why would you need to reference a spell description for something that doesn't have anything to do with that spell? It doesn't even make sense.

Im not sure why he wanted to reference the entangle spell, instead of just looking up the entangle status condition. I believe it came up because the DM wanted to know how the creature can break free and I told him it couldnt, the power has no DC listed to escape it. Then thats when the other player pulled up the entangle spell and started talking DC's lol. The DM was gonna rule that the creature can use escape artist or strength to escape it...but then I had to argue that the whole point of me choosing that power was because they cant get out of it (unless someone used the Dismiss Ectoplasm power) once it hits them, they have to suffer the condition till it dissipates. My psychic rogue has limited powers to choose from...why wouldnt I choose a powerful power?

Anyways the DM did rule in my favor instead, so it shouldnt be an issue anymore. I just wanted to post here and see what other people thought...because I swear last night I was made to look like an @ss for arguing, and yet I knew I was right.