3.5 Gestalt in Pathfinder.

[Xuldarinar]

A thought crossed my mind that I simply had to entertain.

Given that one difference between Pathfinder and 3.5 is generally the power of the classes involved, how would gestalt using 3.5 classes stack up against your standard pathfinder class? Would it be unreasonable (and/or unbalanced) to have such an option?

[Krazzman]

Currently DMing 2 such campaigns.

It has some problems depending on how good at optimisation your players are. But in General it makes your character more sturdy or simply having more tricks.

[Taveena]

A 3.5e Wizard//Factotum gestalt - a rather common choice - would absolutely blow every Pathfinder class, even the Arcanist, out of the water. Of course, on the other hand, a Samurai//Soulborn is going to feel mighty redundant next to even a bog-standard PF Fighter.

So, basically? It's impossible to generalize, but 3.5e has both a much higher optimization ceiling (as shown by the guy who attains absolute omnipotence at level 5) and a much lower floor (as shown by the class that has to minmax /hard/ and use optional rules JUST TO USE HIS ALREADY SUBPAR CLASS FEATURES.)

... (WHICH DON'T ACTUALLY WORK.)

[Xuldarinar]

Currently DMing 2 such campaigns.

It has some problems depending on how good at optimisation your players are. But in General it makes your character more sturdy or simply having more tricks.


A 3.5e Wizard//Factotum gestalt - a rather common choice - would absolutely blow every Pathfinder class, even the Arcanist, out of the water. Of course, on the other hand, a Samurai//Soulborn is going to feel mighty redundant next to even a bog-standard PF Fighter.

So, basically? It's impossible to generalize, but 3.5e has both a much higher optimization ceiling (as shown by the guy who attains absolute omnipotence at level 5) and a much lower floor (as shown by the class that has to minmax /hard/ and use optional rules JUST TO USE HIS ALREADY SUBPAR CLASS FEATURES.)

... (WHICH DON'T ACTUALLY WORK.)

It certainly would vary widely. Case by case basis would need to be considered, but in general baring use of certain classes and combinations or limiting based on tier would be a reasonable solution.


And yes, the truenamer sucks. I wish it worked, but it doesn't. Wordcasting (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/ultimateMagicWordsOfPower.html) works so much better. Then again the truenamer set the bar so low you might trip over it.

[Snowbluff]

Is that what they did? I thought they were installing a miniature sewer system.

[Hunter Noventa]

We played a high-powered gestalt campaign that combined both sets of rules. I was a 3.5 Swordsage gestalts with a PF Soulknife. it was pretty awesome. We had an Artificer//Bard who somehow built an entire sentai team of followers with robots, which was also awesome.

It's perfectly doable, you just gotta have players who know what they're doing and what you're getting yourself into.

[Psyren]

You have to define "standard Pathfinder class" - the tiers vary as wildly over there as they do in 3.5.

[grarrrg]

Given that one difference between Pathfinder and 3.5 is generally the power of the classes involved, how would gestalt using 3.5 classes stack up against your standard pathfinder class? Would it be unreasonable (and/or unbalanced) to have such an option?

Wait.
I think what you are asking is "What if I allow players to choose between playing a Gestalt 3.5 character, OR a perfectly normal NON-Gestalt PF Character?"
If that's the case then the answer is "horribrokenalltohell".

While PF classes are _generally_ considered _slightly_ better than their 3.5 equivalents (assuming we ignore the MASSIVE pile of 3.5 books/support), there is no way in heck that they are THAT much better that the 3.5's need Gestalt to catch up.

[Xuldarinar]

You have to define "standard Pathfinder class" - the tiers vary as wildly over there as they do in 3.5.

Granted. Even within the core rulebook the tiers can vary. Lets just go with what you'd reasonably expect to show up at the table.



Wait.
I think what you are asking is "What if I allow players to choose between playing a Gestalt 3.5 character, OR a perfectly normal NON-Gestalt PF Character?"
If that's the case then the answer is "horribrokenalltohell".

While PF classes are _generally_ considered _slightly_ better than their 3.5 equivalents (assuming we ignore the MASSIVE pile of 3.5 books/support), there is no way in heck that they are THAT much better that the 3.5's need Gestalt to catch up.

I know that its not massive, but I will leave you with this.

3.5 paladin vs pathfinder paladin.

[Psyren]

That depends heavily on what you gestalt the 3.5 Pally with - and even then, 3.5 can actually catch up with the right splats (e.g. Battle Blessing, Spell Compendium/BoED, Sword of the Arcane Order etc.)

[Snowbluff]

Yes and no. You gets moar dmg, but you lose out on a bunch of utility options (like earth glide, bardic music) and have a generally worse spell list. A 3.5 Paladin//3.5 Sorcerer would trash a PF Paladin 7 ways from heaven.

I think the main issue is the strength of the Gestalt option.

[grarrrg]

I know that its not massive, but I will leave you with this.

3.5 paladin vs pathfinder paladin.

Paladin should not be the stick you are measuring by.
Paladin arguably got the largest upgrade from 3.5 to PF (Rogue got a massive upgrade as well, but the support rules got a massive downgrade, so...).
As counter argument, I give you:
3.5 Druid > PF Druid
3.5 Cleric ~ PF Cleric
(again, ignoring the obscene amount of splat support 3.5 has)

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, cleric got a ton of splat in 3.5, but I agree that the class is similiar between the two versions if you ignore it.

[Xuldarinar]

Well then, what about narrowing things down? Restrict to classes that were not updated, or set a tier cap for it. No tier 1 or 2 classes, maybe bar tier 3 as well.

[Crimson Wolf]

Omg I have always wanted to run a game in pathfinder like this. Course one of my friends who plays thinks things like this are too overpowered to have fun with. Heck even if I could just be a player in a pathfinder gestalt I would love to.